S&W Sigma


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KevinR
February 7, 2010, 03:51 PM
Anybody out there had any problems with a S&W Sigma 9 or 40

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highorder
February 7, 2010, 04:06 PM
The factory trigger sucks, but they can be fixed.

Cornhusker77
February 7, 2010, 04:10 PM
I have the SW9VE and never had a problem with it.
The trigger is pretty stiff on purpose, but certainly no worse than a DAO revolver.
Some people say the trigger is gritty, but mine never was.
My CCW instructor split a playing card with mine, so I'd say the accuracy is pretty good.;)

hub
February 7, 2010, 04:21 PM
I've had a sw9ve for a couple of years now and it's been a good handgun for cheap. $250 with two high cap mags and two more free with mail in rebate.

Mine is reliable, pretty accurate and feels great in hand but like everyone says the trigger sucks.

The problem with the trigger isn't just that it is heavy, it's also very gritty feeling. It can be sent back to S&W for a trigger job for free or you can one yourself (better) if you have just a little skill. There are several videos on YouTube how to fix, and it's not too hard. Basically removing or replacing some springs and polishing up some of the internals.

This is one the better detailed one's I have seen, be sure to watch all five different segments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86yn1zCBcw8&feature=related

tntrucknut
February 7, 2010, 04:35 PM
I have the 9mm. My trigger feels gritty also. I have dry fried mine a lot to help "break it in." Has it helped? There's obviously no drastic difference, but it does help, I feel, in getting use to the trigger. When I dry fire, I aim it and try to keep the front sight on my target. Helps me to not concentrate on the heavy trigger, but my target. Correct me if I'm wrong, the sear block can be polished some to smooth the trigger and take the gritty feel out. I would be happy with a smoother trigger, not necessarily a lighter trigger. It has been very reliable and accurate also.

dwhite
February 7, 2010, 04:47 PM
My SW40VE has been great. If the trigger's too much for you, you probably shouldn't be playing with guns. Really people, it isn't that bad.

Mine has been boringly reliable. Eats any and everything. Best $300 I've ever spent for a new gun.

All the Best,
D. White

hub
February 7, 2010, 04:50 PM
With that being said, I don't mind tinkering around with my own firearms so that made the Sigma was a good buy for me. If your looking for a nice factory trigger out the box go with something different or you will probably be disappointed. I think it is a great budget handgun and one of the best as far as price vs quality but for a few hundred more you could upgrade to a M&P, Glock, 24/7, XD, etc.

Just be aware of what you are buying before you buy it, it IS a budget pistol at budget pistol price, don't expect it's trigger to compare to pistols that cost twice as much with out doing some trigger work. Even after the trigger work it is still a budget pistol.

What I don't understand is that everyone likes to bash the Sigma because of the trigger, but alot of the same people praise KEL-TEC for low prices from the factory and then turn around and do a fluff and buff because of heavy gritty trigger pull and talk about how great they are for the money. IMO the Sigma has a better fit and finish than KEL-TEC but both are reliable. Don't get me wrong I own both the sigma and a p11 and think they were both good buys but both needed a little trigger work for me to be happy with them.

Olympus
February 7, 2010, 05:26 PM
Factory trigger does need attention. I have one and I'm not that impressed with it.

possum
February 8, 2010, 01:35 PM
i was raised on the sigma, in .40s&w. it was reliable and accurate, i had no complaints then and i think they are a great deal and value.

deanpf
February 8, 2010, 01:56 PM
I had a problem with mine and it turned out that I hadn't cleaned it well enough and lubed it a little too much.
I was out shooting it and the first mag went fine. As I shot the second one the trigger pull began to get harder each round until I actually used both hands to pull the trigger. I took it home and looked it over and (not knowing too much) couldn't see any reason for it so I took it to my GS and he kept it for a few days. He called me to pick it up after he had done a thorough cleaning and lube and fired 30-40 rounds through it with no problem. :banghead:

That's the only problem I've had. I really don't mind the trigger but I did take out one of the springs.

