[ACP]

Dear G17 owners (and BHP owners): I might soon be in the market for a hi-cap 9mm. Is it your experience that the Glock 17 is as advertised, the most tortured and most reliable Glock? Is it the most reliable 9mm? What about the Browning Hi Power, for comparison? I've had a few G19's (2nd generation) and had mixed luck with them. Any input is appreciated.

[N3rday]

The glock is similar to the AK: its simple, reliable, and you probably could go a year without cleaning it and come out shooting. Its also quite waterproof, and I certainly would not be scared to jump in a pool with one, assuming the rounds are jacketed.

Its just an all around good gun. Its ugly and blocky though, and you can't customize it that much. Its friggin durable as hell, the tenifer does a good job. feel free to sharpen your knives on it :).

It isn't supremely accurate, but it certainly exceeds what is needed for a service pistol in the accuracy department. I hear ppl have trouble with the grip, but if the shoes fits, wear it!

[Oleg Volk]

Personal preference. G17 was my first handgun,didn't like it muchback then. Now have two and a .22 conversion kit. Fits me better than a BHP. YMMV.

[bad_dad_brad]

I have a G17 and a G19. They are pretty much the same gun, the G19 being a little shorter in the barrel and grip. Both of mine are generation 3 Glocks.

I don't shoot my G19 much. It is one of my home defense weapons. It has never failed me.

My G17 is my target, plinking, and just plain fun 9mm. Shot a lot more than the G19, I have never had any problems with it. It really is a joy to shoot. For some reason, I like the G17 trigger over the G19. It seems better for some reason, and it does not have those "target trigger BATF import point reducing" grooves like on the G19. Not fond of those at all.

I suspect, since the G17 was the first Glock, and was designed around the 9mm cartridge, that it probably is the more reliable gun. The recoil springs are different in the G17 than the G19, stiffer in the G19 to compensate for the lighter slide of the G19. The recoil and action of the slide seems slicker on the G17. My guess is, because of these subtle differences, the G17 is overall the more reliable weapon with 9mm loads.

One more observation. The G17 seems to have little felt recoil. Like shooting a .22 almost - very mild. Follow up shots on the G17 are amazingly quick. The G19 is a bit more brisk in recoil.

All these opinions are subjective, but if I had to choose between the two, I would go with the G17.

Regarding hi-cap mags, of course, with either the G17 or G19 you will have to shop for 17 and 15 round pre-ban magazines. G17 hi-cap magazines are more available than the G19 15 rounders. Hopefully the AW ban will expire in the near future and this will be mox-nix.

[NevadaPistolero]

The preban glock mags cost an arm and a leg...its ridiculus. Go with the Springfield XD in 9mm if its got to be 9mm. They hold 10+1, alot more safe than the glock also. You can use XD .40 cal mags and up the capacity by 3 or 4 rounds. Guess you can tell Im a little prejudiced for the XD. Ive owned glocks but in my estimation the XD is a better gun, in a few years it will equal or pass glock sales in the US. The chambers in the XD are also fully supported.

[TheeBadOne]

alot more safe than the glock also
Meh. How so? (don't tell me: "It doesn't have a manuel safety") Don't put your finger on the trigger until you're ready to shoot, don't cover anything with the barrel you don't want to shoot. The Glock is a fine firearm and as with any firearm you must obey basic firearm safety.

[Dave Markowitz]

Both the G17 are excellent pistols. However, they feel very different in the hand and one may fit you much better than the other (or perhaps not). For example, the G17's grip angle causes it to point high for me. In contrast, the BHP fits me as if it was designed specifically for me.

Another thing to consider is the different type of action. Glock's action is akin to a double-action only, whereas the BHP is single-action.

Good, affordable standard capacity mags are more easily available for the High Power. E.g., CDNN carries 15 and 17 round military mags for under $20 each. The only high quality > 10 round mags that are cheaper are for FALs, G3s, CETMEs, and AKs.

