kel-tec PF-9 problems


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harmon rabb
February 4, 2010, 03:14 PM
Picked up a PF-9 at a gun show last weekend for pocket carry. Field stripped it and cleaned it immediately. Noticed it was dirty inside and looked cheaply made. No big deal, long as the thing works right? I don't expect a kel-tec to be a les baer.

Took it to the range the first time earlier this week. Went about 30 rounds without issues, then had about 5 jams after. Some were failures to eject, some were failures to extract. I figured, well, hey, it just needs to break in.

Without cleaning it from the last trip (i figured 50 rounds, what the heck), I took it again today. It functioned flawlessly for 100 rounds. I was feeling better about it. Then around round 120 or so, it started having failures to extract with every round. After about 5 in a row, I just gave up.

I figure I'll clean it good tonight, then try it out again tomorrow. Maybe it was too gunked up inside, as I know little gun tend to get dirty as hell quickly. If it has any more issues, I'm thinking it should go back to kel-tec.

Anyone have a similar experience? Never had a failure to extract before.

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351 WINCHESTER
February 4, 2010, 03:21 PM
If it's an older gun (who knows) call k/t and tell them of your issues. They should offer to fix it and make any upgrades since you one was made. I would think they would pay for shipping both ways too.

harmon rabb
February 4, 2010, 03:30 PM
it's a newer one. checked the serial number. you can also tell by the mag release.

rcmodel
February 4, 2010, 03:38 PM
Check the 2mm extractor spring button-head screw.

If it is loose, you will have exactly the problems you are having.

Also, Kel-Tecs are tiny for the power levels they put out.

They require cleaning, and a good high film-strength lube, especially during the break-in period. Lots of owners use grease instead of light oil on the frame rails and locking pin cam to good effect.

After 200 - 300 rounds they get less picky.

rc

harmon rabb
February 4, 2010, 03:53 PM
rcmodel,

i will check the extractor spring, and will grease it up tonight. thanks. i had been using light oil.

MachIVshooter
February 4, 2010, 04:00 PM
Tear it completely down as well. Including removing the firing pin. Clean it thoroughly. They need that immediately after purchase to get the anti-corrosion chemicals off, and who knows if the previous owner did.

I do this with all guns I purchase, as it also allows a rudimentary safety inspection at the same time.

harmon rabb
February 4, 2010, 04:15 PM
i bought it NIB, not used.

MachIVshooter
February 4, 2010, 05:37 PM
i bought it NIB, not used.

Sorry. I was under the impression it was used after reading:

it's a newer one. checked the serial number. you can also tell by the mag release.

However, I stand by my previous recommendation to completely tear it down and clean every part. My very early PF9 had light strikes my first time out. It was a -2* day, and there was enough goo in the firing pin hole that it was retarding the pin as the inhibitor congealed from the cold. Ever since I cleaned that out, flawless.

wnycollector
February 4, 2010, 06:00 PM
I have had a problem similar to yours with my PF-9. I took it to range one week and shoot 100 rounds of dirty 125gr RNL reloads flawlessly and in a lapse of judgment I put my PF-9 away w/o cleaning it! The next weekend I took it to the range and had 3 FTE's on the first 3 mags. I decided to field strip it and clean off as much crud (it was FILTHY!) as I could with a few paper towels I had in my range bag. After reassembly, it was flawless for the next 79 rounds! The moral of the story for my PF-9 is that it REALLY likes to be cleaned and lubed after trips to the range.

Lots of owners use grease instead of light oil on the frame rails and locking pin cam to good effect.

+1 on this suggestion. My PF-9 is 100% when it is cleaned and has a nice light coat of grease on the rails! I have been using grease on the rails of ALL five (three SIGs, a CZ and a S&W) of my aluminum framed pistols for years.

huduguru
February 4, 2010, 10:50 PM
Just get a G26, you don't want to loose your life to a jam(it will happen, after all, it's a Keltec)) when a punk with a Hi Point(a much more reliable weapon) empties his mag into you. :)

Shadow 7D
February 5, 2010, 12:52 AM
Um, that is very open to interpretation, as many people question the hi-point, and kel tecs have a rep of working for some, and not for others, at least you don't pay 2 grand for it like a kimber.