Arkansas Paul
February 8, 2010, 04:37 PM
I took out one of the springs as well, and have been doing a lot of dry firing to help with it as well. The trigger is heavy on purpose. I'm pleased with mine. I don't know if they're all like this, but mine won't cycle Monarch ammo worth a darn. I was broke when I bought mine so I picked up a box of the Monarch and it jammed about every three rounds. It cycles everything else just fine, even our handloads haven't had a FTF or a FTE. If you're on a budget and are thinking of buying one, I would recommend it.

mljdeckard
February 8, 2010, 04:43 PM
If you search the threads of other people who have asked the exact same question, you will find my story. I don't feel like typing it again.

tiro6
February 8, 2010, 05:10 PM
my sw9ve was my first handgun and i bought it cause i was low on money (paid 325 plus the 50 rebate = 275) and it felt good in the hand. like previously stated, the trigger was pretty gritty and hard to pull but after about 500 rds through it, the trigger smoothed out so its not that gritty anymore (still a heavy trigger though). its been pretty accurate and never had a FTF or FTE after 1000+ round count.

TeamPrecisionIT
February 8, 2010, 05:32 PM
http://thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6038932&postcount=76

And then read the rest of the thread and you will get a lot of good information on them. Seriously, this has been gone over quite a bit and I am sure we do not need to have yet another Sigma thread.

Damian

shockwave
February 8, 2010, 05:43 PM
Gave one a careful look at the toy store, because I'm adding an auto to the lineup. My research was leading me to the Sigma 40. I won't diss the gun because I'm sure it's exactly perfect for others, but for me it didn't feel right.

sarduy
February 9, 2010, 12:22 AM
i own both and the heavy trigger is a feature not a problem.

i like both and they are very accurate. i have no problem carrying them both.

buy it.

http://inlinethumb28.webshots.com/43547/2743599940095461090S600x600Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2743599940095461090ohBLhE)

DocCas
February 9, 2010, 09:08 AM
Best bang for the buck on the market today. Anybody too weak to pull the trigger should probably be in a nursing home, not on the range. :)

RonBernert
February 9, 2010, 10:41 AM
I have both. Great value for the money. Buy it, do the polish on the sear and a good clean and shoot the hell out of it!

hub
February 9, 2010, 02:21 PM
If your really turned off by the Sigma's trigger or lack of safety then another good budget pistol to consider now is the Taurus 24/7. I have seen them regularly go for under $400 lately and to be honest IMO it is a better pistol.

My step sister's boyfriend bought one in .40 s&w a few weeks ago and I shot it last weekend. I think he said he got it for $360 from Bass Pro I believe. It was freezing cold out so we didn't go to the range and the only targets we had on hand was some empty 20oz coke bottles. I placed them (threw hard) off the back porch and loaded it up with some hornady ammo.

I was pretty surprised how nice the DA/SA trigger felt from the factory. No creep and it was pretty crisp, I mean we are not talking glass rod or anything but not bad almost comparable to my Sig p226 considering it was new and not broken in at all. At about 15 yds two hands with no rest, five bottles, five shots, five hits, not too bad. I fired the next ten as fast as I could get the front sight to settle on target and hit probably seven times out of the ten shots.

So while I still think the Sigma is a good deal for a cheap reliable pistol if your willing to tinker with it, especially at $250 with four mags when I bought mine, I think the 24/7 is really hard to beat at around $350-$375. To me the grip felt nice and comfortable, the finish was nice, the sights are way better (Heine's or Novak's) compared to the Sigma's basic plastic combat ramped rear and melted on front, I personally like having the extra safety for carry, and the trigger isn't even in the same ballpark. It also seemed to handle the .40's snappy recoil well too and I was fast back on target with it. We shot four 15 round magazines through it without a hicup and like I said it was the first time it was fired and he hadn't even cleaned the factory crap out of it. When we was done I took it down to clean and that was simple too.

Here is a link to Bud's, I was looking this morning and they are having a 24/7 super sale or something. I don't know if this has been going on for a while or not but it seems like their prices are pretty comparable to others I've seen locally.
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/21_50_881

denfoote
February 10, 2010, 02:04 AM
Nope!!

My SW40F purrs like a kitten and spins like a top!!

smartshooter.45
February 10, 2010, 03:07 AM
sigma 40= absolute WORST factory trigger ive ever had the displeasure of using. i actually thought the gun was broken at first it was so bad.

DocCas
February 10, 2010, 09:50 AM
If you are too weak to pull a 10-12 lb. trigger perhaps you should find another hobby. :)

Warhawk83
February 10, 2010, 12:26 PM
Cas,I had to send mine back to S&W because the trigger was too stiff. I'm not too weak but I have arthritis in my trigger finger.

