Will a snowman stop a JHP?


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Snowdog
February 10, 2010, 11:35 AM
Strictly out of curiosity, will a ball of snow of approximately 16" in diameter expand and stop a JHP from a 9mm, say a 115gr Silvertip JHP?

I know it depends on the bullet weight, construction and velocity, but I've long been curious if a large snowball poses a challenge for an expanding bullet to completely penetrate.

I guess I'll probably end up having to shoot a snowman myself, but if someone already has, care to share the results?

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Nick5182
February 10, 2010, 11:38 AM
I highly doubt it. A 16" block of ice, probably, but not snow. Snow is not dense or hard enough to stop the bullet, and the bullet will be hot coming out of the barrel and will most definitely also melt the hole it travels through.

shadowalker
February 10, 2010, 11:46 AM
I also seriously doubt it.

I agree ice might because it is a hard physical barrier. shooting through snow is more like shooting through a pillow, the space is mostly air.

MikePGS
February 10, 2010, 11:52 AM
Only one way to find out.

Brian Williams
February 10, 2010, 11:55 AM
One of the best ways to get a unexpanded bullet is to shoot along the length of a snow bank. it will not expand. it will also take a bit to find it.

StarDust1
February 10, 2010, 11:57 AM
Strictly out of curiosity, will a ball of snow of approximately 16" in diameter expand and stop a JHP from a 9mm, say a 115gr Silvertip JHP?

I know it depends on the bullet weight, construction and velocity, but I've long been curious if a large snowball poses a challenge for an expanding bullet to completely penetrate.

I guess I'll probably end up having to shoot a snowman myself, but if someone already has, care to share the results?
"Ahh" your first major snowstorm is it? :) Not unless you pack it with concrete before you cover it with snow...

savit260
February 10, 2010, 12:07 PM
You could trhow a sharp stick at 16" diameter of snow ball from 10 feet away and go all the way through.

JellyJar
February 10, 2010, 12:15 PM
Not if he can duck fast enough! :neener:

PT1911
February 10, 2010, 12:15 PM
neither a medium to large block of ice nor a medium sized ball of snow will stop a bullet... the ice will shatter, the snow is not dense enough to do much of anything... disregarding the possibility of a large snow bank.

kanook
February 10, 2010, 12:31 PM
DRAW

halfded
February 10, 2010, 12:34 PM
No matter the outcome I think video, or at least pictures, are in order.

Avizpls
February 10, 2010, 12:38 PM
yeah, I tried this before. It did stop it. Actually, within the first few inches. Snow is amazing!

So after that I started packing my jacket full of snow before I put it on! Now its like a frostbitten bullet-proof jacket.


Im curious of your results, too. Post pictures or video!! haha (and dont take my word for the bullet stopping abilities of snow, lest ye be testing your own capability to stop a bullet.)

devildog32713
February 10, 2010, 12:45 PM
Only one way to find out.

I like this sort of thinking, :D

Just One Shot
February 10, 2010, 12:52 PM
No, it will not.
:uhoh:

essayons21
February 10, 2010, 01:20 PM
One of the best ways to get a unexpanded bullet is to shoot along the length of a snow bank. it will not expand. it will also take a bit to find it.

I've always found a bullet puller easier, plus it has the advantage of working year round :D

Snowdog
February 10, 2010, 01:35 PM
I know for a fact that snow isn't much of an obstacle for non expanding bullets such as lead round nose and FMJs, but I'm uncertain about JHPs.
My mind keeps going to the possibility that the snow could rapidly pack into the hollow cavity of the JHP and, at such velocities, begin the expansion process. If so, I can see the increased surface area exponentially slowing the bullets procession through the snowman.

However, I am more inclined to think a JHP would not expand in such a medium. I suppose a snowman will have to be sacrificed in the name of science.

rswartsell
February 10, 2010, 01:41 PM
It is exactly because of this over-penetration issue that I do not risk my life by using 9mm to confront the violent snowman threat. I recommend mil-surp flamethrowers,...DRT.:D

Joe Demko
February 10, 2010, 01:43 PM
There's more than one kind of snow. Are we talking the powdery kind of snow that skiers like? Are we talking about heavy, wet snow (like we got Friday night) that has also had the opportunity to freeze/firm up over the last couple days? How tightly packed are the snowballs that form the snowman?
Lots of factors here. Snow is an inconsistent medium for bullet testing. OTOH, "Frosty the Ballistic Gelatin Man" doesn't sound nearly as cute.

cjl8651
February 10, 2010, 01:47 PM
Pictures and videos would be nice, when you carry out this experiment.

