[Baldeagle]

I'm pondering for a new lever rifle. Guess I'm asking for opinions (pros and cons) between the Marlin 1895 and the 1895 cowboy. Thanks in advance for any and all opinions on this matter.

[1911Tuner]

The Marlin is a strong rifle that will take hotter loads than factory standard .45-70 which has to be held low because there are a fair number of '73 Trapdoor Springfields around that are still workin'. Loading manuals show three levels of data for the cartridge...the heaviest being reserved for the brute strong Ruger Number 1 and others of its class. Marlin data is in the middle.

As far as which Marlin, there isn't a difference in the basic design...only in the furniture.
They're equally strong. If you handload, you may find that the Micro-Groove rifling doesn't like cast bullets. IIRC, the Cowboy model has cut rifling that is compatible with cast bullets...so that may be a consideration.

In the FWIW category, I think that the .45-70 has become an underrated cartridge in this day of belted magnum super-screamers. For hunting anything from Whitetail Deer with light hollowpoints to the big bears with heavy, solid bullets, it's perfectly capable of taking anything that you're likely to encounter on the North American continent. The drawback...if it is one...is the trajectory past 200 yards. The other drawback is that factory ammunition is expensive, and your choices are limited. The .45-70 is a good handloading candidate as you've got a lot more flexibility with it. Heavy cast bullets are also great. A marriage made in heaven. IMR 3031 is a good powder for heavy loads, regardless of bullet weight. If you load with jacketed bullets, 4895 works well when loaded to the upper ranges with heavier bullets, but not so well with cast.

[Badlander]

I like the guide gun best. Short ,handy and powerful. What is not to like.
The 1895LTD is sweet if you can find one and don't mind the higher price. 18" octagon barrel.

[Gunfighter123]

I have owned both and like the Cowboy better ---- for one , you get more rounds in it and I like the straight grip over the pistol grip.

The 1895 I had with Micro-Groove was as accurate as my CB with the Ballard rifleing --- I like IMR 4198 and had good results with plated and lead bullets from 300 grs. to 500 gr.
I had good scores at Cowboy Silt. out to 400 yards with the factory sights --- you will need a "ladder" rear sight if you shoot at longer yardage.

IIRC --- the CB is factory drilled for a tang site and the 1895 is not.

[GPWASR10]

I got a 1895CB, man this is a real riflemens rifle for sure. And that 26" BBL really ramps up the big rounds speed.

[Baldeagle]

Ok, I'm gathering that the 1895 doesn't like cast bullets. And the 1895 cowboy will shoot either accurately...right? I own several rifles that if I know before hand that I'll perhaps have shots upwards of 200 yards and more that I can use. Also I have a Marlin 444, Marlin 336A(30/30) and a Marlin 336 35 remmy. I'm looking to add to my collection of levers. I'm leaning towards the cowboy but have yet to actually make my mind up between the two. Thank you all for your opinions.

[Maverick223]

I don't currently own either (but do have a .45-70Govt. and love the round), I plan to get a Marlin 1895SBL which is the guide gun in SS with full tube magazine, laminated wood, picatinny rail with ghost ring irons, and large loop (which I am not particularly fond of). I also like th CB version, but already have a rifle that fills that role (with an even longer bbl :D).

:)

[highlander 5]

Marlin's microgroove rifling didn't work well with cast bullets but it can be bore lapped to accept cast bullet loads. The current Ballard rifling will work quite well with lead bullets.
Had a Browning 1886 years ago and it would hold 9 45/70 rds with a 450 gr cast bullet,that's some serious fire power

[U.S.SFC_RET]

I am kind of interested in the 45-70 cartridge in lever action. Maybe one day I will come across a deal I can't pass up. I have been reloading for awhile so thanks for the tip Tuner.




Just a note.

I bought one of those Handi-Rifles buffalo gun off my brother Still NIB. If anyone wants to make an offer she is still around.

[Baldeagle]

From the looks of it, if I decide to get the cowboy(1895) I'll need to get involved with loading my own pills(?)...I suppose from what I've read, to get the full potential of the 45-70 cartridge I'll need to do so anyways...decisions....ughh...

[Maverick223]

I suppose from what I've read, to get the full potential of the 45-70 cartridge I'll need to [handload] anyways...Yes, most factory fodder is anemic compared to what the average action can handle. To really tap the potential you need a Browning/Winchester 1885, Ruger No. 1/3, or a Siamese Mauser (roughly in order of action strength from what I have heard). Then you can get into the really hot stuff (level III loads, which are roughly equivalent to .450Marlin factory loads).

:)

[Maj Dad]

I bought an 1895 at the Ft. Benning PX in 1974, put a Weaver K3W on it in 1977, sighted it in for 300 gr bullets (HP or FN, Hornady or Sierra, doesn't care) and it has shot honest 1" groups ever since. I tried 405 gr leads in it but didn't like the 3rd Law of Motion effect - hard curved butt plate wasn't uncomfortable, it was painful. I have moved all over the world (never took it out of the states), carried it in cases & crates, stood it in closets, locked it in safes, and every time I pull it out, it puts them in that same little hole. I use 53-56 gr 3031, whatever cases and whatever primers. It is a true mule, and I love it. I might get another one... :cool:

[Abel]

I too want a 1895 45-70. I would be way more interested in the non-cowboy version because I am a deer hunter, not a cowboy. Cows stink. Cattle roping and rootin'-tootin' re-enacting might be fun too, but I am more interested in a Guide version of the 1895, or the regular 1895 with the 22" barrel at the longest. The newest Marlin 45-70 is the 1895GBL, now available through Marlin dealers, even if said dealer doesn't know it.

45-70GBL:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/montanamarine/45-70/IMG_1828.jpg

No, not my rifle. Owned by a poster here:
http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/board,56.0.html

[Baldeagle]

What is given up when using an 18.5" barrel ballistically as opposed to a longer barrel, let's say 26" as the 1895 cowboy has?

[Maverick223]

What is given up when using an 18.5" barrel ballistically as opposed to a longer barrel, let's say 26" as the 1895 cowboy has?I would estimate about 300-400fps and a significant difference in drop.

:)

[craneman]

OMG, I want an 1895GBL so very bad.....someday:banghead:

[Baldeagle]

At the moment, I'm leaning towards the cowboy version of the 1895. The Gunshop inwhich I'll be dealing with gave me a price of $649.00 out the door. After looking at Gunbroker, this seems to be a really good deal...Am I right on this assumption?

[MachIVshooter]

I would estimate about 300-400fps and a significant difference in drop.

More like 150-200. The .45-70 uses medium burn rate powders, like the '06, .308 and other cartridges with a 50-65 gr. capacity.

