Looking at a new 1911


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Gunslinger686
February 11, 2010, 11:36 PM
Got about 1300 to drop on one, i like the kimber desert warrior,IF you have one or know someone who did your opinion please.

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sigsteve
February 12, 2010, 09:11 AM
I can't tell you about the Kimber Desert Warrior, but I hear that's a great pistol. At that price range though I'd take a look at a Dan Wesson Valor if you can find one. I know they're going on the street right now for a '09 anywhere's from $1300 to $1600. Also look at the PM-7 or a Heritage. All incredible values for a 1911.

Also, if you like the desert tan look the Dan Wesson PM-7 in desert tan. There are several on GA and GB right now for around a grand. Very nice finish and only made one year ('09). There won't be many of these around after a while, but they seem to be plentiful right now. I guess that's because they aren't everyones cup of tea? But I can tell you there are only a few hundred of these in existence!

Rinspeed
February 12, 2010, 09:40 AM
Save another hundred or two and buy a used Les Baer, you won't be disappointed.

EddieNFL
February 12, 2010, 09:45 AM
Another vote for the Baer. After that, my picks would be DW or Colt. In the used market, I would look for a pre-series II Kimber.

sigsteve
February 12, 2010, 09:54 AM
IMHO, a Valor for the price I mentioned would be a better value, buy, & gun. LB's have been rather spotty on STF fit. Some tight as hell and others actually have a rattle! Not many, but they're out there.

Rinspeed
February 12, 2010, 12:03 PM
IMHO, a Valor for the price I mentioned would be a better value, buy, & gun. LB's have been rather spotty on STF fit. Some tight as hell and others actually have a rattle! Not many, but they're out there.




You must be joking, the Valor is a top notch production 1911 but it isn't no Baer. :confused:

9mmepiphany
February 12, 2010, 01:02 PM
the Valor is a top notch production 1911 but it isn't no Baer.

the Baer, along with the Wilson, Brown and Nighthawk, are also high end production 1911s...the most you could call them are semi-customs...and that is what the Valor is. you call order them from Dan Wesson and choose from a list of custom features...you even talk to the guy who will build your Valor for you

Mags
February 12, 2010, 01:11 PM
Get the Kimber Tactical Custom, all the Warrior lineup is, is a glorified Kimber Custom I with a rail. The Warrior and Kimber Custom are fine pistols but in my opinion entry level and for the price of the Warrior you could buy 2 Custom IIs. I think the Warriors should only be about 100 bucks more than a Custom IINS since the only difference is the finish and rail.
My Tactical Custom with my TLE pro
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24/hossdelgado/100_0819.jpg

sigsteve
February 12, 2010, 01:56 PM
You must be joking, the Valor is a top notch production 1911 but it isn't no Baer. :confused:
Not joking.

NMGonzo
February 12, 2010, 04:00 PM
I got a DW and I have way less than that invested.

Olympus
February 12, 2010, 04:03 PM
My vote would be for the Kimber Grand Raptor. I've been wanting one for a very long time.

MICHAEL T
February 12, 2010, 04:16 PM
Please a Baer, Dan Wesson ,Ed brown, all worth the money Kimber isn't close to that kind of money or near the workmanship.
I had a Kimber once I have a Dan Wesson, several Colts and saving for a Brown.
Its a lot of money to spend. See who has the cheaper MIN parts in their guns. I didn't say MIM was bad I said cheaper to make . More profit in the pistol Its not the first 3 above l.

atomd
February 12, 2010, 06:45 PM
No way would I pay anything near that for anything made by Kimber. A used Baer/Brown/ or new DW would be WAY higher on my list than Kimber. No question at all.

Mags
February 12, 2010, 07:58 PM
Talk about Kimber bashing. Have any of you guys even held a Kimber manufactured in the last year? They have changed, stop judging their past. But then again you guys do judge Colt by their great past even though their current guns aren't so great. Maybe you all need to get with the times.

Zerodefect
February 12, 2010, 09:43 PM
Another vote for the Dan Wesson Valor. Darn good gun. Based on the limited sample of Less Baers and Wilsons I've seen, I'd rather have a Valor.

Sapper771
February 12, 2010, 09:44 PM
I can't recommend a Kimber. I will recommend a Springfield TRP in Armory Kote though.

atomd
February 12, 2010, 10:28 PM
Talk about Kimber bashing. Have any of you guys even held a Kimber manufactured in the last year? They have changed, stop judging their past. But then again you guys do judge Colt by their great past even though their current guns aren't so great. Maybe you all need to get with the times.

Nope....I'll bash on Colt a bit too if you'd like. ;) I'm not bashing Kimber because of an extractor problem or one of their other issues from the past. I'm just saying there's absolutely no way they are worth that kind of money when compared to the competition at that price range. I'm not saying they're total junk but they certainly aren't in the same class as the ones I mentioned above. $1300 for a Kimber? Cmon now. Not a chance. I've seen plenty of used Baers and Browns for that and they are in a different league. A DW valor is a big step up from anything Kimber makes and it's about that price new.