I tried the wolf springs and they malfunctioned. I couldn't even get the slide off. Sent it back and now it is only slightly stiffer than a Glock and no longer gritty.

j21blackjack
February 10, 2010, 01:00 PM
I don't understand all the whining about the Sigma trigger. It's probably one of the easiest fixes ever on a pistol trigger. It took me all of 15 minutes to make my Sigma .40's trigger smooth and sweet. Have none of you people Googled "Sigma trigger fix"? Seriously?!?

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/non-xd-handguns/101197-sigma-trigger-fix.html

It even has pictures so everyone can understand how to do it.

RonBernert
February 10, 2010, 02:03 PM
I don't understand all the whining about the Sigma trigger. It's probably one of the easiest fixes ever on a pistol trigger. It took me all of 15 minutes to make my Sigma .40's trigger smooth and sweet. Have none of you people Googled "Sigma trigger fix"? Seriously?!?

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/non-xd-handguns/101197-sigma-trigger-fix.html

It even has pictures so everyone can understand how to do it.
^+1!^ Best bang for the buck!

wild cat mccane
February 10, 2010, 03:11 PM
Agreed on the Taurus. Millenium Pro or 24/7 have more features. 20-60$ more

Volfy
February 10, 2010, 06:09 PM
I like Taurus and own 2 of them. However, any Mill Pro or 24/7 is likely to be quite a bit more compared to the $299 Sigma plus either $50 off or 2 free mags.

The only Taurus money deal that really beats the Sigma is the $299 PT-101P if you caught it on sale at Academy.

cskny
February 14, 2010, 08:48 AM
All the hype…all the internet bologna….all the people who talk and repeat probably without ever even touching one…

Yet, when you ask the people that ACTUALLY OWN THEM you get the same answer over and over: Solid, reliable gun with a lifetime warranty from a customer centric company. I really wish those that don’t know them would stop talking about them because everyone that reads it seems to believe them.

I have the 9mm sigma. At least 1000 rounds, no functional problems. $260 after rebates w/2 mags and a nice case. Its ergonomics are great. Mine is also dead on accurate, very nice.

About the trigger:

The trigger is strong and can be gritty. It’s all well documented. The gritty part comes from how the sear is rough and unpolished and when it moves along the plastic inside the trigger assembly, it gives a gritty feeling. If you polish it (takes about 15-30 minutes depending on how comfortable you are with tools), that gritty part will completely go away.

The “heavy” part comes from the design and the combination of springs that they used in both the trigger assembly AND the striker assembly. There are 2 minute changes you can make to the spring layout in the trigger assembly that reduce the pull tremendously without effecting the reliability. However, the lower striker spring from wolf, while it does further reduce trigger pull, also adds some FTF possibilities because it reduces the amount of force the firing pin hits the primer with.

If you don’t want to do the above 2 steps and can’t live with the trigger out of the box, make a different choice I guess. But I agree, even out of the box the trigger does not require a team of horses to pull, like the internet would have you think. It’s VERY useable for defensive purposes but isn’t a target shooter’s dream.

Actually, I personally LOVE to work on mechanical systems/take things apart, so I enjoyed fiddling with it and seeing how it worked and how to improve it.

What I don’t like, the proprietary front rail. While an adapter is about $10 on ebay, it’s stupid, they should have just molded something standard to start with. The adapter just looks poor in my opinion.

When you take the glock 17 apart and then take the Sigma apart right next to it, I PROMISE, you will understand why there was a lawsuit. These guns are so close in parts and design it’s silly. I was almost tempted to see how many parts could interchange, because they literally use the exact same design concept/layout inside. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise HAS NOT taken them apart and looked.

swampboy
February 14, 2010, 09:08 AM
You know cskny, you had me very interested with your post. That is until I dug a little deeper. It seems that the S&W rebate/mag deal expired in Dec. 09 and looking at the availability/price of spare mags, I'm now officially scared away.

I like to have six or eight mags per gun and at $40-$50 each, that would more than eat up any savings versus a G19. They look like interesting pistols though.

If I ever find a source for reasonably priced factory mags and can pick a SW9VE up for around $250-$275, I'll definitely check them out.

cskny
February 14, 2010, 09:47 AM
First, I could care less if you buy one. No offense intended, but that's your decision.