[Maverick223]

More like 150-200.You may very well be (and probably are) right, but still a significant change. Fortunately you do get a good bit handier rifle for that change in bbl length. For hunting in the brush I think it is a worthwhile compromise.

:)

[Abel]

For hunting in the brush I think it is a worthwhile compromise.


That's an understatement! If I had the 26" barrel, I think I could figure out how to bring it to 20" or 22" in a hurry....and add a recoil pad.

[Coltdriver]

I got an 1895 instead of the cowboy.

I prefer the pistol grip on the 1895.

The 45 70 is one of the most versatile cartridges out there. You can load anything frmo plinkers up to very potent rounds. But even a 405 grain round going 1400 fps will pass right through an elk.

The wood they come with is nothing special but there is better available. I put this fore arm on mine.

I also put a grind to fit limb saver on it and I made a cartridge holder. The scope is a Leupold 1 -4 X 20 which is about all I need.

Put Weaver see through scope mounts on it which has not be tried yet. Others tell me they are not good but I like the way it places the scope. They are not in this pic.

I have a large loop lever but it needs some machining to work right so it is not installed yet.

My next project with it is to get some 405 grain bullets and try to figure out a load and how it flies out to around 250 yards. They have quite an arc.

[wleoff]

I'm down to three 45-70 rifles. The top one in the photo is a Cowboy. I did also have a Guide Gun for the truck, but decided that it was overkill for anything in Alabama. The Guide Gun will be louder and recoil more using common loads, plus the loss in velocity. I like the balance on the Cowboy plus it's relatively light to carry. I've shot both lead and copper bullets in it with good accuracy. I've been using XMP 5744 powder for years. Also Buffalo Bore used to make pretty hot 45-70 rounds if you don't want to reload. Good luck.
http://i416.photobucket.com/albums/pp244/wleoff/70Rifles.jpg

[Baldeagle]

I want to thank each of you that have posted with your opinions and knowledge. I'm still scratching my head on this. The cowboy is probably the route I'll be going,even though I don't load ammo (for now), Maybe down the road I can get into that at a slow pace after doing some research and reading up on the matter. Wouldn't want to blow myself up by my not knowing what I'm doing. All the rifles inwhich has been posted here are great looking rifles. Again thank you.

[Robert]

The only draw back to the Cowboy that I can see, and this coming from a guy who really wants one, is the barrel length. That is one heck of a barrel. I play on taking my 1895G Elk hunting this year if I draw tags. I love my G, but would love to have a Cowboy to go along with it.

[thebigc]

i have a marlin 45-70 guide gun 22in barrel i think i bought myself for my birthday last year and havent fired yet because i dont belong to a range i ran some snap caps through it i wish i had gotten the cowboy or a longer mag tube verison when i get the cash its going off to wwg for the full legnth tube i just grabbed it because it was the only one i had ever seen for sale in a store and now they stock them all the time i want a stainless one to go with it

[tcrocker]

My 1895 GS don't mind cast bullets. Here is a couple ox examples. Thats two hogs one over 250lb, a couple deer. The cast bullet I use I cast myself out of wheel weights they come in at 464gr. As you can see they make a nice big hole but don't bruse the meat like jacked bullet, I just keep them nice and slow around 1600fps. the case in the pic is a 30-06 for size. Ever thing was a through and through except the large hog it stoped in the off side leg in the bone.
http://http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss8/crockerthomas/th_P1010071.jpg (http://s556.photobucket.com/albums/ss8/crockerthomas/?action=view&current=P1010071.jpg)http://http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss8/crockerthomas/th_P1000404.jpg (http://s556.photobucket.com/albums/ss8/crockerthomas/?action=view&current=P1000404.jpg)http://http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss8/crockerthomas/th_P1000320.jpg (http://s556.photobucket.com/albums/ss8/crockerthomas/?action=view&current=P1000320.jpg)http://http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss8/crockerthomas/th_P1000294.jpg (http://s556.photobucket.com/albums/ss8/crockerthomas/?action=view&current=P1000294.jpg)http://http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss8/crockerthomas/th_P1000032.jpg (http://s556.photobucket.com/albums/ss8/crockerthomas/?action=view&current=P1000032.jpg)

[dodge]

I have a guide gun and with my handloads I'm getting 1800 fps with a 350 gr bullet. I'm here to tell you that there is nothing in the lower 48 states that I wouldn't hunt with this load. The recoil with this load is about like shooting a 12 guage shotgun.

[ky40601]

Really enjoy my Marlin Model 1895G Guide Gun.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff159/ky40601/Guns/aMarlinModel1895GGuideGun45-70SN010.jpg

I know it may be a little off topic but couldn’t resist more .45-70 options.

Springfields top - Model 1873, bottom - Model 1884
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff159/ky40601/Guns/SpringfieldModelTrapdoor45-70top-Mo.jpg

Jackie

[schlockinz]

I really love my 1895 guide gun, my previous favoured gun, 30.06, has been seeing much more safe time. I can punch about a 1in group on avg at 100yds with it (I've shot tighter, and maybe one looser)

Don't know much about the cowboy guns, I looked at them and decided that with a barrel that long it defeated its intended purpose as a brush gun. As for the 5 round capacity, i don't think that I've ever needed that many rounds, things tend not to move after the first hit :evil:

[Oic0]

What do you guys think about one of the .454 casull lever actions as a 45-70 substitute? They have really been tugging at me. More ammo, about the same power, the funny effect of handing friends a little cartridge to put in the little ol lever action then watching their shock as the little cartridge knocks the heck out of their shoulder :D

[schlockinz]

I think that the speed and weight still go to the 45/70, but the casull is very impressive

[Maverick223]

What do you guys think about one of the .454 casull lever actions as a 45-70 substitute?What do I think?...I think there is no substitute for a good .45-70Govt.! The .454Casull (or a .460S&W) can't touch a good, stout load from a .45-70 in a rifle suitable for such punishment. Doesn't mean it is a bad gun (or cartridge), just not a .45-70. FWIW, I really want a nice lightweight rifle that can take .460S&W, .454Casull, .45LC, and .410cal. shotgun (which doesn't exist...at least that I know of).

:)

[dan3]

I have two marlin 1895s - both 22" blued/walnut. If you plan on woods/brush hunting I'd suggest the 22" barrel (never liked the 18" guide model - found the 22" just as easy thru the brush). If you're shooting in the open areas - either Standard or Cowboy version will work just fine.I had originally planned on modifying one of my 22"ers with a full length mag tube - then I "discovered" the 26" Cowboy version... now that really pulled my trigger - plan on grabbing one soon. I love the idea of putting a peep sight set up or old style "ladder" sight on that 26" barrel. - wondering how difficult it is to convert the straight grip to pistol grip - can the lower receiver section, lever, and straight butt stock be swapped with one of the standard model's pistol grip configuration that I already have??? Huummm - I'll have to look into that modification.

