Okay, What happened to "Best Nines" website?


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Hobbesbuff
February 4, 2010, 09:06 PM
I can't reach it, always states the "404 not found"!

Liked that for comparisons and quick links to reviews and manufacturers' websites.

Anybody know what happened?:confused:

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lions
February 4, 2010, 10:28 PM
I believe this is what you're looking for.

http://www.best9mm.com/index.html

johnnylaw53
February 6, 2010, 07:47 AM
That was a good link Lions but while reading it I seen that beretta is going to phase out the 92fs does anyone know if this is true?

be safe

gwnorth
February 6, 2010, 09:17 AM
At SHOT, Beretta just introduced their 92A1 (sort of a combination of the 92FS and 90-two designs), but their press release just said these would be "joining" the existing line of pistols, not replacing them. I think they have military contracts for the M9 for some time to come yet, so I doubt the 92FS will disappear anytime soon. Besides, there are tons of great used ones around all the time.

christcorp
February 6, 2010, 12:57 PM
Gotta love how the Hi-Point C-9 is in the top 25, yet there are so many snobs that think if the gun didn't cost at least $300+, then it's junk. I'll tell you what. I'll sell my C-9 to anyone who wants it for $325. This way they can feel better about themselves thinking that it's a better gun than they thought it was. :)

StarDust1
February 6, 2010, 01:46 PM
Gotta love how the Hi-Point C-9 is in the top 25, yet there are so many snobs that think if the gun didn't cost at least $300+, then it's junk. I'll tell you what. I'll sell my C-9 to anyone who wants it for $325. This way they can feel better about themselves thinking that it's a better gun than they thought it was. :)
Hi-points are JUNK, and it's got nothing to do with price, for $325.00 you could aquire a Ruger 9mm pistol which is largely JUNK itself, but much better JUNK then the POS Hi-point...

verdun59
February 6, 2010, 07:31 PM
Wow StarDust1, that's getting it all out.

christcorp
February 6, 2010, 07:37 PM
Hi-points are JUNK, and it's got nothing to do with price, for $325.00 you could aquire a Ruger 9mm pistol which is largely JUNK itself, but much better JUNK then the POS Hi-point...
Unfortunately my friend, you don't know too much about Hi-Points. Instead of debating, I'll just ask you 2 questions.

1. Which hi-point did you own, and what problem did you have with it?
2. If none is the answer to #1; then who's hi-point did you shoot, how much ammo, and what problem did you have with it.

If none is the answer to #2, then you definitely have no idea what you're talking about. Which happens to be probably the case for more than 90% of the comments by people who say Hi-Points are junk. So which is it. If your answer is NONE to either of my questions, then you might as well not even reply, because your opinion won't mean anything to me. I own SigSauer, Dan Wesson, Springfield Armory, Walther, CZ, FEG, and many other guns. Some are in the $1000 - $1500 price range. So when I decided I wanted to have an opinion of Hi-Point, Jennings, Bryco, Davis, Cobra, Phoenix, and other "Cheap" guns, I put my money where my mouth is. And yes, some of those are definitely "Cheap" guns. Some, to the point of dangerous. But Hi-Point isn't a cheap gun. It's an "Inexpensive" gun; but there's a big difference between "Cheap" and "Inexpensive".

So, if you want to talk smack, then answer yes to my 2 questions. Not sure if I would buy your answer anyway, because a person who actually owned one most times says that they are ugly, heavy, bulky, and feel like crap. But they always go bang and they are very reliable. And if they didn't like them for the aesthetic reasons, that's cool. But they would say so. So, what is your expertise in this matter?

3leggeddog
February 7, 2010, 12:43 PM
In my 65 years ,I've never read or heard of any LE personal carrying a HI-point! Why is that if there so dependable? Try answering the question with out being so "abrasive" like you was to the last man!
Note : I only know of 3 people who have owned one ,one is a 9MM for the truck, the other 2 fellows had .40 which they got rid of FAST.
I for one would hope /pray, my sons if going into a war, would have a .45 Springfield ,NOT the High Point. Which would you want your son to take??
Just some food for thought, have a good day!

