Browning Hi-Power vs. Cz-75


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sprice
February 10, 2010, 08:32 PM
Wich is ''better", and why (I know using the term better is a no-go but wich one do y'all think I should get)?

What would be better for concealed carry/feels better?

I have a jericho/baby eagle already btw.

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Fastcast
February 10, 2010, 08:45 PM
Both are beautiful, accurate, reliable and durable pistols.....Better is debatable. Pic either and be happy knowing you have chose one of the finest pistols ever made. End of discussion. :)

earlthegoat2
February 10, 2010, 08:49 PM
The CZ is a fine pistol but the Hi Power is just plain sexy. Nice, svelt lines. Awesome grip. Very good reliability in the MKII and MKIII generations.

jdh
February 10, 2010, 08:54 PM
CZ for the simple reason of having the option of cocked and locked or double action for the first shot.

railroader
February 10, 2010, 08:56 PM
I have owned both but I seem to shoot CZs better, Mark

sprice
February 10, 2010, 08:59 PM
Good info, keep it comin' and thanks.

m2steven
February 10, 2010, 09:19 PM
I own the CZ75 and frankly the basic look of the browning is very very similar. However, I don't have the pleasure of owning the Browning. Purely based upon looks, the Browning is truly one of the most beautiful pistols made, period. If the Browning is as reliable as the CZ, you might want to go for it if it's not too much more expensive for your budget. It's about 2-300 dollars more generally if purchased new.

But it really is one of the great looking pistols. FYI, I , with hundreds of other owners can say that their CZ pistols have been perfect; and hundreds of others can say they have been nearly perfect. You can get a new one and send it to this one person (not in top of head at moment) and get a really good trigger job for around 100 bucks. There is a single action mod and mod for both single and double actions of the CZ. So it might be the best buy of the two. It's truly a competition type pistol.

SharpsDressedMan
February 10, 2010, 09:21 PM
The Hi Power is a bit sleeker, and it seems easier for me to hit the safety (mine is MkIII with ambi safety) on the Browning than the CZ when in cocked and locked mode. The CZ is as bit larger, and the reach on DA can be a bit much for small hands. They both are beautifully made and finished, and very sleek in appearance and nice handling. Mine are equally accurate. While the CZ is a classy gun, I find myself carrying the Browning more often. http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/matquig/DSC05540.jpghttp://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/matquig/DSC05265.jpg

Joe Pickett
February 10, 2010, 09:30 PM
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa311/gunslinger902/Phillips-right.jpg

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa311/gunslinger902/Phillips-left.jpg

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa311/gunslinger902/Phillips-rear.jpg

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa311/gunslinger902/Phillips-top.jpg

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa311/gunslinger902/Phillips-bottom.jpg

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa311/gunslinger902/Phillips-muzzle.jpg

JTQ
February 10, 2010, 09:46 PM
One cannot answer this question without sending you the Stephen A. Camp's wonderfully informative site.

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/CZ-75%20or%20BHP.htm

Calhoun
February 10, 2010, 09:59 PM
CZ hands down. If only because it has a functional safety.

SharpsDressedMan
February 10, 2010, 10:04 PM
"CZ hands down. If only because it has a functional safety."
Huh. I thought the Browning had a safety, too............................................

geigersd
February 10, 2010, 10:08 PM
I love my BHP! It's sleek, functional, and reliable. Easy to field strip and clean.

sidheshooter
February 10, 2010, 10:13 PM
Somewhat OT, but that phillips is gorgeous!


(but I'm a bit more a CZ-75 guy).

earlthegoat2
February 10, 2010, 10:18 PM
"CZ hands down. If only because it has a functional safety."
Huh. I thought the Browning had a safety, too............................................

I think this statement is a reflection that the BHP safety is somewhat small on the earlier models and does not have a very positive feeling on and off.

That said however, my HPs safety is of the extended MKII variety and has never came off accidentally and is easier than 1911s or CZs to disengage. It will stay on even when it is carried in the waistband with no holster.