If you still have trouble after cleaning it, check out KTOG, the kel tec forum, do a fluff and buff, if you haven't already, and if all that don't work, call keltec and they will help you fix it.

harmon rabb
February 5, 2010, 06:22 AM
Just get a G26, you don't want to loose your life to a jam(it will happen, after all, it's a Keltec)) when a punk with a Hi Point(a much more reliable weapon) empties his mag into you.

I have a G27 ;) I have not been carrying the pf-9, and will not carry it, until it has become reliable. Whether it has to go back to kel-tec, be worked over by a gunsmith, whatever. Will not carry it until then.

MachIVshooter
February 5, 2010, 10:59 AM
Just get a G26, you don't want to loose your life to a jam

But you might lose your hand :neener:

KT makes a good gun, I wouldn't own 5 if they didn't. The OP just needs to work out (or let KT fix) whatever is wrong with it. The PF9 is not desireable because it has superior durability/reliability as compared to the Glock. It is desireable because it is half the weight and much thinner.

And Glock pistols can and do jam as well.

harmon rabb
February 5, 2010, 11:15 AM
at least you don't pay 2 grand for it like a kimber.

quite true, and why i was willing to purchase a gun that i know might be hit or miss. if i can never get it to work right, hey, i'm only out the 280 or so i paid, no big deal. (and no, if i have a gun that's proven to be a pos, i'm not selling it... at least not without disclosing its problems)

jahwarrior
February 5, 2010, 11:20 AM
Just get a G26, you don't want to loose your life to a jam(it will happen, after all, it's a Keltec)) when a punk with a Hi Point(a much more reliable weapon) empties his mag into you.


another clown who's never owned a Keltec, or a Hi Point.

i've had two Keltecs in my stable, a PF9 and a P3AT. both were reliable, and more accurate than i thought possible. i wouldn't hesitate to trust my life to their guns. i trust them more than i trust Kimbers; i've heard too many horror stories from people i know personally who own them, and have had to put money into them to get them to run.

Mike J
February 5, 2010, 11:25 AM
I have a P-11 that I had some minor problems with early on. They are resolved & it is a neat little gun. ktog.org is a great resouce for the kel-tec products. Kel Tec will take care of you if you can't get it figured out.

hardluk1
February 5, 2010, 11:34 AM
I have 2 handguns that i rotate between as carry guns. The last couple weeks i have tried to shoot the pf-9 more and with out cleaning as i am carry'n the other gun . So far 250+ rounds of several different brands of fmj ammo over 3 weeks and NO problems. Now i have not shot a single round for winchest and wieght of bullets stay between 115gr and 124 gr . Mine is a rg serial number gun. All i ever use for lub is break free as a general cleaner lub and a bench rest grease( fro got the name ,GOLD something) on part of the rails, barrel and hammer wear surface.

MCgunner
February 5, 2010, 11:43 AM
Just get a G26, you don't want to loose your life to a jam(it will happen, after all, it's a Keltec)) when a punk with a Hi Point(a much more reliable weapon) empties his mag into you

I reckon MY KT will out shoot your G26 and I won't get Glock Leg like Plaxico trying to carry it. :rolleyes:

Girodin
February 5, 2010, 11:48 AM
I reckon MY KT will out shoot your G26 and I won't get Glock Leg like Plaxico trying to carry it.

If you handled your KT the way Plaxico handled his glock you would. That was operator error and nothing more.

huduguru
February 5, 2010, 03:18 PM
jahwarrior, you say my opinion doesn't matter because I haven't owned
a Keltec(owned two p-11's actually, both rubbish) or a Hi Point(I haven't) but go on to spout how horrible Kimbers are even though you haven't owned one?

I didn't call you anything, but you called me a clown. I say you are a fool
because you contradicted yourself. You also make assumptions that aren't true(I haven't owned one). A clown is better than a fool anyday. :)

I'm sure there is such a thing as a reliable Keltec(at least for a few rounds
anyway) but I would bet $10000 that my Glock 26 would fire many more rounds than any Keltec before it had a stoppage.

saturno_v
February 5, 2010, 05:28 PM
but I would bet $10000 that my Glock 26 would fire many more rounds than any Keltec before it had a stoppage.

If the Glock does not kaboom before that....;)

Happy P-11 owner here, never had a problem.

Never owned a Kimber and I will never buy one...I just saw my fair share of pimped up Kimber 1911 malfunctioning at the range and heard of people pissed off at their CS to try my luck at a $1000 lottery ticket...thanks but no thanks.