Girodin
February 7, 2010, 01:57 PM
A hi point will go bang but that is not the end of evaluating a gun. It is a chief concern but for from the only one. Reliability is the starting point of my inquiry into a handgun not the end of it. Hi points function, that does not mean they are no inferior to other guns on the market.

A Honda civic will fire up when you turn the key, but that doesn't mean it is not vastly inferior to an AMG Mercedes (or if you don't like those insert your favorite car).

BTW I owned a couple of hi points. Just like the Kel Tecs I've owned it is imediately clear why they are so inexpensive.

christcorp
February 7, 2010, 02:36 PM
Sorry 3legg; but when a person gives an opinion without any 1st hand experience, I have little to NO respect for the opinion. And that seems to be the vast majority of the hi-point bashing.

Have I ever said the hi-point was better than my Sig, Dan Wesson, S&W, Springfield, etc... no; I didn't. Is it better? Not it isn't. All guns have limitations, and once you understand the limitations of the hi-point, you can then use it for what it's good at, and it becomes a very useful and trustworthy weapon.

Girodin; you bring up a good analogy. However, you have to realize that SOMETIMES the Honda Civic is the BETTER CAR over the Mercedes. If you life in a congested urban environment, gasoline is expensive, parking is difficult, etc... then the civic is a BETTER car than the mercedes. If you take long trips, go at interstate 75mph+ speeds, have 3-4 passengers, then the mercedes is the better car.

There is nothing wrong with the Hi-Point if used for what it's good for. If you want to use it as a carry weapon, then it sucks. A pickup truck also sucks for taking the family on a vacation cross country. If you want to use the hi-point as a truck, tackle box, garage, extra room in the house where you can get to it, etc... gun; then it's fine. It's reliable and dependable. And it will shoot when you need it to. It doesn't have all the safeties that a better gun has. That's why it sucks as a carry gun. It's heavy and not very ergonomic. Again; a crappy carry gun. But if you don't try to use it for what it's not meant to be, it will work just fine.

There are those that conceal carry 1911's, anacondas, and a host of weapons; even though they weren't intended to. Be real; anyone who can't admit that the 1911 was intended as an outside carry weapon, and not concealed, is totally rationalizing. Not saying you can't do it; but you have to really adapt. Well, the hi-point isn't the same as most carry guns. That doesn't make it junk. I don't trust striker fire single action only. (The firing pin is under constant spring tension). However; in the truck, garage, house, etc... where a round in the chamber isn't important, the gun is perfectly fine.

And that is the problem with the gun snobs. Most have never owned or shot a hi-point, so they don't know what the hell they are talking about. So their opinions mean absolutely nothing to me. How can I respect an opinion that is ignorant and the person is simply spouting stuff they heard? Also, many snobs simply try and COMPARE the hi-point to other guns. Again, a very ignorant approach. Don't compare it. Simply determine if for what it was intended to do, is it a decent gun. The answer is yes. Don't compare it to a Walther or glock for concealed carry. Don't compare it to a gold-cup for target shooting. Compare it to a gun that you PICK up, point at a person, pull the trigger, and shoot them, in defense of your own life. Will it do that, and do it reliably? Yes.

Girodin
February 7, 2010, 10:08 PM
Also, many snobs simply try and COMPARE the hi-point to other guns. Again, a very ignorant approach. Don't compare it. Simply determine if for what it was intended to do, is it a decent gun.

