[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

I've become VERY enamoured with these as of late, since I injured my shoulder (and now that BOTH shoulders are going bad on me :( ) and I starting looking at crossbows, and *especially* since I shot one of these crazy things yesterday. Very fast, very smooth, quiet, no recoil. Tacticool. I think it's gonna be a must-have after I get the doctor's note allowing this for archery season.


http://www.tac15.com/ :eek: :D

http://www.pse-archery.com/cat.php?k=55444


What say you?

Leaning towards the Tac-10; slightly smaller and lighter; still delivering 350 fps from these 425 gr arrows - plenty (more than enough) power, and a little less wear and tear on the unit than the full-blown one.

[TedP]

Tactical Assault Crossbow. Look at that thing. It looks like it has an AR lower. The crank is a nice touch.

Edit: Nice, it IS an AR lower!

[desidog]

That's a big premium to pay just to use your AR-lower.

Why not get a dedicated, full-time crossbow; and a couple hundred rounds of .223 for the same price?

[~z]

$1,300-1,600 for 1/2 a crossbow...you gotta have a hell of a money tree Doc.
~z

[kanook]

Wait till you have to carry it around in the woods. They are very front heavy from my handeling with them.

Try out every one that you can get your hands on as they all feel very different.

Every thing that is attached to the bow is that much more weight that your shoulders have to carry every step on the way to and from the stand.

[chevyforlife21]

whyyyyyyy?

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Why not get a dedicated, full-time crossbow?

whyyyyyyy?

Good question.

Because:

1. It's lighter than similar crossbows
2. It's much narrower/smaller than similar crossbows
3. I already have a lower, so the price IS the total price; Plus I have the grip and trigger I WANT on my lower already; Plus I'm familiar with the ergos & manual of arms.
4. It's the most powerful crossbow in the world, bar none
5. It uses regular length arrows, not short stubby bolts, so it has a higher sectional density for better penetration. This thing could take down an elephant or cape buff!
6. It has an upper P-rail and 2 lower P-rails for accessories (i.e. it's 'tacticool' and just plain fun)
7. It appears to be very well made, and is backed by an excellent bow-maker (PSE), not some fly-by-night company
8. It has great features like the dampeners, whisker biscuit, turncrank which both cocks it OR allows you to uncock without firing, etc. Oh, and don't forget that the crank has a longer radius than the Ten Points, I do believe, so it's less cocking effort.
9. It's actually less money or about the same than other full tilt crossbows with similar features (like the crank), I think, ain't it? How much are the highest end Ten Points, etc.?
10. It's very smooth, very quiet, very fast, and extends my range to well over 70 yards

Is ten enough, or you need more? :D

$1,300-1,600 for 1/2 a crossbow

Nah, that'd be $1,300 for 1/2 a crossbow, or $1,600 for a whole crossbow (or $0 extra if you have an AR).

Every thing that is attached to the bow is that much more weight that your shoulders have to carry every step on the way to and from the stand.

Well, the whole thing (the one I want, the Tac-10) is a whopping 7.8 lbs, quite a bit less than my DPMS LR260L that I trudged for miles through the woods with, without problems back in December, and not much more than most other hunting rifles. Granted, you have to add weight of optics, quiver, and arrows, but it ain't THAT heavy.

[grubbylabs]

Wow I am a die hard archery guy and PSE makes really nice stuff. That Is the coolest thing I think I have seen. Bummer on the shoulders but I am having a hard time felling bad for you if your gonna be hunting with that thing.

Not only that but how many times can you shoot a 223 round? Oh ya once, how many times can you shoot the same arrow, over and over again(unless you shoot your arrow with another arrow).

Plus you get to hunt in Archery season, the best time of year to be out in the woods.

OH ya and who gives a crap what any one else thinks? The darn thing is way beyond cool.

Plus its not really the weight of the bow a archer has problems with after a life of shooting its the weight of the draw and holding that weight.

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Yeah, forgot to mention, regarding the cost:

Rifle season for deer runs for about 16 days here; maybe 22 days tops with special bonus doe hunts.

Archery season for deer & turkeys runs for 3.5 months, or about 106 days, almost 5 times as much hunting time.**

I have lots of centerfire rifles, suitable for hunting those 16 days, but only 3 bows and no crossbows for the 106 days. You can make that zero bows and zero crossbows if my shoulders continue to decline and I have to sell off the two compounds and one recurve I have.

