.41 Magnum or .45 Colt Mountain Gun?


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Mr. Whimsy
February 2, 2010, 12:42 PM
For that matter, does anyone even own a .41 Mag. Mountain Gun? It just seems like I have read a lot on the .45 Colt version (all good BTW). Experiences welcome.

This gun will be used for CCW. My only real concern are 2-legged predators. I'd be lying if I said it wouldn't accompany me deer hunting in the event that a buck comes within 20 yards. Mostly though it will be a packing sixgun for farm use.

I would have to invest in dies, casings, etc. to reload for .41. I already have all the reloading stuff for .45 Colt, though I don't currently own any guns. I'm familiar with how it recoils in a Mountain Gun because I previously owned a 625 in .45 ACP, probably not too dissimilar.

But like an itch I just can't scratch, I am fascinated with the .41's reputation for recoil in between the .357 and .44 Mag. Is the recoil really significantly less than a .44 Mag. in the Mountain Gun? Or is it just a pricier, more esoteric version of same? If so I would be better off going heavy and slow with the .45 Colt. So is it all .41-fanboy hype?

Also, does anyone possess any knowledge concerning relative stopping power between the cartridges? I'm fairly confident in a 255 gr. .45 Colt bullet, but what about a 175 gr. .41 Mag.? I've Googled but not found any info on it. Back in the day I read the Marshall and Sanow statistics that claimed magnums in self defense are ineffective, but have begun to question their logic. To be honest, I've always thought a .41 Mag. would be an outstanding round for stopping evildoers. Or big dogs on the rampage.

What are your experiences/thoughts?
Keep in mind I live in a rural environment, not a city.

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22-rimfire
February 2, 2010, 01:24 PM
I have a M57 Mountain Gun in 41 mag. I like the gun a lot and it is probably one of the most fired centerfire revolvers I own along with a Colt Trooper Mark III in 357 mag. There is no question that the 41 mag will have devastating results with "evil doers" as would the 44 mag. I have not shot the 175 gr Federal load, but I believe it is a fairly light load and would be the most suitable factory loaded defense load in 41 mag. As you know, the argument against the magnum handgun calibers for self defense is the energy dump is not as complete before the bullet completely penetrates the "evil doer". You can buy cowboy loads from GA Arms which are very light.

I carry my MG if I hunt deer with a rifle. You could probably reach out a bit more than 20 yds with some practice even with the 4" barrel.

For me it would be too large a gun for CCW, but that's me.

You are probably better off with the 45LC since you already shoot that one. But I am not well versed in the 45LC other than reading about it here. I had a 4" M25 Smith which I sold. Never really shot it much which is why I sold it. That was in my buying and selling days and many guns did not last long in my possession during that time.

All that aside, I think you would enjoy a 41 mag. The Mountain Gun is a good choice. It may be the beginning of a new love affair. I like it because I shoot it better than a 44 mag. I'm sure recoil is part of that equation. Some 44 mag folks say that they can't tell much difference between the 44 and 41 in terms of recoil. I hit what I aim at consistantly with the 41 mag out to about 50 yds and further with a longer barreled Smith.

rcmodel
February 2, 2010, 01:24 PM
I have a .45 ACP Mountan gun, and a pre-Mountain Gun mountain gun in a .44 Spl. 4 1/2" 1950 Target.
My hunting pard has two Mountain Guns in .45 Colt and .41 Mag.

World of differance.
.41 Mag weighs more due to smaller holes in everything.
Very ear splitting muzzle blast without hearing protection.
I guess recoil is less then a .44 Mag, but not much.

I would pick the .45 Colt or ACP version myself, with .44 Mag running in third place.

Much greater choice of bullets in .44 & .45 Caliber then there is in .41.

As for hunting?
The .41 can probably be a better hunting caliber in an N-Frame due to much higher velocity and higher SD & BC bullets giving very flat trajectory and deeper penetration.

As for SD stopping power?
Who knows?
Deep penetration is relative on a 12" thick human.

A .45 Colt or ACP is a .45, and we know what they can do.

rc

RugRev
February 2, 2010, 02:11 PM
In the past had a .45 Colt and .44 mag Mtn. Gun (wish I still did have both). The .45 will be a bit less ear splitting in that even with +P loads the pressure is less and the dwell time at peak greater i.e. less of a spike. As you already have the loading eqpt. the .45 would be a bit less costly to get into than the .41 and the gun is lighter as noted above than the .41. As to recoil due to weight with stout loads they all will recoil with the .45 a bit more of a shove or push as to a sharp recoil which may or may not be noticeable.