For some when a Kel-Tec jam it's "rubbish" when a Kimber does it's just "breaking in" (like the ridiculous claim some people make that you need to have a 500 round breakin in period) or just a bit finicky with ammo selection....funny how powerful marketing psychology is.....

huduguru
February 5, 2010, 05:53 PM
Their is no tactical equivalency of a Kimber and a Keltec. Why does
Kimber keep being brought up? A g26 and a Keltec might be fairly
close in design philosophy(that's about it, though). The breaking in period
of Kimbers is no more ridiculous than "fluff and buff" and break in for Kel Tecs
that's recommended on "fanboy" (to use someone's term here) website KTOG.


By the way saturno, it's the .40 cal. Glocks that Kaboom, not
the 9's. :D

Enachos
February 5, 2010, 06:06 PM
...My glock 27 hasn't "kaboomed" yet if that means anything

saturno_v
February 5, 2010, 06:07 PM
Their is no tactical equivalency of a Kimber and a Keltec. Why does
Kimber keep being brought up? A g26 and a Keltec might be fairly
close in design philosophy(that's about it, though). The breaking in period
of Kimbers is no more ridiculous than "fluff and buff" and break in for Kel Tecs
that's recommended on "fanboy" (to use someone's term here) website KTOG.




I agree, obviously, that they are totally different handguns and philosophies...I was just commenting on different attitude towards a gun that malfunction that some people have depending on the brand.

I hever had to have a fluff and buff procedure in my P-11 and it always performed flawlessy for me and many other KT owners....and many that come to the range are LE officers that use them as backup guns so they trust them a lot.

I would never ever buy a Glock, I cannot stomach their aestethics and their ridiculous (IMHO) trigger an safety system and in that price range I can buy a very good full metal construction pistol...however I respect them a lot, they are generally reliable and accurate.

The occasional lemon can happen to any manufacturer so I would be careful before using the label "rubbish" too quickly.

huduguru
February 5, 2010, 06:11 PM
Rubbish is appropriate in my case, I'm 0-2 with Keltecs. I see so
many complaints with the brand also on many forums, besides
Mimber, of course. :)

saturno_v
February 5, 2010, 06:20 PM
It's you choice and i respect that..I hope at least you tried to fix the problem with their excellent CS department before giving it up.

Many people swear that EAA (Tanfoglio) pistols are very good...my experience and that one of many others was horrible (malfunctioning of every nature) and their CS is a joke.....and Customer Service is really what, in the end, make or break a company.

I never heard the same amount of complain about Kel-Tecs that I did with EAA.

There are people that had issues with Glock too...and not one or two

SSN Vet
February 5, 2010, 06:49 PM
My abc is bigger than your xyz ...

and I'm cooler than you are.

No wonder gun grabbing liberals make hay in the sun painting gun people as ignoramuses

:rolleyes:

huduguru
February 5, 2010, 07:05 PM
SSN, in case you haven't noticed, this is a gun forum. Comparisons(and opinions) between various brands is vigorously encouraged.

Don't get me wrong, I like the design philosophy of the PF-9, but
with the primary purpose being self defense(the P-11 also) the demonstrated
poor reliability of Keltecs leaves me thinking, what a great idea with
very poor execution(qc and the lack of reliability, specifically).

Now if Ruger would just copy that PF-9(without the hokey extractor spring), sign me up! :D

kokapelli
February 5, 2010, 07:14 PM
I had a PF9 but didn't like it because it was too loose for my taste and compared to my PM9 it was very punishing to shoot, but I have to say it never failed to function in anyway.

wnycollector
February 6, 2010, 12:00 PM
I just passed the 500 round mark with my PF-9. I went to my outdoor range today and it was a balmy 16F with a 15mph cross wind:) I went through 100 rounds of magtech 147gr JHP with only one problem. On my last mag, I was shooting one handed with my weak hand and I limp wristed badly. The PF-9 failed to chamber the next round. The upside of that was I was able to practice my tap, rack, bang drill. While it was not pleasant to shoot in those conditions, I think its a testament to my PF-9's reliability. Shooting in those conditions is tough on any gun let alone a sub 1lb pocket nine.

While some have gotten a lemon for Kel-tec, I'm two for two with gems from them.

F1
February 6, 2010, 07:37 PM
The Kel-Tec company should have been shut down long ago. If they were making cars like that they would have been. Their lack of quality control combined with cheap components might be semi-excusable if their guns were intended for idle plinking, but they are not. Their guns are made for one purpose alone, self defense, that is emergency use in life and death situations.