Mags
February 12, 2010, 10:44 PM
I agree Kimber is not in the same class as Baers, Browns, Wilsons, and Nighthawks. Valors are nice but I class them with the Springfield TRP and Kimber Tactical Custom.

ttheel
February 12, 2010, 10:50 PM
Gunslinger, If you want a Kimber I would not hesitate. Dont let a few guys here on a message board talk you out of it. They make quality 1911's. Some of the negative you hear on here and other sites is a repercussion of the sheer numbers of 1911's which Kimber produce annually. As of 2007 Kimber was producing over 55000 1911's annually, far more than any of the competition. Let me give you an example. If Kimber produces 55000 1911's and they have a 5% trouble rate then that means that there are going to be 2750 aggravated Kimber customers each year. If say the competition produces 3000 and have a 5% problem rate then there are only 150 disgruntled owners out there. 2750 folks make alot more noise than 150, its just simple math.

I actually dont own a Kimber myself but was in a friends gunshop a while back and just asked him about Kimber out of sheer curiosity just to see what he thought. With all of the negative I had heard on here I was just wanting to talk to someone I trust that had tons of experience with them. He sells virtually every major manufacturer on the market and he looked at me and said as far as he was concerned that Kimber was the best of the best. I said do you have any complaints from aggravated Kimber customers. he simply said "Never." Most of his business comes from return customers and let me assure you an angry customer is not a return customer.

Gunslinger686
February 12, 2010, 10:50 PM
Anyone ever herd of doublestar ((((( i have a new thread for this))))))))))))

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_753/products_id/411535164

atomd
February 13, 2010, 08:14 AM
Valors are nice but I class them with the Springfield TRP and Kimber Tactical Custom.

Nahhh. I'd say they are a step up from the TRP and Kimbers. They don't put the MIM parts in them and they generally have a tiny bit better fit/finish. They are all pretty darn good at that level though I guess.

Techsan
February 13, 2010, 08:44 PM
I own a DW CBOB and Valor. They are both excellent production 1911s. Good luck with your search.

HisSoldier
February 14, 2010, 05:43 PM
Have any of you guys even held a Kimber manufactured in the last year? They have changed, stop judging their past.

Did they stop using MIM?

Valors are nice but I class them with the Springfield TRP and Kimber Tactical Custom.
:rolleyes:

conhntr
February 14, 2010, 06:20 PM
ttheel
As of 2007 Kimber was producing over 55000 1911's annually, far more than any of the competition. Let me give you an example. If Kimber produces 55000 1911's and they have a 5% trouble rate then that means that there are going to be 2750 aggravated Kimber customers each year. its just simple math.

ok ttheel apply that "simple math" to glock (or XD) and explain why they have x10 more guns on the street than kimber and almost no complaints?

9mmepiphany
February 14, 2010, 08:17 PM
ok ttheel apply that "simple math" to glock (or XD) and explain why they have x10 more guns on the street than kimber and almost no complaints?

you're kidding, right

that's usually the excuse Glock folks use for their reported problems

Magnumite
February 14, 2010, 09:44 PM
Let's see...if I call a custom smith and order a highly fitted, tight 1911 with a beavertail, BoMars, good action work, highly accurized and with a hi tech finish, is it custom. If I buy the same thing in a standardized format, then its a production gun?

The semi custom and production moniker on the Wilson, Brown and Baer guns is really a slam on those guns. I recall that being started on another website by...I'll say an envious customsmith who didn't have the clout of those brands. And still doesn't.

Each of those guns are hand fitted, just like you ordered it from any custom 1911 smith. They are custom all the way. Built the same way.

A SA Trophy Match costs about $1400 new, retail. Good gun, alot of gun, but not in the same class as a Baer PII for a couple hundred more.
Look at it this way...buy a new Kimber or Trophy Match for $1300 and then sell it. $1000 maybe. Buy a Baer for $1525 and you can easily sell it for $1200. They are that much better.

atlanticfire
February 15, 2010, 12:18 AM
Some of the guys on the pistol team for our police department had purchased Baers, after 3 times back to them for several defects they went to Wilsons. Just my bit..... I cannot afford either. I'll stick to my STI's and S&W PC....

9mmepiphany
February 15, 2010, 03:19 AM
The semi custom and production moniker on the Wilson, Brown and Baer guns is really a slam on those guns. I recall that being started on another website by...I'll say an envious customsmith who didn't have the clout of those brands. And still doesn't.

Each of those guns are hand fitted, just like you ordered it from any custom 1911 smith. They are custom all the way. Built the same way.

if you believe that a 1911 that you can order from the shop of Ned Christiansen, Stan Chen or anyone else at LTW would be the same as one from Wilson, Brown or Baer, you are mistaken.

by you logic, a 1911 hand built by Bubba at the local shop would be the same as one from Baer

mbopp
February 15, 2010, 02:50 PM
I too have been bitten by the .45 1911 bug. The local dealer has a NIB Kimber Target II for $900 or a (slightly) used Clark / Colt Series 70 stainless pin gun for $700. And that was just the first place I looked.
No, I'm not going to ask which is better. I'm just saying for the money either will do me just fine and I'm not dropping $1500+ on it.

