Jericho 941 questions


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MrIzhevsk
February 15, 2010, 07:36 PM
I've been doing some research about the Jericho 941 lately. In a couple months I should have enough saved up to get a steel framed one but I'd like it to be in .45 acp.

So far I believe that the .45acp versions are not produced in the full length version, but only the sub-compact version with the 3.5 inch barrel. But are they made without the light rail?

Edit--Also, is there any advantage to the frame mounted safety? Does it have the same functions as the slide mounted one?

Many thanks

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stevemis
February 15, 2010, 10:36 PM
I bought a 45 Baby Eagle about a year ago. It's hard chrome, full size with a rail. It has the slide-mounted safety. I personally prefer a frame-mount safety.

Be careful buying either of these guns right now. The current US importer, Charles Daly, went out of business a few weeks ago. I don't think you'll have any support/warranty if you get one imported by Daly.

I'd venture to guess Magnum Research will pick up the pieces, since they were the importer before Charles Daly. Another option would be for IWI/IMI to open up a US-based company to serve as the importer, just like CZ did with CZ-USA.

MrIzhevsk
February 15, 2010, 10:43 PM
is the only difference between the two safeties the location? I'm guessing those who prefer the frame mounted safety will want it because they won't have to change their grip as much?

stevemis
February 15, 2010, 10:51 PM
One could argue the slide-mounted safety makes the mechanism a little more complicated. I don't really have an opinion on the matter from the technical standpoint ... it's more personal preference... what you can reach easily, what you're used to and what feels best.

If the 941 doesn't fit you right, you should look at the CZ line. Especially the P01 and compact models. The 941 is a shockingly similar design, except CZ's have frame mounted safety.

E-Rock
February 16, 2010, 01:31 PM
I've got the Magnum Research Baby Eagle version of the 941 in .45acp, 3.5" barrel without the rail. It sounds like you're looking for the older MR imported models of the Jericho if you want all steel and no rail.

I like it well enough, even carry it regularly. The model line exactly fulfilled my criteria for a .45 at the time: semi-compact, all steel, double-stack, non-1911. I don't find the slide mounted decocker to be a big hassle and like that if the decocker somehow flips off it still takes a DA trigger pull to fire. The decocker isn't in an awkward position and I can flip it on an off with my thumb without adjusting my grip. I haven't looked into this but there is a pin where the frame mounted safety would go on a CZ or Witness. I'm not much for tinkering with my guns so I've never found out if the decocker could be moved or a safety could be installed there.

I've never had any problems with mine, although I'm just now getting up to 1000 rounds through it. It strips easily and is easy to clean. I can't tell any performance difference between the polygonal rifling in the BE and the rifling in any of my other pistols.

In my opinion, these guns are kind of a sleeper value. There is a lot of quality and performance packaged into them and these pistols are an excellent choice if you are looking for something to fulfill the qualifications I outlined above.

MrIzhevsk
February 16, 2010, 04:29 PM
How bad do you feel the muzzle flip is with the shorter barrel and .45acp?

E-Rock
February 16, 2010, 07:42 PM
I don't have much to compare the BE to in other .45's. Compared to mid-frame Glock (can't recall model right now) it has less muzzle flip, but it's not quite as smooth as a full size 1911. It does weigh 2.5lbs empty so it sucks up most of the recoil and you can feel the weight of the slide slingshotting after each round. I find it to be very controllable, but I do notice I have a much more aggressive/stronger grip when switching to a smaller caliber after shooting the BE. I'm not sure if that is a result of the caliber or of the particular pistol.

When I'm calm and comfortable shooting the BE I find that it just falls back onto target after each shot, but I've never practiced any high stress drills with it. Rapid fire practice doesn't take much out of me and target aquisition is not a challenge.

I've never really thought about it as a short-barrelled pistol until now. To me it shoots like a much larger pistol until I hold it next to something like a K-frame S&W and see how much smaller the BE is than a 4" revolver. Granted it's still a heavy chunk of steel, but it carries its weight well.

MrIzhevsk
February 16, 2010, 07:56 PM
E-Rock, thanks for the input. I'm going to keep tryin to find info and looking at prices of them. Hopefully something more definite will come up as to who will be handling the repairs/parts/imports of them since Charles Daly and K.B.I. are closed up now.

EGGMAN240
February 16, 2010, 08:11 PM
I have a Steel BE 9mm semi compact. Best 9 I have ever owned. It has never missed a shot, even with 1980 Afghani ammo that smelled like old socks.


http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv92/eggersj/DSC00729.jpg

MrIzhevsk
February 16, 2010, 08:22 PM
Eggman those grips look great! Does anybody know how rare a .45 acp version is to come by? I've found two or so on gun broker. I wouldn't be buying it from there, but does that say anything about how hard they might be to come by? I know my LGS probably doesn't have one.

piff
February 16, 2010, 09:47 PM
why not go to your local FFL and see if you get one ordered?? A buddy of mine picked one of these up not to long ago in 9mm and its a very nice piece.

Arthur2001
February 17, 2010, 09:10 AM
A good question;

"is the only difference between the two safeties the location? I'm guessing those who prefer the frame mounted safety will want it because they won't have to change their grip as much?"

