Need some 45 ACP data.


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dc.fireman
February 14, 2010, 06:09 PM
Hi all - I need some data from you guys regarding 45 acp loads.

I'm loading these for a Rock River Arms 1911A1 (5" barrel) and a Star Eibar Firestar with a 4" barrel. These are for target/plinking, and reliability is favored over the personal defense loads, or competition loads.

I have already loaded out the 250 Berry's 230gr. bullets I had, and now I have a case of 1000 Remington 230 gr. MC which I would like to use as a comparator. My components will be as follows:

Bullet: Remington 230 gr. MC (a jacketed RN)
Powder: IMR HiSkor 700X
Case: Remington pre-primed (with a 2 1/2 primer)

My dies are still set for 1.260" COL from the Berry's, which are loaded with 4.0 gr. of 700X.

After some searching thru three load books for data, I can't come up with something which matches all of my components, and I don't want to guess at a starting point.

The Lymans manual lists all of my components, except for the 230 gr. jacketed bullet, it has data for a LRN instead;

the Hornady manual lists for a 230 gr. FP bullet,

and the IMR site lists this:
230 GR. REM MC

DIA: .451"

COL: 1.260"
HiSkor 700-X 5.0 770
17,700 CUP

With the 5.0 as the MAX for 700X, and at nearly 18K CUP, I know tto reduce the load by 10% - but that's still 4.5 gr. of powder - which is above what my starting point was for the Berry's bullets.

I'd like to get your opinions on a decent starting point for this, and promise to post pics of my results when I'm through. Thanks for the help!

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RE-15
February 14, 2010, 06:22 PM
Sierra says start load 3.9 at 1.270 for 700x with a 230 RN. vel 700 fps
Max load 5.0 vel 850fps.
230 gr. RN bullets should all be very simular in profile

Walkalong
February 14, 2010, 06:28 PM
Start at 4.8 Grs 700X with those 230 Gr Berrys RN bullets, and work up to the velocity or recoil level and accuracy you are looking for. 4.8 wil be under 800 FPS.

RE-15
February 14, 2010, 08:57 PM
OP said he was out of the Berry bullets and trying fmj RN 230 gr now.

rfwobbly
February 14, 2010, 09:19 PM
Think through it. A jacketed bullet is going to be a little harder to push than a soft plated one of the same shape and weight. Therefore if you start with your old Berry load and OAL, you'll be in the basement of the jacketed load.

That logic shows that RE-15's answer is good. The pressure difference between 1.260 and 1.270 is going to be nill.

Make 5 at 3.8gr, five at 4.0gr, five at 4.2gr... You'll find a sweet spot.

Walkalong
February 14, 2010, 10:04 PM
OP said he was out of the Berry bullets and trying fmj RN 230 gr now.Agh, missed it. 4.8 Grs still. Will still be under 800 FPS.

Sunray
February 14, 2010, 10:57 PM
Cast and jacketed bullets do not use the same data. You're going to have to work up the load for the jacketed bullets anyway. OAL will be the same.
4.5 grains of 700X is the starting load for a cast or plated bullet. 4.4 to 4.9 of 700X for a 230 grain jacketed bullet.

ArchAngelCD
February 15, 2010, 01:43 AM
dc.fireman,
You can get current load data for all Hodgdon/ Winchester/ IMR powders from the Hodgdon Load Data site (http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp). The data they list for the .45 Auto and 700X is 4.4gr to 4.9gr with a 230gr FMJ bullet and 4.5gr to 5.0gr using a 230gr LRN bullet.

I think using 4.0gr 700X is too low a starting point and might cause a problem at that low a pressure especially since you are using an OAL of 1.260" and the Hodgdon data uses a OAL of 1.200". Your pressures will be even lower using that OAL compared to what Hodgdon used. I strongly suggest you bring the starting charge up to 4.5gr which is still lower than the Hodgdon starting load because of the OAL you are using.

Walkalong
February 15, 2010, 08:14 AM
Speer #13 goes to 5.1 Grs 700X with a 230 Gr jacketed bullet.

dc.fireman
February 15, 2010, 01:37 PM
Muchas Gracias!

I was concerned that because one of my components had changed, there'd be some drastic differences in pressures. I've kinda gotten used to the way my features are arranged on my face, and don't want any 'surprises'...

rcmodel
February 15, 2010, 01:41 PM
The Remington 230 gr. FMC-RN is a GI profile bullet.

OAL of a GI mil-spec load is 1.266" - 1.271".

Try that.

rc

dc.fireman
February 15, 2010, 03:57 PM
rc -

I noticed that others had mentioned in various posts, that they most often used 1.265" for their favorite COL. Because I have a huge supply of Remington components, and I was trying to essentially replicate their load (which always fires well in both of my guns), I used two boxes of their factory ammunition, and my micrometer - they were all overwhelmingly 1.260", with only 2-3 exceptions out of 100 rounds checked (and believe me that was tedious...).

My Lyman manual lists 1.275" as the length to use for the components I have - whereas the Hornady manual I have lists 1.275" as the MAX COL.

I had the recommendation from Bud Watson, who is the Berry's plated bullets technical specialist give me the starting and max loads for the Berry's bullets I've already used.

What I couldn't seem to find is any info on the Remington MC bullets, and so the dilema, and then the ensuing posts looking for info. Thanks again for all the replies! As soon as it stops snowing, I'm headed to the range for some testing. I'll put some pics up then...

-tc

ArchAngelCD
February 16, 2010, 01:19 AM
I was concerned that because one of my components had changed, there'd be some drastic differences in pressures. I've kinda gotten used to the way my features are arranged on my face, and don't want any 'surprises'...
dc.fireman,
I'm guessing from that post you reload shotgun shells. Unlike shotshell reloading changing components, especially in handgun ammo isn't all that critical. Unlike with shotshells changing brands of primers will give you little if any variation in pressure or velocity. For the most part, a Large Pistol Primer is just that and are interchangeable in all loads but those which are at the very limits of the charge range. Same goes for Small Pistol Primers and so on. Components are a little more touchy when loading rifle rounds but still nowhere near as critical as when loading shotshells.

As for your concerns with COL, there is very little difference between 1.265" and 1.260" for the .45 Auto, again, as long as you aren't bumping right up against the MAX charge. If you are attempting to replicate Remington ammo use the COL of the factory ammo but back off the charge slightly and build the charge until you achieve the same velocity as the factory ammo. (assuming that can be done without going over the max recommended powder charge before you achieve the desired velocity)

Don't forget the range report when you do your tests. Good luck with the ammo replication...

dc.fireman
April 18, 2010, 01:43 PM
Okie Dokie! I got them fired off! Tonight, I'll scan the targets in from the range, with my notes, and post them here. Surprises abound! Can't wait to show them to you all...

-tc

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