[Carbonator]

If you were to own only one firearm to be used for CCW, home defense, backpacking, car gun, etc... which would you choose? Either would be an everything/always gun, shot little.

The next year or so I'll own only one gun, and I really like both. Pretty much a tie, maybe you can convince me to go one or the other...
http://www.kahr.com/images/pm9094.gif
http://www.smith-wesson.com/products/firearms/images/standard/sw163061.jpg

[Oleg Volk]

Test-fire both and decide. Personally, I found the recoil of 342PD (similar to your 340) so painful, even with target loads, that I got rid of it after five shots. My bias is in favor of the Kahr.

[5pins]

Since you have backpacking on the list I would go for the 340PD. I’m not a big fan of the 9MM in the woods.

[Carbonator]

I'd use 38 +p HP's in the 340pd for regular CCW, and .357 FMJ for outside/camping, so recoil shouldn't be quite as bad with the .38 loads.

Kahr is really impressing me with their line of guns and reputation!

[Chuck Perry]

340PD. While I'm not thrilled with either for your inteded purposes, my gut would be to go with the 357 over the 9. I don't think there is a gun out there that can handle both everyday urban carry, and offer sufficient performance for wild game protection.

[Sean Smith]

Do you really like SHOOTING the 340PD? Something good to know before you consider buying one. :D

I wouldn't recommend either choice to anybody as their only all-around gun. Too light, too small, too little sight radius, too much recoil. And having your only gun be something you don't plan on shooting much is a bad idea anyway.

[mini14jac]

Since you said "shot little" I put the revolver as my choice.
I have the PM9, and love it.
If you're not going to shoot your gun much, the revolver would be the better choice as you wouldn't have to worry about finding the right ammo, and other semi-auto quirks.

I don't enjoy shooting an aluminum S&W, so I'm betting the Scandium/Titanium guns would be downright painful.
The PM9, on the other hand, is very pleasant to shoot.

[williegee]

Have you considered a stainless steel revolver like a S&W 3" Model 60.
It's not as light as the 340PD but those extra ounces make it a lot more manageable when firing magnum loads. You will have the option of either using .38 or .357 , adjustable sights, and the extra inch of barrel gives you a full length extractor rod to help speed up reloads. It's small enough to conceal and can also double as a house gun. Just my $0.02.

[tiberius]

The S&W is the more versital pistol, so would be a better choice as an only gun. The magic green glow from the Kahr may force me to change my mind however. :)

[Carbonator]

With either gun, I'll be shooting at the range once a month or so. Small and light weight is a big factor for me. I don't want to not carry because the gun is too large or heavy. I want to always always always carry out of habit and not think twice about it. Plus mountain camping and hiking is better with light weight packing.

*As a side note, the .357 round is more of a turn off for me because of the loudness, not because of the recoil problem. I don't want my dog/s.o./myself to lose hearing. That's why I choose the .357 round for outdoor activities only.

[Sean Smith]

Out of curiosity, how much experience do you have shooting handguns? Have you owned one before? That stuff would have alot to do with what is or isn't a wise choice for you.

[10-Ring]

I prefer the versaility of the 357 magnum over the 9mm but I like the poly frame over the ultra light wheelgun. I'd go w/ the shootability of the poly framed Kahr in this case just because I'd like to be able to put some rounds through it w/o developing a bad flinch :what:

[Carbonator]

Sean - I've been shooting for 15 years, but the past 8 years were no shooting because I lived in an area that banned guns altogether. Now I'm slowly getting back into it. I've shot the Glocks and snubbies before so I'm pretty familiar with both styles. Have not shot a scandium though. I take everyone's opinon about the recoil though.

[Sean Smith]

OK, that changes things a bit. For a new shooter to want to start with those guns would be pure insanity.

As a side note, folks who shoot lots of .44 Magnums for fun consider .357s out of the little Scandium revolvers to be pure evil in the blast and recoil department. Something to keep in mind. If you like the little 'Smith revolvers, you might want to consider the .38 Special versions, or the fractionally heavier non-Scandium models.

