Glock 23


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rmmoore
January 31, 2010, 11:29 AM
Hello fellow High Roader's. I have a question I'd like to get some opinions on. Before I pose the question, let me explain my dilemma. Back in the 90's, a buddy had a full-size (I think) Glock .45 that he loved. We went to the range, I tried it, and HATED it. I haven't touched one since then, just wasn't my "thing". I am a tried and true lover of the 1911. I've been toying around with the idea of a .40 S&W just because I don't have one. The other day at the local gun shop, one of the owners who I know handed me a new Glock 23. I resisted touching it like the plague frankly, but after "forcing" me to hold it, I discovered it melted into my hand like hot butter. Needless to say, I was SHOCKED :eek: The limited experience I had with Glock's before left me feeling less than impressed, but this one, WOW!!!!!

So, here is my question. Please, I don't want to hear debates on the merits of 9mm vs .40 vs .45, I know and have heard all that before. I own, or at least WILL own all of them after I purchase the .40 of my choice. I would like to hear from OWNERS and SHOOTERS specifically of the Glock 23 to hear what they like, dislike, and wish was different. Again, not to sound like an ass, but I don't need to hear what your buddy, family member, or guy at the range says. We all know how good and reliable 3rd hand information is. I want to hear what YOU think, based on YOUR experience, SPECIFICALLY with the Glock 23. I'm not interested in any of the other Glock's, at "this" time, and understand there have been several "generational" changes to Glocks over the years. The one I am looking at is a new one, so I assume it is the latest incarnation with finger grooves, mildly textured side panels, and a "useless" (to me) tac-rail.

Thank you for your time and input. I look forward to hearing both the pro's and con's, and we all know that EVERYTHING has good and bad, so no rosy pictures of the ultimate perfection, albeit some are closer than others. :neener:

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rcmodel
January 31, 2010, 11:41 AM
I have owned a Glock 23 for 15 years.

It is totally reliable.
It is near rust-proof.
It always works.
It is accurate enough for a combat gun.
It is small & light enough to go almost unnoticed when carrying it on a good belt holster.

I don't like it much.

The grip doesn't fit my hand because it is angled back like a German Luger or something.
It had no thumb safety, until I put one on it.
Its just a machine. It has no "charm" like a steel & walnut handgun.

As a died in the wool 1911 guy for about 50 years, the lack of a positive manual safety always made me nervous.

My son bought a Springfield XD a few months ago.
It fits my hand much better, and it at least has a grip safety to prevent you shooting yourself in the leg if the trigger snags on something while re-holstering.

However, thats just foolish old me worrying too much, as I'm sure about 150 people are going to say in a few minutes.

rc

Taurus 617 CCW
January 31, 2010, 12:05 PM
I own a Glock 19, the 9mm version of the 23. I find the frame size absoultely perfect for my hand. It points very naturally and I have never had a single issue with reliability. The only thing I changed on it is I installed Truglo Tritium Fiber Optic sights.

StarDust1
January 31, 2010, 12:34 PM
I have owned a Glock 23 for 15 years.

It is totally reliable.
It is near rust-proof.
It always works.
It is accurate enough for a combat gun.
It is small & light enough to go almost unnoticed when carrying it on a good belt holster.

I don't like it much.

The grip doesn't fit my hand because it is angled back like a German Luger or something.
It had no thumb safety, until I put one on it.
Its just a machine. It has no "charm" like a steel & walnut handgun.

As a died in the wool 1911 guy for about 50 years, the lack of a positive manual safety always made me nervous.

My son bought a Springfield XD a few months ago.
It fits my hand much better, and it at least has a grip safety to prevent you shooting yourself in the leg if the trigger snags on something while re-holstering.

However, thats just foolish old me worrying too much, as I'm sure about 150 people are going to say in a few minutes.

rc
I believe you should not carry a Glock if you "just have to have" a manual safety, the thing isn't even cocked unless you pull the trigger, the design is perfect, in that it allows for your trigger finger to ride naturally above the trigger guard on the very top of the frame, just below the slide, which is just where your "safety" belongs unless you intend to fire the thing!
The Glock is not a 1911, though in my experience, it's most ardent admirers usually happen to be 1911 die-hards!
Snagging of the trigger? On what? Glock and the NY-State Police developed an adaptation for those folks who felt they weren't comfortable with controlling the mechanism as it's intended to be controlled, which is to say by your finger being placed where it should, when it should, they were/are called the NY-1 & NY-2 trigger modules respectively, bringing the resistance of the trigger up from 5.5lb to 8.5 & 11.5 respectively....
How many snag-fires have you heard of with a DAO revolver?