[Maverick223]

wondering how difficult it is to convert the straight grip to pistol grip - can the lower receiver section, lever, and straight butt stock be swapped with one of the standard model's pistol grip configuration that I already have?Not hard at all, should be just a simple parts swap with no fitting necessary.

:)

[1858]

wondering how difficult it is to convert the straight grip to pistol grip - can the lower receiver section, lever, and straight butt stock be swapped with one of the standard model's pistol grip configuration that I already have???

That's exactly what I did with my Guide Gun and XLR (see below). I much prefer the pistol grip stock so I swapped the necessary parts to improve the handling of the lighter Guide Gun. This weekend I plan on shooting .45-70 loads (405gr with VV N130 powder) over my chrono so I'll put this velocity from a 24" barrel vs 18.5" barrel debate to rest. If the 24" barrel on the XLR isn't much faster than the Guide Gun, I'll chop the barrel down to 20" or so to improve handling.

http://128.171.62.162/hawthorn-engineering/thr/marlin/xlr_guide_gun.jpg

:)

[Baldeagle]

1858, would you post the out come? Just may help me make my mind up on what 45-70 I'll purchase.

[1858]

Baldeagle, sure ... I'll put five of the same load through each and see what I get.

:)

[cz85cmbt]

The .45-70 will only lose 50-75 fps between the cowboy and the and the 22" version. There is a great handloader magazine where the author takes it to africa for cape buffalo. You can also load the marlin up to 43,000 psi safely. The load manuals stick generic "lever gun" data together because of winchester big bores, brownings, and early marlin designs, but the modern marlin will take 43,000 psi loads. The solid the author shot his bull with went straight through the bull and killed a cow on the other side of it. He also compares velocity lose in this article from 26", 22", and 18.5" barrels, sometimes only losing 35 fps between lengths.

[1858]

With only 5-1/2" difference between the 24" XLR barrel and 18-1/2" Guide Gun barrel I'm not expecting much difference at all. In fact, the difference might get lost in the noise ... no pun intended. :D If there isn't an appreciable difference in velocity, I'm going to be wondering my Marlin put a "long" barrel on the XLR in the first place.

:)

[Maverick223]

You can also load the marlin up to 43,000 psi safely.I have read the same thing, and plan to test it out to about 40kPSI, but I will proceed cautiously and work up slowly just in case.

:)

[Ridgerunner665]

+1 to what 1911 tuner said...but all newer marlin 1895's now have Ballard cut rifling.

And...very little velocity is lost with the 18.5 inch barrel, the 45-70's expansion ratio evens it out nicely. I prefer a 22 inch barrel Marlin, it balances better...and looks better IMO. Also, that little bit of extra weight helps tame the recoil which some people find downright brutal with hot loads and 405 grain bullets.

Reloading...H4198 is best for hot loads and heavy bullets, but H322, IMR 3031, Reloder 7 also work quite well.

And I agree with Tuner...the 45-70 is vastly underrated by most people, to those people I say this...Screw on a recoil pad boys, the 45-70 has entered the 21st century.

Its trajectory is curved...but 300 yards is well within its range with a little practice, Reflex does this like its nothing (offhand no less), he has a few videos on YouTube.

43,000 psi...yes you can, but I keep mine around 38-40,000 psi, a little margin for error and with 405 grain bullets plenty enough recoil for me.

[Maverick223]

Reloading...H4198 is best for hot loads and heavy bullets, but H322, IMR 3031, Reloder 7 also work quite well.I will have to give that a shot. To be honest I started with RL-7 and it has been so good that I have never looked for anything else.

:)

[Ridgerunner665]

I started with H322...but some very knowledgeable guys have recommended I try H4198 and I'm going to...as soon as I can find some locally.

[Maverick223]

I have worked up some real burners with RL-7, but if I can add an extra 100fps or so (as my manual suggests) that may be in the works soon. I hope I can find it locally, I don't use H-4198 for anything else, so I have never really looked.

:)

[Ridgerunner665]

I only want 1850 fps from 405's...so the H322 works quite well for that. Some say the H4198 is a bit more accurate, but I don't know. H4198 will get you the highest velocity possible with heavy bullets (over 400 grains).

For 300 grain bullets...H322 may well be the best option, as it can be slightly compressed, which is a plus for accuracy most of the time.

[redneck2]

I use 400 Speer FP's over Varget, somewhere between 50 & 60 grains (don't remember off hand). Load came out of the Lyman book and is upper mid-range for the 1895's. Supposed to give maybe 1,700 or so IIRC. Lyman has a good variety of lever loads.

First thing I did was add a Decelerator pad. I thought it would kick the snot out of me. It's actually not bad to shoot, not nearly as bad as 12 gauge with slugs.

[Ridgerunner665]

Varget works, but its a tad too slow burning to maximize the velocity. You can get 1800 fps with Varget and 400 grain bullets...and its not possible to overload the 45-70 with Varget, the case wont hold enough to blow a Marlin 1895 up.

Some say its quite accurate if you can get it to burn good and consistent. It often leave a lot of unburned powder in the barrel but some say this can be fixed with the right bullets and a heavy crimp.

And I realize there is a lot of "some say" in there...these are quite knowledgeable folks I'm quoting though (most are from Marlin Owners forum)...I do have first hand experience with Varget though, it was the first powder I tried when I set out to load "level II" 45-70 loads...it gives a boost to the 45-70, but H4198 makes it a whole nuther monster (as does H322)

The pressure data for Varget on Hodgdens website was attractive...but I have since found out that not enough pressure is no good either, as it takes at least 35,000 psi to get these powders to burn clean

[Ridgerunner665]

Then you can get into the really hot stuff (level III loads, which are roughly equivalent to .450Marlin factory loads)

You've misunderstood the levels I think Maverick223...level II is roughly in the ballpark of the 450 Marlin.

Level III loads are nipping at the heels of the 458 Winchester Magnum.

[Maverick223]

You've misunderstood the levels I think Maverick223...level II is roughly in the ballpark of the 450 Marlin.

Level III loads are nipping at the heels of the 458 Winchester Magnum.Not according to Lyman's No. 49, but never you mind...I run mine that way. If I can't get a 300gr. to 2400fps, it's time to add more powder (course this isn't in a Marlin either). I think I will have to add more case pretty soon though...just running plumb out of room. Time to add an additional 1.125in. or so...that should fix me up and let me surpass that pansy .458WM. :D

[Ridgerunner665]

Hmmm...Lyman must use a different scale. My bad...

