Owning an out-of-state gun in California?


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Solomon
February 5, 2010, 02:11 AM
Hi All,
I was wondering if anyone knows if I would be able to own/register an out-of-state gun in California that isn't on their approved list. For example, if I bought a pocket pistol in Washington (for example, ruger lcp, keltec p3at, taurus tcp) and moved to California, would I be able to register the gun in California?

Also, would I be able to carry the same gun as a concealed carry if I were to get a California CCW permit? Thanks for the help yall.

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Quiet
February 5, 2010, 09:42 AM
Are you a CA resident?
If so, Federal laws prohibit you from purchasing a handgun in another state and taking possession of it.
You can purchase a handgun in another state, but it must be shipped to a CA FFL dealer and if the hangun is being shipped, then it must be on the CA DOJ approved list (unless you are exempted from the approved list).

If you are a resident of another state and are moving to CA, then you can legally bring with you any handgun (that is not considered an assault weapon) with you to CA. Within 60 days of establishing residency in CA, you must register all the handguns you brought with you with the CA DOJ BOF.

In CA, each issuing authority for a CCW permit has different restrictions on what kind of handgun you can be approved to carry on your permit. So, it depends on which LE agency you get your permit through.

ultradoc
February 5, 2010, 09:45 AM
Remind me never to move to Ca.

REOIV
February 5, 2010, 10:52 AM
When we win the McDonald case, California's days of urinating on 2nd amendment rights will be a thing of the past.

Solomon
February 5, 2010, 08:03 PM
I moved up to WA not too long ago from California but became a WA resident (got my driver's license and all) and have purchased a few guns. I might move back and wasn't sure if I could use a gun not on their approved list as a CC. Thanks for the response!

ArmedLiberal
February 5, 2010, 08:09 PM
There is no "Registration" of firearms in California. Records of the sale or importation of handguns are kept by the State DOJ, but records of long guns sales are required to be destroyed once the background check is clear. If you're stopped and searched by a cop, he can run your gun for any reports of being stolen, but there is no registration to verify.

The approved list of handguns only applies to sales by or through FFLs.

Person to Person sales, sales by or to LEOs, importation of your previously owned handguns without the intent to sell by those moving to California or consignment sales are exempt from the handgun list.


Here's the DoJ Department of Firearms FAQ : http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php#24


How do I know if my firearms need to be registered?

There is no firearm registration requirement in California except for assault weapon owners and personal handgun importers. However, you may submit a Firearm Ownership Record to the DOJ for any firearm you own. Having a Firearm Ownership Record on file with the DOJ may help in the return of your firearm if it is lost or stolen. With very few and specific exceptions, all firearm transactions must be conducted through a firearms dealer.


I am moving into California and I own several handguns. What are the new-resident registration requirements?

You are considered to be a personal handgun importer as defined by California law. You may bring all of your otherwise California-legal firearms with you, but you must report all of your handguns to the DOJ within 60 days as required utilizing the New Resident Handgun Ownership Report. [PDF 518 kb / 2 pg] You are not required to report rifles or shotguns. You may not bring ammunition feeding devices with a capacity greater than ten rounds, machineguns, or assault weapons into California.

(PC sections 12001(n), 12072(f)(2))

Librarian
February 6, 2010, 12:52 AM
There is no "Registration" of firearms in California. Records of the sale or importation of handguns are kept by the State DOJ, but records of long guns sales are required to be destroyed once the background check is clear. If you're stopped and searched by a cop, he can run your gun for any reports of being stolen, but there is no registration to verify.

Depends on what you mean by 'registration'.

Long guns, as you say, are not registered (except for CA 'assault weapons') - no buyer info is kept and no make-model-caliber information is reported to the state through DROS.

Handguns, however, require that information on DROS; new-resident reports require that information; intra-family transfers require that information. All that information is maintained by CA-DOJ, and owner info can be updated when a resident/owner changes address and tells DMV. That info can be, and is, run by police at various times. I think that qualifies as 'registration'.

That's distinct from saying guns MUST BE registered. Guns never run through a CA FFL (FFL transfers began to be required in 1991), guns moved here before new-resident reporting was required (1998) probably are NOT registered.