Random Discharge
February 10, 2010, 10:24 PM
The CZ is...well, nice. OK, its double action, well designed, chunky, more complicated, less ergonomic; relatively, hardly a classic. IS the CZ sleek and sexy? I think not. When it comes to the CZ, lets just be friends. There's nothing too wrong with it, but it is no BHP.

earlthegoat2
February 10, 2010, 10:28 PM
CZ for the simple reason of having the option of cocked and locked or double action for the first shot.

I guess I dont see this as an advantage or disadvantage. If you like cocked and locked then why would you ever want DA and vise versa?

Runningman
February 10, 2010, 11:30 PM
For a non polymer fighting 9mm.... get the CZ-85 Combat Duel Tone DA/SA, add a $8.00 16# Wolff recoil spring and your done. You have your DA/SA trigger in addition to the frame mounted safety. So you have options on your carry mode. The CZ-85 Combat is the best of the bunch IMO.

Cheaper than a BHP. CZ-75/85 are generally more accurate than the two BHP I've owned. Don't really care for the magazine disconnect on Browning Hi Powers. Out of the box BHP have way to heavy of a trigger so they need work right off the bat.

Most if not all standard CZ-75 models use a magazine brake, the CZ 85 Combat does not. So the magazine is drop free. The CZ-85 Combat also has adjustable sights, extended mag release, over travel adjustment on the trigger, compared to the CZ-75.

The CZ 85 Combat also does not use a firing pin block so the lack of extra linkage makes for a sightly better trigger out of the box than a standard CZ-75B or CZ-85B.

billybob44
February 10, 2010, 11:40 PM
I have not shot a Browning HP. I do own a CZ PO-1, and LOVE it. Mine was bought NIB before the last National Election, so it was reasonable priced-up about $200 now, from what I paid.:uhoh::D

jdh
February 11, 2010, 12:16 AM
I guess I dont see this as an advantage or disadvantage. If you like cocked and locked then why would you ever want DA and vise versa?

While I prefer C&L, I have worked for agencies that required patrol to carry the duty sidearm with the hammer down. So, with the CZ I can (could have) make the Chief happy while on patrol duties yet still use the same pistol C&L while on "the team" or for competition.

Rittmeister
February 11, 2010, 12:36 AM
I have both, and would be hard-pressed to choose. I don't carry typically, so that's not much of a consideration for me. I find I shoot the CZ a bit more accurately, but the HP is no slouch.

That said, lately I've been thinking of parting with the HP. No real reason, just a bit tired of it and thinking of picking up something in its place (possibly a new FNX).

Gelgoog
February 11, 2010, 12:41 AM
I have both, but I would have to choose the BHP, I find it fits the hand better, has a more natural point, sleeker, easier to rack the slide, better trigger. As far as steel handguns go I have never had a better one then a BHP.

Big Bill
February 11, 2010, 12:58 AM
I own a CZ 75BD and couldn't be happier.

Isher
February 11, 2010, 01:06 AM
Well..........

To quote Bob Dylan

"An' I say, "Aw come on now,
You must know about my debutante."
An' she says, "Your debutante just knows what you need
But I know what you want.""

CZ all the way.

isher

9mmepiphany
February 11, 2010, 01:28 AM
the Browning to look at and for the feel

the CZ if you plan on using it for any serious purpose.

the browning (P-35) is beautiful, but the slide is too light and moves too fast in recoil to hold up to heavy use. the CZ is a product improved P-35 with a better slide/frame interface and thumb safety

Oldnoob
February 11, 2010, 02:27 AM
I have both.

35 years young Browning Hi Power
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f185/johell/My%20gun/BHP.jpg

CZ75B SA
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f185/johell/My%20gun/CZ75BSApointdown.jpg

I got the CZ because I used to thing they were BHP's clone (I know better now). It's an outstanding pistol, but BHP is still my favor 9mm.

earlthegoat2
February 11, 2010, 06:03 AM
the browning (P-35) is beautiful, but the slide is too light and moves too fast in recoil to hold up to heavy use.

