can you buy a SBR upper for a ar without an class 3?


PDA






futureranger
February 5, 2010, 12:59 PM
title sums it up, but can one buy a sub 16" barrel without a class 3? i know there are pistol ar's but what about just an upper. am asking cause my friend told me about an article in the paper about a guy who "legally" had a sbr and it only became "illegal" when he put the upper and lower together.
-Pat

If you enjoyed reading about "can you buy a SBR upper for a ar without an class 3?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Sam1911
February 5, 2010, 01:17 PM
You can buy an upper without holding a FFL and being a Special Occupational Tax Class 3 dealer. Only a DEALER in National Firearms Act, Title II regulated firearms needs to become Class 3 licensed.

There is no license to OWN Title II - regulated firearms like machine guns, short-barreled rifles, short barreled shotguns, AOWs, suppressors, or destructive devices.

I think the question you're really trying to ask is, can a person own a SBR upper without registering the weapon it goes on with the BATFE as Title II regulated?

The answer is, "probably." If you own an AR-15, and also buy a sbr upper, you don't have to register it unless you are going to install that upper on the gun. (You must have your tax stamp in hand, approved, before you assemble the two.)

Now, if you own an SBR upper, and a lower with no top, that makse some folks very nervous. There's a concept called "Constructive Intent" that is said to apply. The idea being, if you have all the parts and it just happens to be in disassembled condition, it's still an unregistered SBR.

This is not cut and dried. There don't seem to be many (any?) cases of folks being nailed for this with ARs. (There ARE cases of this happening where folks had all the parts for a full-auto M-16 conversion and a receiver modified to hold them, and got busted for possession of an unregistered machine gun.)

The majority of wisdom from folks who have done this is that you can buy the upper ahead of time and just store it away while you wait for your stamp. Just don't assemble it until you have your approval in hand.

-Sam

CoRoMo
February 5, 2010, 01:18 PM
Just the upper? You can have it shipped to your house or you can walk in and out of the store without filling out the 4473, because it is not a "gun".

ny32182
February 5, 2010, 01:26 PM
You can buy the upper, yes, but if you are not buying it to put on a pistol or SBR registered lower, there is no good reason to have it.

If you have the short upper, a non-registerd rifle lower, and no pistol or registered lower, you can potentially get into hot water.

The safe play is to not buy it without owning a lower on which a legal installation could be done.

Arkady
February 5, 2010, 01:29 PM
A short barreled upper is perfectly legal to purchase, but possessing one without having either a SBR-registered or AR pistol lower could fall under the ATF's 'constructive intent' umbrella.

There is no "Class 3" license to purchase one, you would instead need to file a Form 1 (Application to Manufacture) for a short barreled rifle, and pay a (one time) $200 tax.

Personally, my dealer is holding on to my 11.5 upper until the Form 1 comes back from ATF.

MachIVshooter
February 5, 2010, 01:36 PM
A short barreled upper is perfectly legal to purchase, but possessing one without having either a SBR-registered or AR pistol lower could fall under the ATF's 'constructive intent' umbrella.

Pay attention to this. "constructive possession" is one of ATF's unscrupulous and oft used prosecution tactics.

MrCleanOK
February 5, 2010, 01:36 PM
As has been said, you can buy a sub-16" barreled upper without having to do anything special.

Now, owning a sub-16" upper WITHOUT also owning the means to assemble it to a pistol or registered SBR lower receiver shows (what the ATF calls) "constructive intent", even if it is not installed on a rifle lower receiver. Do some research on AR pistols, SBRs, and "constructive intent" and its consquences. Let your conscience (and the law) be your guide.

jmorris
February 15, 2010, 10:30 AM
The last SBR I did I assembled as a pistol until I received my approved form 1 back then just swapped the tube for a stock.

Holling
February 15, 2010, 10:55 AM
I know guys that have bought the upper and had it shipped to their non AR owning parents and/or friends house till they got their form 1 back. FWIW I just wait till I have the form 1 before I order the short barrel. I like going slow on these projects. Snap purchases usually cost more than well thought out ones.

hso
February 15, 2010, 12:32 PM
The common misunderstanding about having to have a "class 3" license needs to be addressed.

To own common NFA items you don't have to be a "dealer" or have a "class 3 license".