That is a bit silly to suggest that a product not be compared to other products on the market. Basically the way one evaluates of any product is in part to compare it to what else is available. It also seems to imply that you recognize they do not compare favorably with various other weapons.

earlthegoat2
February 7, 2010, 10:15 PM
Im a gun snob through and through and I am proud of it. This does not mean I only want and like expensive guns. I like GOOD guns no matter what the cost. Despite the ideal thinking and the "I want the best value" crowd might say, the best value rarely means the best gun. I was initially disappointed with that site because I would like to see a site entitled "The Best Nines" to actually have the best nine's. The tagline stating it is "The Best 9mm Pistol Site" is only true if you take away the silly "rules" and include all the other nines that are out there.

Nonetheless,

I do like the Cz75, Beretta 92, and Jericho and I hate Hi Points though they do go bang when you pull the trigger.

StarDust1
February 7, 2010, 11:13 PM
Unfortunately my friend, you don't know too much about Hi-Points. Instead of debating, I'll just ask you 2 questions.

1. Which hi-point did you own, and what problem did you have with it?
2. If none is the answer to #1; then who's hi-point did you shoot, how much ammo, and what problem did you have with it.

If none is the answer to #2, then you definitely have no idea what you're talking about. Which happens to be probably the case for more than 90% of the comments by people who say Hi-Points are junk. So which is it. If your answer is NONE to either of my questions, then you might as well not even reply, because your opinion won't mean anything to me. I own SigSauer, Dan Wesson, Springfield Armory, Walther, CZ, FEG, and many other guns. Some are in the $1000 - $1500 price range. So when I decided I wanted to have an opinion of Hi-Point, Jennings, Bryco, Davis, Cobra, Phoenix, and other "Cheap" guns, I put my money where my mouth is. And yes, some of those are definitely "Cheap" guns. Some, to the point of dangerous. But Hi-Point isn't a cheap gun. It's an "Inexpensive" gun; but there's a big difference between "Cheap" and "Inexpensive".

So, if you want to talk smack, then answer yes to my 2 questions. Not sure if I would buy your answer anyway, because a person who actually owned one most times says that they are ugly, heavy, bulky, and feel like crap. But they always go bang and they are very reliable. And if they didn't like them for the aesthetic reasons, that's cool. But they would say so. So, what is your expertise in this matter?
Nice try, they're still POS/junk, why not just take an old car antenna and make yourself an old fashioned zip-gun for free?
Don't feel too bad though, I chalk it up to the general decline of American civilization that such a POS could even remotely be considered worthy of a public declaration of admiration...I kid you not, I can go to the local landfill and assemble a superior firearm from refuse...:)

lions
February 8, 2010, 10:13 AM
I kid you not, I can go to the local landfill and assemble a superior firearm from refuse...

I'll bite... prove it. I'll wait for pictures.;)

christcorp
February 8, 2010, 10:43 AM
girodin; you don't have to compare it to other guns to determine if it does what it's suppose to do. And of course it doesn't fair as favorably as some other weapons. Duh... But unfortunately, too many people think it's an all or nothing. Buy a Mercedes, because all other cars are useless. That's stupid. A Ford focus can be a totally acceptable car for it's uses. And a Hi-Point can also be a fine weapon for it's uses. I wouldn't use it as a carry gun, but that doesn't mean that it can't be a good defensive gun in other venues.

We can make it simple. Tell me the hi-point that you've owned, and what problems you had with it. It really is that simple. Are other guns better? Some are, some aren't. Are others better at a particular task? Some are, some aren't. Is a gun better because it will last for 100 years compared to a gun that might only last 50 years? That's debatable. The ROI that a person decides with is totally a personal choice.

If I could only own 1 pistol ever, then no, the Hi-Point would not be the choice. Then again, no semi-auto pistol would be the answer if I could only ever own 1 pistol. It would be a 357 magnum revolver. It is about the most versatile pistol/caliber on the planet. But if you are fortunate to be financially well off; like myself; and can afford numerous guns; then a hi-point can definitely have it's place in my collection. I personally don't like putting my Sig, Dan Wesson, or Kimber under the seat of my truck, in my fishing tackle box, or left in the garage. But I don't mind doing that to the hi-point. And I trust the hi-point will go bang if/when I need it. And that's what's important. I've got some guns that cost more than some people's paychecks, and there's no reason to be a gun snob and say that a pistol is cheap, junk, crap, etc... because it only cost $150. Now; if you have first hand experience with the weapon and you've had problems, we can definitely discuss the quality issues. But it seems that more than 90% of those who dog the hi-point have never shot one and don't know what they're talking about.