See also the Calguns Foundation Wiki article on registration (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Firearms_registration).

StarDust1
February 6, 2010, 11:27 AM
I wouldn't visit **********, let alone live there...

NavyLCDR
February 6, 2010, 12:22 PM
There is no "Registration" of firearms in California

Wow, somebody has been drinking way too much government issued kool aid!

tuckerdog1
February 8, 2010, 08:15 AM
Why am I reading this? I'm never moving back there...

Tuckerdog1

jon_in_wv
February 8, 2010, 06:20 PM
I used to live there. I wouldn't make that mistake twice. Let the libs and the lefties have it.

medalguy
February 8, 2010, 07:41 PM
I don't even want to VISIT there! Done it once, that was enough.

The Bushmaster
February 8, 2010, 10:41 PM
Lived in the USSR of C for 20 years. Escaped in July of 2006. I never registered any of the firearms that I brought in...Most of which were handguns. Some on their "no can have" list...

Librarian
February 8, 2010, 10:56 PM
Lived in the USSR of C for 20 years. Escaped in July of 2006. I never registered any of the firearms that I brought in...Most of which were handguns. Some on their "no can have" list...Congratulations on moving to a freer country.

Minor point: it's not a "no can have" list, it's a "CA-Licensed FFLs cannot transfer these to just anyone" list.

Zoogster
February 10, 2010, 02:33 PM
There is no "Registration" of firearms in California.


There is absolutely registration of handguns in California regardless of what term they choose to use.

The start of registration went unnoticed by many in California, and since it is done automatically for all new handgun purchases without the knowledge of the owner most residents remain ignorant of it.


Every handgun purchased in California is automatically entered into a state database that is available to LEO and other state officials.
LEO can obtain this information from their in car computers when pulling someone over for a traffic stop, or responding to an address, or otherwise running a person's name who they encounter.
So LEO instantly know the number of handguns registered to a person. I have known people who have been approached cautiously (like an armed criminal) because they had an abnormally large number of legally registered handguns during a routine traffic stop. This identifies them as a "gun nut" to officers which think that way.
(The individual knew that was the reason because the officer asked if they were transporting any of those numerous firearms they were documented as having in the database when the reason for the stop was merely traffic related.)
Every person that moves to California is also required to not only register every handgun they have with the state within 60 days with a "NEW RESIDENT HANDGUN OWNERSHIP REPORT", but must pay a fee for each gun to do it. That fee is currently $19 per handgun.

It even goes further than that. The database automatically cross checks constantly all gun owners and red flags anyone who becomes a new prohibited person for a visit from local LEO. They become an 'armed and dangerous' prohibited person.
In California there is not only felonies, but many misdemeanors which do not make someone prohibited in other states but do in California.
Most of those prohibitions last 10 years, some for life.
Some of those misdemeanors can be discretionarily given in really petty circumstances.
Possession of a firearm as a prohibited person due to any misdemeanor is a felony no different than a felon with a firearm: A felony charge which would then make someone prohibited nationally for life.


Long guns while not registered the same way still have a DROS created. That DROS is supposed to have less information about the firearm, but some stores still add more than necessary in the slots provided.

So all handguns legally purchased or transferred in California since 1991, or which became legally owned in the state by someone moving in from out of state after 1998 are registered in a very easy to search database open to state officials and LEO.
Those which are not registered and legally possessed prior to the law subject people to increased penalties for the same violations of law:
For example a mistake in legal transport of a handgun becomes a felony for the owner of an unregistered (even though legally owned) handgun while it can be only a misdemeanor if the handgun is registered.

Solomon
February 11, 2010, 12:53 AM
so you're basically saying if I were to move back to California (after declaring Washington residency and purchasing 2 handguns) I'll have to re-register with the state of California and pay $19 for each handgun?

Would it be against the law if I didn't register the handgun in California since they are already registered to me in Washington?:confused:

Gungnir
February 11, 2010, 12:57 AM
They're not registered in Washington, Washington doesn't require, nor have the ability to register hand or any other gun. Nor is it a requirement to register handguns under Federal law either period, in fact it's illegal.