[pytron]

<rant>Is it just me, or does the S&W wheelgun look silly? Why do they have that atomic-looking symbol on the side? Why do they put white writing on a perfectly good looking black gun? Even Glock gets that right. At least they didn't print "READ INSTRUCTIONS BEFORE USING" on the side.</rant>

I like the polymer frame and semi-autos in general but the simplicity of the revolver has its appeal. Both are pretty well much matched. I can't issue an opinion since I haven't shot an S&W Airweight, so I don't know how well it'd work. With full house .357 loads I'd guess it'd be a handful.

-Pytron

[tbeb]

I would choose the Kahr PM9.

The 340PD is too light a gun for launching .357 magnum ammo. I have shot 158 gr. bullets doing 800 fps from a 12 1/2 oz. revolver and that's a handful. So as I see it you'll end up using 38 special ammunition.

The Kahr holds more rounds than the snub revolver. 9mm is more powerful than .38 special.

(For pocket carry I "wanted" a PM9. I ended up with a 16 ounce .38 special revolver because I thought the PM9 was too much $$$.)

[wardog]

I have also looked at both of these, but only for defense against 2 legged critters. I haven't shot the .357 Scandium, but I think it would be a real handful. I was looking at the Aluminum frame .38 (model 640 I think) concealed hammer model. It is only a couple of ounces heavier, and a lot cheaper. It was $338. The PM9 $500. I am leaning towards the PM9.

[JNewell]

Aww, I like the little nuke logo. It looks so...fifties! ;) What the heck it's doing on these revolvers, though, who knows?

Carbonator, you might try before you buy, if possible. I think that .38 +Ps out of these revolvers are pretty harsh. It's not so much that the recoil is heavy, but that it's fast. Having said that, I think the revo is more flexible than the autoloader across a spectrum of uses.

One thing to think about is that if you plan to shoot lighter loads, another reason to get a 342 or equivalent is that with the Ti cylinder you'll be a lot better off with .38s in a .38 cylinder. (Obviously, if you handload light .357s that is not an issue.) The reason is that the Ti cylinders need to be more carefully cleaned than steel.

[Carbonator]

Black DLC PM9 $616. 15.9 oz.

340pd $623. 12 oz.

That's online pricing. At local shops I think it was about the same range.

The PM9 can also use 6, 7, or 8 round magazines.

I need both. :evil:

Can only have one. Discipline. Discipline. Disci....

[Shmackey]

As a side note, folks who shoot lots of .44 Magnums for fun consider .357s out of the little Scandium revolvers to be pure evil in the blast and recoil department.

Yes. Someone at my range let me shoot their scandium airlite while I was shooting my Model 29. I shot either one or two rounds out of the airlite and put it down. Forever.

[N3rday]

If ur a hunter, go with the magnum.

I personally think that autoloaders simply look cooler and have less parts in them (Yes, revolver on average DO have 10 or more parts than an autoloader, theyr just hidden)

Whatever your preference is, but if I only had one gun for all purposed it would be a .357 magnum

My final words: As an all purpose gun they r too small. I'd go with a 3-4" barrel on a .357 b/c u can shoot better with it but u can still ccw if u really have to.

[Alan Fud]

I have to agree with Oleg on this that the 340 has a considerable kick to it even when firing .38special loads out of it. Additionally, I'm not to fond of the lite trigger pull on the Kahr since it doesn't have a safety. Owning both of them ...
http://fud-files.netfirms.com/image/private/guns/f60.jpg
... I would not recommend either one as being my first choice. Instead, if it is an auto 9mm that you want, I would recommend the S&W 3913 ...
http://fud-files.netfirms.com/image/private/guns/f64.jpg
... slightly bigger than the Kahr but still on the compact side. If, it's a lite weight revolver that you're interested in, I would recommend the 332 ...
http://fud-files.netfirms.com/image/private/guns/f22.jpg
... same size & weight but shoots the less powerful .32magnum which isn't as effective as a .38special but it has managable recoil which will help you put the bullets where you want them to go. If it's a small .357maganum that you want, then consider the all-steel 640 ...
http://fud-files.netfirms.com/image/private/guns/f73.jpg

[Gordon Fink]

Of your choices, I would have to go with the PM9, as it is easier to shoot than an ultralight revolver. However, why not consider the K9 instead? Even easier to shoot, higher capacity, and still very concealable—especially for a “right-to-carry” state.