You pay for your item, fill out the forms, write your check for the $200 (or $5) tax and mail the forms and check in to ATF. You wait. The ATF does their checks and eventually approves you. You get your tax stamp in. You pay your FFL for helping out. You get your suppressor, SBR, transferrable machine gun, SBSG, AOW, whatever and you go have fun.

RippinSVT
February 15, 2010, 05:48 PM
Like stated, you can just order a 14.5 or 11.5 inch upper and ship it to yourself. I know people that have them, but they have had to permanently fix a flash suppressor or other attachment to the barrel to make it 16" and not be an SBR. In fact, a friend is coming over right now so I can pin/weld a brake on his 14.5" upper.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
February 15, 2010, 06:02 PM
a guy who "legally" had a sbr and it only became "illegal" when he put the upper and lower together

This tells me that what you're probably asking is whether or not there is some kind of end run or trick to avert the normal law and legally possess an SBR without the application process and tax stamp.

The answer is: No, there is not any end runs or exception.

So, the hearsay that you heard was incorrectly reported to you.....

a guy who "legally" had a sbr and it only became "illegal" when he put the upper and lower together

So no, that makes no sense. He did not "HAVE" an SBR without putting the upper and lower together, because an 'SBR' without a fire control group and lower receiver is NOT an SBR - it's not a gun at all. He didn't HAVE any kind of assembled/finished weapon of any kind, because he never put them together. Unless he did, in which he did have an (apparently illegal unregistered) SBR, but then the remaining portion would make no sense: "when[/B] he put the upper and lower together." Which means this mystery dude did NOT ever put them together; hence he never had an SBR, legal or not, and hence the hearsay was wrong.

In any event, there is no end run. Send in the paperwork, wait a long time, and pay the gov't their $200, or do it at your peril. If you are a bigger fan of free meals & housing, and free time, than you are of freedom, then slap 'em together and show all your friends! :p

If you have a criminal record beyond traffic tickets, then it ain't gonna happen, would be my guess (the SBR stamp approval). Anyone know about this? Is there a higher threshhold (of a clean past) for NFA items than for standard 4473, or is it the same? I have no criminal record, but what about a pothead (nonviolent) conviction? Is it conceivable that someone could be approved for ordinary 4473, but refused on NFA items, for lower level criminal charges/convictions?

CleverNickname
February 15, 2010, 06:22 PM
Anyone know about this? Is there a higher thresshold (of a clean past) for NFA items than for standard 4473, or is it the same?

The standard for possessing a title II firearm is exactly the same as for a title I firearm.

Vitesse304
February 15, 2010, 10:41 PM
so what is the process?

I want to get an SBR upper. I have a lower I want to put it on. I want to buy the upper and send in my paperwork for a SBR. After I get the paperwork in, and everything comes back clean, I can now assemble my SBR. What else do I need to do after I attach the upper to the lower?

also, I'm seeing in the paperwork that I need the serial number of the lower to complete the SBR, what if I want to continue to use that lower with my current AR set up and purchase a new lower for the SBR upper?

MrCleanOK
February 16, 2010, 12:29 AM
Once you get a lower SBR'ed, you're pretty much married to it. Do some work on the front end to make sure you have a long and prosperous life together.

1. Measure the trigger group pin holes and takedown/pivot pin holes to ensure they are in spec.
2. Assemble your lower to a non-NFA upper.
3. Shoot the crap out of it. At least 1000 rounds. Use as many different magazines as you can.
4. When you are absolutely satisfied there are no problems with your lower, send it to a firearms engraver with a good reputation for the required engraving.
5. Examine the engraving to ensure it meets your quality standards.
6. Go through the paperwork/application process.
7. Wait, wait, wait.
8. Get the approved stamp in your grubby little hands.
9. THEN, and ONLY THEN, order your NFA upper receiver.

You don't want to get a stamp for a lower, then find out that the mag well is too tight, or that your engraver has botched the job. You'll have this thing for life. There's no harm in waiting to do things in a sequence that covers your butt.

rfurtkamp
February 16, 2010, 12:53 AM
If you have a criminal record beyond traffic tickets, then it ain't gonna happen, would be my guess (the SBR stamp approval). Anyone know about this? Is there a higher thresshold (of a clean past) for NFA items than for standard 4473, or is it the same? I have no criminal record, but what about a pothead (nonviolent) conviction?