In looking at only one custom maker, Corbon (just as an example), they list a .41 mag
170 JHP load at 1275 fps and 614 ft/lbs. energy ( http://www.dakotaammo.net/Self-Defense-JHP/41-Rem-Mag-170gr-CORBON-Self-Defense-JHP/SD41M170-20/100/Product ) and a .45 Colt 200 gr +P load at 1100 fps and 537 ft/lbs energy ( http://www.dakotaammo.net/Self-Defense-JHP/45-Colt-Plus-P-200gr-CORBON-Self-Defense-JHP/SD45C200-20/100/Product ) for 2 legged defense.

As noted above .45 components probably are a bit easier to come by than .41, the .41 probably would be the better hunting gun and the .45 better for defense against the 2 legged type predators.

MichaelK
February 2, 2010, 02:56 PM
Had a friend that had a .41, but I took the view "anything the .41 can do the .44 can do better and have bought .44 magnums. If you already reload, than recoil shouldn't be an issue. Just load a .44 starting load and you'll equal the performance of a .41. If you want to buy ammo at the store, you're better off with a .44. Can't even remember my store have .41's on the shelf. If recoil is REALLY an issue, than you can shoot .44 specials. There's no .41 special on the shelf.

Maybe the worst thing you can say about the comparison is that you'd need about 1 grain more of powder in the .44 to make a load equal to that of a .41.

ArmedBear
February 2, 2010, 03:03 PM
The N-frame can be carried concealed, but it's not easy.:)

If I were going to get a full-size .45 to carry concealed, I'd just get a 1911.

Here's my thought about Mountain Guns...

1. .45 cylinder walls are getting mighty thin. Remember why Elmer Keith, a big fan of the .45 Colt, switched to .44 (actually .43") for his experiments with high-powered revolver rounds? Where's the "Mountain" in the .45, really, if you can't run "Ruger-only" loads?

2. The .41 is heavier than the .44 or .45, and the marginally flatter trajectory than a .44 wouldn't be a major selling point, to me, in a lightened 4" revolver. The .41 lacks the "difference that makes a difference", and that's why the .44 has been far more popular than the .41.

3. The .44 splits the difference in weight between the two, and allows the most versatility in your choice of rounds. It's the Mountain Gun that makes the most sense to me. And it's the one I plopped down my hard-earned money to buy. I really do like that gun, and I highly recommend it, in whatever caliber you choose.

KBintheSLC
February 2, 2010, 03:06 PM
The .41 is a very nifty cartridge and can be loaded to fire-breathing status... but then again, so can the .45 LC if your gun can handle it. Since you are already setup to load .45's, you may as well stick with that. Roll some heavy 255g hard cast SWC-FP bullets backed by enough push to make them hot (but not overly hot). You will have penetration for days. It would make a great woods cartridge.

zfk55
February 2, 2010, 03:15 PM
Here in NW Montana we have black bear running through our place regularly. When Im out and about afoot or on the Rhino I carry this with 250gr hardcast bullets in the .41 mag.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/zfk3155/41Mag2.jpg

And this might shed some light.
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/41heavy.htm

zfk55

Mr. Whimsy
February 2, 2010, 03:32 PM
I'm grateful for so much feedback gentlemen.. Thank you all.

Unfortunately, .44 Mag. is not an option, or I would just do that. Only have a line on a new .45 and .41, both blue and at greatly reduced price because of not being in .44 I would imagine. I figure one of the these misfits deserves a good home.

Boy, .41 components are mostly out of stock... whereas the more popular .45 components seem easy to find online. Would have thought it would be the opposite.

zfk55
February 2, 2010, 03:34 PM
Who are you checking with?

Try here. http://www.blue-star-inc.com/catalog/npbrass.htm
zfk55

ArmedBear
February 2, 2010, 03:37 PM
Would have thought it would be the opposite.

Cabelas has .41 brass and a number of bullets. Maybe not the cheapest, but they actually have it.:)

As far as giving a good home to some blue Mountain Guns, I'd say, go for it!

(And tell me where to find the one you don't buy.:))

Confederate
February 2, 2010, 03:42 PM
Both the .41 and .45 Colt are good rounds, but the .357 is lighter and is at least as effective as the others -- which raises the question of why you'd prefer the heavier guns.