I've always went by this:

Level 1 = 28,000 psi (trapdoor)
Level 2 = 43,000 psi (modern lever actions)
Level 3 = 50,000 psi (Ruger #1 and #3, Siamese Mauser conversions)

[Baldeagle]

You guys are really enticing me to get into loading... Did you all just jump into it without having anyone to guide you along? Just wondering...

[Ridgerunner665]

No...I got a helping hand from a guy I know that has been loading for quite some time, even has a couple of "wildcats" under his belt.

Reloading is a hobby unto itself...I love it.

You would be fine without a helping hand though...there are a few books available that many use to get started (ABC's of Reloading for one)

[Ridgerunner665]

BTW...here is one of my Marlins, I just bought this one a little while back. I have another one just like it that I have had for a long time, it has the MicroGroove rifling though...I bought the new one for "heavy lead", the Ballard cut rifling is better suited to this.

I am having a stock and fore arm made for it out of some beautiful black walnut lumber, I also have a Skinner receiver sight at home that I haven't had a chance to put on it yet (I haven't been home in 3 weeks, truck driver)

This rifle is going with me to hunt elk and grizzly in the timber...my lifelong dream hunt (up close and personal with something big and mean) will finally take place, not this coming season but the next.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/Ridgerunner665/132_3206.jpg

[Maverick223]

Hmmm...Lyman must use a different scale. My bad...

I've always went by this:

Level 1 = 28,000 psi (trapdoor)
Level 2 = 43,000 psi (modern lever actions)
Level 3 = 50,000 psi (Ruger #1 and #3, Siamese Mauser conversions)Wow, if that is correct (and I'm not saying it's not), I may not need to convert the old .45-70 to .45-120. Can you reference a manual that lists loads that high. My Lyman's (which I use most) only lists loads up to 40kPSI for Lvl. III. Oh and throw the Browning/Winchester 1885s in the Lvl. III category too. They are actually bit stronger than the Rugers and Mausers IIRC.

You guys are really enticing me to get into loading... Did you all just jump into it without having anyone to guide you along? Just wondering...I am self-taught (but I can read up on a subject and teach myself to do darn near anything), and have actually helped a couple others to get a start. Reloading can be a laborious process or quite fun depending upon the cartridge. .45-70 is the most fun and easiest to load that I have attempted (.223Rem. is the most monotonous), I really enjoy loading for the big cartridges, they are more forgiving and just plain more fun. Particularly the big straight wall cartridges. You really ought to give it a shot.

This rifle is going with me to hunt elk and grizzly in the timber...my lifelong dream hunt will finally take place, not this coming season but the next.Good luck on your upcoming hunt, RR.


:)

[1911Tuner]

RidgeRunner...the manuals place the falling block Sharps replicas in the same class as the Marlins. Shiloh Sharps states that their rifles will stand anything that a Ruger #1 will...but I'm a little skeptical on that point. Maybe the lower end of the Ruger data...

Baldeagle...

If you don't reload, you're missing one of the more interesting aspects of shooting. Owning a .45-70 without reloading is like pancakes without maple syrup. I just couldn't do it.

[Ridgerunner665]

Maverick223... http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

They list loads for all 3...drop down menu, select rifle
Next drop down menu...select 45-70 (modern rifle)

That will get you what you seek...

Hodgdens data is a bit hotter than most, but they list the pressure also. Some in psi, some in CUP.

What is your 45-70...a Ruger?

[Maverick223]

What is your 45-70...a Ruger?Browning 1885 High Wall with 28in. tube. :D Thanks for the loading information. Still a little light for my taste, but better than my current load.

:)

[Baldeagle]

I suppose getting attaining a 45-70 is the first step, mean while I'll see to it that I get some literature.books to read up/study on before I purchase reloading equipment. Thank you each and every one for passing along your opinions and wisdom. But don't let that stop you all from posting... so by all means.. keep it going because I'm rather enjoying it.

[Ridgerunner665]

Tuner,

Manuals are all over the place on the 45-70...no 2 agree on much of anything. Thats why I go to the link I posted for Maverick223.

I don't have any knowledge or experience with the falling block replicas or the Sharps, but I have eyeballed them at the gun shows (thinking about buying one, especially the Sharps)...they look strong, a lot of metal in them, but I'm with you on using Ruger data in one...thats a bit scary to me. (and I don't scare easily...LOL)

[Maverick223]

Manuals are all over the place on the 45-70...no 2 agree on much of anythingTell me about it, I mostly use Lyman's (my go-to manual), and A-Square (which doesn't even have .45-70 :eek:). I am glad you posted the Hogdon's reference, I have used it before, but apparently not for .45-70Govt.

:)

[1911Tuner]

I may not need to convert the old .45-70 to .45-120.

I can offer a little insight on the .45-120 if I may.

I had a C. Sharps chambered for that round. Loaded it with Goex and a 520-grain cast bullet. Heavy charge of Goex. Got a little advice if you wear dentures. Glue'em in good. This is not a version for the faint of heart nor the tender of shoulder.

[Ridgerunner665]

I'm sitting here trying to remember how much pressure that 1885 Highwall is rated to...I know it will take some pretty stiff loads, maybe even Ruger loads...but to go any hotter you'd be better off getting a T/C Encore in 458 Win Mag...I think.

Of course there would some nostalgia to go along with a 45-120...which would likely match the 458 in ballistics.

[Maverick223]

I can offer a little insight on the .45-120 if I may.Any loads for nitrocellulose for the .45-120. I want to get a 450-465gr. solid to about 2500fps (though I may settle that down to about 2300fps). No blackpowder for me...at least for right now. I'll make sure and glue in my fillings nice and tight.

I'm sitting here trying to remember how much pressure that 1885 Highwall is rated to...It is rated for Ruger No. 1/3 and Siamese Mauser, though I have heard that it is the strongest of these. Most manuals will not make mention of it because of the older examples that are still around and will not handle the pressure of the new Miroku models (such as mine).

:)

[1858]

Mav, Lee's Modern Reloading 2nd Edition has the following breakdown:

Up to 18,000 PSI - any .45-70
Up to 28,000 PSI - not safe in Trapdoor or Rolling Block
Up to 50,000 PSI - modern bolt action or Ruger single shot only

This implies that modern Marlins are safe around the 30,000 psi mark. I'm using VihtaVuori N130 powder and their reloading manual lists maximum pressures at around 30,000 PSI with the following warning:

WARNING: These loads are to be used only in modern rifles like Ruger #1 or 45-70's chambered on Mauser type bolt actions. They MUST NOT be used in old rifles with weaker actions like Trapdoor and old Marlin mod. 1895. The listed maximum loads do not exceed 210 MPa.

