[camslam]

Strategy and Tactics.

Yeah, I just read the "new announcement" from the moderator regarding Strategy and Tactics, and I am left to wonder once again what the heck is going on at The High Road.org? Maybe I am way out in left field on this one, but I guess I got to the point, where I needed to say something.

This post may get deleted, I may get a warning, or might even get thrown out for "calling out" some of the interesting acts that I have seen take place, but at this point, oh well....

Over the course of especially the last couple of years, I have watched with fascination the "moderation" that has taken place in Strategy and Tactics. In fact it is that "moderation" and the attitudes associated with it that has led to a direct drop in my involvement on the overall site. It is almost as though the Stategy and Tactics forum is now the "Holy of Holies" when it comes to internet forums, especially when a gun or self defense is involved.

I have watched people get threads closed, and seen all sorts of self righteous comments made by those that are "moderating" justified in the name of keeping with "how things are done" in S&T.

I guess it has gotten to the point that when I read the latest offering from the moderators for that forum, I had to ask, "Are we perhaps now taking ourselves a bit too serious." But hey, what do I know, I'm just one of the lackeys that used to read and post in that forum. :)

I for one, got a lot out of that forum, it made me question many of my previously preconceived ideas about defending my home, my family, and my life. There were plenty of great discussions that directly related to each of those things that often times got closed because they just didn't fit into what a couple of people thought S&T should be.

I think the most interesting thing is the fact that apparently those of us "lackeys" reading the stuff, weren't blessed with big enough brains to figure out what items were worthwhile and which were not. Maybe in my next life I'll figure it out. :)

Enough of my rant, sorry for offending any that worship in the house of Strategy and Tactics, but wow, what an interesting place that has become. :scrutiny:

[paintballdude902]

ive noticed alot of changes too since i first joined. but hey stuff changes and if we dont like it we can leave


it would be nice if we could just make it so nothing would change but hey i also wish i was still in high school and living at home when i had a good job and extra money to allow me to buy a gun a month but nope its not happening.


nothing we can do but change with it

[Justin]

I guess it has gotten to the point that when I read the latest offering from the moderators for that forum, I had to ask, "Are we perhaps now taking ourselves a bit too serious."

Strategies and Tactics is a forum dedicated to discussing the use of lethal force in the context of real-world self defense. To my mind, perhaps discussions about such a weighty topic ought to be taken seriously.

[Art Eatman]

Second-hand, since I don't moderate there nor browse there all that often:

As with some other forums, there are just enough clueless folks who refuse to believe that their ideas just flat-out aren't worth being taken seriously. They can disrupt a thread by diverting from the path of rational thought into the trap of terminal stupidity. Expertise via Hollywood, I guess.

Another type is the one who won't learn the law nor exercise common sense, and operates under the cutesie-poo dictum of "Killlemall and let God sortemout." Mr. Macho Man and his ilk. Again, a thread-cruncher.

A newbie might take these clowns as having some sort of real-world expertise.

I dunno. About forty years back, my father commented, "The reason people don't think is because they don't have anything to think with." At the time, I thought that was pretty cynical.

After eleven years of moderating at TFL and here at THR, I've come to think that he probably was correct.

Some fella said that what people don't know isn't the problem; it's what they know that's not so. What I've noticed is that, quite often, the less somebody knows about a subject, the stronger their opinion.

That can give moderators the screaming grumpfies.

[camslam]

Justin: I would totally concur. My point is, if you read or have read most of the posts, topics, etc.. that have been posted in that forum, I believe most are relevant, informative, or prepare yourself, entertaining.

Self defense and the use of any weapon in particular a gun is serious business, but it seems that the attitude that has moderated S&T for quite some time is to say the least, heavy handed, and if someone's thoughts, comments, or opinions don't match up with or fall into the specific paradigm of a couple of people, it just won't do.

Most moderators on THR do an excellent job of moderating, monitoring, posting, sharing, directing, and participating, all without coming across as though they know everything that has ever been written, said, experienced, thought, or acted on when it comes to a certain topic.

To those moderators, I say thank you, I guess it is easy to figure out I don't think that is the case in S&T.

But hey, that is just my opinion, I guess after a couple of years I decided to say something about the direction and attitude that S&T has taken, but enough said. As was mentioned, it is my choice to participate and read the stuff or not, so I'll be a big boy and keep my choice to myself.

