[Humble Texan]

Since Glock is strictly "autoloader" I guess this should be posted here. Move it if this is not the correct forum.

Always reading about potential, future purchases. Always have admired Glock for it durability and dependability.

Have noticed some real problems with Glocks lately. Checking out Glocktalk.com you can find numerous, serious issues. Do a search for "broke" and spend an hour or so.

Is the Glock of yesteryear gone? Broken rails? Kb experiences beyond what I had imagined(check the poll)? Poor CS? FTF etc.

I stayed away from Glock because I prefer a manual safety. I train with a manual safety and that is what I like. But I have considered one for home defense, not ccw.

I think I will wait. Some Glocksters are really getting irritated with the company and their products.

http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=128657

What say you?

[Lone_Gunman]

You get a skewed view of Glocks on some of the forums, including Glock Talk.

Lots of people (including myself) only seem to post there if they are having specific problems and want advice.

Like all other man made things, Glocks can have problems too.

[Snowshoe]

I have owned several and wound up selling them for one reason or another.

All of the ones I have had worked. I just can't seem to get used to the "spongy" trigger.

As was posted earlier, it is man made and sometimes things get through Q.C. that shouldn't.

I had a G30 that came under the frame rail "update". After learning of the long wait times from Glock, I swapped it for a
GP-100.

I think Glock is begining to believe thier own advertising.

--------
Snowshoe

[DeltaElite]

Really not many people reporting problems.
Glocks still have the best track record for reliability and longevity of any gun out there. Including my beloved 1911's.

Someone was whining about the plastic sights.
Well duhhhhhhh, they have always had them, so put some night sights on it and hush. :D

[Stephen Ewing]

Speaking as a card-carrying Glock hater, who will never own one:

Sig frames crack; avoid Sig.
CZ extractors stick; avoid CZ.
Berettas break lugs and send slides flying into your face; avoid Beretta.
Glocks explode; avoid Glocks.
Colts all need gunsmithing to work; avoid Colt.

See the trend? Glock may turn out, say, 6 bad guns every 100,000, and 4 of them have the same problem, so a trend gets noticed. They're not alone, nor are they perfect. If you want one, go for it with no reservations about quality, safety, or reliability, as they are clearly on the short list for any of those qualities. I'd suggest that the only reasons to avoid them are the ones I'm going with: Subjective ones, like poor ergonomics, etc.

Steve

[Humble Texan]

Really not many people reporting problems

Someone was whining about the plastic sights.


Sorry DeltaElite but it is not just sight problems. I would have never posted over some plastic sights.


http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=128129&highlight=broke

[Ted Bell]

I have 3000+ rounds through a refurb G19 -- not one problem. Ugly as sin? Yes. But if the SHTF the Glock's coming out of the safe before my P7M8.

[SouthpawShootr]

OK, fine there is no shortage of posts concerning Glock's most recent problem. However, if you examine these posts, you see a whole lot of whining, but very few instances where the frame rails have actually broken. Posts on serial number ranges abound. So much so that the board administrator has confined all posts concerning serial number ranges to just a few threads. A whole lot of people are hopping mad because their guns are within the affected ranges and Glock is putting LE contracts first. In practically all the posts that I've read on the subject, complaints have centered around getting affected frames replaced even though the guns appear to be functioning just fine. I've read some instances where owners were told that if there is a problem, it will manifest itself in the first 400 or so round (I don't know if it's true or not). Now, I don't own any Glocks in these serial number ranges, all mine are either very old or very new. Go ahead and get one. Shoot the crap out of it and if you have a problem, return it to Glock. I suspect you won't have any problems. If it makes you feel any better, go shopping armed with lists of serial numbers not to get. OK, that's what I have to say about the "non-recall."

As far as the other issues, they're not real issues to me. I've always tossed the sights on new Glocks in favor of Meps (I pick them up better than the factory sights), although if Meps aren't available the factory plastic works just fine. Pre-ban followers, I don't know anything about them being discontinued, but I suspect the LE followers would do just fine and should be legal (the mag body is regulated, not the internals and you are NOT increasing the capacity of the magazine). Fingergrooves? No, I don't like them and they don't fit me perfectly, but fingergrooves are in fashion now just like checkering on the front and backstraps. You just have to live with it or go with something else if you find it intolerable.