When stopping bears or taking larger game, deeper penetration is a must; however, penetration can work against you with larger calibers. In fact, as far as I know, no handgun caliber known can beat the 125 gr JHP .357 mag. Creatures with greater body mass can go down better and faster with the larger calibers, but for humans, why carry the extra weight and risk gross overpenetration?

zfk55
February 2, 2010, 03:58 PM
Nominal figures.
.357: 180gr MV 1,180fps ... ME 550
Comparative .41 mag load: 175gr MV 1,250 ... ME 640

Typical .41 mag load: 250gr MV 1,325... ME 975

Not quite similar, or?

zfk55

sw282
February 2, 2010, 04:45 PM
41- Simply because it "IS" a magnum.

Walkalong
February 2, 2010, 05:27 PM
My only real concern are 2-legged predators
They stand no chance against a .45 Colt, and it has less recoil & ear splitting blast in a defense situation with no hearing protection.

Mr. Whimsy
February 2, 2010, 07:16 PM
Confederate, I have heard the .357 is an effective anti-personnel round for years. And then there's that State Trooper who emptied his .357 into a bad guy and then was killed by the BG's .22. I think his name was Coats. I wonder how he would feel about the .357 if he could talk?

More effective than the other 2 calibers? I don't know about that.

I would simply feel more confident in either .45 LC or .41 Mag. Besides, I just like N frames.

ArmedBear
February 2, 2010, 07:48 PM
WWED?

http://kzconcepts.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/cool31.jpg

MovedWest
February 2, 2010, 08:40 PM
If I were choosing a caliber to do what you're wanting to do I'd rather go with the 44 magnum. Since you're already mentioning reloading I think you'll get a whole lot more mileage out of the 44. A 44 special load will generally keep up with a 45acp load - and you can load both hotter if you like.

If you want more oomph use the magnums. I settle for a mild magnum load for smaller game and plinking - more than a 44spl and you can shoot it all day. It's tough to beat a 44 mag for reliability, endurance, and versatility - especially if you reload. I own several Ruger SBH's for this very reason.

If I can't persuade you to the 44mag, then go with the 45. You will find it considerably more difficult to find ammo and reloading components for a 41 than for a 44 or 45. 45LC rounds can be tough to locate, weak when you find them (cowboy loads), and as expensive as 44 mag ammo.

Just my 2 cents,
-MW

Mr. Whimsy
February 2, 2010, 09:23 PM
I'm finding that .45 bullet offerings vastly outnumber the .41 pills.

Many good bullets like Golden Sabers aren't offered in .41.

I will try the websites you guys mentioned.

Bush Pilot
February 2, 2010, 11:01 PM
W/O a doubt, the .41 magnum. Why the .41? I've got more brass and bullets for the .41 than I can a shake a stick at.

Quoheleth
February 2, 2010, 11:15 PM
You'll have fewer choices in the .41 for ammo unless you load your own, and even then components are very difficult - but not impossible - to find.

I just got done reading an older Skeeter Skelton article on the .41. It is quite comparable to the .44 Magnum in loadability, from very mild to stompers. IIRC, Skelton said that the .44 Mag will produce 16 foot/lbs of recoil; the .41 something like 13 ft/lbs but, he added, he really can't tell the difference between the two. The .41 arguably is a little flatter shooting than a .44.

I can't speak to the .45 as I have never shot one. From what I've seen on shelves, though, .45 Colt is available for ammo and components are all over the place.

If you go .41, Missouri Bullet has a nice 215gr Keith-style SWC that's a nice bullet. I've put that over 8gr Unique for a nice medium plinker and recently found 2400 to make some real thumpers to see what I can stand out of my Blackhawk.

For me, the choice was easy: my .41 Blackhawk was under $300 sticker. Similar guns in .45 are 50% more.

Q

orionengnr
February 2, 2010, 11:44 PM
If you are a handloader, the .45LC and the .41 Mag are great choices (not to say that the .44 isn't as well).

Before I started handloading, I had three .44s...today I have none. Instead I have two .41 Mags and three .45LCs, and I shoot them a lot more. :)

If you are set up to load .45LC, then get one, and you will enjoy it. If you want to venture out a bit, get a .41...or better yet, do both, as time and resources permit.

