[Golden_006]

Good alternative to safes you think or a total waste. Although it depends on the situation . . . it's probably good for an apartment since they would deter most Partment thieves who grab whatever is out and runs away quick. I like how you quickly unlock it with a key and access your guns if need be to

[The Lone Haranguer]

Better than nothing, but they can still be pried open with a couple of large screwdrivers. A real safe would require some pretty serious cutting tools. They are much lighter and easier to move than a safe, if you move more than, say, every couple of years.

[Maverick223]

I agree with the above; they are marginally better than hiding them under the bed. I would invest in at least a mediocre "safe" from Dicks or WW before resorting to the gun cabinet.

:)

[wishin]

Gun cabinets are best for keeping children away from your guns. Not much good otherwise. Most have thin glass doors and a hammer will easily defeat the locks.

[Hunt480]

absolute waste,a theif will stiil get your guns.Get a heavy safe at very least 3 or 4 hundred lb's

[The Lone Haranguer]

Most have thin glass doors and a hammer will easily defeat the locks.

I am under the impression the OP refers to metal cabinets, e.g., Stack-On.

[The Lone Haranguer]

Even a "real" safe will not last long against this ...

http://www.ferret.com.au/odin/images/207903/Petrol-Concrete-Saws-available-from-Sydney-Tools.jpg

or this ...

http://www.oxypetrol.com/email/s_torch2.jpg

or (with less expensive safes) even this ...

http://www.idms.es/images/fire%20axe.jpg

But these are generally reserved for after the safe has been removed from the home, as there would be far too much noise. The point is to make it as difficult as possible.

[FROGO207]

I use the Stackon type of gun security cabinet for securing my AMMO.:D Really heavy to lug one of these out when full of lead.:neener: I bolt several together as well as to the floor/wall. Then fill with full ammo boxes.:cool:

[Maj Dad]

Every safe/locking device/defense in depth with artillery support is rated in time until penetration. There is nothing made by man that cannot be overcome by man - with proper tools and time. A locking cabinet lag-screwed to studs in a closet will easily defeat a snatch-and-run or tool-less thief. A high-quality safe with a Group 2 locking system will easily fall to a sophisticated operator with a plasma torch and time. Tailor your situational response to the available and resonable options - think it through, and do what you can. After that, post armed guards, preferably family members, as guards can be bought - it goes on & on... :cool:

[theotherwaldo]

The way I look at it, the difference between a normal safe and a locking cabinet is five minutes. I can open a safe in twenty minutes, an RSC in fifteen. I've done so with examples bought at storage auctions and scrapyards.

-And, if they're not bolted down, I could load either into a U-Haul in about the same amount of time given above, to be opened at my leisure while causing less damage to the contents.

[wishin]

Locking Gun Cabinets Good alternative to safes you think or a total waste. Although it depends on the situation . . . it's probably good for an apartment since they would deter most Partment thieves who grab whatever is out and runs away quick. I like how you quickly unlock it with a key and access your guns if need be to
Posted by The Lone Haranguer: I am under the impression the OP refers to metal cabinets, e.g., Stack-On.

Thanks for the clarification. How did you conclude that?

[mcdonl]

Me, and just about everyone I have ever met have a gun cabilet with a glass front with a picture of a deer on it and a drawer below it. It depends on where you live, and the general security of your home and suroundings in my opinion.

To say that anything short of a safe is useless is narrow minded IMO. Like I said, there are thousands of dollars of guns that have been around for hundreds of years collectivly in gun cabinets where I live and it has never been a problem.

[The Sarge]

I have 2 Stack On cabinets secured to studs in the wall in a closet (locked) in the garage.
I sealed them (from the inside) with duct tape along all the edges and pre drilled holes....and insulated around the door with window seal...that stuff with one sticky side from Home Depot....I also put a cheap little humidity gauge in them....threw a can of safe dry in them....they stay around 30-40% humidity and you would have to exert plenty of effort to get in them......Can a guy get in them...sure....but a casual thief would not even bother....I got what I wanted for $200 bucks each.....they are not designed to replace a $2000 800lb safe but they do insulate rather easily and are reasonably secure when attached to the wall with lag bolts.

[Zach S]

Not a good alternative to a safe, but not a total waste since they're better than nothing.

One post mentioned it is good for keeping kids out, and not much more. I have to agree. I dont see someone getting into it easily with a few screwdrivers unless they use premium tools (Snap-On, Matco), however it would be pretty easy with a pry-bar.

IMO they are one level above locking file cabinets.

