[trol79]

Hi, I've read many treads about comparing rifles and shotguns. I think comparing a closequaters weapon to a medium or longrange weapon isn't that "fair". so I thought of starting a Shotgun vs. SMG thread would be more interesting since both are CQC weapons. If you like you can also bring flamethrowers, full-auto pistols or something likely in to discussion.

[Floppy_D]

I can't hit moving clays with an MP5 for squat.

[zhyla]

There was a carbine vs shotgun thread a while ago. It was thoroughly unproductive. Unless you've actually got access to an SMG and can afford one I don't really see the point of talking about it. I'd like an HK UMP or something like that, but my government and pocket book say otherwise.

[9mmepiphany]

availablility would be the big drawback.

however i have used them both at work and much prefer the sub.gun for precision work. my favorite was the H&K MP-5SD...very accurate, great sights and the suppressor really made it easy to use indoors

[bullturkey]

How about a full auto Saiga 12 with slugs?

[Aka Zero]

Full auto 8" tromix saiga 12..... is that a sub machine gun?

[MCgunner]

I can't hit moving clays with an MP5 for squat.

Or doves, either. :D

[devildog32713]

how about a full auto saiga 12 with slugs?

shoulder surgery

[devildog32713]

I have to got to hold a few at gunshows, haven't actually fired a SMG before tho, expensive!!

[Heljac]

I would consider it a HMG!:D

[twisted1600]

I like that idea!

[MikePGS]

I can't hit moving clays with an MP5 for squat.
Pshaw. I read about a guy named Henry Bowman who could hit clays with an Elephant gun, hur hur hur.

[oneounceload]

My main concern would be afterwards - when the cops take the gun until after the investigation. Well that, and the holes in the ceiling with the muzzle climb...... :D

[devildog32713]

I can't hit moving clays with an MP5 for squat.

Have you tried?? Maybe you need more time at the trap house.

[Independent]

Combine the two concepts and you wind up with this:
http://gizmodo.com/324453/recoilless-auto-shotgun-fires-300-rounds-per-minute-no-cleaning-or-lube-required

[Gord]

Keep in mind OP is not from the US (Germany) so try to keep the snark to a minimum - the poor guy doesn't know that we suck and HK hates us :D

[foghornl]

I have fired both a Thompson and a WWII vintage MP40. Fun, but not really practical FOR ME. Your Mileage Will Vary, of course.

I'll stick with the Mossberg 500 for close-quater stuff.

[Shear_stress]

Having fired a few submachineguns in my day, I'm not sure what, apart from being more compact and lighter recoiling, they can handle that a shotgun loaded with buckshot can't. If longer range shots are needed than I wouldn't reach for a shotgun or submachinegun.

[Girodin]

how about a full auto saiga 12 with slugs?


shoulder surgery

Not with a saiga. They are very soft shooting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_zIrgtv1J0

IF this little kid can handle full auto with bird shot slugs shouldn't be much of a problem for an adult who knows how to shoot.

[QUOTE]Well that, and the holes in the ceiling with the muzzle climb......

Tyere are lots of very manageable SMGs. If you were referencing the 12 gauge, as you can see they can be pretty manageable as well

[Hk Dan]

I'm losing some faith in shotguns. I used to be in the "no better fight stopper" category, but after talking with a couple of people--an EMT and a trauma surgeon, face to face and several experts with data posted online--I'm not any more.

I reckon I'd take the subgun, even a semi auto subgun, in a service caliber pistol round over a 12 gauge shot load. I wouldn't do slugs at all.

Dan

[Gordon]

The MP5 is a very practical 0-100 yard gun. I can keep it on your chest FA at 50 yards or dink you in the head at 100 single fire. In the civilian real world the shotgun is much the preferred defensive weapon. Sub Guns are more offensive in nature nicht wahr?

[amd6547]

There is no doubt that some US fighting men prefered the shotgun, even when they had their choice of SMG's both foreign and domestic. Myself, I would choose the SMG.

[LeonCarr]

For overall versatility, The Gauge.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[Deadbolt]

i honestly hit a clay with my yugo m24/47 mauser.


I was sandbagging it and zeroing in on a high elevation 175yard steel plate.

As im about 65% into settle for the target, the folks next to me's hand tossed clay comes zooming into vision - i say , <...> ill track it - i break spot and hear the bro next to me fire, miss, the whole im im on it, POWWW


8mm mauser round through the clay


no. No i could probably never do it again lol total luck,


Submac = spray n pray - if i ever saw anyone skeet shooting with a submac id of that area :what:

[jmortimer]

Here is older (2005) post from Iraq - 590 got thumbs up for clearing houses http://newenglandconservative.blogspot.com/2005/11/marine-reports-on-weapons-used-in-iraq.html
AA12 looks nice - would rather have it over a SMG or a Saiga http://www.strategypage.com/the_war_in_iraq/weapons/200551803120.asp
http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=262

[Girodin]

AA12 looks nice - would rather have it over a SMG or a Saiga

While I have never shot the AA 12 on paper and based on reports of issues with AA 12 I think the S12 (a well modified purpose built S12 that is) is a superior weapon.

[BushyGuy]

rather a 870 filled with double 00 buckshot,at least you will have more space hit then with slugs