Brass for each is available from StarLine, projectiles are available everywhere (just got an order from Missouri Bullet) and loads for each cartridge are available. I have loads for W231 and Green Dot for range loads for both. For serious .41 loads, W296 and 2400 will do the trick.

I also own at least three .357 Magnum revolvers, but seldom shoot them any more. Between the .41 and the .45, I have all bases covered.

And as far a N-frames being difficult to carry...well, if you can carry a 4" K-frame, a 4" N-frame is no big deal. I actually have and use two K-frame holsters (one IWB and one OWB) that were gently stretched to fit an N-frame. I can carry either revolver in either holster, but when I carry a revolver, it's going to be a caliber the starts with a 4.

Have fun. :)

Mr. Whimsy
February 3, 2010, 07:53 AM
Yes I am a handloader, and probably would never require factory ammo so long as I could acquire JHP's. Which is good, since I haven't actually located a box of ammo for it.

Components seem to be a real problem right now. Maybe they are seasonal. I can find any .41 JHP I want, so long as it's 210 gr. The lighter 170's seem to be out of stock everywhere. Lead bullets are not as hard to get, but of course are not suitable for high speed unless you like pricey gas-checked ones.

Darn it. I was looking forward to something different, but frankly it seems the .41 is dying, even compared to niche calibers like 10mm. Several vendors don't even offer the Sierra 170 gr. bullet any more.

Stainz
February 3, 2010, 10:13 AM
I'll walk with Walkalong on this - if SD is a main role, the .45 Colt is the answer. Ammo availability? Ammo energy range? Reloading components? No question - I love the .45 Colt. And - recall that the standard spec for .45 Colt is 14 kPSI - and the S&W 625 cylinder, barrel, frame, etc, were designed for the 21+ kPSI .45 ACP.

That ammo range is important - all .41 Magnum commercial loads I've seen - and shot some years ago in a friend's 657 - were true Magnums - fairly hot. The .45 Colt fare runs the gamut - softer Cowboy loads to real defensive loads. And, if you really need more oomph, get a .454 Casull! BTW, a great stopper - a 255gr LSWC at 850+ fps - or, the slow speed opener Speer #4484 250gr Gold Dot.

I have .44 Magnums - but I love my pair of 625MGs in .45 Colt. Fun, powerful, and nostalgic. That's the only revolver model I have a 'backup' in! Of course, already having the reloading dies, etc, helps. In my case, I started reloading for the .45 Colt - and my first-ever S&W - a 625MG in .45 Colt... but I am not opinionated at all...

Stainz

PS A great alternative - a 625JM in .45 ACP. Load the .45 Colt 255gr LSWC lead or 250gr GDJHPs in .45 Auto Rims & an HKS #25 speedloader. I keep >200 moonclips full of 230gr FMJ ball ammo loads for frugal plinking - and Zombie deterence. Talk about 'readily available' ammo...

Mr. Whimsy
February 3, 2010, 11:50 AM
Stainz, it's funny but I also have .45 ACP S&W's, and once foolishly sold my 625 MG in ACP. They are the bees knees.

I think you are right, the .45 Colt is better for SD and is good enough for outdoor requirements without resorting to blast and recoil.

John Linebough says magnums = range and trajectory... and he carries a .45 Colt Mountain Gun that's NOT loaded hot. That speaks volumes about stopping power without even mentioning it.

Pyzon
February 3, 2010, 12:44 PM
Given the fact you intend to handload, I would suggest that it is possible to find recipes for the .41, .44 and the .45 Colt, with perfectly acceptable performances for lots of purposes.

Yep, .44 factory loads and components are for sure easier to find, but the others are not exactly scarce, and should not become so anytime in the near future. When you find the stuff you need in .41 or .45 Colt, stock up. How many rounds are you likely to shoot in the next 5 years ?

I've had all three of your choices, but the .41 is the coolest one, followed closely by the .45 Colt.

But I've always had a soft spot for the underdogs I guess. I even have a Marlin lever gun in .218 Bee and a Remington 5mm Mag rimfire !

MichaelK
February 3, 2010, 02:18 PM
Unfortunately, .44 Mag. is not an option, or I would just do that. Only have a line on a new .45 and .41, both blue and at greatly reduced price because of not being in .44 I would imagine. I figure one of the these misfits deserves a good home.