LEO discounts? Both my dealer and a LEO tell me that the LE price for Glocks are $434 (this will vary from dealer to dealer is a private sale, BTW). My price from the same dealer? $454. Hell, I'm not going to argue over $20. Now, if you are talking about an agency, then yes, they give one heck of a deal. A local PD was getting Berettas for under $300, so Glock would have to compete with that or lose the contract. You either sell several hundred to several thousand guns for less profit or you don't sell any. What's your choice? Everything I've seen about the fabled Glock 37 has been heresay.

[DeltaElite]

Sorry Humble,
I don't take much stock from a thread about weapons problems.
People love to find reasons to whine about a particular gun and/or their customer service.
Sure some frames have had problems, but every gun has problems. My Delta's have had frame problems, not mine but the ilk.

There are legitimate problems with some Glocks, but in that same thread you had people whining about magazine followers, plastic sights and other minor issues.
We are currently running 1000+ officers through training with G22's and having no problems.
I have carried the same Glock for 12 years, without a single malfunction, so I don't really care what the complaints are at Glock Talk.
I have four Glocks, G17, 20, 27 and 29. At least 20,000 rounds through them combined with no malfunctions in any of them.

Sorry if I offended you, but I just don't put much stock in the complaints on the internet about specific weapons, even if the website is geared to praise them.

[SouthpawShootr]

I'll become concerned when I read about problems over the internet, but it will likely not affect my purchase. I'll likely run out and try to induce the malfunction I read about. My first centerfire auto was a Colt .45 Government Model. Made in the early 80s, when everybody was complaining about Colts only being reliable with ball ammo. I bought one anyway. Well, I've shot over 8000 rounds through this gun (most ball ammo, but also several hundred rounds of CCI-Speer 200 grain "flying ashtrays") without a single hiccup. And this was with factory magazines.

[Humble Texan]

Hey, DeltaElite, you didn't offend me in the least.

Glad you have had such good experiences with Glock. The whole idea of the post was to get a perspective from Glock of the 80's to Glock of '03.

Thanks for the comments.

[DeltaElite]

Well good Humble. :D
I don't mean to be a butthead, but it just happens sometimes. :(

[10-Ring]

Funny, even after selling off 4 diff't Glocks, blowing up a 21 and this PR nightmare re: the frame rails, I still couldn't stay away. Somehow, I just had to have a Glock in the collection.
But I guess I'm more of a closet Glock fan :banghead:

[Blackhawk]

What's happening with Glock?? Easy. Glock is taking over the world. What did you THINK the Dark Side is all about...? :D

[Blueduck]

I resemble the referenced thread- I started it...

If you'll note there is actually no bashing of the weapon itself or a suggestion of a decline in quality of the gun. My complaints were all directed at the companies relations with it's consumers on numerous issues (well except the 19 cent front sight on a $500 gun, sorry for whining Delta ;) )

More and more I feel sorta like Mike Irwin, a guy who likes the guns but hates the company who now makes them.

PS, you also see in the thread why you need a little thicker skin to mess around GT than here;)

[Humble Texan]

Blueduck got me thinking but I didn't even want to continue the query on GT. Get a lot of "darkside" BS and other silliness.

Sometimes I wish all these gun boards would have a "For Adults Only" section.

Interesting how the threads morph. This is not about Glock bashing so please, no need to be defensive.

The question still remains; Is the product produced today equal in quality to the earlier versions? and, Has the customer service gone south, so to speak?

[Blueduck]

Well you may have heard all you wish from Blueduck ;) but I'll chime in with MHO in better detail on your very different questions.