Some of my centerfire rifles I've paid near close to $2,000 for, and this crossbow is much less than that, for far far more use. Oh yeah, the price is justified and then some, especially in light of the fact that your hunting success rate for archery can go up a bit, not having to try to draw while the game is looking away and getting busted. :)


**Even being very very realistic, suppose that during that 106 days, say that I'm gun hunting whenever gun hunting is allowed (22 days), and ML hunting when ML hunting is allowed (9 days). Further suppose that I'm a wuss and don't hunt the first 2 weeks of archery season because it's too hot, that's 14 more days not hunted with archery equipment. But that STILL leaves 61 days to hunt with a bow, almost 7 TIMES the amount of huntable time than ML season (and I have multiple MLs), and 2.77 TIMES the amount of huntable time than the 3 gun seasons combined (and I have many centerfire rifles).

[interlock]

i would love to bow hunt, we cant do it here... it is illegal

[kanook]

Plus its not really the weight of the bow a archer has problems with after a life of shooting its the weight of the draw and holding that weight. My left shoulder needs to be replaced and my right shoulder needs exploritory surgery so the weight of the bow means everything to me (heck, a long walk makes my shoulders hurt do to swinging motion)and the crossbow, well I have my wife draw (charge, cock) it for me.

My rifle is only around 6.5 pounds so my crossbow being 8.3 was a big difference. And my shoulders are the main reason on why I'm going full throttle on handgun hunting now.

[kanook]

www.drawloc.com might be a good choice for you also. I can't hold my arms out weighted for a period of time. If you still can this would be a great choice.

[shaggy430]

I saw these things in a magazine one day and I thought "what a stupid gimmick." I think I would cackle if I saw someone in the woods with one. No offense.

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Effective is as effective does, shaggy. No offense taken, but let me ask you a couple questions....

First, do you even hunt with a crossbow? If not, is it even legal where you live? Would you hunt with an AR15 or AR10 style rifle? If not, why not?

Here's a Ten Point Phanton-- a well made crossbow, to be sure -- But this item 'only' costs $800 MORE than the Tac-15, is wider, and heavier, and has fewer advanced features:

http://www.bigedgesports.com/product.asp?pid=2181548&rf=gbase


Is that a gimmick too? If so, then I'd say that you just don't like quality crossbows for some reason. If that's not a gimmick, then exactly how is the PSE, which is better for less money, somehow "gimmicky"? To me, gimmicky means not worth a squirt of warm urine in actual utility -- this is the polar opposite of that definition -- a well-made, extremely effective bow, legal for hunting in many places. I would say, reserve judgment until you HANDLE and SHOOT one like I did.

I think I would cackle if I saw someone in the woods with one.

Oh, you'll be cacklin' all right - watching me grunt, strain, and contort while pulling my heavy buck in to camp, while you are going back out again - that ought to do it to produce a cackle from most people! :p

[kanook]

Dr. Tad;

Keep in mind that people are going to have different ideas of what's a gimmick and what isn't. Of what is proper and what is wrong.

I use a recoil reducing muzzle break on my rifle. I hunt with a AR15 in 6.8spc because it's light and recoil is almost not there.

I use a crossbow because I can't draw a regular bow

I use a Knoxx stock because it helps tieh recoil (it's getting to where I might give up shotgunning.

I am 41 this year, I'm 5'10" and 230lbs. I am not a small but not a large person. To look at me you wouldn't know that I'm disabled.

Let the naysayers wait there turn, I hope that nobody gets to where I am, but there are people like me (and you) that refuse to sit and do nothing so that is why all the goodies.

[CoRoMo]

Mounting the M203 on the rail is a nice touch.:evil:

[shaggy430]

First, do you even hunt with a crossbow?

No, recurve and compound. To each his own, though.

If not, is it even legal where you live?

Yes, I just choose not to. I also shoot a lot of 3D tournament archery with both bows.

Would you hunt with an AR15 or AR10 style rifle? If not, why not?

Yes, I predator hunt with an DPMS Sportical with a scope.

Tad, I see that there would be a market for the AR15 crossbow, but it is just not for me. It just looks cumbersome to me. But like I said, to each his own. Buy one, hunt with it and tell us how it works. Hopefully it will work well for you.

[Odd Job]

If I had to spend a lot of money on a powerful crossbow, I would make sure I get one with a full length track. OP should check Crossbow Nation forums, plenty of info there on crossbows, hunting and reviews:

http://www.crossbownation.com/community/index.php?