No idea on your specifics. I have a misdemeanor, non-domestic battery conviction from when I was 18. Zero issue with NFA stuff. If you're GTG on a 4473, you're GTG on NFA.

Walkalong
February 22, 2010, 08:44 PM
4. When you are absolutely satisfied there are no problems with your lower, send it to a firearms engraver with a good reputation for the required engraving.
What is that?

Sam1911
February 22, 2010, 09:01 PM
What is that?

The ATF says:

All NFA firearms must be identified by a serial number and other specified markings. If an existing firearm is being used in the making of the NFA weapon, and that firearm is serialized, the existing serial number should be used (unless it duplicates a serial number already used by the maker on Form 1) and entered in Block 4(g). If the weapon is of new manufacture, the applicant must assign a unique serial number and enter it in Block 4(g). For example, a unique serial number could be composed of at least 4 digits preceded by the initials of the maker. NOTE: alpha characters, e.g., a name, will not be accepted as a serial number. If a name is to be used, there must be at least one numeric character in addition to the alpha characters. The serial number must be engraved or stamped on the receiver of the firearm and the caliber, model, and identification of the maker must be engraved on the barrel or frame or receiver of the weapon. The marking and identification requirements for a maker are the same as for a manufacturer. Refer to section 7.4 for a detailed discussion of the requirements.

The rest of the story:

Section 7.4 The identification of firearms.
7.4.1 Serial numbers.
Each manufacturer of a firearm must legibly identify it by engraving, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing on the firearm’s frame or receiver an individual serial number not duplicating any serial number placed by the manufacturer on any other firearm. The requirement that the marking be “conspicuously” placed on the firearm means that the marking must be wholly unobstructed from plain view. For firearms manufactured on or after January 30, 2002, the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch.

7.4.1.1 What is an acceptable serial number?
Alpha characters (letters), for example a name, are not acceptable as a serial number. A proper serial number may contain such characters or
letters, but it must have at least one numeric character (number). ATF takes the view that marking “legibly” means using exclusively Roman letters (A, B, C, and so forth) and Arabic numerals (1, 2, 3, and so forth). Deviations from this requirement have been found to seriously impair ATF’s ability to trace firearms involved in crime.

7.4.2 Additional information.
Certain additional information must also be conspicuously placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel of the firearm by engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), that is, they must be placed in such a manner that they are wholly unobstructed from plain view. For firearms manufactured on or after January 30, 2002, this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch.
The additional information includes:

(1) The model, if such designation has been made;
(2) The caliber or gauge;
(3) The manufacturer’s name (or recognized abbreviation); and
(4) The city and State (or recognized abbreviation) where the manufacturer maintains its place
of business.

7.4.3 Measuring the depth of markings.
The depth of all markings is measured from the flat surface of the metal and not the peaks or ridges. The height of serial numbers is measured as the distance between the latitudinal ends of the character impression bottoms (bases).

7.4.4 Obtaining variances to the marking requirements.
Requests for variances from the marking requirements of 27 CFR 478.92 and 27 CFR 479.102 should be submitted by letter to ATF’s Firearms Technology Branch (FTB). The letter can be sent via mail to Chief, Firearms Technology Branch, 244 Needy Road, Martinsburg, WV 25405. The letter can also be sent to the marking variance e-mail address at: marking_variances@atf.gov. The marking variance request may be submitted by any of the parties involved in the variance. However, if the primary manufacturer is in possession of all the information including the names of the identity of the secondary manufacturers and the manufacturing
processes they may be performing on the firearm, it is preferred that the primary manufacturer submit the request to FTB.

The marking variance letter of request should clearly state the following information:
• manufacturer, importer, or maker of the firearm(s),
• recipient of the firearm(s),
• identify the name, city and State that will be displayed on the firearm(s),
• model designation, if designated,
• identify the type/style of firearm (pistol, machinegun, short-barreled rifle, etc.),
• caliber or gauge if assigned, and
• serial number scheme.

In identifying the serial number scheme to be used, you must supply a different serial scheme for each model and you must state the exact beginning serial number of the serial scheme you wish to use. Although letters and characters may be used, the serial number must use at least one number it the scheme. Please note, using the letter X, or the use of characters (#, *, etc.) as digit/character holders is unacceptable. For example, an incorrectly submitted serial scheme would be ALZXXXX. A correctly submitted serial scheme would be ALZ0001. You do not need to provide an ending serial number when submitting your serial number scheme.