OK, if one of your choices is a Blackhawk, I would get the .45. Just finished consulting my Speer manual and saw several Blackhawk specific loads pushing a 200 grain bullet at 1300+fps. In the .41 section I could see several 200 grain bullet loads going at 1300+fps. If max performance is about the same, I'd go with the cartridge that was more easy to buy in the store, which .45 Colt wins hands down. There are way more commercial bullets for the .45, and many more cast bullet molds, so what's there not to like about the .45.

Stainz
February 3, 2010, 04:55 PM
GA Arms loads the high speed designed Speer 200gr Gold Dot in Starline .45 Colt brass to the same ballistic effect as the CCI Blazers Al-cased variants with that same bullet. I chrono-ed them at 1123 +/-8 fps from my 4" 625MG; 1210 +/-20 fps from my 5.5" RH; and 1424 +/-6 fps from my 24" Puma M1892. 'Standard' .45 Colts can be effective! I feel the low speed 250gr GDJHP is a better choice for a BG-stopper - opens at lesser speeds - and offers less penetration. No where near as loud - or as 'brisk'. Like the 255gr LSWC, big boom and a proper 'push'. The .45 Colt exudes power & effect - in a strong, but polite way - it has to be experienced... not on the muzzle end, however!

My massive 625MG collection:

http://s171.photobucket.com/albums/u307/Stainz_2007/IMG_3430.jpg

The top 625MG is a -7 my wife shocked me with Labor Day '02 - my first S&W - a new 625MG - that had 'COLT' emblazoned on the barrel! It started a trend. To save it's sentimental value, as I had been on a rush to wear it out, I picked up a nice LN -6 MG when I could. It got the Dymondwood Combats - and my original, the Ahrends square conversions. Great woods walkers - where allowed. Oddly, I find myself with my pocketed 296 2.5" hammerless AirLite Ti .44 Special most of the time in the woods nowadays - great BG-protection - and less intimidating/more sheeple-friendly.

Stainz

PS While the HKS #25 has wide-spaced tines for the thick-rimmed .45 Auto Rims for use in a .45 ACP 25/625/1917, their #25-5 is appropriate for .45 Colts & Schoffields, etc, in a S&W 25/625 & Ruger .45 RH/.454 SRH.

Mr. Whimsy
February 4, 2010, 12:24 PM
Stainz, good info there. Thanks.

Pyzon, I too find underdogs irresistable.

In my mind, I know the .45 LC makes more sense for me.

Now if I could just get my heart in line with it, I could put away my childish magnum desires. I honestly have no need for a magnum... but this one is something I've never had.

I keep telling myself that 5 minutes of shooting it would likely cure me of this, and would be an expensive lesson to learn given that the only .44 magnum I've ever actually enjoyed was a Bisley, a veritable brick on the hip. Is the .41 a shootable magnum? Would it really have less muzzle flip? Or would it just kick like an angry mule .44 Mountain Gun? In my mind, I know it probably would.

Thankfully PayPal is taking its sweet time giving me my money.

Steve C
February 4, 2010, 02:32 PM
The .41 mag is a great cartridge but you'd better hand load or be well healed to afford to shoot it much. There isn't a whole lot of difference between the .41 mag and the .44 mag, esp in top loads. The .44 uses a .429" dia bullet while the .41 mag uses an actual .410" diameter bullet. That 19/100th difference isn't a lot.

The .41 mag beats the old .45 Colt in stopping power with factory loads and anything you can shoot out of a non Ruger or TC.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=114865&stc=1&d=1265307749

Here's my .41mag 657 Mountain Gun with Pachmeyers.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=114866&stc=1&d=1265308091

sw282
February 4, 2010, 11:48 PM
Steve- thats actually nineteen/thousandths

ljnowell
February 5, 2010, 02:07 AM
When stopping bears or taking larger game, deeper penetration is a must; however, penetration can work against you with larger calibers. In fact, as far as I know, no handgun caliber known can beat the 125 gr JHP .357 mag. Creatures with greater body mass can go down better and faster with the larger calibers, but for humans, why carry the extra weight and risk gross overpenetration?
I launch a 300gr TC at almost 1300fps. I bet that would get it.

Mr. Whimsy
February 5, 2010, 01:21 PM
I have decided not to buy the M57 Mountain gun. I've searched on and off for days (it's tedious) looking at availability of components, and am getting the impression that the .41 is a seasonal critter to the bullet companies. It was literally easier to find .480 Ruger components than .41 Mag., and the 10mm is downright ubiquitous. I would actually be better off buying a S&W 610 if wanting to split the difference between .357 and .44. And since it's just like my 625 JM, I probably will just abandon the .40/.41 altogether. Too bad they don't make a 66 in 10mm or .40 s&w.

