[eldon519]

I tried searching a couple different ways, but the search function kept telling me the term were either too short or too common.

I'm very experienced with guns, but don't know much about the finer points of shotguns. Can someone give me a quick rundown of pros/cons for side-by-side shotguns and over-under shotguns. I've got a hankering to get one of the CZ SxS shotties because it reminds me of the shotguns my granddaddy used to hunt with, but I'm not sure if they are at some sort of disadvantage. They seem significantly less popular in the US and in competition, though I get the impression they still enjoy popularity in Europe.

Can someone pass some knowledge my way?

[oneounceload]

Both O/U and SxS have many levels of price points and qualities. Depending on your intended usage, and the volume involved, some may be a better choice than others.

A SxS really has to fit well for most folks to be very successful with it. Fit is more than LOP, it also involves cast on or off, drop at heel, drop at comb, toe in or out, pitch, etc. Some of the less expensive guns try to go with a neutral stock which favors neither RH or LH, and in doing so, make a gun that is harder to shoot well. SxS also tend to shoot flat, so you do not see them in target competition except for those set up specifically for them.

O/U's are the main type used in target competition with semi-autos coming a somewhat distant second. The ability to utilize two different constrictions, especially in sporting clays, makes them a favorite. Add in the somewhat forward weight balance and they tend to swing smoother for most folks.

In the hunting fields, it really depends on your quarry. Tight quarters after grouse, woodcock and the like, require a fast moving gun, so something light with barrels around 25" work well. A light and balanced SxS can be a joy to not only carry but shoot in those circumstances. Long overhead pass shooting at ducks or geese would necessitate the use of longer barrels and a heavier gun. While the olden days saw the use of SxS for that, today you mainly see semi's, pumps and O/Us.

All that said, IF this was to be primarily a clay target gun, I would opt for a heavier O/U where volumes are high and distance traveled is short.

If I was trudging hither and yon after wily, fast-moving birds, a lightweight, well-balanced 20 SxS gets the nod - Those are MY preferences - others will share differing opinions

[Virginian]

There is no such thing as a side-by-side shotty, and I don't think there's any over and unders in there either.

[reckless carolinian]

Easy there, Virginian, that's just what the kids call them these days

[Milkmaster]

I guess I have to agree with Virginian on this one. If the guy is a newbie and wants an education, then he should be taught proper or accepted terminology :)

He will acquire more friendly advice and information especially from us older guys if he does not refer to our beloved shotguns as "Shottys" or "Shotties".

"Shotgun", and even "Scattergun" seems to be just fine with me.

Back to the original post...Oneounceload covered it pretty well.

[Sauer Grapes]

I have shot one of them thar CZ's in 20ga. Guy at the range had one. Seemed like a decent gun.

I started out shooting SxS guns. Great hunting guns, not so popular on the clay fields.

I'm with Virginian, please, no shotty. :(

[ricklin]

Thank you, no shotty please...
As for the original question I have had SXS guns for years, but have recently become enamored with the O/U. Get one of each, or more...
I do love a light SXS 20 with two triggers and straight grip for the uplands.

[ArmedBear]

Bear in mind, also, that not all O/Us handle the same. Some of them feel distinctly taller than SxS, whereas some of them are neutral in handling.

Compare a Browning Citori to a Browning Cynergy at the store, for an example.

Also, if you want to know what a shotgun feels like, you have to move it around. Simply shouldering it doesn't tell you that much.

[MCgunner]

I own two SxSs and never owned a O/U. I've had the hankerin' for an O/U, just never owned one. I use 'em hunting, don't shoot clays much, nothing formal when I do. I don't really consider our club shoots as formal. :D What the doubles offer me as opposed to my repeaters is light, quick handling and light weight afield. The light weight afield is one of the reasons for my old 12. At the time I bought it, 1971, I goose hunted a marsh area that required a 2 mile walk in the salt grass. Lighter was better even for an 18 year old in great shape. Now I'm a 57 year old in POOR shape. :rolleyes: The payback on that old 12 gauge twice pipe is recoil. That damned thing will pound you with heavy goose loads. When I was 18, I didn't care. I hunt with a H&R 10, now, and the recoil is LESS. Go figure, but that should tell you something. that 12 is about 6 lbs, the 10 is about 9 lbs and does fit better, makes all the difference.