[camslam]

One more quick thought:

Justin and Art, your posts are exactly what I'm talking about. Neither of them is self righteous, judgemental, beligerent, or petty; both were straightforward giving relevant thoughts on how you see it.

I guess my overall gripe isn't so much what is being said by some, but more how they are saying it both in tone and attitude.

[FROGO207]

Being able to please half the membership half the time is a full time job.:banghead: I for one am happy that I do not moderate anywhere.:cool:

[leadcounsel]

So- all it takes is to register... seems like a NON- hurdle, really.... price of admission is about as close to nothing as you can get...

[camslam]

Lead: Read the sticky at the top. I wasn't talking about the members only aspect.

[jakemccoy]

I left another popular forum because most of the threads read like a video game description. I appreciate the seriousness of the moderators on THR, even though sometimes it's irritating because I have a vivid imagination. I figure that the THR is not the place for me to indulge in far-out scenarios. For example, anything that's about TEOTWAWKI usually gets shut down. Sometimes, it's a drag because some of these threads are interesting and have useful information. However, having too many of these threads would attract that crowd that enjoys watching Rambo for survival tips. That's a bad thing. In the grand scheme of things, erring on the "too serious" side results in a net gain.

[TCB in TN]

As with some other forums, there are just enough clueless folks who refuse to believe that their ideas just flat-out aren't worth being taken seriously. They can disrupt a thread by diverting from the path of rational thought into the trap of terminal stupidity. Expertise via Hollywood, I guess.

I guess I would like to chime in just a little on this. I completely agree with the above, my only comment is that instead of closing entire threads, how about either modifying the post or having a little private discussion with the poster! (and if I say something stupid the feel free to let me know about it). It just gets old seeing good threads closed because a couple of people are clueless!

[Larry Ashcraft]

how about either modifying the post or having a little private discussion with the poster
Problem with that is, it takes a TON of time. And even if we were to take the time, you end up with a butchered thread that doesn't reflect the views of the posters at all. And, we do respect the views of the posters, without them we don't have a forum.

This is a labor of love for us, especially for the last year and a half, but we DO still have lives elsewhere.

Speaking of which, the Super Bowl is on. See you guys later.

[earlthegoat2]

First of all, this is NOT a heavily moderated forum. Our moderators can only do so much anyway. It is a time consuming business. It could stand to be a little more strict at times I would think.

In the end though once you get used to the rules and how they are enforced you will like it better. I know you are reacting to the sticky but I dont think the sticky is anything to get too up tight about. It is just fair warning.

I have never been suspended from a forum before but I have had plenty of posts deleted and threads locked.

Believe me when I tell you this:

If you have had posts deleted and threads locked then cheer for joy because you are in good company. Anyone who posts will have this happen sooner or later. Maybe you make a mistake or misinterpret something but it will happen.

I started a thread once with all the best intentions and it got locked by moderator within 30 seconds. Wowsers. You just shrug and move one. I dont take it personally.

Speaking of which, the Super Bowl is on. See you guys later.

Yeah, I see it over my shoulder. I cannot sit and watch TV for long before I am back on the internet.

[Gouranga]

Expertise via Hollywood, I guess.

Question on this though...is it also not worth on a LIMITED basis to humor these folks and debate/call them out on it? If for no other reason to educate the masses on the utter unrealistic expectation/beliefs. I have seen many rational and educated folks post against those with actual facts, stats, etc and include references that have helped dispel some serious misconceptions that I originally carried into the forums.

There are a million and one posts and thread out there in the internet with these misconceptions, internet Rambos, etc. I think having an occasional forum that takes them on giving REAL facts and information is very useful. Maybe I give folks too much credit, but I think it becomes obvious quickly when informative folks start burying the less than informative in facts.

All that being said, it's your server, not mine so run the place as you see fit...the rest of us are here for the ride.

[Larry Ashcraft]

You just shrug and move on. I dont take it personally.
Wise advice.

The biggest problem members are those who get their feelings hurt when things don't go their way. Then we get the drama queen "delete my account" posts.

The reason I hang around here is the quality of the members, but the bigger we get, the more riff raff will join in.

Just the nature of the beast, I guess.