~G. Fink

[mini14jac]

As I posted above, I voted for the revolver, but for my own use, I struggled with the same choices that you did.
I picked the PM9.
It is very easy to drop in your pocket and forget.

I don't know if it's still there, but at one time S&W had a link on their site to a review of the Scandium .357.
The reviewer stated that shooting .357 magnum loads in the gun was like "being whacked in the hand with an ax handle". :uhoh:
I'm pretty sure my quote is accurate, because you don't forget a description that is that colorful.

[MrPink]

Well, I own and carry the 340PD. I wouldn't call it an "everything gun" or an "if-I could-only-have-one gun". For that, it would probably be a 1911 Government in say 10mm. But the 340 makes a nice gun to pretty much always have around: light, small and softly shaped.

That being said, the 340 will give you more ammo versatility. I usually carry mine with light 357s and even that is a bear to shoot. 38 Specials are OK, +P a little less so, light 357s tolerable but not fun at the range for 10 rounds but full house 357s are downright nasty and painful.

If you go for the 340 do yourself a favor and get a pair of Craig Spegel boot grips. With the high-ride Centennial cut, they help distribute the recoil force across the web of the hand.

[Carbonator]

Thanks for the pics Alan. That's some collection you have! I like that all steel 640. That'd make a great house gun for me, and I like steel for everything but CCW. I just wish I had your problem - deciding which gun to take! :D

[outfieldjack]

I got mine for $549 NIB at the gun here in Columbia SC. It is a bear to shoot, but I feel I have "enough gun" as far as CWP is goes... It is light and easy to conceal.

http://home.sc.rr.com/jackswebsite/340.htm

[outfieldjack]

I got mine for $549 NIB at the gunshow here in Columbia SC. It is a bear to shoot, but I feel I have "enough gun" as far as CWP is goes... It is light and easy to conceal.

http://home.sc.rr.com/jackswebsite/Jacks/sm340.JPG

[Carbonator]

outfieldjack- that 342's a real nice pick. 10.8 ounces...


PM9 sure made a comeback - had 20% of the vote, now closing in on 50%. Interesting....

:scrutiny:

[DMK]

I'd go with the Kahr.

I'm not a big fan of .357 in such a small package. I know it's good for some people, but I can't control it reliably.

[chaim]

Normally I'd say a .38 or better a .357 for a one gun situation with 9mm a close second, but with your options I'd go for the 9mm Kahr. The snub .357mag is going to be too light for most people to shoot magnums out of it, a lightweight .357 is torture. If you were looking at a lightweight .38 or steel .357 then maybe it would be ok (this will be your only gun for a while, is it your first gun). For an only gun you'd be better off with a steel 2.5" or 3" K-frame. A bit heavy, not suitable for pocket carry, but more than acceptable for IWB or OWB carry. A steel framed .38 J-frame would be acceptable as well (not too hard to control nor unpleasant to shoot) and it is just barely light enough for pocket carry.

[Brasso]

If this was going to be an everyday ccw gun then I would opt for the 340, as it simply disapears in the front pocket. But, if this is going to be an "only" gun, then I think the 9mm offers more versatility for more situations and has a little more firepower than a 340 with .38's. I really don't see anyone shooting .357's out of one with any control. I had a 340 and sold it because I needed the money at the time. I loved that little revolver. I would suggest you give serious consideration to a separate ccw and woods gun. Perhaps a 340 or pm9 for everyday carry and a gp100 for the woods.

[chaim]

I think Brasso is on to something. Without going too far over your budget (possibly without going over it at all) you can get two guns and be better prepared for all your criteria.

I think S&W still has the sale going on their aluminum 637 and 642 (airweight, aluminium alloy, .38spl snubs). If so you can get one for around $350-400. That should be well under what the PM9 or 340 would cost you. The .38spl, especially in +P loadings, should be suitable for self-defense, and the barely heavier aluminium gun and the .38 loading should be far more controllable than the 340. Then with the savings you can look for a K-frame .38 or (better for woods use) .357mag. You can probably still find a good used K-frame .357 for $250-300 (less if you are lucky). The K-frame would be far more controllable with magnum loads, and in a longer barrel you will get more out of the caliber (.38spl+P for HD, .357mag for woods, and in both the longer barrel gives it a little more "ommph" and makes the HP more likely to open).