7.4.4.1 Variances in the name and location of the manufacturer.
As stated above, the regulations require firearms to be marked with the manufacturer’s name, city and State or recognized abbreviation of the information. FTB will only grant marking variances for abbreviations regarding city and State names that are commonly recognized by the United States
Postal Service. If you intend to use a name or abbreviation other than your licensed name or recognized abbreviation, you must contact the Federal Firearms Licensing Center and complete ATF Form 5300.38 to have your Federal Firearms License amended to reflect the addition of a trade name or a “doing business as” name to your license. You may not use a name or
abbreviation until it is approved.

7.4.4.2 Variances for manufacturers’ contractors.
As pointed out in Section 7.2.2, some manufacturers contract with other entities to perform certain work on their firearms prior to their ultimate sale. In those instances the contractors are also “manufacturers” who must be licensed as a Type 07 Manufacturer or as a Type 10 Manufacturer of Destructive Devices in order to perform any manufacturing function on the firearm. Additionally, the regulations require that the secondary manufacturer mark the firearm with their identifying information to include name, city and State. A qualified, secondary manufacturer may request a variance to adopt the markings of the initial manufacturer. If a manufacturer is working with a secondary manufacturer, either the manufacturer or the secondary manufacturer can submit a letter of request to FTB for a marking variance.
You should be aware that marking variances for the manufacturer of machineguns is limited to the making of the receiver from one special (occupational) taxpayer manufacturer to another. The machinegun can be made on behalf of a manufacturer who intends on making the machineguns for stockpile for future sale to other dealers as sales samples, or for sale to law enforcement and the military. A machinegun cannot be transferred to a secondary manufacturer such as a bluer, Parkerizer, heat treater etc. In order to have a machinegun receiver blued, Parkerized or heat treated, etc., the possessor of the machinegun must transport the machinegun and remain in possession of the machinegun while it is being blued, Parkerized or heated treated by the secondary manufacturer.

7.4.4.3 Marking Destructive Devices.
In the case of a destructive device, FTB may authorize an alternate means of identification upon receipt of a manufacturer’s letter of request. The letter
of request should indicate that the engraving, casting or stamping the weapons would be dangerous or impracticable. The variance would allow an alternate method of marking such devices. For example, ATF may permit the required markings to be placed on the device by paint or stencil. A variance in this format will contain the information that is proscribed by the regulations. For example, lot numbers of ammunition classified as destructive devices would be acceptable in lieu of the information required by the regulations.

7.4.4.4 Marking parts, other than frames or receivers, defined as NFA firearms.
FTB may authorize alternate means of identifying such parts upon receipt of the manufacturer’s letter application showing that such other identification is reasonable and will not hinder the effective administration of the regulations. See Section 7.4.6 for information on marking silencer parts.

7.4.5 Marking frames or receivers that are not complete weapons at the time of disposition.
Firearms frames or receivers that are not components of complete firearms at the time of disposition must be identified with all the required markings, that is, serial numbers and all the additional markings discussed in Sections 7.4.1 and 7.4.2.124

7.4.6 Marking silencer parts.
Some FFLs/SOTs assemble silencers, for subsequent sale, from parts acquired from their contractors (NOTE: this activity is the “manufacture” of NFA firearms requiring the assembler and the contractor to qualify as manufacturers under the GCA and the NFA). Under these circumstances, ATF takes the position that contractors are not required to place identifying markings on silencer parts. They may, however, place an assembler’s markings on these parts if the assembler so desires. It should also be noted that these contractors are not required to register the parts they produce
by filing Forms 2, nor are they required to obtain approved Forms 3 to transfer the parts to assemblers.

Whew...

I LOVE how they will allow you to bypass stamping or engraving your serial number into certain destructive devices. Somehow I get this hilarious mental picture of "the new guy" at the factory being handed a hammer and punch set and being told to go put serial numbers on that day's batch of anti-personnel mines! :D :eek:

-Sam

sfc_mark
February 22, 2010, 11:40 PM
OK, maybe I'm missing something. I've heard (though I've never seen a cite from an authoritative source) that a SBR must receive additional marking. Reading the material from ATFE thoughtfully provided by SAM1911 in post #18 above, I see nothing to support that.

When I fill out my Form 1, can I not simply provide the serial number assigned by the manufacturer of my lower receiver without having to deface it by adding additional markings?