So it seems that VV has a similar approach to Lee. I've shot max published VV N130 loads (405gr JSP) and they're STOUT in both the XLR and the Guide Gun. I can't imagine trying anything around 43,000 PSI!! :what:

:)

[Ridgerunner665]

I've shot 43,000 psi loads...and yes, pull your hat down tight before doing so...ESPECIALLY with 405 grain bullets.

The hot rodded 405 grain bullets have more recoil than 525's and 550's.

A 405 @ right about 2,000 fps is a mean SOB...on both ends of the rifle.

[Maverick223]

WARNING: These loads are to be used only in modern rifles like Ruger #1 or 45-70's chambered on Mauser type bolt actions. They MUST NOT be used in old rifles with weaker actions like Trapdoor and old Marlin mod. 1895.Yes it should be noted that the rifles detailed in this thread should NOT use any of the aforementioned stout loads. The Marlin is not good for 50kPSI, and attempting such loads would be unsafe and unwise.

:)

[Ridgerunner665]

Modern Marlin 1895's... have been tested safe to 40,000 CUP (which is about 43,500 psi) for over 20 years now.

[Baldeagle]

[QUOTE]I am having a stock and fore arm made for it out of some beautiful black walnut lumber

I work in the Custom cabinet/furniture business, And have quite a bit of black walnut lumber that has been air drying for there abouts of 6 years. Beautiful lumber it is. if I may ask, Whom are you using to make the gun furniture for you? Just might be interested in that as well.

[Ridgerunner665]

He is a friend of mine...Brush Creek Rifles.

You can see some of his work on LumberJocks.com forum, he has a 5 axis replicator that he uses to make the stocks.

He has made some BEAUTIFUL laminated stocks.

[Ridgerunner665]

Here is one of them...check his photo album though.

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/24750


My favorite one... http://lumberjocks.com/projects/19134

[JustsayMo]

I've had a few flavors of the Marlin 1895 in 45-70.
http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/Pathfinder/four4570.jpg

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/Pathfinder/1895ltdiiiprofile.jpg
Marlin 1895 LTD III

They've all been impressively accurate
http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/Pathfinder/50yard1895gs405gtarget.jpg

You really can't go wrong with any of them.

Most factory ammo really underachieves with this cartridge - my handloaded 315 grain cast loads in 45 Colt (Ruger levels) achieve better velocities than the typical 300 grain (Springfield level) 45-70 factory loads.

Cast bullets shoot well in both Ballard and Microgroove barrels provided they are sized correctly (.459"-.461") A .457" cast bullet will keyhole even out of my Ballard rifled 45-70s.

You really don't need to push a 400 grain bullet very fast for hunting. At blackpowder velocities a 400 grain or bigger bullet will easily pass through Elk and Bear, even lengthwise. As far as anyone knows in our hunting camp those bullets are still going ... :what: ;)

Velocity loss to barrel length is really only noticeable with loads that top 1700 fps. The gap narrows/disappears a lot at subsonic, black powder and lower level Levergun loadings.

Want to impress your friends? Gather and line up as many milk jugs as you can. Take the first shot with an AR in 5.56, replace the 4 or 5 it makes it through, shoot it with your 30-06, replace the 6 or 7 it makes it though then shoot it with a 45-70 jogging along at a mere 1250 fps... Let me know if you ever manage to stop one. I think we ran out of milk jugs at about 11!

[Maverick223]

Want to impress your friends? Gather and line up as many milk jugs as you can. Take the first shot with an AR in 5.56, replace the 4 or 5 it makes it through, shoot it with your 30-06, replace the 6 or 7 it makes it though then shoot it with a 45-70 jogging along at a mere 1250 fps... Let me know if you ever manage to stop one. I think we ran out of milk jugs at about 11!Been there done that, I think I ran out at about 12-14 jugs. I don't think there is enough jugs made to stop one. :what:

[Steve 48]

My Marlin Guide gun in 45/70 outshoots the cowboy all the time in accuracy!!

[Baldeagle]

That 1895 LTD III is a good looking rifle, as are all that has been posted. I've yet to see one of the LTD. There's something about those octagonal barrels that flip my switch... maybe it's just a phase that I'm going through. With that being said, I'm going to purchase a 45-70 for sure and very soon. Perhaps after I do I'll follow through with giving re-loading a shot, for both my .444 and the 45-70. Who knows, Maybe go as far as loading for the 35 rem as well. I'm sure this will be taken with baby steps for sure... learn as I go...

[JustsayMo]

The LTD III has the good looks of the Cowboy and the handiness of the Guide Gun. Tough to come by though, only 1,000 produced and owners don't let them go cheaply. Had to pay a ransom for mine, no regrets though.

[bad_aim_billy]

then shoot it with a 45-70 jogging along at a mere 1250 fps... Let me know if you ever manage to stop one. I think we ran out of milk jugs at about 11!


So, I take it a regular lower-powered round, like the 405 grain Remington soft point at 1330 fps, would be acceptable for big game? 1600 ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle doesn't seem like very much for elk or bear, or is this a case of the numbers not really telling the whole story?

[1911Tuner]

or is this a case of the numbers not really telling the whole story?

Numbers alone..."Paper Ballistics"...rarely give the whole story. On paper, the .223/55/3200 beats the .44 Magnum/240/1300 round, but which would you believe to cause the most damage...A light, fast hp bullet that penetrates 3 inches deep and blows up...or slow, heavy solid that will plow through the average Whitetail lengthwise?

[Ridgerunner665]

Remington 405 factory ammo...great for deer, but the bullet is a little soft for really big game (moose, bear, etc.).

It can and does work....but I have heard of a few shoulder shots not going so well (lack of penetration)

Replace that soft point Remington bullet with a hard cast lead...and 1330 fps is plenty for just about anything I can think of.

[TomADC]

I shoot two 45-70's a Trapdoor and a Sharps soon a Marlin I hope.
I shoot BP in the trapdoor & I'm working on some sub 29,000 c.u.p. loads for the Sharps using IMR 3031 & Varget powders.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL174/1021972/18168454/370401695.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL174/1021972/18168454/382624151.jpg

[JustsayMo]

So, I take it a regular lower-powered round, like the 405 grain Remington soft point at 1330 fps, would be acceptable for big game? 1600 ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle doesn't seem like very much for elk or bear, or is this a case of the numbers not really telling the whole story?