[Black Snowman]

OK you two that's enough, we've already done the safety thing to death. Everyone knows :)

OK I don't have any experiance with the G17 but I do have a G24 which is in almost no way similar other than being a Glock ;)

It's a long slide, ported, and a .40 S&W. For a serviceable tool wielded by a competent user they are excellent. For punching holes in paper they're adequate unless you get one of the long-slide versions, and they all the one's I've ever seen needed some polishing of the connectors to smooth up the trigger which I managed to accomplish on mine without screwing anything up.

I've never had the pleasure of shooting a Hi-Power but they just don't fit me. I have larger hands and a longer trigger reach so the CZs fit me much better. The HP and the CZs are some of my favorite gun designs and definately at the top of my list for "excellent guns I don't own yet".

Either one would be a great EDC CCW but for a range gun I'd tend to prefer the Hi-Power.

I don't CCW, and I don't own either, so, you've been warned ;)

[JohnKSa]

The preban glock mags cost an arm and a leg...its ridiculus. Go with the Springfield XD in 9mm if its got to be 9mm. They hold 10+1,
Uhh...

So, because you can buy a 10 round XD mag for less than a preban Glock mag that's a selling point for the XD?

Perhaps you should price 10 round Glock mags--if you keep your eyes open you can often find them for around $15. AND, if you DO want more than 10 rounds, you can have it with a Glock preban mag.

Getting back to the original question--the 9mm Glocks seem to be the best of the bunch. They are pretty heavily over-engineered, based on the pressure specs Glock quotes. The bigger caliber Glocks don't seem to have the same margin of over-engineering and as a result, they tend to have a higher incidence of problems and a shorter service life.

[LeonCarr]

IMNSHO the Glock 17 is the most trouble-free Glock. I have three of them, with 21,500 rounds shot through them, with no malfunctions.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[HIPOWER]

I am a big fan of the BHP (as my user-name suggests) and I currently own two of them. They are fantastic.

That said, my G17 has never let me down....ever. The BHP has class, but if I had to take only one pistol into harm's way it would be my Glock 17 with 17+1 rounds of 124 grain +P Gold Dots.

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. While I personally prefer the Hi Power, the Glock 17 was pretty common on the firearms range when I was a police firearms instructor. Those that I saw were almost always stone cold reliable and worked. Either is a good pistol and I think the decision will be made by which feels best to you. How they look influence some folks while others may make their decision based on whether or not they're comfortable with Condition One carry for the Hi Power or if they like/dislike the trigger pull on the Glock.

Either pistol would serve well.

Current Mk III pistols that I've shot have been both accurate and reliable out of the box as well. They also suffer from less than stellar trigger pulls out of the box, but there are exceptions. The Hi Power will come with a magazine disconnect while the Glock does not. The Glock is lighter should concealed carry be in your parameters.

At extended ranges, I find the Hi Power easier to get hits with. Others may feel just the opposite. Both of these pistols tend to have a dedicated following and in my experience, both are very usuable, very dependable sidearms.

I'd go with the one I liked best.

Best and good luck.

[Devonai]

My Glock 17 is just as reliable as every other pistol I've ever owned, but it gets the nod for capacity and light weight. I really like being able to carry 18 rounds in such a lightweight package. Most of the time I don't feel the need to carry a spare magazine, with that many rounds already in the weapon.

I might add that the Glock is the least time consuming to clean of all pistols I've owned. Combining Winchester's WinClean ammo with a Glock is a receipe for a very easy cleaning session.

[Nightcrawler]

The Glock 17 is an excellent pistol for your nameless, nearly-anonymous minions and henchmen, too. Easy to shoot, easy to use, plenty of rounds (since most henchmen can't shoot worth snuff.)

[Tamara]

It's a very durable, very reliable, generic, ugly 9mm service pistol that has a mediocre trigger and lots of holsters & accessories available and is easily replaced if lost or broken. If this is what you're looking for, the line forms at your local gun shop counter.