F1
February 6, 2010, 07:39 PM
As you can see from the above posts, some of their guns seem to work well for some people, but many of their guns do not work well at all. I would never trust a Kel-tec.

F1
February 6, 2010, 07:42 PM
"Now if Ruger would just copy that PF-9(without the hokey extractor spring), sign me up!"

Me too, and maybe they are working on it right now. They copied their 380 and made it work.

atblis
February 6, 2010, 07:53 PM
The Kel-Tec company should have been shut down long ago. If they were making cars like that they would have been. Their lack of quality control combined with cheap components might be semi-excusable if their guns were intended for idle plinking, but they are not. Their guns are made for one purpose alone, self defense, that is emergency use in life and death situations.
You're really using cars for a comparison?

Love or hate Keltec
A) They make things that others don't
B) Their customer service is good
C) Their prices are very low
D) Sometimes their stuff works just fine (sometimes not so much).

F1
February 6, 2010, 08:05 PM
The owner of Kel-Tec, George Kellgren, formerly made a now orphaned lemon of a gun called Grendel. He dumped that and started KT in '95. Try to find parts for your Grendel now. KT has an internet forum that appears to be run by company shills. They quickly ban folks who voice complaints.

Pyzon
February 6, 2010, 08:40 PM
Try to find parts for your Grendel now

Try to find parts for your Studebaker, Rambler, Simca, Morris Minor, Datsun........

Keltec works for me, I've received better customer service than Kimber and even S&W, and all five of mine work without a hitch.

The Keltec owners forum is also pretty active and enjoyable also.

Shadow 7D
February 6, 2010, 09:30 PM
How many KT do you own F1?

I have 3 right now, and I love buying other peoples lemons, esp the ones with a company like KT behind them. Only managed to snag one a cheap price so far, but I'm always looking out. KT are a great sub 300 gun, they don't have the fit and finish that you might find on a $3k gun, but they tend to work, pretty well, my P32 has performed flawlessly (except for a Promag 10 round mag) and it is the smallest, lightest pistol, disappears in my pocket, and yes, you do have to make a trade off.

billdeserthills
February 6, 2010, 09:35 PM
You can always send it into Kel-Tec, say I just got my old first generation P3AT
.380 acp gun back last week, it only took about 3 months!

w_houle
February 6, 2010, 09:36 PM
How many KT do you own F1?
I don't think there's much of anything you're going to tell him that will change his mind.
I've had more real life firearm experience than 99% of the people here
I know it's from a different thread, but this tells me that he's here to teach us, and not learn...

F1
February 7, 2010, 01:46 PM
Houle - Looks like you went to a lot of trouble looking through my old posts here in order to try to find something bad to say about me. Was that the best you could come up with?

"I know it's from a different thread, but this tells me that he's here to teach us, and not learn..."

What are you fantasizing that you're a teacher and I'm sitting in your classroom? I'm commenting on an internet forum, that's all.

How come so many of you Kel-Tec shills are tossing around and misusing scriptural quotes, like that creep on the Kel-Tec forum who posts a picture of Jesus selling Winchesters as his signature, or are you all one and the same guy, Mister Kellgren perhaps?

MachIVshooter
February 7, 2010, 02:11 PM
The Kel-Tec company should have been shut down long ago. If they were making cars like that they would have been.

Ahahahhaha.

Ford has an open recall on millions of cars for burning to the ground due to cruise control electronics. Toyota is doing the same because theirs are rear-ending other cars all by themselves when the throttle by wire freaks out. GM's new power steering system is so full of hiccups it's almost unbelievable. And these are just the problems that are big enough for a recall.

Trust me, friend, if cars were anywhere near as reliable and unconditionally warranted against defect as KT firearms, I'd be out of a job.

Looks like you went to a lot of trouble looking through my old posts here in order to try to find something bad to say about me. Was that the best you could come up with?

He didn't have to look very hard. It's on the first page. And that's an extremely bold and arrogant statement to make here, bound to be viewed with hostile skepticism. This board is not comprised of a random sampling of the population; there are plenty of members here with decades of experience using literally hundreds (if not thousands) of different firearms. I'm an avid shooter, hunter and collector who spends way too much time handling, discussing and researching guns, and I have a pretty substantial personal collection. but I would never dream of making such an assertion here.