Zoogster
February 11, 2010, 03:01 AM
so you're basically saying if I were to move back to California (after declaring Washington residency and purchasing 2 handguns) I'll have to re-register with the state of California and pay $19 for each handgun?

You will not need to "re-register" any handguns you had already purchased in California prior to moving out of California. They would already still be registered to you.
Handguns you have since purchased outside of California would need to be registered under California law.
If that is two handguns you would need to pay $19 for each, totaling $38.

The pocket pistols you listed would be perfectly legal. Magazines you brought back to California would need to be 10 rounds or less in capacity.

One more small attribute on a typical pocket gun can be a problem.
Any pistol with a threaded barrel is an "assault weapon".
These would be illegal unregistered "assault weapons" subjecting you to years in prison and felony conviction.

12280. (a) (1) Any person who, within this state, manufactures or
causes to be manufactured, distributes, transports, or imports into
the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who
gives or lends any assault weapon or any .50 BMG rifle, except as
provided by this chapter, is guilty of a felony, and upon conviction
shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for four, six,
or eight years.


12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall
also mean any of the following:
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a
detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor,
forward handgrip, or silencer.

So make sure there is no threads on the barrel. Those little cuts are a big deal in California. :neener:

Deltaboy
February 11, 2010, 09:30 PM
I have to tell them how many guns I got????? Well I will never move to Kallie because it is none of their Dang Business.

Freedom loving people should move from Kallie, NJ , NY, and ILL. to States where you still have freedom to own what you want without the State poking their noses into your business. It is Bad enough with the Feds stepping on the 2nd Amendment without your State boys doing the same or in most cases worse.

FenderTK421
February 11, 2010, 11:53 PM
I defected from Kommiefornia in 2004... Wish I would have done it sooner.

CPshooter
February 18, 2010, 02:09 AM
Hey guys,

I need a little advice since I might be moving to California temporarily for a 9-12 month training program due to a possible job offer.

Let me see if I understand this correctly. If I want to bring my beloved USP.40 Compact into the state, I can do so, but I'd have to pay a $19 fee to register the gun and would NOT be allowed to bring any of the seven 12-round magazines with me??!! If so, that sucks!

High-capacity (> 10 rounds) magazines aren't even allowed at the shooting range? I could see if you couldn't CARRY more than 10 rounds in a magazine, but why would it matter at a shooting range?

Since I won't be there long enough to establish residency (I'm assuming it requires a full year), would my Indiana CC permit allow me to carry? Or am I just SOL for the 9 months I'll be there? If so, this is a total bummer. Thanks in advance.

ArmedLiberal
February 18, 2010, 03:38 AM
It is illegal to buy, sell, give, manufacture or import mags of >10 round capacity. If you owned them in California before 2000 there is no law against merely possessing them or using them. There's an exception for LE and some others. So you might see normal capacity mags at the range.

Also, magazine repair parts kits are not illegal. The CA DOJ has clarified the law and stated that you may import magazine parts to repair a magazine owned before 2000. This includes a disassembled parts kit that contains all the parts necessary for a complete magazine. If, by chance, you were to assemble such a parts kit into a new magazine that would be 'manufacture' and against the law.

You can legalize your magazines by permanently altering them to 10 round capacity.

CalGuns.net is a great website for learning about California Gun Law. The Law is very strange at times, something like Alice in Wonderland.

Here's a FAQ: http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Frequently_Asked_Questions

And the Forum: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/index.php

And the DOJ: http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/

And the DOJ FAQ: http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php

Fremmer
February 18, 2010, 04:01 AM
you must report all of your handguns to the DOJ within 60 days as required utilizing the New Resident Handgun Ownership Report.

Welcome to California.....:uhoh:

Frank Ettin
February 18, 2010, 10:50 AM
....Since I won't be there long enough to establish residency (I'm assuming it requires a full year), would my Indiana CC permit allow me to carry? Or am I just SOL for the 9 months I'll be there? If so, this is a total bummer. ....California does not recognize the CC permits of any other state.

Establishing residency is probably moot anyway. California is a "may issue" state. It is entirely within the unfettered discretion of the sheriff of your county of residence (of the chief of police of your city of residence) whether or not you have "good cause" for a permit. In general, self defense alone is not "good cause."