I say this with hesitance because I dont want to be pegged as a lunatic BHP fanboy but....

I really need some kind of real world documentation and a pattern of this happening over the course of the MKII and MKIII era. I will bite and say the pre MKII and III guns may have had inferior slides but with the changes from the forged to the superior cast frame and improved metallurgy in the slide, not to mention when the HP is properly sprung, I see no reason why it would not hold up to heavy use. Put a stiffer recoil spring in it for +P loads. You have to do that with a CZ as well. If you are really paranoid use a buffer.

This is not saying that the CZ is really a worse pistol because I really think in the big picture the differences are negligible. Take the one that fits best and run. I would stake my money on a pre-B model with a superior trigger.

Full Metal Jacket
February 11, 2010, 07:38 AM
i voted cz-75.

here's mine. over 13,000 rounds and no probs :D :

http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/champop1911/P1020543.jpg


(it's almost 30 years old)

Pilot
February 11, 2010, 08:02 AM
the browning (P-35) is beautiful, but the slide is too light and moves too fast in recoil to hold up to heavy use. the CZ is a product improved P-35 with a better slide/frame interface and thumb safety


I've owned and shot Hi Powers for about 20 years and have never experienced nor heard this before. The history and usage since 1935 in all theaters of war to this day speak to the durability itself. The MK III Hi Power is certainly strong enough as it was modified to handle the .40 S&W.

I think you are also wrong about the CZ being an improved P-35. Totally different firearms. I love CZ's and have a few and they're great. I carry a PCR almost daily, own a 75B and Kadet Kit. The CZ97B is probably my next firearm purchase.

That being said, I voted Hi Power as its just the best 9MM out there for size, slimness, accuracy, function, etc. FOR ME. Its my most accurate centerfire handgun out of about 30 different pistols.

rellascout
February 11, 2010, 10:07 AM
CZ 75 does not fit my hand.

Full Metal Jacket
February 11, 2010, 10:24 AM
CZ 75 does not fit my hand

:eek:

dom1104
February 11, 2010, 10:41 AM
CZ man here.

But thats an unfair comparison. The BHP is a classic and has a attraction all its own. The CZ is a modern firearm with less..... panache.

http://www.norrahammarspsk.se/Cz_sp01_shadow.jpg

You can DO a lot more with a modern CZ, just because of the fact it is modern. Parts, mods, etc.

Would I love to have a BHP? Yes I would.

9mmepiphany
February 11, 2010, 12:27 PM
i will say that the improvements to the P-35 to handle the .40 cartridge have done wonders to increase durability.

the long military service of the P-35 isn't an indicator of durability. a military issued sidearm is carried much more than it is fired. that is what the P-35 was designed toward.

the P-35 even when modified for use by the SAS and FBI HRT units suffered when subjected to heavy training use. my data comes from IPSC competitors and pistol smiths who tried to keep them running in competition. granted not every one will be shooting them 25-50k rounds in a year...most folks won't even get to that number during their whole ownership of the gun.

the CZ, and it's clones, have held up to this workload...haven taken numerous IPSC/USPSA titles, even loaded up to "Major 9" levels...before the advent of the wide bodied 1911. there's a reason no one uses a P-35 in IPSC competition and it isn't cost...not at that level

the titles taken by the P-35 hav been by South Africa and Rhodesian teams who did not have ready access to other guns...that is where competitors found out what it took to keep them running through a season

earlthegoat2
February 11, 2010, 12:36 PM
^^

I can agree with this. The P35 is a weaker design inherently.

I had beef with the generalization that all HPs were weaker. Naturally it takes a special pistol to survive the brutality of competition work. CZs have shown their durability and more in many competitions worldwide.

MachIVshooter
February 11, 2010, 01:25 PM
I view the CZ as what John Borwning would have developed the hi-power into if he'd lived longer. Hi power is a great gun, but the CZ took everything good from it, and fixed the shortcomings. 2 more rounds, double action, steel frame and better FCG.

earlthegoat2
February 11, 2010, 01:39 PM
Maybe it is personal preference but I am not seeing the CZ as being double action is necessarily and advantage in its favor. Yes it is DA/SA but it has no decocker. Lowering the hammer by pulling the trigger is not what I want to do every time. I guess that is why I would just flick the safety on.

view the CZ as what John Borwning would have developed the hi-power into if he'd lived longer.