[Nightcrawler]

So like Tam said, it's good for your henchmen. You have henchmen, I trust, Tamara, being a moderator and everything?

I've got a couple. I'm just starting out, though; I just switched my major from Political Science to Super Villainry, and have a ways to go. (Fortunately, many of the classes were the same, so it didn't really set me back.)

[Tamara]

I've always thought the discerning question is "Do you see yourself as a gun buff or a self-defense-tool user? If the latter, then the Glock is probably the gun for you." :cool:

[Sven]

Glock. So Reliable, It's Boring.

Glock 17 was my first firearm, and if I only had to have one reasonably priced semi-auto for self defense, I would choose it again without hesitation. Never has let me down.

Dirty, clean, whatever.... it just RUNS. I put Trijicon night sights on and keep it stoked with +P defense loads, which it can digest all day long. Where legal, you can easily have 17 + 1 rounds on tap... with a spare mag, you are prepared for most anything short of a riot.

If you were to have a list of the top 10 classic autoloaders, I'm sure Glock 17 would be on most everyone's list. If you want a more collectable or personalizable gun, look elsewhere, but if you want reliabiliy with a capital R, you've found the right piece.

[clubsoda22]

about those XD mags, putting 9mm in the 40 mags is legal, but inserting it into the gun isn't. i'd watch out with that.

[Nightcrawler]

Just like to add, I've got a couple henchmen, not a couple Glocks.

Reliable or no, I think Glocks are icky.

[Tamara]

Reliable or no, I think Glocks are icky.

"Icky? Yes or No."

Hmmm.... Never thought about that one as a major criteria for defensive firearms.

If I found out that painting my gun pink and hanging a Barney doll from the muzzle would reliably halve my splits and double my A-zone hits, I'd be off to the tempura & stuffed animals aisles at Toys 'R' Us... :uhoh:

[Longbow]

clubsoda22,
How's that become illegal?
I think it only becomes illegal if the magazine is modified, and it doesn't fit/function anymore to the gun its intended for. if no mods are done, then it should be legal. Unless there its a geographic thing....

[Nightcrawler]

Hmmm.... Never thought about that one as a major criteria for defensive firearms.

Well sure. But then, there are non-icky guns that work just as well, so I'll buy those.

However, as you said, if the person is just looking for a reliable shooter and isn't interested in customization, blue steel, or aesthetics, a Glock is just about perfect. (Though some new shooters might be uncomfortable with a pistol with that light of a trigger pull and no manual safety; trigger finger discipline becomes especially important with this type of handgun.)

[Graystar]

My 17 never fails to fire. It's the one I depend on. and it's accurate.

That said, you can have trouble with any gun. If you had trouble with a 19 you might have trouble with a 17. Depends on what you feed it and how you maintain it.

[Longbow]

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder...my Glock works beautifully all the time! :)

[Spieler]

A G17 was my first handgun and seventeen years later it is still a keeper! It has digested untold thousands of rounds and keeps on ticking. I don't have a lot of experience with the 2nd and 3rd generation guns, but finger grooves are not really my cup of tea. I have also had an Argentine P35 copy for a number of years, and although it is a great gun, I find that it is a bit chunkier and certainly heavier than the G17 and holds fewer rounds. The P35 is a stay at home and range gun only whereas the G17 is an almost daily CCW gun for me. Every gun has it's detractors, and the Glocks maybe more than others, but you have to go with what works for you. Everything else is just a bunch of hype.

[Oracle]

If you're looking for a gun that works, every time, and that you don't need to modify to make it work, and that is incredibly durable, then the G17 is for you. I love my G17, it goes bang every time. If I had to choose a pistol to take into harm's way, it would be the Glock 17.

So, yes, it's all that. And a bag of chips :).

[Black Snowman]

I have a big fancy Glock with several add-ons so it may not be pretty, but I think it looks cool, or as the current parlance seems to go "wicked sick".