Airburst
January 31, 2010, 12:47 PM
To the OP, that story could have been mine, except I went out and bought a G20 and ended up selling it a year later. The grip was too fat. About six months ago, I bought a new G23C. Carried it almost exclusively. But a funny thing happened along the way, every time I would take it to the range to practice, it would buffet my middle finger. The trigger guard was hitting it on every shot. No, I wasn't limp wristing it either. At that point, I decided I didn't like the recoil of the 40 in such a small frame. I sold it about a month ago. I have a G19 on the way. I now have a Steyr M40 as my main CCW. A tad bit heavier, much better grip, better sights and shoots just as good.

angel1216
January 31, 2010, 01:19 PM
it's my primary carry weapon during winter days here in texas! i'm 5'9" 170lbs. with a light jacket it disappears on my right hip. for me it's just the perfect size. not 2 big, not 2 small. with all the aftermarket accessories, you can have lots of fun with it. but might end up spending too much....... guilty!
also with the 23, you can buy a 9mm conversion barrel from lonewolf. it's like having 2 guns in one. great for range time.

Mags
January 31, 2010, 01:46 PM
Had a Glock 23 Gen 3, I couldn't hit crap with it and it would spotaneously fire more than one round off with one pull of the trigger. Got rid of the 23 and got a Glock 19 now that is a pretty accurate and smooth shooting mid size pistol for me.

possum
January 31, 2010, 02:09 PM
i own and regularly carry a glock 23. they are reliable, accurate, and easy to take care of. they are a great do all size. easy to carry concealed, as well be a good duty gun. they are small enough for carry, but big enough to be a good "fighting" handgun. the only complaint that i would have is with the factory plastic sights. i replace my handgun sights with xs 24/7 big dots and that is the end of that problem. mone has been through many thousands of rounds and 2 handgun courses and has never let me down.

9teenEleven
January 31, 2010, 02:12 PM
I recently bought a glock 23 rtf and an EFK 357 barrel. I have tried for years not to buy a glock. I never liked the way that the 22s point (also a 1911 guy). In the last year, I've bought the following looking for a carry gun: USP, FNP, PPK, P220. I sold them all, and I'm finally happy. The glock grip angle feels a little funny, but for some reason, I can just shoot the glock compacts and sub-compacts really well. None of those other guns worked for a 1911 thumbs forward grip, the glock does, which is also a HUGE plus for me. The 23 is the perfect balance of size and barrel length. They are simple, reliable, and there are a whole lot of aftermarket options and parts. Some people don't like the RTF, but I love it. The sharp feel wears of pretty quickly, and just becomes a very grippy grip.

Zerodefect
January 31, 2010, 02:35 PM
My Glock 23 is my best CCW.

Plus:
Just right size.
Good ammo capacity
accurate
tons of easy to install sight options
most reliable pistol I own
never rusts
point shoots very well
quick to draw/simple operation
quick follow up shots
fits a combat grip well
extremely easy to learn how to repair maintain and smith yourself.

minus:
needs a combat style grip to be comfortable, weaver not so good
trigger is gritty even with good mods and a fulcrum trigger kit
don't put anything on its rail
some older mags don't hold all thier rounds, order mags online not dusty store mags

stout recoil
trigger bite, trigger bite, more trigger bite


Get a zevtech comp spring kit (but don't change to a lighter striker spring), Ti striker safety, stainless steel recoil rod with stock recoil spring, and 3.0 connector and the gun really wakes up. And keep her well oiled, the dry glocks bit is complete bs.

bds
January 31, 2010, 02:38 PM
I have bought and shot many generations of Glocks including G21 and G23.

Like you, I do not like Glocks in 45ACP because of fatter/larger grip. However, they are accurate and functional.

