Another World


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1911Tuner
November 18, 2003, 06:33 PM
1964 was a good time for gun collectors, and especially for fans of the 1911. Colt was the only game in town if you wanted a commercial pistol. It came in 4 basic flavors: The Government Model...The Commander...Combat Commander, and the Gold Cup if you were a bullseye competitor. For any others, one had to seek out a USGI pistol. That was an easy task, since they were abundant and reasonably priced.

Gun shows were their main millieu, and I can remember pretty decent examples going for 50 bucks. Nice ones went up into the 70-80 dollar range, and the really pristine specimens commanded the premium prices in the 125-150 dollar range. The "collector class" had just been established, and Union Switch & Signals or Navy Colts were starting to climb toward 200 dollars. There was no paperwork required, and you were as likely to arrange a parking lot deal with the high sheriff as with anybody else. The pistols' conditions ranged from rough and loose to pretty decent...but they all worked. The magazines were all governement contract, and they worked too. For perspective, at that time a new, Royal Blue Colt Python would go home with you for $175.00 and a Smith Model 29 was about a buck-and-a-quarter...with a box of ammo thrown in to sweeten the deal.

I was 12 years old, and weekend gun shows were the place to be. My father and I haunted all within driving distance, and we rarely came home without at least one 1911. Colts and Rands were most often the prize for the day, but there were a couple of Union Switches and even a bare Singer frame once...Myfather was a tool and die maker, and his brother was a retired navy armorer. I got my first experience with rebuilding the old warhorses from them at age 13. We had to rebuild most of them because we were a working class family. We bought the 50-dollar guns. I remember one that came home with us for 35 bucks...in full working order. Rough as a cob. I still have it, and it still works. It was my first rebuild...the one my father let me learn on...because it was so rough. It's a 1918 production Colt, GI issue. Only the barrel was replaced.

Out came the calipers, files and stones. The guns were stripped and cleaned, and the process began. Frame rails were welded and recut. Very little rail "peening" was done...Swaging the rails down a little to eliminate vertical play was about all, and only enough to keep from seeing light between slide and frame at the dust cover. Small parts like extractors, firing pins, slidestops and such were fairly plentiful at the shows...and they were all GI New Old Stock...and none were governemnt rejects. I remember buying new extractors still in the paper for a buck. Firing pins were 3 for a dollar, and magazines were 50 cents each...5 dollars a
dozen.

Along came the influx of commercial pistols from other sources, and the war was on. Market shares and profit margins became the bottom line. Colt's pride was at stake, and they had to get more pistols out there AND at a price that would lure a potential buyer away from Springfield Armory. Tough to do, especially since the old school assemblers at their Hartford plant were retiring...People also from another world...people who had a deep sense of pride in their work...people who knew the pistols inside and out because of the 30-40 years of service with Colt. Mass-produced they were...Carelessly assembled they were NOT. Every level of production was painstaking...form the design room to the foundry to the machine shop to the final assembly and inspection/testing phase. Everybody was both careful and skilled. Most of them were left over from the WW2 era,
and were still affixed with the mindset of building pistols that were going to war. They had to work. This mindset stuck, and they built some very good pistols.

It was another time in another place. It won't likely return.

Cheers.

Tuner

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MaterDei
November 18, 2003, 06:41 PM
Nice post, tuner.

I was born that fine year so don't share your memories.

I wonder. What do you think young people today will be saying in 40 years about gun shows and how they got this or that for $x back in 2003? What guns today will be the equivalent of the 1911 in the future? Mosins? Enfields? CZs? Makarovs?

What will people be saying about the 1911 40 years hence?

Prost,

MaterDei

N3rday
November 18, 2003, 07:39 PM
The 1911 I think will live on simply vecause it is an American tradition and a reliable handgun.
I can see CZs becoming much more popular in the future, and I'm sure that there will be new kinds of autoloaders, but the 1911 and the Glock aren't goin anywhere for a while, especially with all the attention the 1911s get in magazines.
I swear, half if not more of the gun magazines i see in stores have some 1911 clone on the front! It ain't goin nowhere, or at least I hope it won't!

10mmshooter
November 18, 2003, 08:18 PM
I am only 23 years old, and my first pistol was a Glock. I went through the police academy, and trained with a Glock there. I went on the road for about a year, and carried a Glock in my duties.
After leaving the law enforcement profession...curiosity got the best of me. I had to have a 1911 style pistol. I quickly found a 10mm variant that caught my eye, and I dove right in.
I am now hooked, and am considering re-entering the law enforcement field. I now wish that I knew of a dept. in my area that permitted it's officers to carry a 1911. These pistols are absolutely a thing of beauty.
Growing up, I couldn't wait to get a Glock. They were the talk of the gun community, and the wave of the future at that time. Now, although I still like Glock's very much....I just can't help but side with the "old-timers" on the issue of the 1911.
Perhaps I am just one of many of the younger generation who truly appreciate a classic design. Then again, maybe it's just me....I feel the same way about classic automobiles too. Give me a 1911, and a Mustang with a carbeurated 351 Cleveland any day of the week, and I'll be happy!:)

Black Snowman
November 18, 2003, 09:06 PM
My 1st gun was not only the new Glock, but THE new UberGlock, the Glock 24P. Their first and only attempt to capture part of the IPSC market. I got it because I wanted a simple manual of arms, that new wonder caliber the .40, and something accurate since I was only going to be shooting at paper. What I got was a great gun that has served me well for over 7000 rounds.