The practical effect is the CC permits are almost impossible to get in the major, more urban counties like L. A., San Francisco, Alameda, Santa Clara, Marin, Monterey, Contra Costa, and a bunch of others. CC permits are fairly easy to get in a number of rural counties, but you must be a resident of the county (although a permit is good state wide).

Librarian
February 18, 2010, 10:53 AM
Since I won't be there long enough to establish residency (I'm assuming it requires a full year), would my Indiana CC permit allow me to carry? Or am I just SOL for the 9 months I'll be there?
CA does not recognize any other state's CCW; some counties/cities darn near don't recognize CA CCWs.

CPshooter
February 18, 2010, 01:05 PM
Wow, California sucks. If I get this job, I hope the 9 months goes by fast so I can get the hell out of there ASAP. Stupid liberals...they take away our 2nd amendment rights AND run Cali into debt. Way to go.

sig220mw
February 19, 2010, 12:07 AM
What ultradoc said.

Noxx
February 20, 2010, 10:49 AM
In California there is not only felonies, but many misdemeanors which do not make someone prohibited in other states but do in California.
Most of those prohibitions last 10 years, some for life.
Some of those misdemeanors can be discretionarily given in really petty circumstances.

I'd like to see a citation here. As far as I'm aware (and I try to keep pretty aware) the conditions for becoming a prohibited possessor here in CA are pretty universal. Convicted felon, restraining order, DV, fugitive from justice (includes that bench warrant from a three year old speeding ticket, don't you know) adjudicated, addicted, or under conditions of parole / probation.

I'm pretty sure it's also common in LA county in particular, that if you can be identified as a member of a "known criminal organization" which has an injunction against it, the conditions of that injunction may prohibit you from possessing (which is total BS, but one thing at a time). I'm only familiar with this one because our local city PD is in the process of some heavy handed and rather annoying probing of the MC I belong to in an attempt to associate us with the local dominant diamond MC. They're real boneheads about it too, I sat on a cops bumper for 40 minutes the other night running out of ways to say "thats none of your business". I digress.

I'm no supporter of the way CA treats 2A, and it's armed citizens in general. But I don't believe there are any more arbitrary ways to disarm you here than anywhere else. Mostly it's about fees, paperwork, and restrictions designed to discourage the financial lower class from being armed, and that's no shocker.

Sir Aardvark
February 20, 2010, 12:58 PM
Direct from the CA Dept of Justice Firearms website's summary booklet of laws:

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2007.pdf

to view the entire DOJ-Firearms website:

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/

As you can see there are plenty of misdemeanor offenses that curtail one's gun rights. How this compares to other states, I don't know...


Persons Convicted of Misdemeanor Violations of Specified Offenses
Any person convicted of a misdemeanor violation for one or more of the following offenses is
prohibited from owning, possessing or having under his or her custody or control any firearm within
10 years of the conviction (Penal Code § 12021(c)(1)):