The G23 on the other hand, shares the smaller grip standard to most Glocks and I enjoy shooting the G22/G23/G27 family in 40S&W. I like my 1911s and transitioning to a Glock grip does require some work, but after some practice most people find that they can shoot better under panic shooting drills than many other guns.

I found S&W M&P pistols offer more similar grip angle to 1911 with 3 size back straps. You might want to try them to see how you like the grip.

If you are looking for a Glock for carry, do look into G27. It has become my favorite carry gun in recent years (I have the pearce grip extension for full 3 finger grip) and it shoots very accurate with small carry print.

Oro
January 31, 2010, 04:11 PM
rcmodel's post is almost my story, though I didn't own it as long.

Very impressed with it as a "tool." I think many, many gun owners and agencies are well-served with Glocks. My 23 made me get rid of it for two reasons:

1) Grips shape. I was accurate shooting it, but it was not comfortable.
2) Size. The width was annoying to me, and in my opinion excessive for a .40 caliber.
3) The trigger was acceptable. But I'm a frequent double-action revolver shooter. When I want an auto, I want the mechanical energy of the slide to do the hard work for me. Without the heavy cylinder to revolver with your trigger stroke, there's just no reason for automatic pistol's actions to not be crisp.

I traded it towards a new model 1991 Colt Combat Commander and was exceedingly happy with that as a carry gun vs. the 23. But the 23 is an excellent gun for many people.

MikePGS
January 31, 2010, 04:22 PM
If a gun fits your hands comfortably thats as good as gold. I've fired quite a few Glock 19's but they never fit my hands especially well. Smith and Wessons M&P Series on the other hand feels as if it were made for my hands. If the Glock does the same for you thats pretty much all you need to know.

rcmodel
January 31, 2010, 04:24 PM
bringing the resistance of the trigger up from 5.5lb to 8.5 & 11.5 respectively....The stock 5.5 trigger is too heavy & mushy to start with.
No need for a NY connector to make it even worse.

It is NOT the same thing as a revolver trigger at all as it only has to move a fraction of an inch to fire.

Heres an interesting read on Glock trigger snagging.
http://www.thegunzone.com/mos/ad.html

rc

Full Metal Jacket
January 31, 2010, 04:32 PM
Glock 23 are more prone to limpwrist jams than the m&p40 as they havemore frame flex, as apposed to the m&p which has a reinforced steel chassy to solidify the frame. Glock 23's can also less than reliable when a tac light is attached, here's streamlight's research into the problem:

Some Glock® .40 caliber pistols, models 22 and 23, exhibit feeding malfunctions, either nose down or nose up (stovepipe), when used with tactical lights. The problems tend to occur with individual guns, with some pistols becoming totally unreliable while other identical, even close in serial number sequence, guns have no problems. Most models 22 and 23 are reliable.

A sensitive gun may malfunction with any tactical light - the TLRs, the older M models, and even Glock®’s own brand. There is evidence that the problem sometimes develops with use, and may progress until the pistol is unreliable even with no light attached.

On the basis of testing by Streamlight, we believe the problem is magazine related. It appears that the rounds are unable to rise fast enough for proper cycling. We have observed proper feeding for the first few rounds, consistent failures at mid-magazine capacity, and a return to proper feeding of the last few cartridges in the magazine.

We have tried both stronger and weaker recoil springs, and compound-action recoil buffers, all without success. Sometimes new magazine springs, either new Glock® or Wolff, will cure the problem. In one case of a pistol which was totally reliable when new but progressed to malfunctioning on every magazine, even with no light installed, we found two solutions which restored reliability, but which might not be acceptable to some users. The first was using 10 round capacity Glock® magazines. The gun will not cycle reliably with 15 round mags with their steeply stacked columns but works flawlessly with 10 round mags. The second solution was a new magazine follower from Brownells®, their part number 069-000-006. When used in a 15 round magazine with a new spring, reliability was restored. However, the follower would not lock the slide open after the last round.

Ammunition is also a factor with any weapon. Some brands and weights may be totally reliable while others jam repeatedly. Make sure your gun is thoroughly tested with your duty ammo.

Brownells® is a registered trademark of Brownells®, Inc.
Glock® is a registered trademark of GLOCK Gesellschaft mbH.


for 40cal polymer, i would go with M&P.