I used to be a fast and skinny bullet hunter - depending on bullet expansion, shock and "energy." Real world experience didn't mesh with the hype. Critters didn't always fall over quick or leave impressive blood trails with good hits from zippy little bullets.

After seeing another member of our camp take a deer with a (lowly-or so I thought at the time) big bore levergun and later another take an Elk with a blackpowder load in his Sharps with very impressive results, DRT - literal bang flops... I began questioning what I read in magazines and on the internet. My experience since my conversion seems to contradict the magazine ads - big slow bullets with rainbow trajectories CAN :what: kill critters and do it impressively.

A theory I've come to agree with is that a fast skinny bullet sends the animals system into shock instantly, locking enough oxygen in the brain and muscles to skedaddle quite a ways before realizing he's dead. The gut goo from the shock cavity plugs up the entrance hole and the exit hole if it happened to exit - which in my experience isn't a certainty with fast bullets which seem to not travel in a straight line inside a critter. So you end up with a critter amped up in full flight mode that isn't bleeding much resulting in a grid search rather than a track.

FWIW, arrows generate very little energy but kill amazingly well. One of the fastest Black Bear kills I've ever seen was a 15 yard archery kill that hit the 'off switch' and the Bear fell in his shadow.

[schlockinz]

Big slow bullets will generate a lot of penetration with little expansion. This is made up for with the flat face of the bullets and diameter of them as well. This makes an impressive wound channel and should be able to penetrate most anything in NA all the way through, as long as the bullet is good.

FWIW, what I've read about the original BP loads, they were supposed to be lethal on humans at a range of 3500 yards, and the bullet would enter at a 30 degree angle at that point...impressive.

[Maverick223]

Big slow bullets will generate a lot of penetration with little expansion....and big fast (by BP .45-70 standards) bullets will generate a lot of penetration with a good bit of expansion. I like 300gr. bullets driven fast for deer, and heavier (but still relatively fast) projectiles for anything larger. That said, any .45-70Govt. load does pretty decent on most any NA game IMO.

:)

[bad_aim_billy]

Remington 405 factory ammo...great for deer, but the bullet is a little soft for really big game (moose, bear, etc.).

It can and does work....but I have heard of a few shoulder shots not going so well (lack of penetration)

Replace that soft point Remington bullet with a hard cast lead...and 1330 fps is plenty for just about anything I can think of.

That's what I figured, and why I asked the question in the first place. It seems that for factory offerings, it's either the loads like the Remingtons, which seem a bit light in bullet construction for a shoulder shot, or +P offerings with more recoil than I would like. Doesn't seem to be too much in between. I guess if I ever get one and can reload for it, a cast bullet at 14-1600 would be about right as far as the power/recoil ratio goes. Ah well, more guns and calibers I can't afford... :(

[1858]

1858, would you post the out come? Just may help me make my mind up on what 45-70 I'll purchase.

I started a thread showing the results comparing the Guide Gun to the XLR.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=6297298#post6297298

I'm seriously going to consider cutting the XLR barrel down to 18.5" or 20" to make it more "handy" and more aesthetically pleasing. The extra 5-1/2" is good for around 75 fps it seems ... which can probably be made up with 0.5gr of powder or thereabouts.

:)

[Baldeagle]

If only if there weren't so many choices... The 1895GBL, 1895 LTDIII, and the cowboy models... all have a place in my world... one at a time of course...:evil:

[Maverick223]

I'm seriously going to consider cutting the XLR barrel down to 18.5" or 20" to make it more "handy" and more aesthetically pleasing.I see your point, but why do that when you already have a GG?

:)

[Ridgerunner665]

I'm seriously going to consider cutting the XLR barrel down to 18.5" or 20" to make it more "handy" and more aesthetically pleasing.


I'd go with 20"...

[FoMoGo]

A little reading that put a smile on my face...
http://the4570inafrica.blogspot.com/


Jim

[Big Boomer]

I've had mine now for a couple of years, great gun. I love the longer bbl but there is a HUGE disappointment.

I was told this gun was going to knock my fillings loose, breath fire out the front end and I would be badly bruised and beaten if I didn't take extra precaution for recoil and to avoid the hot loads unless I was utterly insane.

Folks, none of that happened. I was quite frankly looking for an ass kicker, now I am left wanting. I was ready to say this gun is as big as I ever want to go. Now I have myself looking at a 460 Weatherby mag and then ask but then what the hell would I hunt with it?!

It sorta like a race car, if it ain't just a little scary what's the fun in driving it?

[1858]

I see your point, but why do that when you already have a GG?

Mav, when I bought the Guide Gun and XLR, as far as I'm aware Marlin didn't offer a Guide Gun with a pistol grip laminate stock like the 1895SBL. Since the XLR doesn't offer much ballistic advantage, why have the extra length without the extra ammunition? To be honest, I'm not completely into the look of the 24" barrel without a full-length magazine tube like the Cowboy. Now that would be another possibility to improve the aesthetics and make something unique ... have a gunsmith add a full-length stainless magazine tube to the XLR ... sort of a stainless Cowboy. :)

I'd go with 20"...

I think that's the most likely choice since as Mav mentioned, I already have a Guide Gun. A 20 " barrel would be different while still improving handling. A full length magazine tube would be interesting but probably quite expensive compared to the easy task of lopping 4" off the barrel, crowning the muzzle and drilling/tapping for the front sight.

:)

[Ridgerunner665]

I've had mine now for a couple of years, great gun. I love the longer bbl but there is a HUGE disappointment.

I was told this gun was going to knock my fillings loose, breath fire out the front end and I would be badly bruised and beaten if I didn't take extra precaution for recoil and to avoid the hot loads unless I was utterly insane.

Folks, none of that happened. I was quite frankly looking for an ass kicker, now I am left wanting. I was ready to say this gun is as big as I ever want to go. Now I have myself looking at a 460 Weatherby mag and then ask but then what the hell would I hunt with it?!

It sorta like a race car, if it ain't just a little scary what's the fun in driving it?

I agree up to a point...the recoil is a bit blown out of proportion.

But with hot loaded 405 grain bullets...the recoil is stout. It is widely accepted that hot loads with 400 grain class bullets have the most recoil. The 500+ grain bullets at 1,550 fps have a good shove to them...but its just that, a good shove.

460...naaa, get a good 458 Win Mag. I have an old Model 70 in 458 and I don't shoot it much at all (nothing to hunt with it around here)...but I wouldn't sell it for anything.

[Maverick223]

I'm not completely into the look of the 24" barrel without a full-length magazine tube like the Cowboy. Now that would be another possibility to improve the aesthetics and make something unique ... have a gunsmith add a full-length stainless magazine tube to the XLR ... sort of a stainless Cowboy.I rather like that idea, but as you mentioned that might get expensive quick.