• Threatening public officers and employees and school officials. (Penal Code § 71.)
• Threatening certain public officials, appointees, judges, staff or their immediate
families. (Penal Code § 76.)
• Possession of a deadly weapon with intent to commit an assault (Penal
Code § 12024.)
• Possession of a deadly weapon with the intent to intimidate a witness. (Penal Code
§ 136.5.)
• Unauthorized possession/transportation of a machinegun. (Penal Code § 12220.)
• Threatening witnesses, victims, or informants. (Penal Code § 140.)
• Obstructing or delaying an officer or emergency medical technician and removing or attempting
to remove a firearm from these individuals. (Penal Code § 148(d).)
• Unauthorized possession of a weapon in a courtroom, courthouse or court building,
or at a public meeting. (Penal Code § 171b.)
• Bringing into or possessing a loaded firearm within the state capitol, legislative
offices, etc. (Penal Code § 171c.)
• Taking into or possessing loaded firearms within the Governor’s Mansion or
residence or other constitutional office, etc. (Penal Code § 171d.)
• Supplying firearms to any street gang member for use in street gang activity. (Penal
Code § 186.28.)
• Assault. (Penal Code §§ 240, 241.)
• Battery. (Penal Code §§ 242, 243.)
• Assault with a stun gun or taser weapon. (Penal Code § 244.5.)
• Assault with a deadly weapon or force likely to cause great bodily injury. (Penal
Code § 245.)
• Assault with a deadly weapon or instrument, by any means likely to produce great
bodily injury, or with a stun gun or taser, on a school employee engaged in the
performance of duties. (Penal Code § 245.5.)
• Discharging a firearm in a grossly negligent manner. (Penal Code § 246.3.)
• Shooting at an unoccupied aircraft, motor vehicle, or uninhabited building or
dwelling house. (Penal Code § 247.)
• Drawing or exhibiting any deadly weapon, including a firearm, in a rude or
threatening manner. (Penal Code § 417.)
California Firearms Laws 2007 21
• Drawing or exhibiting a firearm or other deadly weapon with the intentional
infliction of serious bodily injury. (Penal Code § 417.6.)
• Bringing into or possessing firearms upon or within public or private schools,
playgrounds and youth centers. (Penal Code § 626.9.)
• Willful infliction of corporal injury of a spouse or cohabitant. (Penal Code § 273.5.)
• Willful violation of a court order to prevent domestic violence. (Penal Code
§ 273.6.)
• Stalking. (Penal Code § 646.9.)
• Carrying a loaded firearm with the intent to commit a felony. (Penal Code § 12023.)
• Driver or owner of any vehicle who knowingly permits another person to discharge a firearm
from the vehicle or any person who willfully and maliciously discharges a firearm from a motor
vehicle. (Penal Code §§ 12034(b) and (d).)
• Criminal possession of a firearm. (Penal Code § 12040.)
• Selling a concealable firearm to a minor. (Penal Code § 12072(b).)
• Possessing handgun ammunition designed to penetrate metal or armor. (Penal Code §12320.)
• Carrying a concealed or loaded firearm or other deadly weapon or wearing a peace
officer uniform while picketing, carrying a concealed loaded weapon, or wearing a peace officer
uniform. (Penal Code § 12590.)
• Possession of a firearm by a person ineligible to possess firearms because of his or
her mental history. (Welfare and Institutions Code § 8100).
• Providing a firearm or deadly weapon to a person who is prohibited from possessing firearms
because of his or her mental history. (Welfare and Institutions Code § 8101).
• Possession of a firearm by a person ineligible to possess firearms because of specific mental
prohibitions. (Welfare and Institutions Code § 8103).
• Bringing or sending firearms or other contraband into a juvenile detention facility.
(Welfare and Institutions Code § 871.5)
• Bringing or sending firearms or other contraband into youth authority institutions.
(Welfare and Institutions Code § 1001.5.)
• Violating Penal Code section 12072 involving sales and transfers of firearms,
including:
- selling or furnishing a firearm to any person whom the individual has reason to
believe is within a prohibited class;
- selling or furnishing a handgun to a minor;
- selling or furnishing a firearm to any person whom the seller knows, or has cause
to believe, is not intended to be the actual purchaser or transferee;
- acquiring a firearm for the purpose of providing it to a prohibited individual;
- selling or transferring a firearm without having the transaction processed through a licensed
dealer or law enforcement agency;
- committing any act of collusion relating to a Handgun Safety Certificate.
• Intimidating a witness or victim. (Penal Code § 136.1.)
• Threatening to cause death or great bodily injury to another person. (Penal
Code § 422)
Persons

Zoogster
February 20, 2010, 04:13 PM
I'd like to see a citation here. As far as I'm aware (and I try to keep pretty aware) the conditions for becoming a prohibited possessor here in CA are pretty universal. Convicted felon, restraining order, DV, fugitive from justice (includes that bench warrant from a three year old speeding ticket, don't you know) adjudicated, addicted, or under conditions of parole / probation.

The poster above listed the official list.

The ones that can be applied in more petty situations include:

Threatening public officers and employees and school officials. (Penal Code § 71.)
• Threatening certain public officials, appointees, judges, staff or their immediate
families. (Penal Code § 76.)