I don't know the answer but I am curious on it !!!!

Maybe the slide mounted safety can be use as a de-cocker lever and safety lever as Cougar 8000 F'... Can anyone confirm this ????

dom1104
February 17, 2010, 09:53 AM
I dont want to sound like an old grouch, but the 941 is in my opinion a terrible pistol.

It is a CZ clone, kinda spotty as far as customer service and support, the company that supplies it keeps changing, it has a horrible selection of holsters, the slide mounted safety can get you killed when you "tap rack" you can engage it very easily, and it is in no way superiour than a real CZ.

Parts are easier to find for a CZ, support definatly is, holsters, and a frame mounted safety is simply less likely to be engaged when clearing a malfunction or under stress.

Its a.... not a peice of junk, but there is simply no reason to choose it over the original.

Again, all my opinion, but if I was given one I would sell it instantly.

I just noticed that you are referring to the .45 acp version. As CZ does not make a compact in .45 that would be one reason to consider it. I would still strongly steer you away from it. I know a lot of dissatisfied people when it comes to the "Baby Eagle" or the "Jericho".

I know the name "Jericho" is cool, as is everything that comes from Israel, but dont let that sway you into a substandard pistol.

EGGMAN240
February 17, 2010, 12:54 PM
Hi Dom,

I don't agree at all. How can you say these things without even owning one or shooting one? Shouldn't pass judgement before you experience first hand. If you have, then I digress...

I understand and agree about the lack of accessories... That has been my only complaint about mine. Other than that, it's a winner in my book! It is a quality made and reliable pistol. The polygonal barrel is accurate as all get out, and the SA trigger is amazing for a stock pistol. AND Its the least picky pistol I own (including a Glock 17L). I will never sell mine unless my house depended on it.

A lot of people have bad opinions of them because of the corny Baby Eagle name, but everyone that has shot mine LOVES it. Handle one and your tune may change.

Of note, I ordered a CZ Tac. Sport, so I'll join that club soon...

MrIzhevsk
February 17, 2010, 02:09 PM
I can see where Dom is coming from on the matter. However well built the clone is, its still....a clone. That could be a turn off for many people even if the clone is flawless in every respect.

I could also understand how it may be a turn off about how many times the management of this pistol has changed hands in the past years that it has been sold here.

The reason I'm attracted to the pistol is because it felt good in hand (held one at a gun show 9mm I think?) and had a good weight to it. Not sure why but the extra weight just felt better than the polymers that I handled that day. I believe the handle dimension are the same as a CZ-75 though aren't they?

Could you explain what you mean by "tap rack" and how that could get me killed?

dom1104
February 17, 2010, 03:33 PM
Could you explain what you mean by "tap rack" and how that could get me killed?

Well this video is a all I could find in less than 10 seconds.

A tap rack is pretty basic malfuction clearing drill for an autoloading pistol.

Watch the video and when he puts his hand on the slide to work it back, imagine a slide mounted safety ....at about 40 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyjD37-GcJQ

Very easy to engage a slide mounted safety during a malfunction drill.

So the situation where you may die is...

<Pistol has a malfunction>

<Tap the magazine, grab the slide, pull it back :accidentally engaging the slide mounted safety>

<click click>

whatever hypothetical way of dying happens now. :)


My preference, is not to buy pistols with slide mounted safeties. Or that are made by clone manufactorers, that change importers, and have very few holsters or spare parts.

They were first sold by magnum research, who has replaced the "Baby Eagle" name with a Walther P99 clone I think, then shifted over to Charles Daly who I think recently went out of business right?

I havent really kept up, but thats enough to scare me away.

1. Bad safety location.
2. sketchy parts and service outlook
3. hard to find parts and accessories.

I dont need to shoot it to make a judgement based on those factors. And I dont think we should hold posters to the "if you havent owned it dont say anything" standard, that eliminates a lot of potential information.

If the 941 was half the cost of a CZ I would understand. But I believe they are actually more expensive.

The OTHER thing that just occored to me, is that all CZ pistols have a flaw in them, in that the reversed slide inside the frame setup gives you very little to grab onto, when you do go to rack the slide. cutting down the available real-estate to grab onto with a slide safety.... and no forward serrations...

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/jericho03b.jpg

See what I am sayin?

dom1104
February 17, 2010, 03:35 PM
Now compare that to the CZ.

http://www.strzelnica-magnum.pl/sklep/images/CZ%2075%20SP-01%20Shadow.jpg

Still very limited "grabby space" but at least not all gooked up by a safety.

To me, the space under the safety on the 941 is just begging for something there. Maybe they had to relocate it due to patents? not sure.

MrIzhevsk
February 18, 2010, 06:15 PM
Sorry I haven't been able to keep up with the thread.

These are all very good points Dom, I am still thinking well in advance and haven't made up my mind as to what I will be spending my saved up money on. I will definitely be considering the points discussed in this thread. Thanks everybody!

NG VI
February 18, 2010, 06:38 PM
Dom the safety on the Jericho actually improves grabbing ability, you just use the safety as a slide knob, much like on a Ruger or Beretta.