Girodin
February 8, 2010, 08:03 PM
You are just talking in tautological circles. Can you see that? You are setting saying the measure of good is if it does what it is designed to do and then presuming it is designed to do only what it can do.

Even if you disagree that it is tautological, you set the bar for "good" so low as to be virtually meaningless.

If your sole point is that the hi point is good because it is both cheap and reliable (presumptively its design goals) then yes it is good at doing that. To use your own term DUH. That alone, however does not amount to being a good handgun more generally.

christcorp
February 8, 2010, 08:34 PM
Then you tell me what constitutes "Good" in your opinion. MIND YOU, we're debating that many people, most who have never shot or owned one, refer to them as "JUNK".

When it comes to firearms, the 1st and most important thing, when determining good, is if it will hold rounds, chamber rounds, fire rounds, extract rounds, eject rounds, and hit the point of aim.... Then repeatedly do that in a consistent manner.

If it can't do that, then it's junk. I don't care if it's a $100 or $1000 gun. Once you realize it can do that above, "Junk" is no longer a characteristic of the gun. Then it becomes totally a personal choice and whether or not you are willing to pay the price asked for; for that particular gun.

I am not speaking in circles, and I have not set the bar for "GOOD" too low. You are trying to rationalize, based on your preferences, whether the hi-point is a good gun or junk. Not once did I ever asked if you "LIKED" hi-points. Not once did I ever ask if you would "BUY" a hi-point. I've been more than honest in mentioning what "I" think are it's drawbacks. (Mostly aesthetic, so some people may disagree with me). But whether it's a Kimber, Colt, Walther, Dan Wesson, Glock, or Hi-Point; there has to be a "Minimum Standard" that all guns must meet. And that minimum standard that ALL GUNS MUST MEET, is "OBVIOUSLY" what I mentioned above. It doesn't impress me at all if you have a $1500 kimber, if it doesn't consistently shoot bullets and hit your target. That is the minimum. To deny that standard is to rationalize and try to find and invent ways to discard a weapon because you can't admit that it could very well be a good weapon for some people.

I'm not saying you have to like it. Personally; it's ugly, bulky, heavy, and ergonomically a PITA. But it's not a junk gun like some are. It's not going to fall apart in your hands. It's not going to blow up on you. It will consistently fire rounds. Are there lemons? Yes. But there are lemons in glock, kimber, wesson, springfield, and every other manufacturer.

Maj.Striker
February 9, 2010, 09:37 AM
Although I personally despise them, I will not say that High Point is junk. High Point is no more junk than a Makarov or a TT33. It looks fugly but it does work and reliability is probably the most important quality of a handgun (followed closely by accuracy).

You don't have to like it, don't have to use one but you'd better respect it because its just as capable of shooting you dead as any other gun.

I will never own one because they're just too ugly for a man of my tastes to keep in his collection (even in the back of the safe with a bag over its head).

But they do work...junk does not work but a High Point does.

StarDust1
February 9, 2010, 12:13 PM
Although I personally despise them, I will not say that High Point is junk. High Point is no more junk than a Makarov or a TT33. It looks fugly but it does work and reliability is probably the most important quality of a handgun (followed closely by accuracy).

You don't have to like it, don't have to use one but you'd better respect it because its just as capable of shooting you dead as any other gun.

I will never own one because they're just too ugly for a man of my tastes to keep in his collection (even in the back of the safe with a bag over its head).