Anyway, I'd thought of getting an O/U just because I don't have one. Figured I'd put it off and get a quality one like a Citori or Red Label, that price range. But, after reading comparo threads on those two, I'm not so sure i wouldn't be better off with a 400 dollar Yildz! It fit me pretty well at Academy, swings sweet, light and fast in 20 gauge, the one I was looking at. At this point, if I do get one, it'll likely be a Yildz. I was considering buying one when I found my Spartan SxS coach gun at a gunshop, screw in chokes for dove hunting, short enough for a back pack or to stuff in my motorcycle bags for a hunting trip once taken down. I liked that and the gun has turned out to be a dove killin' machine. :D But, I STILL don't have an O/U, not that I really have a need for one, just sayin'.

I'm not into high end guns, way out of my lot in life to be affordable. I don't buy CARS that cost 30K. Hell, I ride MOTORCYCLES to save money, though I grew up on 'em from the age of 13, so it's a natural. The Spartan is at least a rugged, tough gun. It's not going to impress an aristocrat with find wood, ornate engraved hunting sceens, or skip line checkering, but by God it shoots and kills things and it's pretty danged well built. It's quite well regulated out to 40 yards, shoots where I look. Could I want more other than looks? I'd rather have rugged in the field than looks, anyway, frankly. I don't own a pipe and tweed jacket, don't even smoke. I wear jeans and T shirts. I'm a low class, if educated, redneck step son of a dozer operator. I'm not in Teddy Roosevelt's blood line. Gold inlays aren't high on my list, though i've always longed for custom fitting. For a lot less money than a Purdey custom, I could have custom wood fitted I guess. That'd be kinda dumb, spend all that money on a 300 dollar gun. :rolleyes:

Anyway, all the talk about what works on the skeet range I will pass to others on their experience. In the field, SxSs, even cheap ones, can work quite well, but finding one that fits fairly well is important. Most of 'em, the way they're made, can't be shimmed to fit. I suppose I can live without a O/U. The threads on the Red Labels and Citoris have convinced me of that. :D For bird hunting, I have my SxS Spartan or my Winchester autoloader as preferences and for waterfowl, nothing beats a cheap, rugged pump IMHO.

[nicksterdemus]

Hard to say no to a 6.5lbs 12 gauge O/u or a 6lb 20gauge O/U @ 400 clams.

The 20gauge yute mod w/26" brls is around 5.5lb and that's lightweight SxS territory.

Had to have one and I wish Academy imported a 12 gauge yute w/26" or 24" brls coz Yildiz makes them and I'd buy one.

Academy has one model SxS that comes in .410 or twenty and three models of O/U.

The second tier is the Special and the only difference is nicer furniture and hand carved engraving. As the SPZ ME it comes in 12 or 20 w/28" brls.

The third mod is the yute and it only comes in 26", 13.25 LOP in 20ga @ $429.

[MCgunner]

Another bonus for ME for the Yildiz is that all warranty work is done by Briley in Katy, Texas, about 2 hours up the road.

[nicksterdemus]

Yep, three year warranty except I understand Briley allowed their FFL to expire and are currently not accepting or shipping out firearms/receivers at this moment.

I'm sure they'll get it lined out quick enough though.

----------------------------------
If I lived in your neck of the woods I'd probably do the same...

[MCgunner]

Who needs shipping, I'd just plan the trip around Katy Mills Mall. :D

[oneounceload]

Hard to say no to a 6.5lbs 12 gauge O/u or a 6lb 20gauge O/U @ 400 clams.

Unless it doesn't fit or breaks after 20 shots.............. ;)

[MachIVshooter]

What do you want to do with it? I love the nostalgia and cool factor of SxS scatterguns, but for upland birds and clays, I prefer an O/U.

[tactikel]

I've owned both for may years, and have always shot better with the OU. The wide sight plane of a SxS SHOTGUN, seemed to be distracting. Try or at least mount as many of each as you can to find the one that feels right. 90% of the game I've taken over the years has been with an OU.