:)

[Hank Dodge]

I've had an 1895SS for many years. It loves the Remington CoreLock 350 grain JHP rounds. It's one ragged hole from the bench at a hundred with those.

I've shot the Cowboy quite a bit too. They are also a fine rifle. In fact, I think they balance better with the longer barrel and mag tube. If I was to buy one now, it would probably be the Cowboy. I prefer the more streamlined stock as well. It will shoot jacketed as well as lead just fine with the cut rifling.

[Baldeagle]

Well Guys, Today was the day.It was a long and thought out decision. I had the Gunshop order the 1895 CB(cowboy)..$639.00 + tax. In a few months, I'll go back and get the 1895GBL .. Again, thanks to all for your knowledge,opinions and pics in your post that assisted me in my quest for a 45-70 lever actioned rifle.

[Maverick223]

Good choice, don't for review+photos+targets.

:)

[lopezni]

awesome, i was gonna say get the 1895 cowboy, that is probably the best looking Marlin ever.

[Maverick223]

...that is probably the best looking Marlin ever.Agreed, perhaps not the most practical (but you'll have that covered with the GBL), but IMO it is definitely the best lookin' of the bunch.

:)

[TAG2501]

I have a 1895 CB and the barrel length is no big deal, The rifle is very handy for the length. The first time I hefted it, I was surprised at how light it was. of course with heay 45-70 loads that means the recoil is pretty stout, but with cowboy loads its a powder puff.

Also regarding the rifling, the 1895CB has cut Ballard rifling, not the micro-groove, so its just as happy with cast bullets as jacketed rounds.

[smokeyandthebandit05]

Of all this talk I love Marlin Levers. As of now I only own a 336 in 30-30 and have the itch to get another one but dont know what caliber

[Maverick223]

As of now I only own a 336 in 30-30 and have the itch to get another one but dont know what caliberYou do realize you're in a .45-70 thread...right?...so whatcha' expect to hear?....45-70! In all honesty the .30-06 (added range) and .405Win. (added power similar to the .45-70) are also good choices, but I like .45-70 best in a lever rifle.

:)

[Abel]

Of all this talk I love Marlin Levers. As of now I only own a 336 in 30-30 and have the itch to get another one but dont know what caliber

Check out the 336 model in 35 Remington.

[Maverick223]

Check out the 336 model in 35 Remington.The 35Rem. is a good cartridge, but it can't accomplish much more than the .30-30.

:)

[TomADC]

After a bunch of reading I loaded up 10 each to try out:

300 gr RCBS FP-GC Fed. 210 primer, 43.5 grs Varget Starline case.

405 gr Magma FP Fed 210 primer, 40.0 grs Varget Starline case.

I'll use these in my Pedersoli Sharps cup for each load is under 15,500 for both loads any thoughts

[JustsayMo]

I like Varget a lot in higher pressure caliber loads (30-06) but not so much in the 45-70. My favorite powder for the 45-70 cast loads is SR 4759, burns well even at lower pressures.

Might end up with a bunch of powder zombies with the Varget but I've only used it in 45-70 at the upper end of Levergun level loadings.

Let us know how it works out.

[Baldeagle]

Finally received the 1895 cowboy today...I'll give a range report and pictures at a later time after I've had the chance to take it to the range...With that being said, I must say that I thought the barrel would of been just a tad thicker than it actually is. I'm sure that I'm going to enjoy it.

[Franco]

Good luck. I bought the 1895 cowboy last year and I love it. The only downside is that the barrel is really long and the gun kind of heavy. It looks nicer than the regular lever marlins but you pay the price with bulkiness. I also found that I had to hammer the sights around quite a bit to get any accuracy at 100yds. Great gun to reload for with lots of bullet choices but if I had to do it over again, I would have bought the non-cowboy version.

[Baldeagle]

Here are a couple of pics that really aren't good pics, I'll make new ones perhaps tomorrow if the weather permits me to get to the range. Guess the next thing I need is a new sight(peep).. What do you all preferr?

[Maverick223]

What do you all prefer?Normally I'd say scope a Marlin, but not the Cowboy model. I think you are on the right track by looking into peeps. A tang mounted sight would be nice because it allows you to use it for longer (precision) shooting, whilst maintaining the original semi-buckhorn sight for closer engagements.

:)

[TomADC]

I have a 1894 in 44 mag. put a Williams FP-94/36-TK on it easy to use and didn't need to touch the front sight, fun shooting the steel chickens etc with that sight.

[Maverick223]

I have a 1894 in 44 mag. put a Williams FP-94/36-TK on it easy to use and didn't need to touch the front sight...That brings about a good point, I wouldn't get the TK (target knob) version, unless I didn't intend to use it for hunting. Just my personal preference; OTOH for target shooting the TK is great.

:)

[Oregun89]

Most that can be said about this cartridge has been said, so I will reserve the majority of what I would normally say about this round. (Thank you 1911Tuner, you said it all perfectly)

Now, what I will say. I purchased an 1895XLR the day after my 18th birthday. I then mounted a Nikon Team Primos 3-9x40mm scope. In the first box of ammo I shot through the rifle using the then brand new Hornady LeverEvolution ammunition, I discovered that my new rifle was capable of less than 1/2 MOA. The machine work on this rifle is fantastic, the accuracy is everything I could have wanted, and is a beautiful firearm to boot. Also, Hornady is now selling there LeverEvolution bullets in bulk,:D... Only if they weren't backordered...

Now, as for the effective range of this weapon, I would not hesitate to take an elk at 400-500 yards. I understand the ballistsic of my rifle, and I will use it to it's full potential.

[Badlander]

Franco
If that cowboy is to long for you have her cut back to 18". Handy with good looks!!

[jmalys]

I will chime in here.. I have an 1895GS and love it!

I have chronographed oregan trail 405 cast bullets over 49 grains of AA 2495 powder and got in the neighborhood of 1740 fps. Not sure of the pressure with this load, but theroetically it should be around 27,000 psi, so there is def. some room to move up in velocity. Plenty accurate too.

Looking at the reloading data I have, I believe I can get a 500 grain bullets moving out of the 18.5" barrell at around 1625fps and still be below 30,000 psi using AA 2495 powder....and to be honest, this is just freakin bad a$$. It would honestly be fun to shoot through some tree stumps or something to that effect.

The recoil is stout though and I did break down and buy a slip on recoil pad for it. Pachmeyer (I know I spelled that wrong, but it is close). Fits real nice, havent tested it yet though. But reading this thread makes me want to shoot my darn gun right now!! !!!! The 1895 is just plain fun. Enough said.