StarDust1
January 31, 2010, 05:05 PM
Glock 23 are more prone to limpwrist jams than the m&p40 as they havemore frame flex, as apposed to the m&p which has a reinforced steel chassy to solidify the frame. Glock 23's can also less than reliable when a tac light is attached, here's streamlight's research into the problem:




for 40cal polymer, i would go with M&P.
I've never seen this demonstrated in any Glock pistol, I have heard of it, but never seen or experienced such a phenomenon first hand, which leads me to believe it's rare, or the result of a defective spring.
I currently own 9 Glock pistols & have owned many, many more then that, the only malfunctions I've ever experienced were the result of underloaded ammunition(factory), though I have had a similar & recurring issue with the mini-Glocks(26/27/30SF)ejecting standard pressure ammunition directly back into the my face until the dual recoil springs had been effectively broken in!
Further, I've never even seen a Glock pistol bind up due to limp wristing the firearm, in fact I'd have to say that the Glock is among the most difficult pistols I've ever encountered to induce this in!

Chucky64
January 31, 2010, 06:20 PM
I have had the G23 for about 4 months now and overall
really like the pistol. I decided to use the pistol for IDPA
after putting the 3.5 pound trigger bar, Lone Wolf Distributors
Ultimate Trigger Stop and extended mag release. The
short 12 round mag would pinch the **** out of my
palms when i would attempt the quick reloads that IDPA
competition requires. The gun is short enough that my hands
protrudes below the bottom of the gun, hence the blood
blisters from tactical reloads. I had plenty of the 15 round
magazines so now I use the 12 round for the first magazine
and the 15 rounds thereafter to avoid future pinches
while seating the mag.

DoubleTapDrew
January 31, 2010, 11:28 PM
I owned a g19 and loved it and later got a g23 (same gun, different caliber). Both were accurate, totally reliable, durable, and fun to shoot. The 19 was stolen and I sold the 23mainly because it was my only .40 S&W which brings me to my dislikes:
Don't like the caliber. Too much muzzle flip in that particular gun (maybe other .40s are better). I can shoot both 9mm and .45acp faster.
Also if you are used to the 1911 you may need a little adjusting to get the gun to point naturally. Most european guns have a more raked pistol grip which can cause you to be pointing high initially. I carry a g26 so I'm used to it but when going back and forth between a 1911/Sprinfield XD and a Glock is a little different.

LoganDub8388
January 31, 2010, 11:36 PM
I have the big brother of the 23, the 22, Although I have shot both and can say i like the 22 WAY better for a few different reasons. For me atleast, the bigger grip on the 22 makes managing the snappy .40 WORLDS easier, especially if you have a simple hogue rubber slip on grip. The 23 for me, was too small for the caliber, and uncomfortable. My best friend has a 19 (basic same dimensions of 23) and it feels and shoots amazing FOR THE 9mm CALIBER. Put that same gun frame in a snappier caliber such as the .40 and it may not be as comfortable. Just saying. The only thing I think the 23 has over the 22 is concealability. No matter which one you chose, you'll be happy dont worry. Just get what feels better WHEN YOU SHOOT IT, not when your handling it in the gun shop. A pistol can feel like heaven in the shop and HELL out on the range. my 2 cents

1KPerDay
January 31, 2010, 11:47 PM
I like my 23C quite a bit. Always goes bang. Fits better than the "big" glocks like the 20/21. Very reliable, pretty accurate. Easy to detail strip with a simple punch tool.

Don't like: muzzle blast/concussion from .40, particularly shooting in very cold temps.
The grip is pretty slippery. I've finally ordered some Talon grips for it which should help. I also put the smooth trigger in and an extended mag release.

StarDust1
January 31, 2010, 11:59 PM
The stock 5.5 trigger is too heavy & mushy to start with.
No need for a NY connector to make it even worse.

It is NOT the same thing as a revolver trigger at all as it only has to move a fraction of an inch to fire.

Heres an interesting read on Glock trigger snagging.
http://www.thegunzone.com/mos/ad.html

rc
Funny, that short trigger reset is one of the more celebrated features of the Glock design...If the trigger is so lousy heavy for you, why the perceived need to add an extraneous safety device at all? Or are we back to worrying about snag firing the weapon in the heat of holstering it?
Perhaps you should just stick with the 1911....