Is the product produced today equal in quality to the earlier versions? I don't think quality has dropped. When you hear a guns going downhill it's usually because of one or two things. Cost cutting by less handfitting or just not keeping tolerences as tight as they once did. The Glock design is such that these two factors are basically a moot point, not an issue. It's not held to tight tolerences, never was, doesn't need to be. Second thing that happens is you see a lot of new and "cheaper" parts being used (MIM, plastic in high stress area's etc..) To my knowledge Glock has not made any signifficant part changes recently. I see nothing to suggest the frame rail deal was more than a fluke. I think it's still a great gun and still one of the very best shots at buying a gun "off the rack" that works every time.

Has the customer service gone south, so to speak? Whole different story. Customer service used to be fantastic (from experience). Current customer service seems to draw A LOT of complaints on a lot of fronts. I'd bet if you survey enough post you'll definitly see a decline. Has it become worse than Sig or HK, which have genereally been considered "cold" from day one:confused: don't know...

[DeltaElite]

Blueduck,
Who me? hehe Sorry, I was being a grump.
Honestly, I have never had to use Glock customer service, I have never had any problems. I too prefer metal sights, I put night sights on my Glocks.

Humble,
You want "Adults" on the internet? hehe I hope to have adults as co-workers someday, but I aint gonna hold my breath.

Due to how Glocks are made, pretty much by computer, I don't see how quality can change all that much.
Get one, you will be pleased, but don't expect it to be like a Colt Gold Cup, because it aint. It is a Glock and that means it is a good reliable weapon.

[boing]

"Due to how Glocks are made, pretty much by computer, I don't see how quality can change all that much."

I know what you mean, but...Garbage In, Garbage Out. ;)

I work with precision-machined components that roll off a state-of-the-art, 7 million dollar, 100% robotic CNC machining cell. It's a wonder to behold. But I still have to break out the file, sand paper, and hammer (my favorite) on occasion to get things to work "as designed". Not officially part of the production process, but still a reality of life for maintaining quality and functionality.

CNC ain't all it's cracked up to be (by some people). A machine is only as good as it's operator.

I have no opinion on Glock's current QC or CS trends.

[Michigun]

I just had my local FFL shop put a so-called "affected" G34 in the back for me until I can get the correct paper work around.

I guarantee it'll be fine weapon. ;)

[rearview]

Stephen Ewing: I am new here too, and you are a few posts my senior.

Regarding your detailed "broken down" list, I wonder which manufacturer you go with?

RE: Glocks, I used to own the #21 and #22 (9mm and 40sw). Sold them both, hated 'em. BUT, my gunsmith raved about them and said 200,000 rounds are possible thru 'em. Lots of folks LOVE Glocks. I really don't know why. Lack of real safety locks and square barrel shape turned me off completely. Shoots OK tho but, here out on the range no one has one.

Re: Beretta comments: I take somewhat a different look at these guns than you do. I chose to go with M-9 military version 15 shot/clip and the Border Marshall 40 cal. Both are proven military weapons and absolutely love the grips, safetys, and heavy feel when rapid firing at MOVING targets. The BM comes with night sights-helps in the moon light; and the beefed up slide has very manageable aim with little uptick! BTW the 40 cal Border Marshall is not available to the public.

So long, see you on the range!

[Michigun]

What's a "clip" doing on/in your gun rearview? Is that an aftermarket thing of some sorts? :neener:

[rearview]

Got me. I call 'em clips because in my household when I ask for a "Magazine" that is usually what I get. Most often I am given Cabellos. LOL.

You bet I won't make that mistake again here on the range.

[denfoote]

Not wishing to whine or anything, but my beloved G36 has had jamming problems lately. Methinks, however, that they are caused by my own aftermarket zeal. I installed an extended slide stop lever and have had nothing but trouble ever since. First, it was to long and had to be custom fitted to the gun. Now, I think I'm hitting it when I fire the gun!! I'm just gunna go to Glockmeister and get the stock part again!! If the problem continues, then you'll hear me whine!!

My G29, however, comes from the first batch ever made. It works fine, so there might be something to this QC argument!!

[Michigun]

Although I found your 1st "post" in this "tread" a bit "brow raising" rearview... I'm glad you took my "poking" at you as it was intended, in good heart that is. :D

[rearview]

I was clear about your intent when I saw the smile face going "nah, nah, nah". Very appropriate and quite correct.