*Shrug*

[Webbj0219]

For me personally, Ive had good experience with the Mods here. One time I wasnt thinking and posted something pretty low road. I ended up getting into an argument with another member and hijacking a perfectly good thread in the process. After I posted this I was thinking about what I posted while I was taking a shower for work. Realized what I did, really started regreting it. So I wanted to get back quick to delete it. Right outa the shower im back on here to try and delete my last posts. But they were already deleted. I was kinda impressed. Kinda saved another member's and my own good face and kept the thread on track.

[BluEyes]

Guess I've not been here long enough. There are more closed threads on THR as a whole than other BB's (of many topics) I've been on, but even if I disagree with a thread being closed I have always been able to understand why.

As a side note, Art has a great point about people needing to un-learn things. That's how internet rumors/urban legends live on. I have found one of the biggest things as I have grown up is simply admitting how much I don't know and learning to say "I don't know" more often.

[billybobjoe]

This is a big forum, no need to eat up data with off topic stuff. There have been times I've wanted to make a comment, but the post is closed. A first I feel a little frustrated, but then I realize that to have done so would have really been a waste of time.

[U.S.SFC_RET]

I dunno. About forty years back, my father commented, "The reason people don't think is because they don't have anything to think with."

Through all my dealings with people I can lean towards agreeing with that statement.
THR is supposed to be a respected forum.

The high road is not free speech forum.

[camslam]

Couple of thoughts and clarifications:

1. I've never had a thread closed, and I think I've had one post deleted, by Lee Lapin in my whole time here (he actually threw out a whole bunch of posts in that thread). This isn't a case of crying over spilt milk.

2. I would agree with 98% of what has been posted above, my issue is not with moderation, my issue is with heavy handed, narrow minded, self righteous, know it all, my way or the highway moderation. I simply don't think that is necessary and anybody that has spent any significant time in Strategy and Tactics over the last couple of years can clearly see a lot of that.

3. I am fully capable of understanding the need to keep things High Road, and each of us is a guest, but it obviously has gotten to the point where I wanted to gripe about it. I haven't complained about the site in general, I specifically pointed out where I had an issue and what I thought it was.

4. Free speech and such aside, if The High Road or any other place to gather and share ideas, experiences, thoughts, and opinions, becomes the way I believe S&T has become, eventually you lose people that will be a great loss. I wouldn't be one of them, but I have learned a great deal from numerous members and moderators, and at some point people just decide they have better places to be.

Just my $.02 and it literally is worth about $.02. ;)

[hso]

Ok, let us take the announcement about S&T and take it apart.

After discussion, the staff of THR has decided to make the Strategies and Tactics Forum accessible to THR members only. This change is being announced to the membership in advance in an effort to avoid confusion and concern over a suddenly 'missing' forum.

This means that S&T will only be visible to members of THR. Folks outside of the forum won't be able to see it and those just viewing without joining up won't be able to see it. Since we're all members here it is the difference that makes no difference.

Discussions in S&T sometimes involve real world events, legal situations and other matters of a nature such that a greater amount of privacy is warranted for those discussions. Making S&T viewable only to logged in THR members should provide this needed level of privacy.

We're making it available to folks who are already members because there are real instances of self defense discussed and we consider your privacy important enough to change the settings on the forum that someone just casually looking won't see the threads and posts there.

There are no more restrictions planned for gaining access to S&T beyond being a registered member of THR and being logged in. However, the same expectations of mature and helpful behavior in S&T will remain in place as have existed previously. Please familiarize yourself with the rules for S&T which are posted in that forum before participating there. Nothings changed except that folks that aren't members can't see the discussions. Please keep the level of the discussions as high we've had them.

In summary, we're making the place only "seeable" by folks already signed up with THR. We hope that this will protect the privacy of people who post about real self defense incidents. Nothing else is going to change from where it was yesterday.

my issue is with heavy handed, narrow minded, self righteous, know it all, my way or the highway moderation.
The concern expressed appears to be in the specific style of moderation in S&T. Have PMs/Emails been exchanged expressing concern over this? Have any questions been asked about why certain things have been done the way they have? The 'announcement' is pretty innocuous. I guess it was just the trigger for the reaction to a building concern over moderation style. Perhaps an extended conversation with the moderator would help. We all can learn from others, Mods not different than anyone else, but that requires and exchange of idea. Perhaps it's time for that?

[BullfrogKen]

Is it Lee Lapin's new sticky at the top of S&T?