Around tax/bonus time I hope to replace it with a small safe or much better RSC.

[Maverick223]

IMO they are one level above locking file cabinets.I don't know about that, the steel is about the same thickness and the door larger. I would say it is a small step below the file cabinet...but still better than nothing.

:)

[Golden_006]

I am in fact talking about stack on

I can't justify an expensive safe since all ihave is a 300 dollar sks and maybe will get some kind ak derivative in the future and maybe a couple of handguns and a shotty but not any time soon. Even then a 10 gunner from Dicks seems good enough. I live in an apt and like I said most burglaries are the grab and go variety

[Hunt480]

If you can't buy a safe,than consider building a false wall in the end of one of your closets to hide your guns. Its the next best thing to a safe is a well disguised hiding place.Takes minimal materials and matching paint for good camo. I did this in my first home and it works really well.

[SOUTHPAW]

Every safe/locking device/defense in depth with artillery support is rated in time until penetration. There is nothing made by man that cannot be overcome by man - with proper tools and time. A locking cabinet lag-screwed to studs in a closet will easily defeat a snatch-and-run or tool-less thief. A high-quality safe with a Group 2 locking system will easily fall to a sophisticated operator with a plasma torch and time. Tailor your situational response to the available and resonable options - think it through, and do what you can. After that, post armed guards, preferably family members, as guards can be bought - it goes on & on... :cool:
I agree. Along with getting a decent safe the best recipe for success is lag-bolting it to the floor and having a good (audible) home alarm system. Once the perp hears the alarm go off, he's not going to stick around with his tools/torch to even attempt cracking the safe. :)

I suppose that combo can be substituted with a cabinet, although it can be broken into with far less time. I'm getting the $450 19-gun safe from Stack-On at Dick's next week and doing just that... It's a real safe, and although it only weighs 250lbs, lag-bolts make it immovable.

[Ohio Gun Guy]

I have a stack on gun cabinet that i am building a wood cabinet around. I plan to secure it to the studs (Maybe even floor) and then the combination of things should keep them safe. I wont look like a gun cabinet and will be stronger than either just a wood cabinet or a metal cabinet.

[Maverick223]

I'm getting the $450 19-gun safe from Stack-On at Dick's next week and doing just that... It's a real safe...Actually it isn't, but most "gun safes" aren't, a real safe must withstand a minimum of 15min. of tampering with heavy tools (including power tools but not a cutting lance), and must have a minimum of 0.25in. steel thickness on all sides. This is for the lowest Underwriters Laboratories certification as a "safe". This is a very expensive and extremely heavy option of something as large as a gun safe. Furthermore, most folks don't really need a true safe. I ended up choosing a imported (but quality) RSC with heavy construction and a light fire rating. The walls on my RSC are 10Ga. with a 0.25in. plate door, 10x1.5" locking bolts (three are immobile, for hinge reinforcement), external hinges, and a electronic entry keypad.

:)

[thorazine]

Since you are renting you could always install a wirleless alarm system

Some can be picked up for around one hundred and are actually very decent.

[Zach S]

I don't know about that, the steel is about the same thickness and the door larger. I would say it is a small step below the file cabinet...but still better than nothing.Not really...

My stack-on is made out of 16 gauge (.060" thick) sheetmetal, file cabinets are typically 20 or 22 (.036 and .030, respectively). I can usually open a locked filing cabinet with brute strength and four letter words.

[Maverick223]

Not really...Well the door is bigger. :neener: You might be right, I don't have a cabinet to go off of, just going off om memory. Also my file cabinet (junk storage device in my shop) is quite old (60's?), so that may account for the additional thickness...or I could just be mistaken. Point is, it isn't a great deal better, but that should still be enough to deter a typical "smash and grab".

:)

[The Sarge]

Pry open a Stack-On with a screw driver? I dont think so friend. It has 3 significant locking points...top/bottom and side.....dont make these out to be a flimsy paper thin file cabinet...they are not a 800lb safe....but if a guy wanted in one of those he could get in.....but dont misrepresent the Stack-On....

[Maverick223]

Pry open a Stack-On with a screw driver? I dont think so friend.You bring the Stack-On with it's fancy 3 significant locking points, and i'll bring my trusty screwdriver...we'll see. ;)

[a1abdj]

There are Stack On safes that I can open with a coat hanger due to bad design.

A safe (or cabinet) is only as strong as it's weakest link. Of course if you're just looking to keep out children or casual smash and grab theives, just about anything that locks will be useful.