The brow raising thing? Care to elaborate? If not, A-OK.

[Michigun]

I'm a GLOCK guy, & you are obviously not... that's really all it takes to get my attention! :)

[Stephen Ewing]

Rearview, not actually knocking any of those guns, just running down the internet legends/blown out of proportion/whatever. My point is that you can't be paralyzed by either the idiots knocking good guns, or the unlucky few good people stiffed by an otherwise excellent manufacturer. While my degree of affection varies considerably, I implicitly trust any of the guns I mentioned with my life.

Well, maybe the Colt needs a trip to the gunsmith first..:D

Steve

[jimmy]

I have four Glocks in the general serial number range of the frame rail breakage recall--oops, I mean advisory. I called Glock and found out that only one is affected. I boxed it up and shipped it to Smyrna for a replacement frame.

That, to me, will take care of the matter. AFAIK the rest of my Glocks are fine. In fact, the Glock I returned would probably have been fine, too, but I bought it as a carry gun and didn't want to run the risk of an untimely problem.

In sum, I haven't lost confidence in the concept or overall quality of Glock pistols. :cool:

My $0.02.

[txgolfer45]

Buy one! You will like it!:D

[cheygriz]

I have four Glocks. I love them.

During my 15 years as a police firearms instructor, I never saw any other officer have a problem with them.

[tomkatz]

I've owned a 17 since 1990, bought a new 19 in 96, and a 26 a year ago and they all work the same, perfect....tom

[Nero Steptoe]

"Both my dealer and a LEO tell me that the LE price for Glocks are $434..."


Chief of our local p.d. told me no later than yesterday afternoon that their price for a new G22 is $348.

[SouthpawShootr]

Chief of our local p.d. told me no later than yesterday afternoon that their price for a new G22 is $348.

As I indicated in my post, the price was for an individual purchase by a sworn LEO. I acknowledged that direct purchase by the dept. results in a very steep discount (I'll bet that the discount depends on the size of the dept.).

[six 4 sure]

FWIW one of my best friends is a State Trooper in Illinois. His duty pistol is a Glock. He is also the rangemaster in his district so he sees and deal with Glock's on a regular basis. He was actually involved in the testing when ISP swithched from the S&W 9mm (39?) to Glock .40S&W. He has nothing but good things to say about Glock. You should hear his stories about shooting against FBI HRT and their "$1500 1911's".

When I asked him what to use for CCW, he said "buy a Glock, no you really should buy two". I mentioned my Sig 225 and my P7M8. His reply was "those are nice, but I'd still get a Glock". I was pretty surprised to hear this from a revolver guy that used to hate semi-auto's.

Six

[Poohgyrr]

I've had my G23 since '91. The black parkerizing on top of the tenifer is wearing thin and could be redone. This pistol is comforting, and just keeps shooting without problem. I've since picked up a 24 & 27. These pistols are so practical, easy to maintain, easy to clean & inspect, and reliable that I can't argue against them. I even forget how ugly they are. I don't know why, but they just flat out work.

The only changes to any of these are Trijicon night sights and the 8 lb trigger spring.

[Gary G23]

I used to be a Glock fanatic (I currently own ten of them), but I WON'T be buying any more. It's not because they had a problem, it's how they handled the situation.

[Nero Steptoe]

"(I'll bet that the discount depends on the size of the dept.)."

I'm sure that's right. Ours is a very small dept., so better prices are probably had by large agencies.

[Michigun]

“It's not because they had a problem, it's how they handled the situation.”

At least GLOCK has/is doing something about it… most manufactures wouldn’t have… I’d be willing to bet that most, if not all gun manufactures, would LOVE to have GLOCK’s “failure rate %”! I’m betting it’s a lot better then what they consider an “acceptable figure”…

I think GLOCK holds them selves to a higher standard then most if not all.

[Schuey2002]

I own both HK and Glock handguns..

Whenever there is a "bump in the night", I always reach for one of my Glock 19's.. I've never had a problem with any of my Glocks and don't forsee having any in the future.