Thanks for all your assistance, there are really some great people on this forum. I hope I can become one of them some day.

I am still thinking hard about the .45 Colt MG, but it's starting to bother me thinking about how I'd prefer it in .45 ACP to go with my other revos.

KBintheSLC
February 5, 2010, 04:23 PM
The 10mm is actually a pretty good compromise. That was what I ended up with after considering several larger magnum cartridges for the woods.

orionengnr
February 5, 2010, 10:43 PM
I have decided not to buy the M57 Mountain gun. I've searched on and off for days (it's tedious) looking at availability of components, and am getting the impression that the .41 is a seasonal critter to the bullet companies. It was literally easier to find .480 Ruger components than .41 Mag.,

Don't know where you are, but I can buy .41 lead and new Starline brass at any gun show, and we have several per month. I have also bought lead bullets from Missouri Bullet recently. I haven't shopped for JHPs or plated bullets lately as I have a fair amount already, but www.blue-star.com (in Arkansas) shows up at every Dallas Market Hall show (four times per year), and they have at least four different .41 bullets in JHP and lead configurations, and will sell them by the 100, 500 or 1000. I've bought a few :)

PM me if I can help. Or if you want to tell me where that M-57 is :)

DancesWithSquirrels
February 6, 2010, 09:23 AM
And then there's that State Trooper who emptied his .357 into a bad guy and then was killed by the BG's .22.

It seems that using this experience as a baseline that trooper would have been better off with the BG's .22. These are the kinds of examples that makes the whole stopping power for caliber argument almost pointless. I would prefer to focus on shot placement.

DWS

Mr. Whimsy
February 6, 2010, 11:22 AM
1. I don't go to gunshows anymore.
2. I was looking at Midway, Graf&Sons, Natchez, and a bunch of other online locations since I don't like the local gunshop.
3. Lead .41 bullets are out there, it's just that I wanted light 170 gr. JHP's and you are lucky if you can find 210 gr. Casings are out there too if you look, but no one seemed to have BOTH in stock. Much of my results indicated "seasonal" production. The .45 on the other hand is downright easy to get, though not nearly as appealing.

Chindo18Z
February 6, 2010, 12:09 PM
I'd get the .41 Mountain Gun.

You've already owned the .45 and it evidently didn't do enough for you that you traded it away and are still comparing it to .41s. .38 Supers, and 10mms. That fact alone should signal a gut check for wanting a .41 Magnum. Have some fun and do it.

I've owned a few Rugers and Smiths in both .41Mag & .44Mag/Special. I continue to own several today. The .41s are my absolute favorite revolvers.

I don't find a lot of difference using top end loads in terms of blast, flash, & percieved recoil. A hot load with heavy bullet in .41 is a pretty stiff handfull even when compared to peer .44s. A Remington 210 JSP will get your attention and that of others on the firing line. With mid-range 180-210 grain loads, the .41 begins to deliver less percieved recoil than the .44 (Magnum). With 175's (light bullet < 1300fps), the.41 is a pussycat out of a big gun.

In either caliber, an adjustable sight N-Frame is able to shoot to point of aim at practical handgun ranges (muzzle to 25 yards). You'd have to be shooting distant steel rams before the .41's slightly flatter trajectory would even be noticeable.

You stated that you want the caliber for self defense or occasional deer harvesting/finishing. That in mind, unless you truly intend to shoot it often, I'll be the dissenter to the cliche that you can only own a .41 if you reload.

IMHO, Winchester's 175 grain Silvertip (1250fps) is probably the best factory produced self-defense round for the .41 Magnum. Recoil out of a 4" N-Frame 57 or 58 is a lot milder than most 125 grain .357s out of 4" K-Frames. Comparable to firing .44 Special out of the same sized revolver. Easy to shoot, easy on the hand, relatively quick recoil recovery. A relatively heavy and expanding bullet doing moderately high speed, but easily managed. It is perfectly adequate for deer at short range (inside 40 yards).

A little more delivered oomph than the classic "ideal police" load of 1000 fps and forty caliber or greater.