[Heavenlyfire]

I have to agree with my grandpa on this one. A lock is only good to keep an honest man honest. If a crook really wants it he will get it. I do keep mine under lock and key so no one toys with them.

[thebigc]

we have some kind of cheap i think 10ga sentury safe/locker thing that we got from dicks for 350 on sale years ago its pretty soild weighs at least 150lb with nothing in it and completely full like it is probably close to 200 the way its bolted down where it is there is no room to work with hand tools its bolted in good and if anyone tried to pull it down or monkey with it there is a soild chance they would end up with 200lbs of safe ontop of themselves it was so hard to get into position because there is only room for 1 person to lift and it has to handles or anything

[tominct]

When I had my first apartment, I bought one of the Greenlee gang boxes from Home Depot to keep the guns in. Ammo at the bottom, guns in soft cases, stacked like cordwood to the top. Not convenient for quick access, but it worked.
The steel's fairly heavy, and the locks are arranged so that it would be awkward to drill out the cylinders.
I kept it in the dining room, draped it with a table cloth, and set a lamp and some candlesticks on it.
My GF at the time was astonished and disturbed that she'd eaten many, many meals not 3 feet from "all those guns".
She wasn't my GF much longer, lol.

[Maverick223]

When I had my first apartment, I bought one of the Greenlee gang boxes from Home Depot to keep the guns in.I would surmise that it would be just as effective as a cheap "safe" from Dicks...perhaps a bit better. The only problems that I see with one is they cost about as much, are big, and like you mentioned hard to get into quick.

:)

[TNboy]

If you can't buy a safe,than consider building a false wall in the end of one of your closets to hide your guns. Its the next best thing to a safe is a well disguised hiding place.Takes minimal materials and matching paint for good camo. I did this in my first home and it works really well.

I like this concept but I don't fully understand how it works. How do you access the area where you keep the guns?

[joeyl]

For a "stack-on" type cabinet to secure it a little better, put it in a corner with at least 6 lag bolts on each side and floor with big fender washers under them. In addition to the cheesy lock that comes on these get 2 hardened steel hasps and 2 sizable padlocks and mount them with bolts and washers. It still isn't a true safe, but hopefully provides enough deterence to make it more trouble than it's worth for the average thief, a pro will get your stuff anyway.

[SOUTHPAW]

Actually it isn't, but most "gun safes" aren't, a real safe must withstand a minimum of 15min. of tampering with heavy tools (including power tools but not a cutting lance), and must have a minimum of 0.25in. steel thickness on all sides. This is for the lowest Underwriters Laboratories certification as a "safe". This is a very expensive and extremely heavy option of something as large as a gun safe. Furthermore, most folks don't really need a true safe. I ended up choosing a imported (but quality) RSC with heavy construction and a light fire rating. The walls on my RSC are 10Ga. with a 0.25in. plate door, 10x1.5" locking bolts (three are immobile, for hinge reinforcement), external hinges, and a electronic entry keypad.

:)
Thanks for the tech tidbit. But I think you know what I meant. ;) It's considered a "safe" and not a "cabinet", ie. fireproof, combo lock, several layers instead of cabinet sheet metal, hardened steel plates, live action locking bolts and 3 steel dead bolts to provide 6 locking points... etc. And if we are being technical for the sake of it, I guess even a "real 15-min safe" still isn't worth the thousands of dollars more if it buys you just 10 or so more minutes, right?

Like I said, whatever you get, bolt it down and get a home alarm. Simple as that.


I like this concept but I don't fully understand how it works. How do you access the area where you keep the guns?

False panel that looks like the wall, that you can pull out. Probably better than any "safe" because if the thief can't find your stuff, he cant steal it. Only down-side is it won't protect from fire... So fire-resistant safe behind false wall = best protection :)

[Maverick223]

And if we are being technical for the sake of it, I guess even a "real 15-min safe" still isn't worth the thousands of dollars more if it buys you just 10 or so more minutes, right?That holds true for me; I went with something in between. It all depends upon what your goals and expectations are, and the value of the items inside. For someone with hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of guns (or other items), you might really need that big, nice Graffunder or Brown safe. For the OP, I would go with a setup much like yours, but perhaps a little cheaper/smaller. One thing to remember is a safe NEVER holds as many long guns as it claims...EVER, so if you plan to have 5 in it, get a safe that holds at least 8-10.

:)

[Ohio Gun Guy]

Look.....Anything is just a mater of time for the right theif/s. I'm in construciton and have had several job sites buglarized. They managed to cut into shipping containers (Steel ground mount trailers), pry or cut into very well made gang boxes, etc, etc.

