[Dimis]

after seeing the reviews on the new savage 220F 20Ga slug shotgun ive gotten a few questions built up in my head

how accurate can you get a dedicated slug shotgun?

why the 20 and not a 12?

i know that savage used to make the 210F slug warrior and mossberg had a bolt gun too so im sure there are others out there

can the accutrigger be put in a 210F?

i would much rather have a 12 because ammo around here is so scarce i havnt seen a 20Ga slug let alone a sabbot in a while

i guess what im getting at is who makes the best dedicated slug gun what ammo and what scope/mount/rings would you use to sqeeze all that can be had in accuracy

[jmortimer]

There are a number of guns/ammunition combos that can deliver 1" to 2" moa at 100 yards with a rifled barrel. An H&R Ultra bull barrel can do it and so can many others. The Savage should do it as well.

[Sir Aardvark]

As for ammo - the saboted-slugs out of rifled barrels are what consistently give the best accuracy in the few tests I have seen. IIRC, American Rifleman magazine had a fairly recent test that showed very tight groupings at 200 yards with sabots.

[Sam1911]

Some interesting information here:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=399789

And some here, though they're taking things in a slightly different direction: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=178655

-Sam

[earlthegoat2]

Im thinking that is what the boys down at Tar-Hunt are doing.

[tango2echo]

My Uncle has a Tar-Hunt 12ga Slug gun that will shoot 1" to 1.25" all day at 100yards. Abit pricey though, from what I recall.

t2e

[Offfhand]

About a year or two back there was a comprehensive test of slug accuracy in Outdoor Life magazine. Best testing I've ever read. They used Tar-Hunt guns to test different loads.

[ImARugerFan]

About a year or two back there was a comprehensive test of slug accuracy in Outdoor Life magazine. Best testing I've ever read. They used Tar-Hunt guns to test different loads.

As I understand though, depending on the rate of twist in your barrel, either a fast (hornady) or slow (lightfield) slug will perform far better than the other. I can't remember which is which. Taking their recommendations and running with it might not help much unless you have a similar barrel.

[FuzzyBunny]

Just wondering?

Is it legal to make a shotgun slug out of metals like. Let me put it another way. Is it legal to make a slug out of anything you want? Not for hunting just in general? Like solid zinc or a steel sabot?

[Justin]

Federal regulations prohibit making ammunition that can be construed as "armor piercing."

[27hand]

Here is a 100 yd target using Lightfield sabots on the left and Remington all copper sabots on the right.
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l103/poofy27/Targets%20and%20steel%20pics/100_0235.jpg

I shot this target using an Ithaca Deerslayer with a 20" rifled barrel. The SG has a cheap Simmons 3X9 scope.

What I thought was interesting is that the all copper sabots are 1 oz and the Lightfields are 1 1/4 oz with little difference in elevation.

I bought this SG about 20 years ago when the county I live in stopped allowing rifles and became SG only.

I started with normal rifled slugs which really crapped in the rifled bbl of the Ithaca. I found BRI (Ballistic Research Industries) sabots which grouped very well at 100. Winchester bought BRI and I used them for years. A friend of mine was using Rem all copper sabots and I tried them out. I shot a 2" group and have been using them ever since. I bought about 6 boxes of the Lightfields to see how they flew and got a few groups just over an inch.

Since I still have about 10 or 12 boxes of the copper sabots, I'll use thes over the next few years.


My 2 cents.

27hand

[nitetrane98]

Qualification time came on my day off once so I showed up at the range deciding to use one of the academy's 12 ga Remington 870s. After the pistol phase I went and grabbed one out of the rack and put my 3 00 bucks into the target at 15 yds and then moved back to the 25 yd line for slugs. The first round literally made the X disappear, I'm not that good but I'd rather be lucky than good. 2nd round overlaps the first by about 1/2 diameter. Dang, did I do that? 3rd round makes a cloverleaf. Unbelievable to me. I beg the range officer to trade me the old 870 for nearly brand new one that I had. No dice. These weren't fancy saboted slugs either, just plain old Winchester punkinballs.
Said all that to say this, either that was three incredibly lucky shots or yes indeed a highly accurate slug gun can be made.

[Labyrinth666]

Shotguns are close range weapons, if you want accuracy, buy a rifle.