Or if he was not bound by the specifications the French military was heaping on the desing JUST like the US Army and the 1911. I tend to think the pistols he designed would have never have been what they are today if no militaries had adopted them though this point is quite moot.

Paints
February 11, 2010, 01:44 PM
To me, the BHP feels wonderful in my hand. That's what attracted me to it. However, the two Brownings that I bought were absolutely horrid guns, the worst I've ever bought. This was a dozen years ago, hopefully they are better now, but I am permanently leary of them. Triggers were so rough that sometimes I thought the safety was engaged! (No it wasn't the magazine safety, I think they "finished" the trigger work with 40 grit sandpaper) The second one (both Practical models), the front sight broke off after about 500 rounds. Geesh :(

Both are long gone. I later bought a FEG clone (at half the price) and it has been a better gun than the Brownings. However, I find the safety small and hard to release for a CCW gun and I've never carried it although I've been tempted.

I've had a CZ75B for 15 years and it's always been a great gun. The grip is a bit thicker than the BHP but mine has always been 100% reliable.

Ken

Paints
February 11, 2010, 01:47 PM
Maybe it is personal preference but I am not seeing the CZ as being double action is necessarily and advantage in its favor. Yes it is DA/SA but it has no decocker. Lowering the hammer by pulling the trigger is not what I want to do every time. I guess that is why I would just flick the safety on.

The HP doesn't have a decocker either.

Stephen A. Camp
February 11, 2010, 01:54 PM
Neither does the 1911 and like it, the Hi Power is single-action. They are unlikely to ever be equipped with such devices due to many carriers preferring Condition One for defensive carry while (probably all but I do not know that for a fact) military folks still using the Hi Power go with Condition Three. A version or two (I've not counted) of the CZ design (other than single-action-only models) do offer the decocking lever since the pistol can be fired DA for the first shot if desired.

earlthegoat2
February 11, 2010, 05:26 PM
I guess my point is why have a pistol that is capable of firing DA with an exposed hammer, yet there is no decocking device. Merely a safety that will only engage if the hammer is cocked (on the models I have handled) and with the only way of lower the hammer being to thumb it down. I dont think it is a design defect.

At any rate make my CZ-75 SAO.

Paints
February 11, 2010, 05:29 PM
I don't see a problem in not having a decocker. If you need to decock it, do it the same way you would a SA gun: point it in a safe direction, hold the hammer carefully, and pull the trigger, letting the hammer down slowly.

OldCavSoldier
February 11, 2010, 05:41 PM
Can't go wrong, either way, IMHO.

Skillet
February 11, 2010, 05:58 PM
A good narrowing down of the question on "Which is better" arguments would at least one requirement-

as is in all tests, whether they be cars or toothpicks, an equal PHYSICAL comparison of BOTH objects is needed before an accurate answer can be established. This means that if you own and/or handled and/or fired weapon #1, that's great, but if you don't own and/or have not handled and/or fired weapon #2, then your attempt to compare them both against each other is at best a highly educated conjecture. for an accurate comparison, you need to eliminate all of the outside variables that effect the final conclusion of the test.

this means that weapon #1 and #2 need to be fired with the same types of ammo, and they need to be fired the same amount of times. and at the start of each test both guns need to be equally cleaned (due to grime build up, a clean gun will preform better than a dirty gun, that's just obvious.).

so your requirements are

1- you have to have owned and/or handled and/or fired both weapons to even begin with an accurate conclusion. otherwise its just conjecture.

2- you have to test them equally, with equal ammo, cleanliness, and factory parts.

I am just attempting to narrow down some results for you so you can get a more accurate answer.

As for me, I own and have handled and have fired a CZ 75B. And I love it.