The safe is only as good as the amount of time and the tools available. If you live where the biggest worry is the smash and grab, where they are in and out in minutes, then any nearly any cabinet or safe will work.

If they will have 30 minutes + I'll bet there isnt one made (That you can afford) that will hold up to it. (If that's what they are there for).

[SOUTHPAW]

Look.....Anything is just a mater of time for the right theif/s. I'm in construciton and have had several job sites buglarized. They managed to cut into shipping containers (Steel ground mount trailers), pry or cut into very well made gang boxes, etc, etc.

The safe is only as good as the amount of time and the tools available. If you live where the biggest worry is the smash and grab, where they are in and out in minutes, then any nearly any cabinet or safe will work.

If they will have 30 minutes + I'll bet there isnt one made (That you can afford) that will hold up to it. (If that's what they are there for).


Exactly.

Time is the major factor. Which is why unless the thief is a pro who knows how to disable your home alarm system, he's just not going to have enough of it to take off with your stuff. *My home alarm alerts local authorities almost immediately and the auditory alarm can be heard for about a quarter mile (it's about 3x louder than my smoke detector)...any idiot who decides to stick around and try to crack a safe while that thing is blairing shouldn't be surprised by the cop car pulling up a few minutes later. *;)

[a1abdj]

And if we are being technical for the sake of it, I guess even a "real 15-min safe" still isn't worth the thousands of dollars more if it buys you just 10 or so more minutes, right?


Well to get technial, there is a huge difference in the way the safes are tested. Your RSC is tested against a small hammer, a large screwdriver, and a drill with a 1/4" bit for a period of 5 minutes. A burglary rated safe is tested against all common hand tools (large sledgehammers, large prybars, wedges, etc.), all common power tools (saws, grinders, drills, etc.) and pressure applying devices (porta powers, etc.). Not to mention the person attacking the safe is a professional with advanced knowlege of the safe's construction.

If you were to attack a 15 minute rated safe using the same tools they test gun safes with, you would probably keep the bad guy out for a week or two.

The safe is only as good as the amount of time and the tools available. If you live where the biggest worry is the smash and grab, where they are in and out in minutes, then any nearly any cabinet or safe will work.


This is true.

If they will have 30 minutes + I'll bet there isnt one made (That you can afford) that will hold up to it. (If that's what they are there for).

You can buy a small TL-30 starting in the $1,000 range brand new.

any idiot who decides to stick around and try to crack a safe while that thing is blairing shouldn't be surprised by the cop car pulling up a few minutes later.

We just had a local woman offer a $10,000 reward for information leading to the arrest of the person(s) who walked out of her house with a Sentry safe full of goodies.

Perfect example of wrong safe for the wrong job, considering how the bad guy was gone before the police responded to her alarm.

[Fleetwood_Captain]

Well building a false wall is definitely a great way to go, especially with a small collection. Crooks can't steal what they can't find. Thumbs up to the end-table gangbox. Just remember to bolt it to the wall as those things usually have wheels.

One thing I'm surprised I haven't seen mentioned here is the "decoy" safe. Theives usually just want to get in and out. And sometimes their willing to steal pretty stupid stuff. My Grandfather caught a guy trying to steal his garden hose in broad daylight once. A lot of people recommend having decoy items to get stolen instead of something valuable. Like if you have some emergency cash in the house, don't keep it all in the same spot. I've heard other ideas like a cheap safe filled with lead weights, or a gas can filled with water on the front porch.

[buckeye8]

I spent quite a bit of time reading up on safes, including reading through all of a1abdj's and CBF900's posts here at THR. I came to the conclusion that until I buy a home and am able to invest seriously into this sort of thing, the best option for me was a Stack-On ($400 at Dick's) and a solid fire/burglary policy from Allstate. I have a "safe" that I can stand to look at for a couple of years, and my guns are insured against fire and burglary for their full replacement cost. If you already have renter's insurance, you should be able to add the firearms coverage for a very reasonable rate. I think I paid $115 for $8000 worth of coverage.

I think a lot of people who invest in $900 Liberty brand stuff would sleep better with $300-500 Stack-Ons, a dog or alarm, and a decent insurance policy. I do.

[Guvnor]

I bought one of the stack on cabinets. They are cheap, and light enough to move around and setup by yourself. If you dont have the cash to spend, or the room to spare for a safe, its not such a bad option.