[keederdag]

I think that the G-17 is so reliable, accurate and robust that it is boreing. I own two G-26's one 36 and One 17. I shot competitively with a local PD for a while and got a squib in the 17, which went unnoticed until cleaning time. I won the match, shot at leaste 500 rds that day, and had no probs. Theyre service sucks, but Ive never heard of any manufacturer related problems so I doubt it will ever come up. I dont shoot mine much anymore, They really do kinda bore me.:D

[Zak Smith]

The BHP is certainly proven by history. The BHP is also way smaller than a Glock 17.

-z

[keederdag]

I own a couple of P-35's as well. I dont think the two pistols can really be compared. I acctually carry the BHP, but if I only had one gun, I would have to pick the Glock 17.:)

[LeonCarr]

I like icky, when its a Glock :).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[bad_dad_brad]

I have to agree, that a pistol or revolver for art's sake, can favour any number of elegant guns. I do so love the shine and polish of blue. I am both a gun buff, and a user of practical everyday tools.

But I think the original thread starter was all about the BHP and comparisons to the G19 with vis-a-vis . . . is a G17 better than a BHP or G19?

First off, the G17, for a combat pistol is a bit better than a G19. Nobody could argue with that. The G17 was designed as the ultimate NATO 9mm sidearm. The G19 is a reduced size clone of the G17 and a such will suffer for the compromise.

Well what about the SA only BHP? This pistol, although blued and beautiful, is not even in the same league as a practical sidearm as is the G17. It is old fashioned SA. It has a gritty trigger. It holds 13 rounds compared to 17. It has that hammer thing going. Striker fired pistols are really so much more practical. And even though the BHP is perhaps slimmer than a G17, not really by all that much.

There is practical, and then there is art. Let us not confuse the two. A Glock is a tool. Nothing pretty about her. I would just die to own a beautiful deep blue BHP Capitan with solid walnut stocks, but just because she is pretty. The Glocks have an inner beauty in honest ever day practicality that is hard to argue with.

[have2rotties]

In the past I have owned

2 G-17's . 9mm - 0 malfunctions.
1 G-21 .45 ACP - 0 malfunctions.

I currently own a

G-34 9mm - 1 stovepipe when using reloads ( found the bullet wasn't seated all the way) last time I used someone elses reloaded ammo.
G-19 9mm - 0 malfunctions
g-26 9mm - 0 malfunctions

I have owned other autos in the past Ruger P series and 1911 variants. None of them were as dead nuts reliable as the Glocks. For a defense weapon. I will have nothing else. My G-19 is my carry gun fitted with mep night sights pre ban 15 rnd mag and an extended mag release. The G-34 is what I use when I shoot steel target matches. I shoot in a stock gun class so the few factory Glock upgrades that it came with work well for me. As for the G-26.... It's a little pocket rocket that will take my 19 rnd mags if needed...

Good luck in your search,
Jason

[Gerald McDonald]

Had a 17 and a 34, both great guns, like'ed the 34 more than the 17. Have a couple of Hi Powers, still have a couple of hi powers. The HP's just seem to fit me better but I wouldnt shy away from Glocks but the HP's has a lot more class and mine have been just as reliable as the Glocks. I would have no problem carring either in harms way.

[WonderNine]

If you want to get a G17 make sure it points well for you. They don't point worth a damn for me.

[Oracle]

WonderNine,

That does seem to be the case. Usually, if Glocks point well for you, 1911's don't, and if 1911's point well for you, Glocks don't.

I'd recommend trying out any gun before you buy it, though.