Full Metal Jacket
February 1, 2010, 12:59 AM
ve never seen this demonstrated in any Glock pistol, I have heard of it, but never seen or experienced such a phenomenon first hand, which leads me to believe it's rare, or the result of a defective spring.

several police agencies have dropped the g22/23's because of this issue.

jibbs
February 1, 2010, 01:18 AM
My brother switched from a 23 to a 27 for concealibility. After shooting my 30, he is now going to sell his 27 and get one because the recoil is more manageable (as DoubleTapDrew eluded too) and he is more accurate with a .45, especially in IDPA double tap drills. I like 9mm too, but the 40 is too snappy for my liking.

bds
February 1, 2010, 01:33 AM
After shooting my 30, he is now going to sell his 27 and get one because the recoil is more manageable

G30 recoil more manageable than G27??? :eek:

Perhaps it's because he's shooting with factory 2 finger grip on the G27 vs 3 finger grip on the G30. I have both and G27 recoils less than G30.

If he gets pearce grip extension for his G27, he may realize G27 actually recoils less than G30 - both are accurate.

george d dennis
February 1, 2010, 09:23 AM
im not going to go into details. but i have a glock 23 and love it.

StarDust1
February 1, 2010, 10:56 AM
delete

herkyguy
February 1, 2010, 11:07 AM
Always goes bang. I have a tendency to trip the slide lock with my thumb but this is easily recognized and quickly corrected. Twice in over 2000 rounds, it has failed to load with the slide partially locked. Re-racking quickly solves this problem. I have shot 2000+ rounds through my G23. It is a great gun, i don't see myself getting rid of it. Simple to clean, simple to operate, solid, and, at least for me, I can keep a 6" group at 10 yards standing unsupported with a full magazine. Oh, it doesn't show much wear and tear either. This is the gun i trust for home defense.

1KPerDay
February 1, 2010, 12:09 PM
G30 recoil more manageable than G27??? :eek:

Perhaps it's because he's shooting with factory 2 finger grip on the G27 vs 3 finger grip on the G30. I have both and G27 recoils less than G30.

If he gets pearce grip extension for his G27, he may realize G27 actually recoils less than G30 - both are accurate.
I prefer shooting the 30 over the 27. The 30 may have MORE recoil but the recoil seems slower/less snappy to me.

HOV
February 1, 2010, 12:49 PM
The 23 can be four calibers:

.40 S&W stock
.357 Sig with a simple drop-in stock Glock 32 barrel, no other changes needed
9mm w/Lone Wolf or other brand conversion barrel and a 9mm magazine
.22LR with a .22LR conversion upper and magazine

Of those four, two are suitable for carry: .40 S&W and .357 Sig. 9mm in this gun is on the fringe for carry reliability, depending on how many other parts you switch over to 9mm, and how your particular gun behaves with the setup. But it's nice to have the option of the other calibers for fun or practice.

Ergonomically, I've found that Glocks in general aren't that great for me due to the finger grooves and invasive trigger guard. But still 2/3 of my carry pistols are Glocks. Instead of chopping the guns, I simply handled them a LOT. Every evening I'd just handle my various Glock pistols until the feel became very familiar. I got a little callous on my middle finger knuckle from the trigger guard, now it doesn't bother me.

I shoot them well, and I love the simplicity in design, the reliability, and the capacity.

Overall, if I had to make a hard choice between the Glock 26 and the Glock 23, I'd probably go for the 26. I like shooting 9mm better than .40, and the G26 handles like a sports car. Very easy to point, change directions, etc. It is more concealable in stock form but can have equal concealability and higher capacity if you use mags from the Glock 19.

The tapered slide of the G26 is also very nice, it breaks up the boxiness of the Glock uppers.

I think the Glock platform excels at delivering 9mm bullets to the target, and 9mm is a really good round. But the G23 is a powerful pistol, versatile, and there's nothing to dislike about it either. So many good choices.

tincanhunter
February 1, 2010, 10:32 PM
I had a G23.

Likes:
1) It was reasonably accurate.
2) Easy to work on, parts are cheap.