But they do work...junk does not work but a High Point does.
I must chime in yet again...Comparing an excellent design such as the Makarov to the repulsive engineering effort called "the Hi-Point" is simply not credible.
The Mak is a Russian improvement to the Walther PP, and as such not just a historic one, but an excellent one at that, produced by the Russians(Soviets)en-masse for just pennies on the dollar, it actually cost less to manufacture then does the "ahh" Hi-Point which contains absolutely no forgings, but rather castings!
When you spend $110.00 for a new Hi-Point, you've spent about $107.00 over it's cost of production...

christcorp
February 9, 2010, 12:40 PM
I have an E. German Makarov as well as a CZ-82. (Obviously both chambered in 9mm makarov). I love those pistols. Personally, I like the CZ-82 BETTER than the E. German Makarov. But in all fairness to Hi-Point, Makarovs cost less because of the standard of living in Eastern Europe and Russian; and that many of these weapons are military surplus. A good example is the CZ-82. It is a surplus military weapon that can be bought for $200. However; the CZ-83, which is the civilian model, which is NOW BUILT in the United States at the CZ-USA plant, costs more than $400 for the identical weapon. Cost of living and labor in the United States is a lot more. A Makarov built here today, would easily cost more than $500.

As for MajStriker's comments; he is DEAD ON BALLS ACCURATE. That is exactly how a hi-point or any gun should be looked at. He doesn't want one because of the aesthetics. That is a totally viable reason. But from his research, he has either determined, or given the benefit of the doubt that the Hi-Point will in fact reliably do what it is suppose to do. And that is: Shoot bullets consistently. Hi-Point guns are definitely not junk.

So as long as people recognize that a gun isn't classified as junk because they don't happen to like it; but rather because it doesn't consistently and reliably shoot bullets; then there shouldn't be any argument. I personally think that Glocks are the WORST FEELING guns in the world. It's not because it's plastic. It's just that it feels crappy to me. That doesn't mean Glocks are junk just because there's no way ever that I would own one. And if it was given to me for free, the first thing I'd do with it is put it up for sale. But again, it isn't junk. Just because some people don't like hi-point, doesn't mean they are junk.

Hobbesbuff
February 9, 2010, 04:51 PM
Let's leave it this way: All ballistic missle projection devices are "good". Some are better than others, some are prettier or more effective or more reliable than others, but they're all good.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as is the "ergonomic feel" of any pistol in the hand of the holder. Great accuracy at distances over 3 yards is a function of practiced skill----so leave it at that!

3leggeddog
February 9, 2010, 05:13 PM
"CHRISTCORP": This thread has been entertaining, but your trying way to hard to force your opinions on others! Sir, please forgive me ,I think the REAL ISSUE here is you just LOVE to argue!

christcorp
February 9, 2010, 08:54 PM
No 3legg; the issue is that for years, people have been giving hi-points and their owners a crock of shiite and making people believe that the guns suck. And in the past, as someone who only shot a few hi-points that belonged to other people, I stayed pretty neutral. But when I decided to buy one to try it out; (Granted, some people don't have the means to simply buy any and all the guns they want. Especially just to test them); I realized that there's a lot of people on these forums that have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. At least on this topic. And granted, that's one of the downsides of a forum. Someone who speaks authoritatively, could be 16 years old and never tried a weapon that s/he is sounding off as an expert on. So, we tend to give the benefit of the doubt on forums. Now I haven't started one thread here about a hi-point. I'm only responding to others. If a person says: I don't want or like a hi-point because they're ugly, heavy, bulky, etc... and they don't mention the actual quality, reliability, dependability, etc... because they never shot one; then I respect that. No one said you need to own one. They are definitely ugly. But if a person comes on here and says that Hi-Point sucks; then I always ask the same 2 simple questions. 1) Which one did you own, and what didn't you like about it.... and/or 2) Which one did you shoot, and how many rounds did you put through it; and what didn't you like about it.