Upsides-
great ergonomics
great reliablility
great capacity
looks real good :)

downsides-
She's Heavy
She's kinda bulky

9mmepiphany
February 11, 2010, 06:14 PM
as is in all tests, whether they be cars or toothpicks, an equal PHYSICAL comparison of BOTH objects is needed before an accurate answer can be established. This means that if you own and/or handled and/or fired weapon #1, that's great, but if you don't own and/or have not handled and/or fired weapon #2, then your attempt to compare them both against each other is at best a highly educated conjecture. for an accurate comparison, you need to eliminate all of the outside variables that effect the final conclusion of the test.

this means that weapon #1 and #2 need to be fired with the same types of ammo, and they need to be fired the same amount of times. and at the start of each test both guns need to be equally cleaned (due to grime build up, a clean gun will preform better than a dirty gun, that's just obvious.).


i have to agree with this, it would make "Which should i buy" threads much more useful if posters have had experience with all guns considered...rather than devolving into "I chose this, so it must be the better choice"

it's like folks who post on a thread about which is the better high end production 1911 who have only shot/owned a Wilson and proclaim it a better gun than a Baer, Nighthawk or even a Springfield Armory Professional.

GrandmasterB
February 11, 2010, 06:24 PM
I have had both. The BHP is slimmer and more comfortable to conceal. The CZ75has a fairly long DA trigger reach and the grip is larger too, making it a bit harder to get to the mag release without shifting my grip.

I think the CZ75 is a very well made gun, but I sold mine and won't be going back to one. I have realized over the years that I prefer either striker fired or single action when it comes to semi auto pistols. While the CZ can be carried cocked & locked, (which I liked very much), it doesn't have the same feel as a true single action like the Hi Power.

http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/bungib/PublicFolder/Guns/ForSale/CZ75BSS.jpg

http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/bungib/PublicFolder/Guns/bhp-005a.jpg

Stephen A. Camp
February 11, 2010, 06:46 PM
I agree and that's why I almost never get into these threads. Much of which is "best" depends on the individual and is subjective:

If intersted, some observations that may or may not be of use though the articles are a year or more old:

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/CZ-75%20or%20BHP.htm

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Browning%20and%20CZ.htm

Fastcast
February 11, 2010, 07:40 PM
Sure the CZ75 has a decocker. You just have to buy the correct model, if that's what you want....I believe it's called the CZ75 BD.

GZOh
February 11, 2010, 08:46 PM
Stephen brings up a good point... the BHP is SINGLE-ACTION, and that does not appeal to all... the CZ comes in a decocker model (75BD)... and is usually alot less $$ than the BHP.
Have several CZs and my two 75Bs are super, flawless shoots... love 'em!
But I must admit, they don't come 'sexier' than the BHP (see the Grandmasters pic... WOW)
http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq112/geezeepix/CZ75B-1.jpg

Eightball
February 11, 2010, 09:16 PM
BHP is the most well-balanced, naturally-pointing 9mm I've ever held. The CZs are nice.......but just don't seem as nice, to me.

jdh
February 11, 2010, 10:40 PM
Oh, my CZ has never bit me. Can't say the same for the High Power.

RJM
February 11, 2010, 11:45 PM
Getting hammer bite is the one reason I don't get along with Browning Hi Powers. I think they are a great firearm if made well, but the hammer gets me everytime.

I have a Cz 75b and am getting a Cz p-07 when I get the rest of my layaway paid down. I think the guns are very well put together and shoot great. I really like the layout, feel and quality of the Cz75b, its a great shooter.

Al LaVodka
February 11, 2010, 11:50 PM
Don't really care for the magazine disconnect on Browning Hi Powers.
I added the magazine disconnect to my Belgian and Browning sent me the missing part(s) to do it with a bill just in case I wanted to pay for it, which I did. Were very helpful. That was quite a few, um, years ago.

Pilot
February 12, 2010, 11:26 AM
Getting hammer bite is the one reason I don't get along with Browning Hi Powers. I think they are a great firearm if made well, but the hammer gets me everytime.