[27hand]

"Shotguns are close range weapons, if you want accuracy, buy a rifle. "


Some areas disallow rifles for hunting. I would want the most accurate SG I could afford.
I would trust mine out to about 150 YDS although 95 paces is the longest kill shot I have made to date. That is about the longest rifle shot I have made as well.

[Sam1911]

Shotguns are close range weapons, if you want accuracy, buy a rifle.

Shotguns are close range weapons ... that sometimes can print 2" or better groups at 100 yds, using the right combination of equipment, ammunition, understanding, and shooter skill.

Sometimes you have to wonder why some posters even log in? Did he mean to say shotguns can't be accurate? Seems like 2 MOA accuracy is plenty for the task at hand, in that it would give a practiced shooter the ability to make a clean kill at better than 200 yds, even accounting for trajectory, so that probably wasn't it.

Did he mean to say that rifles are sometimes capable of better accuracy than 2 MOA? Seems like everyone here would have realized that from the outset -- in fact, if that very fact was not indubitably understood by all, the thread would have made no sense whatsoever.

Did he mean to say that his personal standards are so high that a 2 MOA firearm is not what he would consider "accurate?" Hey, that's just SUPER. But, again, if the ability of some folks to shoot RIFLES more accurately than this was even in question, the thread would have had no raison d'etre.

It is a quandary, no? Whatever did he mean to contribute by this statement? Guess we'll never know...

:rolleyes:
-Sam

[Dimis]

thanks guys and yes i live in one of those states that does not allow rifle hunting it seems that Delaware is too flat to shoot long

im an accuracy addict anyway even with other arms but i would love to find (or have built) a nice accurate bolt action 12 gauge kind of like the savage 210F slug warrior

basicly as close to a bolt rifle as a shotgun can become

the gun i have in mind is obviously the savage but what scope/mount/rings should i try and use?

and who makes the better accurate end of sabot slugs these days?

[Sam1911]

and who makes the better accurate end of sabot slugs these days?

Everything I've read on the matter says you just buy a couple of boxes of each and find out what your gun likes. When you hit on that special combination, buy up all you can find!

You can load your own if you're so inclined. I don't know much about that, but the threads I listed above cover a WHOLE lot of info on such things.

-Sam

[27hand]

Dimis,

How far do you expect to shoot? In what kind of cover are you shooting?

In western Pa, we have a pretty hilly terrain with very thick cover. I chose the 20" bbl just for that reason.

I was quite surprised by how accurate the 2 sabots I use are and have really not tried too many others nor do I know what else is available.

I also chose the pump action because my deer rifle is also a pumpaction and the transition is smooth. I hunt rifle on some days ( out of county) and SG others.

I am happy with the results posted on my target pic.

Good luck in your choice.

27hand


Edit. What Sam says is correct. Some guns seem to shoot certain ammo better.

[Marty183]

The Ithaca Deerslayer III seems like an interesting slug gun...If I was in the market, that might be the one I would be looking in to. It is pricey though...I am totally happy with my H&R Ultra Slugger Deluxe in 12GA right now though.

[paducahrider]

The assumption that a smooth bore cannot, inherently, produce high accuracy is just that; an assumption, and an incorrect one to boot.
I would refer those sceptics to operating examples of some of VERY accurate smoothbore weapons in every day operation on the M-1 and later, Abrahms tanks.
Using discarding sabot, fin stabilized, depeted uranium penetrators in a smooth bore gun tube, this combination will take off a man's head, sticking out of a tank turret, from over a mile away, even while moving, if called upon to do so.
Under better conditions, even that result can be improved.
One reason for using the smoothbore tube, was to get less spread and more penetration from shaped charge rounds, but when the depleted uranium sabot round was perfected, there was less need for a shaped charge. It will penetrate completely through BOTH SIDES of late model Soviet tank turrets, and leave nothing but shredded metal confetti in its wake
Admittedly, this is an extreme example, but there are no fundamental reasons that similar performance could not be reproduced from a well-engineered but scaled-down, shouldered weapon.
This big gun is also used as a true "SHOTgun", with the appropriate ammunition, and being on the wrong end of that situation would ruin your day,,forever.
It would make one radical skeet gun though,,,,,,,,PULL!!!!
Thanks for your time.

[Dimis]

im looking at 100Yd + shots in medium to light cover

does anyone know if you can change the Savage 210s trigger to an accutrigger?