[nicksterdemus]

"Unless it doesn't fit or breaks after 20 shots"

Yep, yet Academy has been selling the Yildiz O/U since at least 2005 and although everything mechanical will fail w/use at some point I feel good about the Y's track record among it's entry level peers.

What are you going to buy new in a 12 or 20 O/U for 400 clams that comes fitted?

I'd like a 12.75" LOP, 7/16" cast off 1" DAC w/3.5" DAH.

I'm short armed, no neck, I don't like tilting my head to the right or forward and favor an open stance.

I can't add cast off, but luckily for me I can lop of the standard stock to around 13" if needed.

Seriously, I've never been fitted in my life so how much is the going rate?

Is this one of those gratuitous amenities that they throw in if I purchase from the 3 grand and up bracket?

Do I need a Platinum card?

Will I be served a flute of dry champagne or sparkling wine and smuggled Beluga cavier on a cracker, by a leggy spokesmodel/receptionist w/gams to die for, while waiting?

Do I have to upgade to the 5K table for a little stimulating conversation w/aforementioned SM/receptionist?

My Dad's M-37 stock was too long and coupled w/30" brl made for quite the balancing feat. I can't bring myself to cut the stock and though it doesn't fit I still manage to hit a few critters.

If I ever laid down hard cash for a fitted stock I'd expect it to come w/laser assisted range, brl selection and trajectory acquisition.

Oh yeah, it needs to beep when it's time to drop the hammer.

[Will Fennell]

Back to the OP's question,.....

Pro's and Con's of O/U's and SxS's. The only technical advantage that favors the SxS[ the only one that holds water] is the it loads faster since when you break the, barrels open, it has to swing thru a shorter arc to expose the open chambers. Other than that, and sentimental/nostalgic values, given a comparison of guns of equal workmanship and equal handling qualities, there is no advantage of a SxS over an O/U.

That is why NO ONE shoots SxS's seriously in competition any longer, and hasn't for many decades, unless the games is SxS specific.

The O/U has a narrow(er) sighting plane than the SxS, that allows the shooter to see around and under the gun so that targets[birds] can be seen while they are under the barrels with relation to the eyes. This allows for much better engagement of targets that are rising or passing straight over head. Plus, the narrow barrel profile allows for much more precise feel of the barrel placement to the target in all presentations.

While there is a generalization of SxS's being lighter and "faster handling" than O/U's, there are plenty of examples of light and nimble O/U's, and heavy and stable[ or worse, "clunky"] SxS's.

If you want a gun like "the old days", by all means get a SxS. If you want a shotgun that will be easier to shoot well, think about a O/U[ or a pump/semi auto].

Either way you go, if you plan on shooting it much, if price is an issue[ it is for almost all of us], rather than a super low cost gun of questionable heritage, explore the possibilty of a better quality, brand name used gun. When it has a problem, it will be much easier to get serviced.


Welcome to the sport!

[ArmedBear]

The only technical advantage that favors the SxS[ the only one that holds water] is the it loads faster since when you break the, barrels open, it has to swing thru a shorter arc to expose the open chambers.

Even that is dubious in the real world. Since a hammerless break-action cocks on opening, IMO the checkered foreend of an O/U gives you a nice handle and the slightly longer travel of the barrels reduces cocking effort. You have slightly longer travel, but more friendly operation. Actually reloading may be a bit easier with a SxS, since lining up the shells is a tad simpler. Still, I've reloaded an O/U on the fly, and it doesn't seem to take any longer than a SxS ejector gun if you have quick access to a couple of shells on a belt holder or something.

So I'm not disagreeing with the simple facts; I am just suggesting that "faster loading" is probably not the reason to choose a SxS.

WRT handling, I think it was true for a long time that an O/U felt very different from a good SxS. (I'm putting aside, for the sake of discussion, some popular but truly awful SxS guns WRT handling, like the 12 Gauge 311.) However, that changed when Over/Under was no longer synonymous with John Browning's receiver design. Browning (as in BACO, not John M) was late to the game, but their Cynergy offers SxS-style handling in an O/U. Others were earlier to offer this.

This is not meant to put down a good SxS. There are some wonderful guns out there, with world-class handling, and they happen to be SxS shotguns. That doesn't negate what Will Fennell says. He's right.