Arguing with a school teacher or other employee of the state if they feel threatened can result in a 10 year prohibition. What charges if any result are discretionary. But if they feel you arguing with the teacher, DMV employee etc is a threat, 10 year prohibition.
This could also include public employees like water and code enforcement trespassing on land, and other state employees.

• Unauthorized possession of a weapon in a courtroom, courthouse or court building, or at a public meeting. (Penal Code § 171b.)
A small legal pocket knife accidentally carried into a courthouse or even to a local town hall, or any "public meeting" (including places with no security) is a 10 year prohibition.

• Assault. (Penal Code §§ 240, 241.)
• Battery. (Penal Code §§ 242, 243.)

This includes any fight with any person. In most self defense situations the officers will charge everyone involved and let the court determine the details.
Many people also misunderstand what an assault is. An assault is when no harm is actually done. Like balling up a fist but never throwing a punch.
This applies in any circumstance. So if say someone is sexually harassing your wife/girlfriend in front of you, just getting in their face or otherwise intimidating them would be an assault. Any contact is a battery.
Even if someone else like some hothead gets into your face and you have done nothing wrong, if you don't back down assault charges will typically stick on both parties if charged.
This typically means thugs and bullies must legally be allowed to win any argument or disagreement (because they will progress to intimidation or physical force) or you risk becoming prohibited.
10 year prohibition.


• Carrying a concealed or loaded firearm or other deadly weapon or wearing a peace
officer uniform while picketing, carrying a concealed loaded weapon, or wearing a peace officer
uniform. (Penal Code § 12590.)
It is illegal to picket or protest even with a concealed carry permit while you have a loaded firearm.


C Brandishing a firearm in presence of a peace officer (§§ 417(c), 12001.6(d), 12021(a)(1).)
Lifetime prohibition if a firearm is brandished in the presence of a peace officer.
Brandishing is a charge often given when something more serious was not done.
Because if someone was actually threatened then a felony assault with a deadly weapon charge is given.
Brandishing is often given in relatively petty situations, often so petty they are dropped in court because nothing illegal was even done.
Some people legally open carrying unloaded firearms have been given brandishing charges. Most should beat them, but some don't.
However if they stick (random jury) it is a lifetime prohibition if a cop witnessed it (which they did if it is for open carrying or transporting in a way they do not like.)

Keep in mind many of the things on the list can be charged as felonies, so if they are charged as misdemeanors to begin with it is usually because they are minor.

Noxx
February 20, 2010, 06:56 PM
I stand corrected, and rather mortified. Misdemeanor assault, of all things. Ridiculous.

Zoogster
February 20, 2010, 11:30 PM
I stand corrected, and rather mortified. Misdemeanor assault, of all things. Ridiculous.

Oh another good one:

• Intimidating a witness or victim. (Penal Code § 136.1.)

Lets say you piss off an ex or have a disagreement with someone over some financial issue. Lets say as a result they decide to falsely accuse you of something you never did. Maybe domestic violence as has been the case for some on this board.
Or maybe they just decide to claim some financial or property based lie which both of you know is totally fabricated.

Lets even say one of their friends is willing to lie in support of whatever the accusations are, as some do.

Now if some point later you were to run into either of them them or talk to them and tell them to knock of the BS or otherwise intimidate them you just intimidated a victim or witness.
10 year prohibition.

So getting angry with someone filing a false police report or pressing false charges and telling them they better not or to stop what they are doing is a 10 year prohibiting offense.


Now about that thing you stole from me Noxx. I am pressing charges! I am tired of being your victim! :neener:

thezoltar
February 22, 2010, 10:59 AM
Get yourself a safety deposit box at a bank or a good friend with a safe in WA and leave your non CA pistols behind for 9 months. As far as I know there is no law against storing your firearms in any state you want to. The laws are all about local possesion.

Librarian
February 22, 2010, 11:22 AM
Get yourself a safety deposit box at a bank or a good friend with a safe in WA and leave your non CA pistols behind for 9 months.Unless one is overly fond of pistols with threaded barrels, which California would likely consider 'assault weapons', possession and use of pistols not on CA's silly Roster is unregulated. The restriction is on CA FFLs selling them to non-exempt people, and CA residents must use CA FFLs.

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