Here's the problem. The vast majority answer "NONE" to both questions. Therefor, their opinion doesn't matter. It's total B.S. And yet, many of them are the ones that continue on trying to say; "for only $200 more"; or "Would you risk you or your family's life on it". These people are total idiots. My comments are simply calling their bluff and proving that they are full of shiite. And some of them simply don't like being proven to be full of it.

The funny thing is; I definitely understand this gun's limitations. I also understand all the negatives that is has. And I freely admit those. But I'm willing to talk about some of the positives of the weapon. Those who like to simply argue or claim the HP is junk, either has to rationalize spending a lot of money on the gun they have, or try and belittle those who own a hi-point to make themselves appear better. That's cool. There's been a few people on this topic like Striker who is objective. He doesn't like them; thinks their ugly; and wouldn't own one. Yet, he concedes that from his understanding, they aren't junk. Then there's people who keep talking smack, and yet have no idea what they're talking about. If you want to talk about Horses, I'd be pretty quiet with only a couple of questions trying to learn. Because I don't know much about horses. Same if you wanted to talk about many different topics. Some people however want to be experts on a topic, even though they have absolutely no experience or idea what they're talking about. And they hide behind anonymity and their right to free speech. They just don't like getting caught not knowing what they're talking about.

Mr.Davis
February 9, 2010, 09:12 PM
A Hi-Point is a budget firearm, designed primarily for those who can't afford anything better. Say what you will about them, but they're BETTER than the other guns available at the same price point, period.

Many people on this board can buy any gun they'd like. That's not reality for many folks in the real world. Would you rather a poor man be unable to defend his family, or have a Hi-Point?

That's what I thought.

By the grace of God, I am not a poor man, but if I were, and I felt a need to defend my family, and only had $150 to spend on a gun, then it's not going to matter how much more awesome a Springfield .45 1911 is, or how many more bullets a Glock holds.

3leggeddog
February 9, 2010, 09:56 PM
Mr.Davis-
I totaly agree with ya on that one! I wish I could of been a Gun snob,but 4 kids stop me! lol Im down to 2 pistols, a Ruger Mark II SS Slab side Competiton Target, a Ruger SR9.

Christcorp-
I believe I now have a better understanding where your coming from on this,no harm done I hope!

MostlySurly
February 10, 2010, 01:54 PM
Christcorp, you have actually prompted me to join the forum.
Your logical, dispassionate arguments about the Hi-Point make me want to shoot one. I suspect I would find the experience distasteful, but it may just end up being my shop gun, based on your review.

Your passionate argument that those inexpereinced with a certain tool/horse/whatever should probably check their tongues holds water with this old ignoramous.

Thank you for an entertaining thread!

Doug

christcorp
February 10, 2010, 03:57 PM
My pleasure. You're a neighbor. If you're coming through Wyoming, let me know. You can shoot my 9mm C-9 Hi-Point. She sure is ugly, bulky, and heavy. I would never carry one. But like you said, it makes a great shop gun. I keep mine in my truck or garage mostly. I've only had one for about 4 months, but I've shot close to 500 rounds through it without issues. I did send the pistol back to hi-point for some "Non-Function" type issues that didn't affect the shooting. Plus I wanted to check out their customer service. From the day I mailed it to them; UPS; til the time the fedex guy returned it to my house; was a total of 10 days. To cover the cost of me shipping it, ($8), Hi-Point throws in a free magazine. Plus, while they had it, they added features that newer models have that mine didn't because it was older. E.g. Last round slide open; magazine safety so it doesn't fire if the magazine is removed, etc... They wrote on paper everything they did. They even replaced all normal wear/tear parts "JUST BECAUSE". Nothing wrong with them, but while they had it, they figured they'd do it. Their customer service/warranty is "SCARY GOOD". Meaning, we're not use to seeing customer service this good in decades. Their company treats their customers the way we remember companies treating customers 30-40 years ago. The hi-point will never be a carry gun for me. But for the truck, garage, or vacant spot in the house that I can get to it if needed; it is the PERFECT gun.

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