[unitman]

I shot two different Glock 17s that were range rental guns just to see what all the hype was about. None of them were particularly clean and I used range reload ammo. To my GREAT suprise, both Glocks were amazingly accurate and reliable for the 100 rounds I put through them. I had read some Glock bashing and my expectations were low, but boy, was I surprised. Each beater Glock was more accurate for me than the 9mm USP9, Beretta 92FS, SIG P226, CZ75, my BHP, and the much vaunted HKp7 that I had tried. I must add, however, that by the time I got to the G17s, I had accumulated experience that I did not have while shooting some of the others. Now I am debating whether to buy a G17 or a Colt NRM Government Model. I like them both a lot. The G17s felt somewhat blocky in my hand at first, but now I think they fit well based on the results I got. They even point well for me. I did not do as well with a G19 that I tried, which had a very stiff (new or NY?) trigger.

[kalibear45]

But I pick the Hi-Power just because its a distant cousin of the 1911 :D

[Preacherman]

I've always thought the discerning question is "Do you see yourself as a gun buff or a self-defense-tool user? If the latter, then the Glock is probably the gun for you." I think Tamara put it very well. I am not a "gun buff" in the sense of wanting a large collection of historically interesting or cosmetically attractive guns (although I have some pretty nice milsurps, thank you very much! :D ). I've seen too much of war and civil unrest and crime to want my "practical" battery to be anything but practical, defense-oriented, reliable, simple, and effective. I own seven Glocks in various calibers, and they're my carry pistol of choice (except in .45 ACP, where I find the Glock grips too fat, and have moved to the SIG P220). 'Nuff said.

[Gordon]

P-35 is the Phrench cousin of the 1911! What was the gun Saddam surrendered? I bought a Glock 17 as soon as they were available 0 malfs, my PHD. son has it now hidden away in luggage on some research vessel somewhere in North Pacifac. I found a Blade Tech Kydex holster to be ideal for CCW with it. I still have a Glock27 (but my CHP son is eyeing it) it does not conceal well for me except in a jacket pocket, and still feels blocky. I have not had any problems with that gun , but shootability is not as smooth or rapid like a 17. My older T series BHP sure seems hard to get a decent 13 round mag for! Talk about hens teeth! While I've not modified the feed ramp it feeds ball and 147grain Police ammo ok(with my one factory mag), so at least it is a useful gun,even though I can't get over the long trigger reset and not dropping the mags free. I just keep it because it matches my Baby Browning and my 1910 Browning (circa 1966) which is another less than stellar design too.The machine work IS beautiful on an old Hi Power (although they took off too much metal IMHO) and worth having for that alone. :cool:

[care-less]

I guess I will sum up my opinion by saying that I Love my Hi-Powers, so much so that I don't like to subject them to being scratched up etc. So, I usually carry my Glocks, or XD's. I don't care if I scratch up these ugly pistols; but I am also willing to risk my life to them; they are extremely reliable.

[marley]

I own both a G17 and a BHP. They are both great and would not trade them for the world. I don't often carry the 17 but I do use it in IDPA. I carry the BHP about a fifth of the time and use it for IDPA. Buy both you like them. They each have some great qualitys. I have a g26 that gets carried the most. the g19 might be a good choice if only one is an option. Patrick

[BHPshooter]

I have 2 Hi Powers, and I love them. They just feel right for me. That should probably be your main determining factor, since both are usually incredibly reliable. I'm not a huge fan of Glocks, but if I were to ever get one, it would be a 17. But I'd have to get over the P35 first, and well... I don't see that happening anytime soon. :D

Wes

[TonyB]

I like the fact that you can run +p's thru the G17 all day long...not sure if you can say the same about a Hipower.......I'm left handed and the safety on the hipower isn't reachable...I like the simplicity of the glock...as some one on this board has called it..it's a reliable bullet launcher...if you want art,get a hipower...if you want a 100% bullet launcher that needs little care and can shoot 9mm+p....go with the Glock....IMO:cool:

[Kodiak AK]

I would say the G-17 is the most reliable Glock.That said if you get one with the platic sights , throw the sights away and replace them right off the bat . I have had two out of three g-17's lose that front sight in the middle of shooting at the range .