Now I'm getting my first Government Model pattern gun, a Delta Elite, after renting a Kimber Stainless Target II at my local range. For a long time I thought the 1911 was over-hyped and when I got my Glock they didn't fit my hand and the grip safety felt wierd to me. Now I'm a little more experianced and I can really appreciate the good trigger the Kimber had and could see why a lot of people liked the gun.

I'm not a rabbid compeditor hating fan of the 1911 style pistols but I'm sure not one to bad mouth them. however I've already cought myself looking for "upgrades" to a gun I don't even have in my hand yet. The plethora of affordable accessories will surely be my downfall into 1911 obsession ;)

Old Fuff
November 18, 2003, 09:10 PM
Well the middle-60’s were very good, but the middle-later 50’s were even better. While Colt’s big pistol was well built the Python was made with care reserved for only the very best - and had a suggested retail price of $125.00. Of course at the time you could buy a well-equipped new car for $4,000.00 or less.

But you hit the nail on the head about the really big difference between then and now. The manufacturers could afford to make everything from machined forgings or tool-steel bar stock. That, and the fact they were carefully assembled, not just put-together. Exteriors were hand buffed to a high polish and attention was paid to small things that were important - like trigger pulls. And yes, if you told a buyer they would have to “break in” their new autoloader before it would function reliably they would look at you funny. Of course in those days everybody shot hardball because they’re wasn’t any other choice.

No, we aren’t likely to see those days again. They are past - gone with the wind. But the guns themselves aren’t gone, and some aren’t particularly expensive when compared to what new ones go for. As for myself, I’m always looking ……

BluesBear
November 18, 2003, 10:21 PM
In 1964 I was 9.

Dad started taking me to gun shows when I was 11. I bought my very own personal 1911A1 in 1970 for $30. It needed some TLC. Shortly there after I bought a WWII brown holster with GI pistol belt and 1942 mag pouch for $5.
Owning a S&W 1955 Target was my big dream.

It truely was another word and we were a different nation then.
I was glad I was there.
But I sure miss it.

sm
November 18, 2003, 10:42 PM
1911 Tuner, Good post-Thank You !

I'm a '55 model. In '61 an old "gunney" at the Nat'l Guard Armory ,where my Dad had 'drill', I shot my first 1911 . Singer made "Gummit model". I was six years old and I have been addicted ever since. I'd tag along for the weekend drills and "gunny" took me in under his guidance. I wasn't babsitted, I was taught. Too bad my own dad wouldn't do this much, eventually he quit doing any dad stuff and I was the man of the house.

My Uncle, oh my...he was a smith revolver and 1911 'nut'... he admitted the Colts sure did blue 'em well tho', even it the cyls went the 'wrong way'. ;)

Shotguns became interesting too. I sure was reminded of sights, smells, and memories in your post. Little brat , hanging around gunny's , an Uncle, and other elders...treated not like a kid, but a responsible young fella that was "their repsonsibilty" to pass on what was passed on to them.

Somewhere (I hope still) is a plain brown box, marked in gummit markings some unfired 45 ball ammo and some spent casings. Gunney just stuck it in a sack, said to keep my mouth shut, and lets see if the cook had any bananna pudding in the mess...with a wink we headed off...a six yr old just a bouncing and grinnin'...smellin' of a Singer gummit model, gun residue and scratching his ears from the wax ear plugs...

1911Tuner
November 19, 2003, 08:43 AM
Ahhh Fluff, I remember the 50's, and it was a grand time. Shot my first
1911 in '58...learned to field-strip it soon after. "Boy, if yer gonna shoot it,
yer gonna clean it." Detail stripping came soon after.

Boys had their own .22's, and nobody thought anything about it if they
went into the woods to pot a few squirrels after school. We could
shoot in the back yard, and the neighbors didn't call the sheriff in a
panic over "hearing gunfire"...Often as not, they'd show up with their own pistols and join in. If a deputy passed within hearing range, he might stop and burn a few too...and stay for supper. Matter of fact, the first .44 Special I fired was a deputy's service revolver. It was a nickel-plated
Smith 4-screw.

re'73...Betcha wish ya had that Singer now...seein' as how a correct,
decent example will fetch about 12 grand.

Any boy over the age of ten carried his Barlow knife everywhere he went,
even to school. Sometimes the teacher would borrow it. If we got in
trouble, the teacher would make us grab our ankles for three licks...
and serious offenses meant that the principal did the honors. When we
got home, the ol' man had already gotten the word, and another lickin'
was sure to come. We addressed policemen as sir, and adults were
Mr. Miss, or Mrs. Self esteem was earned, not granted as an entitlement.
We worked for our allowance, and we worked hard. Backtalk was dealt with immediately and harshly, and your next door neighbor was as likely
to bust your pants as your own parents...with their full support.

The Ten Commandments were displayed in the school's main entrance, and
we started the day with Daily Devotions...AND The Pledge of Allegiance.
Most kids said Grace over their cafeteria lunches..even though the food wasn't all that great sometimes...and we didn't have pizza or french fries
at school. Plate lunches were a quarter, and the food was hot.

Yeah. I miss those times.

Tuner

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