F1
February 7, 2010, 02:48 PM
"Trust me, friend, if cars were anywhere near as reliable and unconditionally warranted against defect as KT firearms, I'd be out of a job."

No, I don't think so. If brakes failed 50% of the time, or 25% of the time, or 10% of the time, or whatever it is, whatever your job is you'd be out of it. Brakes are life and death, and so is a defensive weapon.

OK, the 99% was no doubt an an exaggeration, but there are also a lot of beginners on here, and I have many years of law enforcement experience working mostly in some of the worst slums in the world with some of the worst criminals in the world, hundreds of arrests, shootings, you name it.

A gun is a tool, not a religious experience. A person should be able to critique a tool without rousing the ire of religious zealots.

Shadow 7D
February 7, 2010, 03:11 PM
F1
who are you shilling for, the point of this thread was to offer some advice as to how to correct a problem, the Kel Tecs happen to have some, and SURPRISE these are old, and easy to correct problems that are well covered by the internet. Think 1911 extractor tuning, or bad ramp jobs, things that you know and in the kel tec, they are correctable (unlike many 1911 problems) by any half way competent handi man (or woman).

So my point is, don't be too offended when you come here flaming a gun (read the forum rules stickied at the top) and someone points out that you haven't added to the post.

To the OP, have you got it fixed yet?

wnycollector
February 7, 2010, 04:21 PM
Gents, lets remember what THR is an acronym for The High Road! IMOO this thread has become less about fixing a problem that a fellow member had with his pistol than about bashing and then defending Kel-Tec. I am as guilty as anyone since my last post was a defense of Kel-tec products. Lets hope that Harmon Rabb has fixed his PF-9 before a Mod locks this thread!

Nasty
February 7, 2010, 04:37 PM
Not joining the dog pile, but...

I was a small arms instructor for over 15 years in the USAF (SAMTU)...I still sometimes help out on the different ranges I go to when I see something I can help with.

I saw this problem once...the guy was firing at 7 yards...looked new but was doing okay as he worked through what looked to me to be a bit of nervousness. He had no firing issues for the first 20-30 rounds, but then (in my opinion) started to relax as he gained confidence...and started to get FTE's. He fiddled a bit, tried again, got a few, relaxed and started getting failures again.

Yup...as he relaxed, he started limp wristing. I offered some tips on grip, breath control, etc...finished out his range session with no further failures.

Just saying...it's a possibility. Hope it helps.

harmon rabb
February 7, 2010, 05:55 PM
Limp wristing is definitely not the issue. After I experienced a jam, I'd make sure to hold on extra tight to ensure limp wristing was not the issue, and I still experienced the FTE's.

w_houle
February 7, 2010, 07:56 PM
Limp wristing is definitely not the issue. After I experienced a jam, I'd make sure to hold on extra tight to ensure limp wristing was not the issue, and I still experienced the FTE's.
I don't know how to explain it, but a death grip and uber locked wrist aren't the problem either. I don't know how to explain it, but I'm becoming of the mind that these small pistols take a certain... for lack of a better word; finesse, to shoot. I am not totally in understanding as to what it takes, but it has taken me a while to start to figure it out. Just keep after it, and either it will go away, or will become evident to the cause.

harmon rabb
February 7, 2010, 08:34 PM
I don't know how to explain it, but a death grip and uber locked wrist aren't the problem either. I don't know how to explain it, but I'm becoming of the mind that these small pistols take a certain... for lack of a better word; finesse, to shoot. I am not totally in understanding as to what it takes, but it has taken me a while to start to figure it out. Just keep after it, and either it will go away, or will become evident to the cause.

I own a LCP, which has been 100% since day 1, so I wouldn't think it's a lack of experience with mouse guns :)

Shadow 7D
February 7, 2010, 11:34 PM
How are the rails, alot of the F&B is smoothing the rail and slide mating, buffing out the machining striations, also you can get a pretty ruff chamber, both could slow down the slide, also make sure you don't have a bur on the slide.

As for limp wristing, hasn't been a problem with my P11, but I have to work on shooting my P40, if I try a 3 shot rapid fire I jam by the 3 round, sometimes second, pounds the bejeezits out of my hand.

joe_security
February 8, 2010, 02:41 PM
In spite of all the bashing, I am thinking of trying a P32 because it fits the bill for a true pocket pistol. And from a $ stand point, I wont be sticking my neck out too far. And I expect less blast and recoil than a .380 cal.

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