Note that one or two people on that forum don't like the PSE purely because it reminds them of a rifle. You'll have to ignore that sentiment (probably some vertical bow hunters feel the same way about crossbows). To me the AR lower was a novel approach to the design of the crossbow. The issue I have is that the crossbow doesn't have a full-contact track.
If I had the money and space I would collect crossbows. I want a Scorpyd and a Twinbow, interesting designs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRyXv2J3Jrw

http://www.scorpyd.com/

[CoRoMo]

Okay, what about this...

Say it is illegal to hunt in archery season with a firearm, but legal to use a crossbow. This is sometimes the case anyhow.
The AR lower is technically a gun. Could the wrong game warden make you have a very bad day when he finds you hunting with one of these?

Just a thought that came to me.

[kanook]

Kinda funny you bring that up.

I have a 50 cal BP barrel for my Mossberg shotgun, I get questioned.

I hunt with a 16" barreled upper on my AR "PISTOL" marked lower that will never see a stock, I get questioned.

I hunt with a crossbow during archery season (illegal without permit), I get questioned. (I'm disabled)

The PSE upper makes it a crossbow and you can bet it'll get a ton of looks but, it is definately a crossbow (I'd still get questioned)

[Odd Job]

If you really like questions, pitch up with an Airrow.
An archery barrel for a 10/22 ;)

http://www.swivelmachine.com/html/rimfire.htm

[kanook]

Been looking at those. Only problem is they use a blank. Although, A fool and his money are soon parted.

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Say it is illegal to hunt in archery season with a firearm, but legal to use a crossbow. This is sometimes the case anyhow.
The AR lower is technically a gun. Could the wrong game warden make you have a very bad day when he finds you hunting with one of these?

Interesting thought, but I think the wardens can exercise common sense and look at something that uses no barrel, no powder, no primer, no case, and no bullet, but does have a bow and an arrow on it, as a crossbow and not a "gun". Could they technically charge you if they were a-holes? Sure they could. Are they going to? No, not around here - our wardens are for lack of a better word, "cool" - they can and do apply common sense. That's like expelling the 6 year old with a miniature toy gun out of school for bringing a "gun" - thankfully game wardens have more sense than school administrators - at least in this state.

It just looks cumbersome to me.

Alright, so we've identified "looking cumbersome" as being "gimmicky"...mmmm, ok. Fair enough. :)


but it is just not for me. But like I said, to each his own.

Ok, cool! :D

[desidog]

My arrows for my compound bow run about 40 bucks apiece. (carbon, knock, broadhead, etc.) So i get really pissed off at myself when i miss and lose one....or even when i hit and lose one! So, with this uber-powerful xbow....how many bolts are you going to be recovering? How many blades are you going to be breaking?

Re-reading this now, OP, with more comments since last time, it appears to me that you've already made up your mind. So go ahead already and give us a range report already!

...and why weren't you previously utilizing those 3.5 months of hunting? ...albeit with a bow. Your statements and questions about hunting with x, y, or z to Shaggy430 sound like it could have been a case of the pot calling the kettle black; although apparently Shaggy's polished.

I mean, if you already know everything and know what you're going to get, why ask us at all? It's like me asking, "I'm gonna go poop now....think i should wipe?" when i know darn well that i wipe every time; and i'll have grown a tail before i read your reply anyway.

[Floppy_D]

They need to make an AK-based crossbow, so we can get back to petty quibbling over which would be more effective or reliable.

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

I mean, if you already know everything....

I don't know everything - that's why I was ASKING him what he meant by 'gimmicky' - thought I might have been missing something; turns out I wasn't.

and why weren't you previously utilizing those 3.5 months of hunting? ...albeit with a bow

I was.

So go ahead already and give us a range report already!

I will as soon as I get together $1,300. :p

[grubbylabs]

Well I for one am a big fan of people hunting how ever and with what ever as long as its legal. I hope you do get it and I hope it is the most fun you have had shooting in a long time. I use to spend a lot of time on an archery forum but lately they are so anti hunting over there because some one did not use the bow or method they think is appropriate:banghead:. It makes me sick to see people bash some one over their preferred method of hunting, if its legal and you stay within your effective limits and you have fun, then what do I care? The reason they have so many types of weapons is because there are so many of us. To each his own. Have fun with it, that's what it is all about.