Changes in S&T... (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=503303)


Rather than beat around the bush, who specifically is it that you have a problem with and which posts make you feel this way? Send them via PM to the "Staff" account if you don't want to comment on the specifics publicly.

[jakemccoy]

If there's any consolation to anybody who gets pissed around here, it's just a niche Internet forum. Let's keep things in perspective.

[Gord]

I dislike these threads because it's very rare for the OP to actually go into specifics about the "heavy-handed moderation" that is usually the chief complaint, therefore the thread is essentially valueless. Specifics help the mods address the perceived unjustice, and may also result in a few helpful posts from members who have "been there, done that" with regards to having had their posts moderated under similar circumstances - they can usually help you work out the reasoning behind whatever went down.

As far as "entertaining" goes, that is not a word that should ever apply to a S&T thread, ever. We've got General and the platform-specific subforums to goof off about zombies or tell our weapon-related in-jokes; S&T is for serious discussion and review of situations that could have - or may in the future - result in the death of a human being by the soundness of the discussion being put forth therein. Why you'd go looking for yuks knowing that is beyond me.

[TimboKhan]

People complain about heavy-handedness, but what isn't realized is that this is a very specific forum dedicated to some very specific points of discussion. On some ways, I can see the complaint: There are certain topics of discussion that are shut down immediately, and not every single post lives on in a thread. On the surface, that seems unfair.

This can seem unfair, and when I first joined THR I enjoyed the occasional TEOTWAWKI/Zombie discussion. Then, after a while, I realized that A: there were an awful lot of them and B: Mostly they were pretty stupid. The political forum we used to have was a nightmare of flame wars and discussions of non-gun related topics (such as immigration) and frankly, there were some cases of posts specifically designed to incite a reaction.

So, after awhile, I came to enjoy the tightening of the rules. I don't want to read a thread that gets derailed by some jerk halfway through, nor do I particularly want to read yet another persons opinion on which gun is best for the zombie hordes. As mentioned, we are NOT a free speech forum. We join this forum after agreeing to a very specific set of rules and are expected to adhere to those rules. Why do you think that our forum, by and large, has posts that are readable and fairly well written? It's because people that write things like "HAHA DEAGLEZ PWN NOOBS!!! WHAT GUN CAN KILL WITH 1SHOT FROM 1000 YARDS WITH LASERZ N STUFF? U R L33T IF U NO!" don't survive in this forum. Now, there can and will be disagreements. Mod A, B, and C might all do something a little differently, and I might disagree with one, two or all three of them. But, two things come into play that keep me coming back here: 1. It's a forum, and ultimately I don't care all that much if a post of mine does get deleted. I obviously don't write stuff intentionally edgy to test those limits, but I have had a post or two deleted and I didn't take it personally. 2. I don't have to come here. There are several forums that I have visited, decided I didn't like for one reason or another, and simply have never gone back to. No big deal.

The other thing is, there are things I like to discuss that aren't particularly suited to THR. I am a member of EDC forum because I like to read about bags and other stuff. I can't nor do I particularly want to talk about why I like the Maxpedition Kodiak over the Sitka on THR. It simply isn't an appropriate discussion here. Same is true to a different degree of Bladeforum and the same is true of a couple of the cooking forums I participate in. THR is my favorite and most participated in forum, but it doesn't serve every interest I have, nor should it.

[bikerdoc]

I find your thinly veiled attack on one man, offensive, and petulant.

I suspect you are trolling to start a flame war, or trying to commit disenrollment by moderator.

Either way, congrats, you are the first to hit my ignore list.

[camslam]

I find your thinly veiled attack on one man, offensive, and petulant.

I suspect you are trolling to start a flame war, or trying to commit disenrollment by moderator.

Either way, congrats, you are the first to hit my ignore list.

ding, ding, ding.... We have a winner! ;)

While I am not a moderator here, I would say after this last post, we can safely put a nail in the coffin of this thread. While I am obviously all for expressing opinions, this thread isn't going anywhere productive.

Thanks for letting me rant a bit and I'll adjust my viewing preferences in the future and not waste time complaining about things that aren't going to change.

Cheers.

[waldonbuddy]

You know I come here from the Firing Line forum exactly for the reason of heavy handed moderators there.

I as most of you have more than one interest thus many forums that I frequent, but the FL had to be the most restrictive forum that I have ever been to.