[MistWolf]

I love my Marlin 45-70. I found a limited edition with an 18" octagonal barrel and it's much handier than the longer barrel of my Cowboy model

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/MarlinLTDIII.jpg

[BHP FAN]

I think a Malcolm scope would make the rifle.

[BHP FAN]

http://www.leatherwoodoptics.com/images/images/mcl-short-11.jpg

[1858]

I have chronographed oregan trail 405 cast bullets over 49 grains of AA 2495 powder and got in the neighborhood of 1740 fps. Not sure of the pressure with this load, but theroetically it should be around 27,000 psi, so there is def. some room to move up in velocity. Plenty accurate too.


I've seen similar velocities with a Remington 405gr JSP in front of 48.5gr of N130 (VihtaVuori). This is a MAX load according to Lyman's 49th Edition. 10 shots from my XLR and Guide Gun averaged 1795 fps and 1723 fps respectively over a CED M2 about 15' from the muzzle. Recoil is stout but manageable from the prone position.

http://128.171.62.162/hawthorn-engineering/thr/marlin/range_targets/02-20-10/chronograph_data_1.jpg


MistWolf, I have to say, your Limited Edition is simply stunning!! I've got to find one of those!

:)

[JustsayMo]

MistWolf. Did you shorten the stock to put the recoil pad on there?

Being such a light rifle they can be punishing off the bench. I think my LTD III weighs over a half pound less than my GG.

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/Pathfinder/1895ltdiiiprofile.jpg
The perfect combination of good looks and handiness.

[TomADC]

480 grs with 10.5 grs of unique as a plinking load. Going to shoot them Monday.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL174/1021972/18168454/384166997.jpg

[Baldeagle]

Still haven't shot the 1895 cowboy as of yet,due to weather. While giving it a good going over while cleaning it I noticed that around the lettering on the barrel is raised. Looks as though when it was rolled with the device that puts the letters there caused it to pucker around each letter/number ...My other Marlins isn't like this. Should I call Marlin or take it to the dealer inwhich I bought it? Or just live with it as it is and enjoy it?

[Maverick223]

Or just live with it as it is and enjoy it?Yep, haven't really ever noticed it before, but I'd bet that all are like that.

:)

[billfrombyron]

First off Hi all, greetings and salutations and what not I'm fairly new(Posting, been lurking for a while)

I have had a love affair with this cartridge for about 15 years now and grew up shooting it. I still love the comments of "*** are you going to shoot with that?" "Or don't you think that's just a bit over kill?" and the classic......"That's just plain dumb, won't be any meat left after that thing hits the deer"...lol if only they knew how wrong they were.

A few thoughts from me on my favorite of all calibers.

I love my Marlin!

I hate the cross bolt safety so I do what my father showed me, and put a number 0 packing over the cross bolt and viola it blends in perfectly.

Have you guys tried IMR 4064 with 405gr cast bullets yet? To me, and I know this is just perception, it seems to cut the recoil and still maintain a good velocity.(I really need to chronograph this load when I go home next) Unfortunately I have to wait until May to go shooting next and have access to my data, but all loads were brewed up with Lyman 48th and 49th.

I almost exclusively shoot 405gr cast or soft points. Whats the biggest I can go on a 1895 action weight wise? I have been told that 420gr or so seems to be the limit, and I have never tired anything heavier than 405 in my guns. Defiantly looking for some input.

I love the 22" barrel, but I want to swap for a full length magazine tube, is this possible?

About heavy loads and rugers. My father had a ruger No 3 and being 18 and foolish I played with the recoil gods and loaded up 3 max loads. I distinctly remember firing the first round, but do not remember the last 2. I was all of 120lbs soaking wet at the time. I never repeated the process or those loads again, and I don't think I ever will. That was the first and last time I fired the No 3.

Limbsaver pads are nice, my father has one fitted to his cowboy that Im still trying to get him to part with. I'm intending to have one installed one of these days.

And just for fun, next time your at the range and some redneck asks you if he can shoot your 30-30, make sure to load up some nice stout 4198 405gr hot rod loads. I always keep one or 2 handy for just such an occasion. Its worth the reaction you get every time too. When I was at Ft Campbell, Ky it seemed to happen just about every range trip for a while.

Try just for fun sometime some 41 cal round balls with patch over 20-30gr ffg black for squirrel and rabbit and other small critters. Great time popping em with those, but I only load one in the chamber, and one in the mag.

Sorry if its a bit nonsensical.

-Bill

[JustsayMo]

Great stuff Bill. How do you seat the 41 cal round balls and what sort of accuracy are you getting with them?

[Ridgerunner665]

Bill,
The biggest you can go in a Marlin (that I am aware of) is the 550 grain Crater (google Jea Bok Young bullets)
Made just for Marlin 1895's

There is also the 525 Beartooth PileDriver.


1500-1600 fps can safely be achieved...recoil is less than with hot 405 grain loads and they will penetrate end to end on just about anything short of an elephant.

[Maverick223]

...and they will penetrate end to end on just about anything short of an elephant.I don't know about that...have you tried it on an elephant to be sure? :D

[billfrombyron]

For seating I just use a small wooden dowel to load patch and ball.

Then put a light crimp on the shell to hold it together. I seat the ball all the way down on the charge.

For cycling the lever just be slow and smooth. Otherwise load them one at a time.

As to the accuracy its good enough to hit a squirrel in the head to about 30M or so. Seems to hit poa to 30m then fall drastically from there, but great fun.

Make sure you use dedicated brass for this. I like to use remington brass that I have for these as it lasts longer. I use starline for everything else.

Give it a try sometime for kicks.

I am going to try some of the heavies when I get back home, thanks for the info yall!


-Bill

[JustsayMo]

Thanks Bill, I'll have to give that a try sometime. I've used RB in 30 caliber and 45 caliber (.454") firearms with good results. Never tried a patched ball in a cartridge case.

[Franco]

You guys are dead on about Leatherwood scopes. I'm planning on installing one this summer. It's such a beautiful cowboy style rifle that I hate to put a modern looking scope on it. If that doesn't work, I'll revert to open sites.

[WYLD]

I have a 1895 I bought for a recoil-reducing project. The project is over. The rifle has been modified by installing a peep rear sight, and an AR-style glow-in-the dark front sight. It took a liking to Speer 400 Grain SP's at 1850 fps. All testing was with custom stocks, the original walnut stocks are still new. And I do not need it anymore. total rounds fired is 67. If anyone is interested, send E-mail to wyld-ltd@yahoo.com