BTW, I really like MrCleanOK's recommendations. It would stink to find that you paid a non-refundable $200 tax to legally SBR a lemon receiver.

nalioth
February 22, 2010, 11:55 PM
Pay attention to this. "constructive possession" is one of ATF's unscrupulous and oft used prosecution tactics.Really? Does that mean we're all criminals if we own a hacksaw and a shotgun?

Now, owning a sub-16" upper WITHOUT also owning the means to assemble it to a pistol or registered SBR lower receiver shows (what the ATF calls) "constructive intent", even if it is not installed on a rifle lower receiver.Really? So if I don't own any AR stuff, I can't buy a 11.5" upper to use as a paperweight? Am I REALLLY gonna get in trouble?

I suspect that some of us wear our tin foil too tightly wrapped.

OK, maybe I'm missing something. I've heard (though I've never seen a cite from an authoritative source) that a SBR must receive additional marking. Reading the material from ATFE thoughtfully provided by SAM1911 in post #18 above, I see nothing to support that. The way the law is written, the manufacturer's markings must be on the SBR. A form 1 is a "request to manufacture" an SBR. You can still use the factory serial, but your name/info must be on the receiver, as well.

sfc_mark
February 23, 2010, 12:30 AM
Well, I just looked at the instructions on the ATF Form 1. It states:

Serial Numbers and other Markings. If an existing firearm is being modified into an NFA firearm, enter the existing serial number of that firearm into item 4g and the name and address of the original manufacturer into item 4a. Do not Alter or Modify the Existing Serial Number. If the NFA firearm is being made from parts, your name and address are to be entered into 4a and a serial number you create is to be entered into item 4g.

(Odd capitalization and emphasis in original.)

Since the unassembled lower receiver is, in fact, an existing firearm according to the law, it would seem that no additional markings are necessary. Anyone with actual working knowledge know different (with relevant cites to authoritative source)?

(I am on a quest for knowledge that I intend to use, not trying to be obstinate or argumentative)

ny32182
February 23, 2010, 08:54 AM
You can keep the serial number from the original mfg since it is already on there. Since you are the manufacturer of the SBR, you or the name of the mfg entity as appropriate must be engraved as well.

Form 1 Process:

1) You buy a rifle lower. It is a regular rifle; not an SBR. You can not legally put on a short upper.
2) You fill out the Form 1, request to manufacture an SBR. You are manufacturing an SBR from parts that include the original rifle lower. You get the stamp back, and sometime in there you engrave your mfg information (Your name, or corporate/llc/trust name and location as applicable)
3) Drop on your upper. Done.

Sample Form 1 engraving:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/ny32182/orion_engraving.jpg

Alternately you can buy a completed SBR from a different manufacturer on a Form 4, and you would not need to do engraving since you are not the manufacturer.

jmorris
February 23, 2010, 10:01 AM
Really? So if I don't own any AR stuff, I can't buy a 11.5" upper to use as a paperweight? Am I REALLLY gonna get in trouble?

If you don’t own any AR stuff you would have no receiver to register. You have to have the serial number on the application. It is for this reason I put the thing together as a pistol, as above, make sure everything works as you want it, have it engraved and once you’re happy send off your F1. Once it comes back you just swap the tube for the stock of your choice, you never have to bite a fingernail wondering if something is going to be wrong that way.

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/gn/sbr.jpg

jmorris
February 23, 2010, 10:03 AM
Oh, and I'm pretty sure you are not going to get away with "multi" anymore.

nalioth
February 23, 2010, 10:48 AM
Really? So if I don't own any AR stuff, I can't buy a 11.5" upper to use as a paperweight? Am I REALLLY gonna get in trouble?
If you don’t own any AR stuff you would have no receiver to register. Please include all associated text when you quote me.

The response you quoted from me was intended to illustrate that simply owning an 11.5" upper and no other AR parts was not illegal, clearing up what MrCleanOK seemed to be saying.

TexasRifleman
February 23, 2010, 12:23 PM
Oh, and I'm pretty sure you are not going to get away with "multi" anymore.

My last one (2 years or so ago) was sent back for "multi" in the caliber and length sections along with a note from the examiner to provide specifics.

I sent it back with a list of every possible length and caliber I could think of and it went through.

waterhouse
February 23, 2010, 01:00 PM
I sent it back with a list of every possible length and caliber I could think of and it went through.