PikeStaff
February 10, 2010, 01:52 PM
Several years ago, while working on a project just to the south of Trenton, I was compelled to put a halt to 2 crazed snowmen bent on causing major disruption. A double-barreled 12 gauge from 10 feet out - both barrels at once, loaded with one ounce of 7-1/2 shot - cut them cleanly in half. The more burly snowman of the two kept about 2 inches each side of his midsection after impact, but fell within seconds afterward.

Doubtful that even the Arnold Schwarzenegger of Snowmen could stop the 9mm.....so direct testing is in order.:)

WardenWolf
February 10, 2010, 01:58 PM
I've seen people "execute" snowmen with paintballs (very entertaining to watch, by the way). I don't think they'll stop a real bullet.

Quoheleth
February 10, 2010, 01:58 PM
Only one way to find out.

Hey, ya'll: watch this!

The single most dangerous phrase ever spoken by man.

Q

rswartsell
February 10, 2010, 01:59 PM
Pike, glad you were not injured and my hat's off to your courage. I shiver when I think of what the more burly of the crystal psychopaths could have done in that last few seconds.

Flammenwurfer when you just gotta be sure.

rondog
February 10, 2010, 02:01 PM
I watched a friend fire a .44 magnum straight down into a frozen lake once. Made a helluva divot, but the bullet bounced right back out onto the surface. Ice was about 5-6" thick I'd guess.

zoom6zoom
February 10, 2010, 02:03 PM
Are we talking the powdery kind of snow that skiers like?
Well, ya can't make a snowman from that kind.

Joe Demko
February 10, 2010, 02:05 PM
Well, ya can't make a snowman from that kind.
Where there's a whip, there's a way.

Nick5182
February 10, 2010, 02:10 PM
Hey, ya'll: watch this!

I thought this was every hillbilly's last words?

Extremely Pro Gun
February 10, 2010, 02:56 PM
I could throw a baseball through a snowman. :D

NMGonzo
February 10, 2010, 03:21 PM
Only one way to find out.
And we need video.

We are bored.

357mag.
February 10, 2010, 03:38 PM
Might stop a 9mm.NO WAY its going to stop a caliber that a man would carry :neener:

CajunBass
February 10, 2010, 04:56 PM
I don't know about a hollow point, but a flamethrower will get 'em everytime. ;)

Edited to add:

I just remembered this (first panel). Of course I think it's a FSJ (Full Snow Jacket).

http://www.davecarlson.net/funny/images/calvin-hobbes/9.JPG

Cartoon borrowed from:

http://www.davecarlson.net/funny/calvin-hobbes.htm

W.E.G.
February 10, 2010, 05:07 PM
Yeah,... no reason to waste premium ammo

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/trivia/snowman.jpg

Bailey Boat
February 10, 2010, 05:16 PM
Hold my beer and watch THIS!!!!!

oasis618
February 10, 2010, 05:24 PM
DRAW

Does that snowman have cupcake eyes and a bacon mouth?

AK103K
February 10, 2010, 07:23 PM
One of the best ways to get a unexpanded bullet is to shoot along the length of a snow bank. it will not expand. it will also take a bit to find it.
If you wait til spring, they turn up pretty easily. :)

My BIL and I fired off a couple of mags each out of our .45's into a snow bank that we had plowed up along the drive at his dads place. Come spring, his dad found all the bulets in two little piles, right along side the drive. Other than the light rifling marks, the bullets were pristine. They didnt penetrate all that far either, but it was packed, wet snow.

-v-
February 10, 2010, 10:19 PM
Nope. Granted this was with 180 gr 10mm full-power loads...

The head was about 12-16" in diameter. Snow was of the wet n dense kind.

:evil:

zxcvbob
February 10, 2010, 10:34 PM
It might if there's a fire hydrant in the middle, just waiting for some vandal to try to run over it since it's close to the street. (who would build a snowman like that? :D)

kanook
February 11, 2010, 08:34 AM
Does that snowman have cupcake eyes and a bacon mouth? Acorn eyes and a woodchip mouth.

-v-............ that is freeking funny. You can see the snow splattering all around. Now to recover the bullet

dom1104
February 11, 2010, 08:45 AM
Might stop a 9mm.NO WAY its going to stop a caliber that a man would carry

Actually my money would be on the 9mm penetrating further than a .45.

hammerklavier
February 11, 2010, 10:25 AM
Great photos v!