As a bonus, it is often priced as the cheapest available factory .41 load. I occasionally find boxes still sitting on gunstore shelves at prices under $20 per box. I've gotten a discount by offering to buy all they had (5 or six boxes).

Some current vendors:

$18.50 box of 20 / $19.25 x 10 boxes - http://www.outdoormarksman.com/product_info.php?cPath=65_1_18
&products_id=185

$24.49 box of 20 -
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=396918

It's the only self defense / general purpose round I carry in my .41s.

Here's a good IWB holster setup for N-Frames or Blackhawks:

http://www.caboholster.com/


Hope this helps.

22-rimfire
February 6, 2010, 02:01 PM
I guess you need to let folks know where that 41 mag MG is. Many here actually love the caliber. We lost a potential 41 mag convert, but maybe you'll be back around. I believe the expensive Remington loading is "seasonal" and the others are regular production.

RugRev
February 6, 2010, 02:54 PM
"It was literally easier to find .480 Ruger components than .41 Mag., and the 10mm is downright ubiquitous. I would actually be better off buying a S&W 610 if wanting to split the difference between .357 and .44. And since it's just like my 625 JM, I probably will just abandon the .40/.41 altogether. Too bad they don't make a 66 in 10mm or .40 s&w."



Smith made the 610 10mms on the N frame but they had a 646 in 2 different incarnations built on the lighter L frame in .40 S&W. I don't know about the L frame but Dave Clements does a nice conversion of the Ruger GP-100 to fire full power 10mm loads.

JShirley
February 6, 2010, 03:02 PM
does anyone possess any knowledge concerning relative stopping power between the cartridges?

I submit that there is no practical difference, if you're talking about stopping humans or close deer. I like both calibers, and both have advantages. I believe good .45 Colt ammunition is easier to find than .41.

I have a .41, but oddly enough, a bunch of .45 Colt ammunition. :rolleyes:

Cloudpeak
February 6, 2010, 06:39 PM
One advantage to the 45 Colt I didn't see mentioned is you can have the cylinder milled to accept moon clips and can then shoot 45 ACP's for target practice and plinking. Lots of cheap brass for 45 ACP and moon clips make for a fast reload.

Mr. Whimsy
February 6, 2010, 11:19 PM
Damn it, Chindo. I had it all figured out and then you had to go and rile me up again and now I'm reconsidering getting that .41. Actually, it isn't just you, but also the love and devotion to this cartridge owners have. I'm going to see how I feel about it when I wake up Monday morning, and go with whatever my gut tells me.

BTW, Smith and Wesson is trickling out new m58's.

Anyway, you guys have been great, so I will tell you where you can get both the .45 Colt and .41 Mountain Guns.

I'm just not telling you until Monday, after I've decided for sure.

.41Dave
February 7, 2010, 02:45 AM
I own both and love both. No matter which one you chose, you really can't go wrong. I would suggest the .41, if only because you described the .41 as being "like an itch I just can't scratch". If you don't get the .41, the itch will remain!

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii120/dhultsch/is_00346-1.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii120/dhultsch/GunPics3-20-06024.jpg

Mr. Whimsy
February 7, 2010, 09:55 AM
Beautiful guns.

I might have forgotten to mention the guns I am referring to are new production with the Internal Lock.

I find it horrendously ugly but on the other hand have never had any trouble with them, so it doesn't really dissuade me.

bugs100
February 7, 2010, 10:41 AM
I bought a 4 inch 657 41 mag in 1984. It's not a Mountain gun and it was one of a run of 1500 that came with a full barrel.

I carried it for years in shoulder holster with 240gr Sliver tips as a back up. I use to get a little ribbing about carrying it until one day We were all at the range and I pulled it out and started blasting away.

There were 6 shots in the black at 50ft. when the noise stopped their were a lot of guys standing there with their mouths open. No one ever teased me about it again..

I still have it and still have some of those 240gr silver tips but I usally carry it with the 210gr cast that Penn Bullet offers with 8grs of Unique.

Walkalong
February 7, 2010, 11:07 AM
I just loaded some more .45 Colt yesterday. I only have a half a box of .41s, and might load another 50 today. Maybe. I will definitely load some more .45 Colt. I just haven't decided which load yet.

I have one .41 Mag & three .45 Colts. I would like a nice M57 one day though.

If I had to get rid of one, it would be .41 Mag, in a close vote. (Because I have .44 Mags) I hate the "which one would you keep" threads. Heck, I'm keeping them all. Well, mostly.