Somebody with a crowbar and enough determination could probably bust it open, but its enough to protect against the average two-bit thief looking for a quick score.

[Maverick223]

You can buy a small TL-30 starting in the $1,000 range brand new.For a gun safe? If so count me in.

:)

[chevyforlife21]

if you only have a sks, a 150 dollar safe is more then enough

[Maverick223]

if you only have a sks, a 150 dollar safe is more then enoughI disagree unless you only plan to have a SKS. If you plan to expand the collection you may want something better. IMO it is best to think ahead.

:)

[SOUTHPAW]

We just had a local woman offer a $10,000 reward for information leading to the arrest of the person(s) who walked out of her house with a Sentry safe full of goodies.

Perfect example of wrong safe for the wrong job, considering how the bad guy was gone before the police responded to her alarm.

Exactly. But I'd call it wrong setup more so than wrong safe. You said they walked out with it right? I bet it wasn't lag-bolted to the floor... ;)

[Nate1778]

There good for homes with kids and decent security systems in place. Kids can't get in easily and a rushed thief may give up before trying. Like others have said though if someone has all the time in the world, there isn't much you can own that can't get got.............I do agree they need to be attached to something.

[SOUTHPAW]

Yes, the whole point is to make it undetecable or too difficult to attempt. Both of these options are much more affordable and realistic For most peoples applications than spending tens of thousands on super-safes.

So I say again, bolt it down from the inside, hide it behind a false wall, and set that home alarm. :)

[a1abdj]

For a gun safe? If so count me in.

It would hold small guns.

You could buy a large TL-30 starting in the $5,000 range. There are many brand name gun safes selling at and above that price point that are still not rated, and made out of thin material.

if you only have a sks, a 150 dollar safe is more then enough

It is. However, you would be surprised at how many people are keeping $40,000 worth of guns in a $600 safe (which is not anywhere near enough).

Exactly. But I'd call it wrong setup more so than wrong safe. You said they walked out with it right? I bet it wasn't lag-bolted to the floor...


This was a Sentry document safe, which can be opened with a single hammer blow and pried open in seconds. Even if bolted it was the wrong safe for the job.

We installed about 400 safes into homes last year. The computer is showing me that we bolted 12 of them. So even though we tell everybody to bolt their safes, a very small percentage is actually doing it.

[MetalHead]

One thing that really bugs me is the locking steel cabinets are sold with something that readlly brings to mind that it's got guns inside.

Good grief, even dope fiends who can't read can figure that out!
Much better to make it look like it has nothing inside that can be turned into cash easily.

[SOUTHPAW]

This was a Sentry document safe, which can be opened with a single hammer blow and pried open in seconds. Even if bolted it was the wrong safe for the job.

We installed about 400 safes into homes last year. The computer is showing me that we bolted 12 of them. So even though we tell everybody to bolt their safes, a very small percentage is actually doing it.

Well you neglected to mention that it was a document safe. Easy enough for the perps to carry the little guy off and open it at their leisure. If it had been a full height, long-gun safe if you will, using the Stack-On 19 gun for example, bolted down, then they surely would not have so many options.... As far as the percentage of bolt-down installs that occur, I would just tell people flat out, "as easy as we got it in, someone can take it out."

I'm willing to bet the majority that don't bolt them are afraid to wreck their floors. I have beautiful hardwood floors where my safe will be bolted. Simple wood putty filling in the holes that you will barely see if the safe is ever moved are far less an eyesore than coming home to find the thing missing...

[Maverick223]

It would hold small guns.

You could buy a large TL-30 starting in the $5,000 range.Yeah, figured it was too good to be true...I am more of a big gun guy, I own a few pistols, but I am a rifle guy so that is where the money is tied up. Fortunately my safe seems to be adequate (save for space...I will need a new one before long), and I have other security measures that will help (dog and central alarm system). I am pretty confident that my carriage bolted safe (with nuts that cannot be loosened from the crawl-space) with 10ga. body, 0.25in. plate door, and ten 1.5in. locking bolts will hold up pretty well for enough time, even with an investment that technically exceeds the safe's specifications. It is the same as the heavy versions of the Zykan Eagle series for all who are interested (figured i'd throw a plug in for Frank who was very helpful and informative when I was choosing a new safe for myself). ;)

[earlthegoat2]

The cabinets, if put in a hidden location like a closet, can be surprisingly secure. Nothing compared to a good safe though. If you put it in a cubby hole location many prying attempts can be thwarted in the short term.

They are great means for preventing theft in quick in and out burglary attempts.