481
February 11, 2010, 12:47 PM
Nice snowman execution, -v-.

I can only hope that an appropriate tribunal was convened prior to the commission of the sentence...

rswartsell
February 11, 2010, 01:16 PM
tribunal? TRIBUNAL? We don't need no stinking tribunals.....you taking the snowman's side 481? I think we got us a soft on snowmen type here boys.

captainmarko
February 11, 2010, 03:23 PM
tribunal? TRIBUNAL? We don't need no stinking tribunals.....you taking the snowman's side 481? I think we got us a soft on snowmen type here boys.
Okay, now THAT'S funny right there........

481
February 11, 2010, 03:48 PM
l tribunal? TRIBUNAL? We don't need no stinking tribunals.....you taking the snowman's side 481? I think we got us a soft on snowmen type here boys.

Hey! Ever heard of due process, bub? :scrutiny:

We let this go and what'll happen next? There'll be riots, mass uprisings, snowballs will fly and snow will fill our streets....oh, wait...that's a blizzard. :evil:

Nevermind. :D

rswartsell
February 11, 2010, 04:47 PM
dupe

revals
February 11, 2010, 09:39 PM
Well, until you build that snowman and give it a try you'll just have to go here and kill a few snowmen to get warmed up. http://armorgames.com/play/5143/snomageddon

Confederate
February 11, 2010, 09:54 PM
The question isn't whether a snowman will stop a JHP, but whether a JHP will stop a snowman.

In most cases it all depends on whether the snowman has been drinking or is on drugs.

I suspect any 9mm bullet would penetrate that much snow provided it wasn't packed into ice. Expansion normally only occurs if there's fibrous material combined with water. Wet phonebooks, gelatin, flesh and so forth cause the bullet to peel back and expand, but I'd think snow would not have the same effect.

Forty-five ammo usually doesn't have great penetration, which is why it's a poor hunting round, but works well on humans (works better if you stand in front of a fan...it can use all the help it can get).

mljdeckard
February 11, 2010, 09:57 PM
I have never seen a JHP expand in snow. I have recovered many that didn't.

Better put it COM, try to get a CNS hit on Frosty.

CornCod
February 11, 2010, 10:53 PM
Man, that snowman must have insulted you big time. Without a doubt, such an action would be illegal in Canada, where national symbols like the snowman have special protections.

CajunBass
February 12, 2010, 06:16 AM
Forty-five ammo usually doesn't have great penetration, which is why it's a poor hunting round, but works well on humans (works better if you stand in front of a fan...it can use all the help it can get).

Now THAT is funny. :D

kanook
February 12, 2010, 10:17 AM
[QUOTE][Forty-five ammo usually doesn't have great penetration, which is why it's a poor hunting round, but works well on humans (works better if you stand in front of a fan...it can use all the help it can get).

Now THAT is funny.
/QUOTE]We can't hi jack this snowman thread, but I agree. If a search on hunting with a 45 is done it will be seen that the 45 works well. and here is a pic of the 45 round recovered from a Florida snowman (actually it was a family of them hiding in my pool.)

Gary A
February 12, 2010, 11:19 AM
How deep is it necessary to penetrate a snowman to reach the vitals?

Bailey Boat
February 12, 2010, 03:30 PM
How deep is it necessary to penetrate a snowman to reach the vitals?

Do snowmen even have vitals????? Or are they like politicans, spineless and gutless?????

harmon rabb
February 12, 2010, 03:37 PM
pics and vids of this experiment are required.

Snowdog
February 12, 2010, 04:56 PM
In most cases it all depends on whether the snowman has been drinking or is on drugs.
Isn't "ice" a drug? I understand snowmen and ice go hand-in-hand.

Expansion normally only occurs if there's fibrous material combined with water.
It's the hydraulic effect that initiates expansion, not fibrous material. Water is typically used by some (water jugs) to test expansion of various JHPs.

In the past, I was known for testing against playdough (search playdough and snowdog either here or TFL and there might be a hundred posts or so). I literally tested hundreds of JHPs against the same 75 pounds of playdough that I kept moist in 5 gallon bucket.
After about 8 years, it began to mold and was tossed.

Perhaps the next snow we get, I'll make some snow blocks that are slightly compressed and see just how many blocks will stop a JHP and to see whether it expands or not. I believe velocity will be key (thus eliminating all by the lightest .45acp JHPs). I have some 115gr 9mm Corbon that I'll use. If that doesn't expand, I don't think much will.

FIVETWOSEVEN
February 12, 2010, 10:31 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsM8Tsbulr8
not quite what you guys want but still, snowman style execution.

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