For the original question, assuming two legged critters, I still say .45 Colt. :)

22-rimfire
February 7, 2010, 12:22 PM
About a year ago, I found another M57 Mountain Gun of recent manufacture at a gunshop in new condition. The grips were extremely plain as might be put on a M357. Yes, it had the lock as does my blue one. I liked it, but opted not to buy at that time. It eventually sold. I'm more in the market for a 6" M57 Blue now (not the 657) as I have the other barrel lengths.

420Stainless
February 7, 2010, 12:33 PM
The only potential thought, and this is speculation on my part, may be that you could get higher energy from the .41 Mag. in a Mountain Gun. I've seen some warnings not to load too hot for the Model 25 Mountain Gun (which I have and recommend). Negligable for self-defense, and probably hunting for that matter, but perhaps notable if you're into that sort of thing. However, since the Mountain Guns are fairly light as far as N-Frames go, more energy may not be all that desirable.

Mr. Whimsy
February 8, 2010, 02:46 PM
Ok, I think I am going to wait before making a purchase, since the weather will preclude me shooting anything anyway for at least another week.

If you guys are still interested, you can find these Mountain Guns (with IL) at a distributor called Sports South. They are significantly cheaper than what you'd pay for a new M57 Classic w/ 4" barrel.

These guns don't seem to be selling on GunBroker even at reasonable prices, which scared me off.

Chindo18Z
February 8, 2010, 11:16 PM
Although I destest lock-equipped Smiths, I found myself fondling a 4" new 57 a few weeks ago (and thinking about buying it).

When I finally see one of the new 58s in person, I'll probably fork over the cash.

I already own versions of the originals, but...the new ones sure are fine.

Mr. Whimsy
February 9, 2010, 03:46 PM
Actually I am waiting for a 58 to come my way as well. Lot more $, but I've always wanted one, so I'll just be patient.

Stainz
February 10, 2010, 06:27 AM
If you need brass - may as well get it from the source - Starline. Their .41 Magnum brass is $148/1,000 delivered. They are OOS until 3/15 on that size. I didn't check on .45 Colt - it may be available. Their brass is a bit more than half price in 500 count lots, due to the included s/h. Nice folks to deal with.

Stainz

oldpuppymax
February 10, 2010, 12:17 PM
I emailed Magtech at the beginning of Feb just to ask if they were still manufacturing .45 LC ammo. They were kind enough to respond and said yes they were...as much as they could, but that demand--especially by Ruger .45LC owners--was outstripping supply. I don't know about the Ruger nonsense, but I do know I haven't been able to find .45LC ammo for nearly 3 months. I've enjoyed my Uberti 1858 New Army, but without cowboy OR regular loads, my next Colt/Remington copy will be a .357.

Nick5182
February 10, 2010, 12:21 PM
My dad has a 625 Mountain Gun in .45 Colt that he's had for years and it's one of his main carry weapons. It's also the gun he used as a back-up when he was in law enforcement. I honestly don't think you can go wrong with a Mountain Gun regardless of what caliber you choose.

MCgunner
February 10, 2010, 12:21 PM
Strickly in a Mountain Gun, I'd get the .41. It'll out pace the .45 in that gun. I do handload.

However, I have a 4 5/8" Blackhawk I prefer and it's in .45 Colt and it will out pace the .41 with MY loads.

Ya know, the MG is also available in .44 mag.

For CCW, though, either caliber would work for me. Since I already have dies and molds and such, I'd probably go .45 Colt. I couldn't carry that brick CCW, though. My GAWD, I have a hard enough time with a steel J frame in a pocket. I don't carry much except in a pocket except for unusually cold winters down here. I've been toting a 3" medium frame .357 lately in a belt slide holster. That gun is 33 ounces or so. Can't see totin' 40 ounces even on a belt for CCW. But, that's just me. Everyone has their own ideas on it.

roscoe
February 10, 2010, 06:44 PM
Strickly in a Mountain Gun, I'd get the .41. It'll out pace the .45 in that gun. I do handload.

However, I have a 4 5/8" Blackhawk I prefer and it's in .45 Colt and it will out pace the .41 with MY loads.

Exactly - the Mountain gun cannot take a full power (Double Tap or Buffalo Bore) .45LC load. The Blackhak can, and is very light for such a powerful gun.

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