This coming from an absolutely "All things H&K" fanatic..;)

[Wildalaska]

Got a letter yesterday from Glock indicating that the frames were to be replaced on 6 357 SIG hanguns shipped to us (out of 20 I beleieve). 4 of them were still in stock, one had been sold at retail to a customer, one to anotther dealer (we are distibutors)..

I told the other delaer and he contacted my his customer. My customer said "ill worry about it when in breaks" and on the other ones, Glock gave me a ship # and promised to have them back in three days..

I have no quarrel with the way Glock has handled this...

I also note to you that so far in the past year I have had a Blaser recall, and a Winchester 70 recall. Never saw much internet hub bub about those..

You can love Glocks or not..they are just a tool like any other gun..there are some better...but there are lots worse...

WildglockhasgoodcustomerserviceAlaska

[jc2]

Six out of twenty--40%? That's a lot higher rate than Glock been publishing.

[JohnKSa]

Six out of twenty--40%? That's a lot higher rate than Glock been publishing.
Read the post again.

Glock contacted one of their dealers and notified them that they needed to send back some of the new guns that Glock had shipped them for frame replacement.

It happened that 6 out of the 20 guns stocked by the dealer needed replacement frames per Glocks affected serial number list.

Actually, this is exactly what you've been saying the Glock WASN'T doing. Now you have proof that they are actually contacting dealers about the issue--just as you wished them to do.

[jc2]

It is something Glock is FINALLY doing--probably in response to all the negative publicity.

Glock has been aware of the defective frames for over a half a year.

Glock did not bother to contact the LE agencies to which they had sold weapons which Glock knew had defective frames. The agencies had to find out about the defective frames the hard way (when they started to break). It took legal involvement (County Attorney) before Glock was willing to replace the defective frames they had sold.

So, close to a year later (and how many Glocks with defective frames sold to unsuspecting conscumers), Glock finally decides to contact its stocking dealers.

My guess is too many people became aware of the problems with E-prefix frames for Glock to continue to "slow leak" the problem, and the dealers started raising cane with Glock and their distributers.

Regardless of what you think of Glock handguns, Glock Inc.'s handling of the frame issue has left a lot to be desired.

[JohnKSa]

So, now they're doing exactly what you said they should and they're still dogs according to you.

One might begin to get the impression that you won't be happy with Glock no matter what they do.

But we all know that couldn't be the case, right?

[jc2]

You're right. I am not happy with the way Glock, Inc. chose to handle the slide problem. I'm glad to see it finally looks like they're going to do something proactive instead of defensive, but they are about six months too late in doing it.

I am also considerably less than happy that Glock, Inc. has apparently decided to cease production of the 9mm3 follower--adecision that has the potential to eventually render obsolete all pre-ban hi-cap magazines.

I like Glock handguns (at least their 9x19 offerings), but I am not real happy with the company (Glock, Inc.). I can and do distinguish between the product and the management. I think they are making the mistake of taking their customer base for granted (a mistake that has been made by other firearms manufacturers in the past).

[JohnKSa]

Posted by jc2
I am also considerably less than happy that Glock, Inc. has apparently decided to cease production of the 9mm3 follower--adecision that has the potential to eventually render obsolete all pre-ban hi-cap magazines.

Posted by jc2
"If it not written down on a piece paper with four corners--it didn't happen.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=30837&highlight=written+happen+didnt#post30837
So, you were just about to tell us what official Glock publication you read this information in, right?

Any other things about Glock that make you unhappy? Perhaps the search function will help us out...

Sure enough, here are several choice jc2 quotes about Glocks.
Glock, of all the weapons available, is probably one of the most prone to operator error.
The .40 S&W (and 357 Sig) have more kabooms with factory ammunition proportionally than the 9x19 and and .45 ACP, ...They major culprits seem to be Glocks...
Glock has large share of the LE market ...because ... it is cheap...
The Marlin (camp carbine) will outshine the Glock in all areas except portability/carry.
Hmmm,

It would seem that a great deal of things about Glocks make you unhappy. And yet we read...
I like Glock handguns...
Very odd. Why would you like a gun that is "the most prone of all weapons available to operator error", "outshone by a Marlin Camp Carbine in every all areas except portability", "cheap", and "the major culprits" for kabooms.