Dislikes:
1) Trigger bite from hell.
2) Trigger guard would beat my middle finger numb after about 15 rounds.
3) Stovepipe-o-matic. The pistol would stovepipe every other mag regardless of ammo. I've read that this is common with the G23's when not super locking your wrists. That being said my 1911's, P229 40S&W, P6, H&K USP Compact(s) 45&357 Sig, FNP40, Kahr CW45 never stovepiped with good factory ammo. Had a few stovepipes with lite reloads. To me this is a known problem and design issue with the G23's.

KBintheSLC
February 2, 2010, 02:46 PM
My good friend has carried a G23 every day for the past 6 years. He loves it. I get to shoot it pretty regularly when we go practice. Its pretty much a run of the mill Glock; accurate, reliable, affordable, and simple. I own 3 myself; models 20, 26, 34 and love em all. If you like the grip, which is a major point of contention for many people, you will love the Glock.

md7
February 2, 2010, 03:06 PM
rmmoore,

the glock 23 was my first serious defense pistol, and bought it for the main reason that it was reliable, durable and versatile. it is my winter ccw, my constant "truck gun", and served as my primary HD when it was the only pistol that i owned. it has been 100% reliable, and would buy it again in a heartbeat.

pros:
small enough to conceal
big enough to carry as a duty weapon
light
plenty of capacity, especially for its size
reliable and reasonably accurate

cons:
i have nothing to add here.

Enachos
February 2, 2010, 03:53 PM
+1 md7!!!

My opinion goes the same way! I have own a Glock 27 but have also had experience with the model 23 and I would definitely recommend you get one! I've NEVER had a single malfunction of any type and the thing is accurate. I love it and I couldn't say anything bad about it. I'm actually scared to venture outside of Glock! As a matter of fact, I just convinced my buddy to buy himself a Glock 23! He loves the feel and the recoil really isn't as bad as people say it is. The Glock 27 is the first gun I've bought and I got used to the recoil of a 40S&W very quickly! GO GET ONE!

MisterMike
February 2, 2010, 04:38 PM
I have a G23 and it's been 100% reliable. You'll find it "snappy," compared to it's 9mm brother, the G19, but it's as accurate as my meager marksmanship skills will permit. The only other thing of note is that for my usual method of carry (IWB at 4 o'clock), the G23 is less comfy than my G26.

If it's comfortable for you to shoot and carry, I'd absolutely recommend it. After all, it's "perfection." :evil:

Doogledog
February 2, 2010, 05:24 PM
I have a 23C and really like it. I've also got a couple of 1911's and really like them too. Both the 1911's and the Glock point as well as any other guns I own. I personally have never felt a serious difference in the "pointability" of the two. I mainly carry the 23 because of its size and weight. It is very comfortable and packs plenty of punch if I need the power. I also don't get the "snappy" complaints either. Recoil has just never been a problem for me. I never get the dreaded trigger bite either. I guess it just fits me better than it does some people. Get one you won't regret it.

2ndamd
February 3, 2010, 11:46 AM
Pros:
Parts are available
Easy to work on
combat accurate
Hides like a snubnose but fights like a service sized gun
Light
Powerful
Reliable
Tough finish

Cons:
No second strike capability
grip is a bit blocky
Trigger guard rubs the middle finger raw
no manual safety for reholstering; I still do not carry one in the pipe with any Glock. With a traditional DA/SA gun I can ride the hammer with my thumb when reholstering. But, striker fired guns have an internal hammer (so to speak but, not really). There is no way to feel if something snags the trigger.

Thanks to the poster that posted those stories about the drawstring from a jacket getting stuck in the trigger guard with the Glock and causing an AD. That is cause for alarm. Glad I do not keep one in the pipe.

Ben86
February 3, 2010, 03:26 PM
I do not own one but have shot my father's on several occasions and own a glock 19 of my own. I can tell you that the recoil is quite brisk, but nothing uncontrollable. The grip is not the most comfortable, but still comfortable enough. Were the G23, and G19 really shine is in dependability and ease of maintainence. I have owned several glocks of several calibers and have never even had one malfunction. The same cannot be said for many other brands I've owned. If you need a replacement part you can even call up Glock yourself and they will give it to you free. I've dropped some of my glocks on hard tile floor more than I like to remember and they have no damage. They also have great triggers for a DAO. The mid sized glock is the best all around size. I think you would be well served by a Glock 23.

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