[Carbonator]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Gonna go out to the range this week and shoot some. Found a 342pd to rent, and some airweights but no PM9 or 340pd. Guess I'll just pick to closest ones I can find...

:)

[Rich357]

I have a 340SC (same as a PD, but light in color). I've shot a Kahr PM9. I'm quicker and more accurate with follow up shots using the Kahr PM9. The S&W 340SC is an interesting revolver but I don't find it fun to take to the range, and I'm not overly recoil sensitive. I'm also faster and more accurate with follow up shots using a Glock 33 and G29.

You should consider how much bang (muzzle energy) you are getting for your buck (recoil), when shooting a hot .38 Special or .357Mag from a 2" barreled revolver.

Maybe the Kahr PM40 or P40 would fit your needs better than the 9mm Kahrs?

Depending on what I have for lunch and how much water I drink my weight
can easily change a dozen or more ounces. What's the point of carring an ultra light handgun if you aren't going to be effective with it when it really counts?

Good luck,
Rich

[BluesBear]

n3rday wrote:
I personally think that autoloaders simply look cooler and have less parts in them (Yes, revolver on average DO have 10 or more parts than an autoloader, theyr just hidden)

Oooookay, :scrutiny:

How many parts are there in a;

S&W Model 40
S&W 5904
S&W 1917
Colt 1911A1
Colt Python
Colt Detective Special
Colt Single Action Army
Ruger Security Six
Ruger P97
Ruger Supr Blackhawk
Beretta M10
Browning HiPower

Which one has the most parts?
Which one has the least?

[WonderNine]

Ok, I'm only going to list the bad things, because that's what sticks out in my mind in general regarding modern defensive guns. Here's my take:

PM9:

Frame problems. Peening and warping. Never addressed fully by Kahr. Feed problems with PM9's also seem ALOT more common than any of Kahr's other models.

I would think this has something to do with the short slide, but the MK9 doesn't seem to suffer from even a quarter the complaints the PM9 does regarding feed and function issues.

Older Kahr magazines have a bad reputation.

340PD:

MIM parts from what I understand. Will somebody correct me on this if I'm not right? But I believe S&Sellout uses alot of MIM parts in their new guns right, or am I having illusions? I really like the idea of a 12oz .357 tiny snub, but if there are a hint of MIM parts in this little gun for $600!!! count me out.

Very loud. .357's out of a snub are very loud even in medium velocity variations and in medium velocity offer no benefits over +p 9mm while full house .357's out of a snub will shatter your eardrums indoors (while producing EXTREMELY negligable benefits over +p+ 9mm and you'll be speaking sign language for the rest of your life.

Post Clinton Agreement Gun - draw your own conclusions.

[James Bondrock]

Given those choices, I would prefer the Kahr pistol. I found my S&W 640-1 .357 quite a handful with full-power loads, and this is a steel gun that weighs twice as much as the scandium/titanium Smith. The Kahr is not only close in height and length to the revolver, but it is flatter in profile due to not having a cylinder bulge. And the 9mm cartridge suffers proportionately much less velocity loss from its 3-inch barrel (about 2 1/8 inches of actual rifled bore) than .38s and .357s from the same length barrel, so it would have superior ballistics to any .38 load. While it would not quite equal the .357 loads, it would have much less flash, blast and recoil. In the revolver's favor, its rounded contours are easier to draw from carry modes that hold the gun tight to the body (e.g., pocket holsters). I still have reservations about the littlest plastic Kahr vis a vis its durability and cycle reliability, but it seems to generally get good reviews.

[WonderNine]

Before you read the rest of this post let me say that a full house .41 magnum out of a ported (they're all ported in titanium) Taurus 415T is the loudest gun I have ever fired. Hearing protection? What's that? I couldn't hear the Space Shuttle Atlantis taking off next to me after firing a few dozen rounds through that gun.