[Sean Smith]

Glocks work well. But they aren't the infallible neverbreakums that people make them out to be. Having owned lots of them, and CZ and Sigs and Colts and Kimbers and so forth besides, they are about middle of the road in terms of reliability and durability in my experience. I don't plan on owning another one ever again myself, but they do work generally.

[ACP]

I salute you all, THR members! Thanks for the input.

[JohnKSa]

I consider myself a gun buff.

But there are times when I want something that will ALWAYS go bang, and more importantly won't rust if I sweat on it or make me cry if it gets wet, scraped, dropped, dinged or banged against something.

My NICE guns tend to stay in the safe except when they go into a nice protective case for a trip to the range...

OR, you could say it another way.

Just because you are a car buff doesn't mean that ALL of your cars have to be Porsches or Ferraris. Sometimes it's VERY handy to have an ugly but reliable pickup truck on hand.

[Absolut]

the XD is everything the glock wants to be...and cheaper on top of that :)

[JohnKSa]

the XD is everything the glock wants to be...and cheaper on top of that
Hmmm...

I've never known a Glock that wanted to be less drop safe, 10+1 only, less accurate, have unnecessary parts, or be made in Croatia.

But then again, maybe you communicate better with Glocks than I do... ;)

[355sigfan]

The preban glock mags cost an arm and a leg...its ridiculus. Go with the Springfield XD in 9mm if its got to be 9mm. They hold 10+1, alot more safe than the glock also.

END
The mags are expensive. But its just as safe as the xd and the trigger is far better. The XD has a long reset like the BHP and this inhibits fast and accurate shooting.
Pat

[355sigfan]

Well what about the SA only BHP? This pistol, although blued and beautiful, is not even in the same league as a practical sidearm as is the G17. It is old fashioned SA. It has a gritty trigger. It holds 13 rounds compared to 17. It has that hammer thing going. Striker fired pistols are really so much more practical. And even though the BHP is perhaps slimmer than a G17, not really by all that much.
END

Well there is nothing wrong with hammer fired guns or SA actions. The 1911 still rules the roost as the easiest gun to shoot fast and well. Thats why its the winner in every from of handgun competition. Its also the gun professionals chose like the FBI and LAPD SWAT Teams. So being single action is not a strike against the BHP. The trigger is however. Its heavier than the 1911 and its reset is a lot longer. The 17 is a fatter gun than the bhp.
Pat

[Zach S]

Usually, if Glocks point well for you, 1911's don't, and if 1911's point well for you, Glocks don't. I've noticed this too. The G17 points high, well, really high for me. I shoot 1911s almost exclusively.

As for reliabilty concerns with the G17, from what I understand, if it doesnt work its a fluke. Havent fired one in a while, hell, havent even held one, I rent a G19 on occasion though, it doest point as high as it used too, guess I'm slowly getting used to it.

If I ever got a 9mm glock, I'd probably go with the G19 for concealability.

I hate the 3rg generation frames (finger grooves).

[artherd]

The G34 (which is a 17 with a 3/4" longer slide & barrel, all other parts interchange) and the 1911 are both the most 'natural' guns for me to point and use.

The G34 really has the 1911 beat stone cold. It's a better gun, that shoots faster, points the same, and holts upteen times the ammunition. And I am a 1911 fan.

I can fire the G34, accurately, as fast as I can pull the trigger. It's back on target that fast, and the trigger (34s aned 35s get 3.5lb stock from factory) is light enough to not effect POI, but heavy enough for carry.)


I guess you could say I like it.

[Frenchy]

The Glock defines the term "Practical", IMO.
If the gun handles & points naturally for you...Then get it!
It didn't for me, which is why I carry a HS.

[Penforhire]

I'm thinking the G17 would be "all that" if it were at least 20% less expensive.

[Frenchy]

I'm thinking the G17 would be "all that" if it were at least 20% less expensive.

I hear reference to the cost of Glock quite a bit, but if you compare it to the guns it is most associated with (HK, Sig, S&W, etc.), it would seem to be a value. Granted, the XD costs somewhat less, but not much.