BUT, for the record:

The rebate was extended through April 2010, just go to:

http://www.smith-wesson.com

Halfway down the page, you will see an updated ad that cycles saying they have extended it. If you can't, try this link:

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CustomContentDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&content=755001&sectionId=10002

In addition, I just purchased 3 more factory mags on gunbroker for $58 delivered. That's about $19.33 each. I suspect with a touch of effort you could get a similar deal, there was nothing special about it.

Good luck with your decision.

cskny
February 14, 2010, 09:56 AM
Hey swampboy,

Just re-read my response to you and it sounds kinda "harsh". I really didn't mean it that way, sorry about that.

All I really meant was, I'm not trying to influence anyone's decision about what to buy, just trying to share some factual information.

As far as a gun, the Sigma really does stack up nicely and is absolutely a solid choice in my opinion. However, there are a lot of aftermarket things out there for Glock and that is also nice. I would love a .22 conversion kit so I could practice with the same frame and cheaper ammo. No such kit for the sigma (that I know of), but there's a kit/part for just about any change you want to make on the glock.

I think it really depends on what you want it for.

swampboy
February 14, 2010, 09:57 AM
First, I could care less if you buy one. No offense intended, but that's your decision.

Ah..well..O.K.

The rebate was extended through April 2010, just go to:

http://www.smith-wesson.com


Ah..thanks.

jmr40
February 14, 2010, 10:16 AM
When the Sigmas first came out they were truly pathetic. I bought one in 1998 that took 6 months, and 3 trips back to S&W before 40 rounds could be fired through the gun. They finally sent me a new gun, which I never took delivery on. I let the dealer keep it new as trade on a Glock.

I know they have corrrected the problems and the new guns are probably a bargain. But it is horror stories like mine from years ago that people still hear about. That is why many people who have never tried one won't.

cskny
February 14, 2010, 10:46 AM
The newer version is not that older model, plain and simple. When people are asking for opinions on the Sigma, they are asking about the new model but SO many people give them opinions about the older version without clarifying.

Too bad for the people that can't get over the old impressions of a different version, they are missing out on a reliable bargain.

It seems to me that S&W would have been well served to re-name this gun when they redesigned it to clarify that it's not the older version with the poor track record.

jahwarrior
February 14, 2010, 10:50 AM
i had the 9VE. it's a decent gun. had no issues until i reached 2,000 rounds, after which i started having mag drops while firing, and a few jams. i sent it back to S&W, and they replaced nearly everything but the frame and barrel. the trigger will smooth out over time on its own; there's no real need to change the springs, or anything. it's not a target gun, but it's accurate enough for self defense.

lathedog
February 14, 2010, 10:30 PM
I bought a SW40VE when they first came out, for $269 I think. I've had it about 15 years. I have only shot a couple hundred rounds thru it but never had any failures. I need to really slam mags home as the catch feels like it is barely engaging; this may be due to an early gun.

I personally don't like the way the trigger feels more due to the way it hinges in the middle. It is heavy and a little bit gritty, but it is has a clean break and very little overtravel. I do like the grip's angle and shape.

CDNN has a good price on LE only marked magazines recently, in case you lose out on the factory rebate.

For a new handgun there is very little out there that matches the quality for the price. I've seen SW9VE's at local stores for $300ish recently.

I also would like to see more "stuff" available for them, like 22 conversion units. I have also never seen any parts like extended or ported barrels like you can get for Glock's et al.

HspncElvis
October 7, 2010, 01:08 PM
My SW40VE has been great. If the trigger's too much for you, you probably shouldn't be playing with guns. Really people, it isn't that bad.

Mine has been boringly reliable. Eats any and everything. Best $300 I've ever spent for a new gun.

All the Best,
D. White
I agree with DWhite. Trigger is a bit heavy, but no big deal. You get used to it. The more rounds you pur through it it'll loosen up. I think my SW9VE is great!!

writerinmo
October 7, 2010, 10:13 PM
The current models are fighting the stigma that was attached to the truly terrible first generation Sigma's. If you still have one and send it in for repair, S&W sends you a completely new pistol.

The new ones are just fine. I EDC a SW40VE and shoot it every time I get the chance. Listen to those who own and shoot them, not the anti-tupperware codgers.

HspncElvis
October 7, 2010, 10:31 PM
I really like my SW9VE. I have not had any problems with it. Trigger is a bit tough, but that'll get better the more rounds I put through it. I'd recommend S/W Sigma 9mm in a heart beat!

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