I've fired quite a few hundred .41 magnum 210gr. full house factory loads out of a 19oz. titanium Taurus 415T .41 mag (Remington and Federal with the same specs as their factory .44 magnum)....(AND yes you're going to say I'm a masochist :) ), and although I've never fired full house .357 out of a Scandium revolver, nor have I fired a Scandium revolver AT ALL I can't imagine it would be much more than half as bad regarding recoil. The noise however will be very close.

These are up close weapons and I was able to keep the 415T fairly on target rapid firing at about 15 yards (not feet).

The biggest drawback IMO of the .357 snubs is the deafening noise with flash a distant second.

The noise is why I will never carry a .357 snub or any other .357 weapon with full power loads ever again.

[BluesBear]

I carried a S&W M40 for over 10 years and found it very controlable with +p loads. Of course I was using Pachmayr grips.

I have shot a friends 640 quite a bit and it is rather painful with max .357 mag loads. Anyone who'd fire max loads in a 340 is a glutton for punishment. I have a M60 but am looking hard at a 640 or 649.

In my M60 I only carry a .357 as the last round.. I figure if I get that far I need all the thump I can get. I bought the .357 version of the 60 because I know I don't have to worry about beating it up with +p.

With the revolver I can use a good exposed lead HP to get penetration with expansion and not have to worry about feeding.

Beside when the balloon goes up you don't pay any attention to that muzzle blast.* But the BGs will.


*Yes, I know this for a fact !

[WonderNine]

Beside when the balloon goes up you don't pay any attention to that muzzle blast.* But the BGs will.

True, but your hearing will suffer. Regardless off all the talk about "auditory exclusion" and not hearing the rounds you fire, your ears will still take the same damage regardless of what you "don't hear" because of it, and in some instances, you will be lucky if you ever hear again.

[denfoote]

Keep the Kahr.
With the revolver, you are limited to just whats in the chambers.
With the autoloader, you have the option of carrying spare magazines. As you well know, you can get eight round mags for the Kahr.
The lure of firepower should be enough to sway you!!

[BluesBear]

My hearing is still above average thank you very much.

When it comes to life loss or hearing loss which will you prefer?

[WonderNine]

When it comes to life loss or hearing loss which will you prefer?

Yea, I hear that everytime I make an arguement against .357 snubs vs. 9mm, but the .357 snub offers no advantage so why make yourself deaf?

[BluesBear]

Why my snub and not your mini 9mm popgun? :D


Because I can launch a 158gr HP-SWC and you can't.
Because I can launch a 148gr CWBH and you can't.
Because I can launch a 160gr Keith linotype and you can't.
Because I can launch 3 #000 buck and you can't. :neener:


Real reason #1 Because I have already have one.

Real reason #2 Because I am very, Very, VERY good with it. :cool:

[Border]

I'd get the 342PD and put some good +P ammo in it. Save money. The 340PD if you psychologically need to have some MAGNUM stuff in your pocket but I always thing those boys are trying to compensate for something! :D Shot placement matters more. I do shoot mine regularly and +P .38's are enough thankyou!! (And they are for those who pretend to themselves that they can handle more in such a lightweight gun)!

For PD, in the slim likelihood that you'll ever have to use it, it will likely be not more than pointing the gun. I like revolvers because even these "weekend tactical warriors" might well forget to flick their automatic's safety off in the extreme adrenaline flood of an actual life threatening encounter no matter how cool they THINK they are! For animals, well, anything that is intent on killing you will in my opinion particularly with those two choices but pretty much with any other pistol too in my opinion. For the most likely encounter there the noise alone of any gun will be enough!

[Texas Bob]

I voted for the PM9 only because I did what others have talked about and fired both to see what works for me. With either choice you'll be OK in the urban jungle if you practic on a regular basis. As far as "the outback", what do you think you will encounter? If you run into a dangerous four legged animal your choices are a "Hail Mary" and "The Alamo", with the guns you selected. If you are worried about hiking and rounding a corner only to interupt a drug deal or the people who prey on someone they know can't call for help then the pistol you are the most practiced with and have the most personal convidence in is the right choice.