I like to be able to judge for myself if I like or don't like a particular thread. If I start reading a thread that bores me, pisses me off, etc. then guess what, I stop reading it.
However, I don't mind that the tread stays since there might be someone else who is enjoying the thread.

If everyone thinks about it WE are the forum. Without our comments, questions, replies, there would only be a FAQ on a web page.

I have see some really mild mannered people who became moderators then went on to be forum dictators, locking nearly every thread posted and stagnating the forum. I have also been on forums that absolutely will not allow any new posts with topics that have been discussed before. Said forum has turned into an archive since there are almost never any new posts.

Having said all of this, I like the High Road since {IMO} it has the least locked posts of most of the gun related forums I visit. I cannot comment on the sub forum of the OP since I have never visited it, but if it is getting to heavy handed then IMO keep in mind the main point of my post today, and loosen up.

[CoRoMo]

This is a labor of love for us, especially for the last year and a half...

Why so?

Post #24 hit the nail here. Without any specific example of what canslam is "calling out", I can't relate. I think the moderation here has been fine tuned to alleviate the problems that inevitably arise whenever, as Larry said, more & more riff raff join in.

[BullfrogKen]

bikerdoc, I wouldn't go as far as to suggest it's trolling, to an attempt to get ones self banned. After all, the thread still exists, right?


I'd still like to know some particulars. Hard to do anything about vagueries and feelings about perceptions.

[jakemccoy]

Folks, if I ever run a free Internet forum, I'll reserve the right to close any thread that doesn't interest me. I'd go ahead and make that a "catch all" rule too.

[Dimis]

On the defense of our mods ive posted many times that I believe they do a great job

Anyone who saw my post after the last "goodbye" posting knows this

It's not an easy job and you cant please everyone all the time

the generalization of your complaint makes it evident that your complaint isn't well thought out enough to need justification

Mr Lapin has censored me on a few occasions and on those occasions I've had the decency to send a PM and it was answered not only promptly but courteously and very well explained and that was the end of my temper tantrum

Every mod or admin for that matter that Ii have had words with has been solved in a rational respectful manner

The S&T section doesn't need humor in it period and we as THR members are lucky to have that section even available to us

The idea that nonsensical whimsical or just plain mislead posts are deleted is a service to the rest of us we don't need mall ninjas, Rambo wannabes or armchair commandos telling us bad information when our lives are at stake; that's SERIOUS business

Don't get me wrong i like many of you feel that if the SHTF or TEOTWAWKI ever happened id like to be a "hero" but realistically all we can do is try and survive and leave the real heroes to do the job

The only thing in the post by Mr Lapin that would cause me concern is the mention of other forums that only allow participation by true credentialed "professionals" i hope that S&T never comes to that I personally would rather see that section closed forever than see it only open for pros but that's only because I believe every man woman and child has the right to defend themselves the best they can... and the only way that we as civilians can do that is to have training and good open honest professional discussion and as far as I know THR is the only place I've found where that is a possibility

Until these posts give an actual specific case of something being wrongly removed I think we need a mod to remove them

Mr Lapin keep up the good work

[Walkalong]

The mods do an almost thankless job of keeping this forum civil, intelligent, and focused on firearms. No easy job.

As stated by a mod earlier in the thread, it is a labor of love for most. They want THR to continue as a viable forum. Something that will not happen without guidance, leadership, and the occasional deleted posts and locked threads. The other unfortunate part of forums are folks who just want to cause trouble. They must be weeded out and run off, no question about it.

After reading stuff here and there on some forums, and wanting to join one to learn more about the hobby I love, I joined THR because it was so much more mature and civil than most. Some forums are like stepping into a 4th grade classroom full of problem children.

Early on here I had a couple of posts deleted, and was given some excellent advise on one other particular post. Instead of pissin' & moanin' about it, I learned from it. :)

[Fred Fuller]

camslam,

Since there's only one name in the moderator box at S&T, it isn't too much effort to guess who you're talking about.

If it's the new sticky that is responsible for this thread, the one at http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=503303 , it might interest you to know that the list is a sort of rough draft of the simplified list of rules that's yet to come. That's mentioned in the sentence just before the enumerated list begins, in what I thought would be a logical sequence to explain the purpose of the list.