And that 'flaw' of having a small slide keeps the pistol nice and trim, eases carry, and really isn't any more difficult to rack. It also helps keep the dreaded bore axis low in the hand, a positive in every way I can think of.

richw
February 18, 2010, 09:46 PM
I think calling the Jericho 941 a sub standard pistol is a bit unfair. I would agree accessory wise, parts availability, you are better of with a CZ or EAA.

On the "baby eagle" replacement, I think its a Turkish pistol called an Akdal Ghost. Charles Daly had pictures of a very similar gun to the Ghost and the new one for Magnum Research. I am pretty sure that if we look on the CD forums, its pistol was coming from Turkey, but that they never said which pistol it was. The pictures make me think it was the Ghost. The Magnum Research pistol looks exactly the same to me.

Btw, I have never owned a Jericho, or Charles Daly gun for that matter.

Mikhail Konovalov
February 19, 2010, 02:02 PM
Owner of a secondhand early Magnum Research imported Jericho 941 full size 9mm here.

Firstly, I want to address Dom's "Tap-rack-die" point. I can see how slide mounted safeties can interfere with an emergency slide-rack, but technique counts for a lot, and the Jericho does have something to grab on to, even if it's a bit unusual. I just snag that beefy rear sight and use it like a charging handle. There's plenty of leverage, and since we all know fine motor control goes down the tubes in stressful moments, it can be done with one's weak-hand wrist.

As for calling the Jericho a sub-standard pistol, well, I disagree on every possible level.

A clone? You bet. So are Kimber 1911's, S&W 1911's, SIG GSR's, and basically every 1911 pattern pistol on the market. The Springfield XD is a repackaged HS2000, the Beretta 92 is a tarted up Walther P38, incorporating existing design elements into a new product is normal, and a cloned firearm is in no way automatically inferior to the original. Not to be hostile, but that's just elitist.

As for customer service, Magnum Research has taken care of me from day one, and I'm not the original owner. I bought mine with no box, no manual, no nothing. Just the pistol and one magazine. I've never had a problem with their customer service, and they ship fast. I can't speak for Charles Daly or KBI, though, so my case may be the exception there.

Pricing varies wildly, I got mine for $325, but I've seen them listed for as high as $800. Just have to shop around.

A word on accuracy, myself and a few other range-going folks passed around my Jericho and an H&K USP Compact, letting each person fire a mag. Everyone (With one exception) was more accurate with the Jericho. Now, before I get a German fist buried in my nose, I do -not- attribute this to any mechanical aspect of either weapon. It was pure ergonomics at work. The Jericho's grip just cooperated better with most of us, so we shot better. The inverse was true for the man who favored the H&K.

On to build quality. I've heard horror stories from people who have never owned or fired a Jericho that they're covered in ugly toolmarks and put together by drunken apes. In my experience that simply isn't true. Mine is straight as an arrow and the interior is a lot prettier than my 1911. It's not a burnished specimen of laser-milled, lovingly-polished perfection, but it's no Lorcin, either.

Holsters specifically for the Jericho are very difficult to find (Save for Fobus OWB paddle holsters.), but I've never had any trouble finding sights, magazines, grips, or even replacement barrels.

In conclusion, as if this post weren't long enough, after five years, the Jericho remains the most comfortable and accurate (For my hands) pistol I've encountered. No malfunctions other than a couple of FTF's from dud rounds, and it'll feed empty casings. It's a breeze to clean thanks to the polygonal rifling and the chrome-lined barrel, and it disappears under a tee shirt with a generic pouch holster. I'd still like to see the 941F (Full size, frame-mounted safety) imported to the US, but the slide mounted safety/decocker doesn't get in my way. I highly recommend this pistol if it works for you. If the grip angle feels wonky or the thing just won't point, then get something else, but if it does point, then it will do you proud, if mine is any indication.

richw
February 19, 2010, 09:16 PM
I have never dealt with CD, but their rep for customer service was actually very respectable.

NG VI
February 19, 2010, 09:20 PM
Just want to reiterate that the slide mounted safety is an extremely handy knob for racking the slide.

ilsrwy27
March 5, 2010, 08:48 AM
Anybody here owns one with the FRAME safety? I wonder how many positions the hammer has one this one. On the slide safety versions it's either cocked or down. Wonder if there is a half cocked on the frame safety version like on the Tanfoglios and CZs and if the safety can be engaged when the hammer is down or half cocked like on the Tanfoglios or only when cocked like on the CZ75B.

MachIVshooter
March 5, 2010, 11:06 AM
Very easy to engage a slide mounted safety during a malfunction drill.

Perhaps if you're uncoordinated or just plain retarded. I have a number of guns with slide mounted safeties, and have never engaged them by accident.

dom1104
March 5, 2010, 02:11 PM
Perhaps if you're uncoordinated or just plain retarded. I have a number of guns with slide mounted safeties, and have never engaged them by accident.

Not going to participate in name calling and making things personal.

I honestly dont care what anyone buys.

But using a safety as a "cocking handle" is bad form. A pistol should not force you to apply force to a safety lever in order to work the slide.

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