Is there something you aren't telling us?

[jc2]

What can I say? There's a big difference between "like" and "blind endorsement."

I don't particularly understand why you want to try to make something personal out of this. You want to quote out of context and ignore differening subjects of the posts.

Yes, "Glock, Inc. has apparently decided to cease production of the 9mm3 follower." So what?

Yes, Glocks tend to be more prone to operator error than other designs. It underlines the need for good training and good gun handling.

Yes, Glock has large share of the LE market because it is cheap. Oh, and by the way, you left out the rest of the quote "it works"--so much for your "truth in advertising." So what? It is inexpensive, and it works.

In the context of the thread and in context the Marlin will outshine the Glock (or any other handgun) in all areas except portability/carry. So what? We were comparing a carbine and handgun.

So, yes, I do like Glocks--"warts and all." I would refer you to "House Rule 4" in that your agenda seems to be to make things personal. :banghead:

[JohnKSa]

What can I say?
Apparently lots.

I give you high marks for persistence--and consistency. As usual when you begin to get tripped up by your own statements you begin the accusations about being personally attacked.

Good luck with your Glock.

What kind of Glock was that again?

John

[Freightman]

Man I love Glocks! if it weren't for them there wouldn't be any spice on the gunboards!!
I am going to buy one one of these days when I get enough money as I believe them to be good pistols!

[OreGun]

I have a Glock 23 that I really enjoy shooting. It seemed to fit my hand quite well. Yesterday, I was at the Gun Store "just looking" at the Glock 19 and I handled one as well as an XD-9. I wound up getting the XD-9. I will find out if I made a good choice when I go to the range today. The Springfield was $100.00 less exactly. ($429 vs $529) Has a lifetime warranty and from what I hear, Springfield has excellent Customer Service. Of course all of this looks good on paper, but it is how it all performs that counts.

I think that is the problem with Glock right now. They have an excellent product, and they seem to think so too. They are charging $100 more for a similar product. Yes they are proven but if the XD-9 turns out to be the real deal (in terms of durability) and keeps it's price point, Glock could have some real problems in the civilian sector as far as keeping it's market share. I really don't think they care about the civilian sector nor does HK. They are after the LE and Military contracts. After all, they are a business. Unfortunately, in today's world, cash is King over all else. Personally, I don't expect much from Glock in new calibers unless it something that LE or the Military wants. Again this is just my $.02 so take it with a grain of salt. :)


Have fun and safe shootin'

Wayne

PS I still love my G23

[WESHOOT2]

IMNSHO Glock offers a good gun.
I suggest LEO market better served by Ruger or S&W (yes, S&W) autos with safety lever.

I can thoroughly endorse the Glock M17 (only; moving closer to being able to recommend the M31, too).

There is no perfect gun; they are machines.

[Sven]

Posted by Nero Steptoe in another thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=89134#post89134)

"I know several of us have had problems with our 9mm full cap mags and needing the 9mm3 followers. I called glock on 1-22-03 and asked how I go about ordering 20 for my mags. The customer service guys told me to fax in an order "...advised place a part order using part number - SP01812 and specify 9mm3 followers. Cost: $1.00 each"
I faxed in an order to (770) 433-8719 on the same day with my credit card number and return address info. Yesterday I recieved 20 brand new 9mm3 followers"

[wanderinwalker]

In my opinion, Glock = solid, reliable tool.

My dad has 2, and a 1911. I seem to be the one that gives the Glocks the most work-out. Sure, the 1911 may have the longer track record, and I admire the semi-custom products built on it. But for $500 (going rate around my part of NH) you can pick up a Glock, give it a quick cleaning, and take it shooting. No, the Glock will never be as eye-pleasing as a tuned single-action auto, but, geez, it works!

(BTW, both of my dad's Glocks are E-prefixed [17 and 26]. I am under the impression that he will just shoot them until they fail, or I buy them from him. Not much worry about the frame-rail issue. If it breaks, they'll fix it.)