I did the same, with the same result.

jmorris
February 23, 2010, 02:50 PM
The response you quoted from me was intended to illustrate that simply owning an 11.5" upper and no other AR parts was not illegal, clearing up what MrCleanOK seemed to be saying.

I see, this is true, just the same as buying every part of a machinegun except the receiver and not needing any stamp.

sfc_mark
February 23, 2010, 05:20 PM
Oh, and I'm pretty sure you are not going to get away with "multi" anymore.

That is the exact caliber marking on the last two lowers my son bought from Spike's Tactical. I can see them requiring the barrel lengths specified though.

Any idea whether they would accept a range, say 7.5" - 14.5" for the barrel length as opposed to listing each available length in the range?

rfurtkamp
February 23, 2010, 05:56 PM
That is the exact caliber marking on the last two lowers my son bought from Spike's Tactical. I can see them requiring the barrel lengths specified though.


Unfinished receivers don't have a caliber. Your short barrelled rifle will.

Range of barrel length isn't generally accepted either.

Pick what you will assemble first, get the ball rolling, and then send in your letter after approval.

Avoid letting your examiner make choices and hold things up and use whim on your application - and delay your approval. Do it right the first time.

MrCleanOK
February 23, 2010, 06:55 PM
I assumed that nobody will be buying a sub-16" AR upper for paper weight use. If you don't have the means to assemble a sub-16" upper into a working firearm, go right ahead and get as many as you want with no concerns about NFA.

guntrustlawyer
February 28, 2010, 01:22 AM
116575

SBR upper can be purchased without class III. Yet you cannot attach it to anything but a registered SBR lower or machinegun lower.

Solution: Fill out a Form ! and make your own SBR lower for the $200.00 tax. You can use any AR lower.

Marty Seidler
www.guntrustlawyer.net

sneedb82
March 21, 2010, 11:14 PM
Hey Gun Trust Lawyer, Marty, I've been looking for you brother. Hadn't see you in a while. I need to visit with you when you get a chance. Could you email me at: brandon at sneedinc dot com ?????

mp510
March 22, 2010, 12:57 AM
SBR upper can be purchased without class III. Yet you cannot attach it to anything but a registered SBR lower or machinegun lower.

Solution: Fill out a Form ! and make your own SBR lower for the $200.00 tax. You can use any AR lower.
You can also use the upper to build an AR pistol. If you are building an SBR, building a pistol first allows you to play with it before the stamp comes back (and function test it before plunking down the tax in the first place).

During the AWB (and still in a few state that prohibit SBRs), people also use short uppers to make AOWs (basically, AR pistols with vert grips)

Dravur
March 26, 2010, 10:54 AM
Since the unassembled lower receiver is, in fact, an existing firearm according to the law, it would seem that no additional markings are necessary. Anyone with actual working knowledge know different (with relevant cites to authoritative source)?

As far as I have been able to tell, and that includes a letter and verbal confirmation from local ATF agents... Once the lower has a manufacturer and a serial number from said manufacturer... adding a new manufacturer and serial number is redundant and not necessary. Neither of my SBRs have any extra engravings at all.

One of the agents told me that the reason they dont require it and just want to know "Spikes Tactical" and the "original Serial number" is how would they trace "Skippy's Gun Company" He said you might as well engrave "I'm a Wombat" on the receiver.

Now, this iw ahta I got from my local ATF, your mileage may vary.

TexasRifleman
March 26, 2010, 11:03 AM
As far as I have been able to tell, and that includes a letter and verbal confirmation from local ATF agents... Once the lower has a manufacturer and a serial number from said manufacturer... adding a new manufacturer and serial number is redundant and not necessary. Neither of my SBRs have any extra engravings at all.

Tech Branch has issued letters to people contradicting that.

I agree that the reality is that a local ATF agent isn't likely to care at all as long as you have the tax stamp. I've never heard of anyone being prosecuted for it.

But, it could be an add on charge for some other minor incident that gets one sent to prison if Tech Branch is correct that it's required.

Personally I don't ever plan on selling anything so I have had them all engraved anyway just in case.

ETA: Found one.....

http://s149.photobucket.com/albums/s69/Donr101395/?action=view&current=ATFengravingletter.jpg

If you enjoyed reading about "can you buy a SBR upper for a ar without an class 3?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!