If you or anyone else wants to see the existing version of the rules for S&T, they're gathered in several threads in a link stickied at http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=464413 . That compilation of links was done (by me) in an effort to clean up the several different links to various 'rules' threads that had accumulated over the years and at the hands of several different staff members who had handled S&T in the past. Stickied threads tend to accumulate, and I wanted to make more room on the index page. Thus the compilation, and thus the eventual simplified list, once it's finally hashed out.

There isn't much else I have to say, or can say, or need to say. My philosophy re. S&T, such as it is, has been posted at http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=458622 since the middle of 2009. That thread has been open for discussion. It was discussed when it was started, and it's back on the front page right now, still being discussed.

It isn't possible for me to be all things to all people. The last thing I expected to do when I got handed a staff position here was to moderate S&T. The only reason I can think of for that to have happened was that I shared a similar attitude to self defense in several respects to those who were previously responsible for that forum. I hasten to add that so far as qualifications for the job go, I suffer considerably in comparison to my predecessors. It's safe to assume that my presence there now is confirmation of the old saw that good help is hard to find, especially good help that's free.

And yet not a week has gone by since someone in S&T informed my predecessor in the role of moderator there that his approach was "too academic." I find it fascinating that someone would tell one of the men responsible for helping stage the National Tactical Invitational for some years now (among other things) that his approach to anything regarding self defense was "too academic."

There sure is a tough crowd around here, it seems. I'm just sorry that none of us who handle S&T can measure up.

lpl

[mcdonl]

I guess the only problem I have with THR is it's the only facet of my life that humor is not only frowned upon but censored. Sure, it's just a web site but it is like the morning paper or evening news is to some people - a part of my routine.

I know we are here to talk about guns and gun related topics but isn't it a bit much to have posts deleted just because someone uses humor in their post?

I really like it here, and there are a lot of cool people but I also think that sometimes people need to lighten up and laugh every now and again. Life is not all ballistic coefficients and S&T... at least mine isn't.

[Mal H]

Ok, I've got to disagree with that observation, mcdonl. We are definitely not against humor, and we rarely if ever delete a post that has true humor in it if it is one in a thread that is generally on topic. What we don't allow perhaps is threads starting off for the sole purpose of being joke or humor threads, or "humor" that gets out of hand or gets too personal.

I know it's difficult to state with certainty that a humor post has been deleted because you can't see them, but if you can recall a thread that you think had a post deleted solely because it was humorous, please point it out. I would like to take a look.

Bottom line - we are not dull, humorless, automatons here, but THR does have a stated mission and a fairly narrow range of topics allowed. Adding a bit of humor in the middle, without going to an extreme, isn't disallowed.

[Jorg]

I know we are here to talk about guns and gun related topics but isn't it a bit much to have posts deleted just because someone uses humor in their post?
You know, mcdonl, I think you're being a bit disingenuous. You seem to be under the impression that your post was deleted because you used humor. While I would contend that your post really wasn't humorous, you should be a bit more clear about what you posted. Allow me to rephrase your question in a manner that accurately represents the post in question:

I know we are here to talk about guns and gun related topics but isn't it a bit much to have posts deleted just because someone thinks, despite this being a family board with higher standards than most, it would be fabulous idea to post a picture of buxom bikini clad women with guns that wouldn't be appropriate for this forum regardless of the context and even resulted the staff being notified of the inappropriate nature of the post by other members?

While I wasn't the mod who deleted it, I certainly would have. I'm afraid if your "humor" relies on answering a question about magazines with cheesecake photos, you'll find that your posts will continue to be deleted.

Let me restate that more clearly, just in case you didn't follow me. Your post wasn't deleted for your attempt at humor. It was deleted for posting a picture of scantily clad women with guns. It was reported to the staff as an offensive and was deleted as such, not due to some unwritten prohibition against humor.

Typically, we prefer to handle such incidents in private. If you have a question about why a particular post was deleted, PM the moderators of that section and we will either respond or forward it to the moderator who took action.

[mcdonl]

<sigh>

[LEVRLOVR]

How about a section strictly for scantily clad women with guns?:)
How's that for humor?

[mcdonl]

They let low life jesters like me in. It is people like me who are ruining this place.

[JShirley]

As stated clearly early, it's not humor we object to. It's lowering the level of discourse with offensive posts that are the issue here.

I think this one's done.