Patrick R
February 15, 2010, 06:48 PM
For the money you want to spend a Valor would be a good choice if you can find one.

A gun you can find is the Springfield TRP. Well made, good looking & nice shooting gun.

I have the SS finish.

kentucky_smith
February 15, 2010, 06:57 PM
Dan Wesson Valor, Baer, Ed Brown or a Springer TRP.

I wish I could recommend a Colt, but not since the last 2009 production Gold Cup I owned, or the XSE's I've inspected.

I'm done with Kimber.

9mmepiphany
February 15, 2010, 07:02 PM
Dan Wesson Valor, Baer, Ed Brown or a Springer TRP.

i'll just point out that the TRP, while a very nice gun, and one i recommend often. isn't out of the Custom Shop like the others are...a more valid comparison might be the Springfield Professional, but then that's more money too

Full Metal Jacket
February 15, 2010, 07:24 PM
the valor isn't out of a "custom shop" either.

230therapy
February 15, 2010, 08:42 PM
High end is probably the best way to go. Make sure the shop has a very good warranty and has a good reputation for customer service.

Full Metal Jacket
February 15, 2010, 08:54 PM
you can get a les baer TRS cheaper than a springer PRO

9mmepiphany
February 15, 2010, 10:04 PM
the valor isn't out of a "custom shop" either.

that's odd.

i had two friends order Valors last year and they were each contacted by the smith who was about to build their gun about anything they wanted added or deleted during the build.

one friend happened to mention that he really liked the bob-tail of the CBOB, but understood as the Valor was a full-sized gun rather than the Commander length. the gunsmith said "This is a Valor, we can do whatever you want before we apply the finish"...he was offered the option of a bob-tail or just a rounded butt on the frame.

CZ might not call it a custom shop, but what else would you call it

Full Metal Jacket
February 15, 2010, 10:29 PM
they can be ordered out of the DW custom shop, like any springer 1911....

LaBulldog
February 15, 2010, 11:44 PM
There are a couple for sale on SIGforum.

http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/350601935/m/265107592?r=265107592#265107592
http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/350601935/m/673103592?r=673103592#673103592

9mmepiphany
February 16, 2010, 02:36 AM
they can be ordered out of the DW custom shop, like any springer 1911....
does that differ from what i posted?

Krusty
February 16, 2010, 05:34 AM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=503623

SSN Vet
February 16, 2010, 01:42 PM
....they take their pistols very seriously :D

If I had the $$ I'd deal with Bob at Fusion...

When it comes to DW 1911s, he essentially IS Dan Wesson... he's the guy that resurected the company and made it what it is today. CZ bought it (and is screwing it all up), but Bob made it.

Since I don't have the money, I have to content myself with blowing the center out of targets with a series 80 Colt, that has a very nice trigger and has flawlessly handled every HP, RN and SWC that I've fed it.

EddieNFL
February 16, 2010, 03:56 PM
Have any of you guys even held a Kimber manufactured in the last year?

Held, disassembled, reassembled and fired.

If it has to be a Kimber, look for a pre series II.

Hk Dan
February 16, 2010, 04:04 PM
Your exact pistol is listed for sale in the classifieds section of this website. Kimber Desert Warrior, and you can afford to buy some ammo within your current budget at the price he has listed. :)

The Wiry Irishman
February 16, 2010, 04:08 PM
I'm a big Kimber fan, but for a full-size gun at that price, I'd be looking at STI and DW.

Balrog
February 16, 2010, 05:02 PM
I did a poll a week or two ago about whether Kimber owners would consider buying another.

Only a little over 50 percent said they would buy another Kimber... make what you want out of that statistic, but I think Kimber has some problems if only about 50 percent of their former customers would buy their product again.

Here is a link:

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=503570

Full Metal Jacket
February 16, 2010, 05:33 PM
does that differ from what i posted?

the valor is a production gun, not a custom one. however, it can be ordered with custom add ons.

ttheel
February 16, 2010, 06:42 PM
I did a poll a week or two ago about whether Kimber owners would consider buying another.

Only a little over 50 percent said they would buy another Kimber... make what you want out of that statistic, but I think Kimber has some problems if only about 50 percent of their former customers would buy their product again.

Here is a link:

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=503570

I dont think I would call a poll on an online message board where you dont know if the people responding have actully ever owned one a very scientific poll.

EddieNFL
February 16, 2010, 06:57 PM
I dont think I would call a poll on an online message board where you dont know if the people responding have actully ever owned one a very scientific poll.
You mean the kind where they knock on your door or call and ask carefully constructed questions in order to get the "right" response? To participate you have to promise to be honest, cross your heart, hope to die and all that stuff.

Balrog
February 16, 2010, 08:08 PM
I dont think I would call a poll on an online message board where you dont know if the people responding have actully ever owned one a very scientific poll.

Nope, its not scientific and I never said it was. Take it for what it is worth.

I posted a similar poll about Glocks. About 77% of respondents said they would buy another Glock. Only about 55% of Kimber owners would buy another Kimber. I do not claim the poll to be scientific, but it is interesting why there would be a 22% difference. How would you explain it?

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