That is easily remedied by a Commander style hammer or slight filing of the hammer spur as Stephen Camp has done on his.

Loyalist Dave
February 12, 2010, 08:47 PM
I have owned both, and liked both, but (now this was 25 years ago) there were more aftermarket parts for the BHP, so a commander hammer, enlarged safety, larger slide stop, etc etc really made mine fun to shoot. There were larger cap magazines also available for the BHP. I suppose today the CZ is pretty equal with tricked out parts, no? I think I'd still take my old BHP.

LD

BHP FAN
February 12, 2010, 10:00 PM
BHP,no question.

Full Metal Jacket
February 12, 2010, 10:48 PM
:eek:

Mizar
February 13, 2010, 06:48 AM
Just to add something on Hi-Powers - it is relatively simple for one to find an old style firing pin stop with the small radius on the bottom - same results as with the 1911 small radius FPS. Cz's are good pistols, but the internals and full disassembly are far more complicated for my taste.

Boris
http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/9720/95323965sl2.jpg

GeezerwithGuns
February 13, 2010, 11:06 AM
I currently own both: A BHP MKIII and a CZ 75B. In terms of accuracy and reliability, they are equal. Neither have ever misfed or stovepiped and are capable of shooting better than their owner. The differences really come down to fit and features. The CZ, as some posters have observed is slightly bulkier. Both guns, however feel good in my hand. I like the option with the CZ to use double action (hammer down) with the first shot, but at the same time don't feel intimidated by carrying the BHP in condition 1. Some posters have mentioned poor trigger pull in the Browning. Mine has a very nice trigger, but I must mention that the magazine safety has been removed on it. The CZ doesn't have a mag safety, so from that perspective alone I like it better. The CZ's factory grips, in my opinion, are pretty crappy, so I replaced mine with some thin Hogue rosewood checkered grips and it greatly improved the feel.

Overall, the BHP is a beautiful looking, great feeling classic firearm but so is the CZ in its own right. That's why I own both.

The CZ, in my opinion is still a true bargain in the market place. Retail, there is more than a $300 difference between them in price. My advice to anyone "torn" between the two is if you can afford it, buy both.:D

grimjaw
February 13, 2010, 11:17 AM
I'd just like to say that I'd take the loser of this fight anyday.

jm

Hawthorne2k
February 13, 2010, 09:33 PM
I'd just like to say that I'd take the loser of this fight anyday.

jm

Yeah, it's kinda like choosing between Keeley Hazell and Gemma Atkinson: The only correct answer is... BOTH! :)

Oldnoob
February 14, 2010, 02:54 AM
Just to add something on Hi-Powers - it is relatively simple for one to find an old style firing pin stop with the small radius on the bottom - same results as with the 1911 small radius FPS. Cz's are good pistols, but the internals and full disassembly are far more complicated for my taste.

Boris
http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/9720/95323965sl2.jpg

+1. Most of CZ owner never detail strip their pistol or maybe they just don't care to do so. But being able to fully understand my own gun inside and out means something for me. I had detail both my BHP and CZ before. While I wish an extra finger to put my BHP's hammer/sear back into frame, putting CZ's parts back just straight out pain in the a**.

luigi
February 14, 2010, 08:21 PM
I would pick the CZ based on the ability to carry W/ the hammer down alone

ajoker31
February 15, 2010, 01:58 AM
I've owned both (a few times). I prefer the the CZ-75b SA over the standard DA/SA. I like the BHP over the CZ-75....but it's a close call. The CZ lacks the refinement of the BHP. Comparing the two, I find that the CZ-75 has tool marks that run down the inside of the slide and frame, along with trigger creep and occasional stove pipes.

The BHP has a gritty trigger out of the box that requires the mag safety to be polished or removed. I personally haven't used either as my carry, I've made some mods to both and used them as range/target pistols. Both are very accurate, the BHP has the edge in quality, reliability and resale value.....the CZ has a major edge in price. I think they are both great target pistols, but when it comes to self defense I choose Glock.

Best Regards,
Jerry

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