Magnum primers with Alliant 2400


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TonyAngel
February 16, 2010, 04:25 AM
Hey guys,

I have more questions. I've been reloading for 20 years and I feel like a noob since I got the Blackhawk. Anyway, I just ordered some Alliant 2400. There was data all over the place for this powder for use in .38 and .357. In the reading I did, it seems that everyone is advising (warning) against using magnum primers with this powder in both the .38 and the .357. Even Alliant's online data lists a standard small pistol primer in both .38 and .357 recipes.

My problem is that with the shortage and all, I standardized on small pistol magnum primers and haven't had any trouble at all in any of my loads. I ordered a BUTT LOAD of these primers because I found them in stock at Cabelas AND they were on sale.

I'm going to be using the 2400 to load both .38 and .357. Now my question is this. If I use starting data to work up my loads with the 2400, am I going to blow myself up using these Federal small pistol magnum primers?

BTW, how does this 2400 meter? I understand that it's a flake powder and I generally try to stay with ball powders because they flow so well through my Dillon powder measure. I DO NOT want to have to be weighing every drop.

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ljnowell
February 16, 2010, 04:35 AM
I load 2400 in 4 colt, at high pressure in Ruger only loads for a blackhawk, and I use regular primers. 2400 lights off without a problem, even in really butt cold global warming weather like we have had recently. Starting this week I am packing it into 357s myself, so we will find out together!

Remo-99
February 16, 2010, 05:17 AM
BTW, how does this 2400 meter? I understand that it's a flake powder and I generally try to stay with ball powders because they flow so well through my Dillon powder measure. I DO NOT want to have to be weighing every drop.

2400 is basically a very short cut extruded powder, and usually there is no need to use mag primers as it dosen't have a graphite coating like the ball powders and flattened ball powders have, which often require a stronger flame for reliable ignition.

While it's best to use the primer type the load data listed has used. There would be no safety concerns provided the load is worked up carefully from starting levels with the primer type of choice be it standard or magnum.(regarding .357magnum anyways)

And yes I've found 2400 to meter well in powder measures.

Randy1911
February 16, 2010, 05:23 AM
I load 2400 and it meters very well. It is a very fine powder. As far as using mag primerw, at the lower loads you should be fine. Years ago they required mag primers. They must have changed the powder some to make it light easier. I use Wimchester primers for my 44 mag loads, and they are labeled "for standard or magnum loads" and they give me no trouble.

MovedWest
February 16, 2010, 05:35 AM
I can't attest to how it works in 357mag, but I back up the truck any time I can get a good deal on 2400. I use it for any serious load in 44mag with CCI 350 magnum primers (because they will light the charge reliably in freezing weather). In my data I just back off 5% on the charge dose when I use a magnum primer. Keep in mind I'm using LPM primers. I don't know where you'd be with SPM primers. A series of chrono tests should help you find a good estimate though.

As for metering, I hear it meters well. It doesn't flow like AA#9, but it's pretty good. I am personally space-challenged at the moment with no room to mount a press. I weigh every charge and work with a hand press. No fancy metering stuff for this cave dweller... :rolleyes:

-MW

ljnowell
February 16, 2010, 09:48 AM
THIS IS ABOVE STANDARD DATA AND WILL DESTROY EVERYTHING ELSE BUT MY GUN!

I load 18gr of 2400 under a 300gr LTC with a standard primer, it lights off fine in single digit weather.

Rollis R. Karvellis
February 16, 2010, 11:15 AM
I, have found that when loading large columes of 2400 the mag primers do a very good job, with the WW primers I, would get unburt powder and, inconsitint group's. My curunt pet is 110gn V-Max, 19gn. of 2400, with the FSPM primer. I am working on .41 mag, the only reason I, have stalled on this project becuse I, just haven't found any CCI LMP.

Steve C
February 16, 2010, 12:43 PM
Many years ago I was using mag primers with 2400 and 158gr JHP's in the .357 mag and found that I would get pressure signs (cratered, pierced and blown primers) at anything over 13.5grs of powder though the maximum loads in the manual (Speer#9) was 14.7grs. So I standardized my load at around 13.0grs.

Using standard primers I currently load 14.0grs for a factory equivalent with 158gr jacketed bullets at 1,247 fps from my 4" S&W 66 revolver with no pressure signs.

As long as you develop your load from a start level, IE 10% reduction from maximum and work up slowly you are in no danger using magnum primers. Just be aware that you will likely start seeing pressure signs below the maximum charge listed in the manuals that are using standard primers in their load development.

zxcvbob
February 16, 2010, 01:00 PM
Alliant's load book from a few years ago used Federal #200 primers for all of their .357 Magnum data -- even with Red Dot. Magnum primers will work just fine with 2400 powder. If you are doing precision target loads, regular primers might be better, but that's not what you asked about.

(I often use Wolf small rifle primers to load .357 Magnum because I've got thousands of 'em and I like how they work)

TonyAngel
February 16, 2010, 01:13 PM
Thanks for the info guys. I understand that the use of magnum primers with 2400 may not be ideal. I just didn't want to blow myself up and thought I'd ask. Sometimes, what you don't know can surely hurt you.

RB98SS
February 16, 2010, 02:04 PM
Tony,

I'm not at home to check but I believe ALL of the load data listed in the Lyman 49th (and 48th I think) for .357 is with magnum primers. 2400 included. Pick up one of those if you want to use the magnum primers.

Crashbox
February 16, 2010, 08:29 PM
I really like 2400 and Federal SP magnum primers- I've been using 17+ grains of the stuff pushing a 125-grain JHP through my GP100. ZERO problems. RB98SS is correct WRT Lyman's 49th.

I have also found that 2400 meters very well through my Hornady powder measure, YMMV.

243winxb
February 16, 2010, 08:37 PM
Now my question is this. If I use starting data to work up my loads with the 2400, am I going to blow myself up using these Federal small pistol magnum primers? NO. how does this 2400 meter? Very well.

TonyAngel
February 16, 2010, 10:12 PM
Thanks for the comments. I have my head all messed up now. I'm thinking too much about the stuff. I went to Cabelas today and was going to pick up the Lyman's manual. I opened it up and I didn't see any data for loading a 158gr LSWC. I put it down and got the Complete Reloading Manual for the .357 Magnum. It had all data in it. I was happy. Now I read the inside cover and it's copy righted 2004. The data in the manual seems to be out of date because is varies from loads published on the net. At least I ran across 2K Federal small pistol primers.

Maj Dad
February 16, 2010, 11:20 PM
I used to get a bunch of unburnt powder with CCI standard primers & 2400. Mag primers helped significantly & now I use them for all 2400 loads. I use mostly Winchester "Standard or Magnum" primers, but I also have a good stash of CCI mag primers I use for 2400 with very good results. A "magnum" primer just has a bit hotter flash - hardly deserving of the term "magnum" but we've come to accept the concept. Honestly, I don't make a big distinction between std & mag with the understanding that the mags can, but not necessarly will raise pressure, & take that into consideration when loading. Caveat Load-er ;)

TonyAngel
February 17, 2010, 01:26 AM
Yeah, I gotta tell ya, I've been using magnum primers in place of standard primers since I came back to reloading after taking a bit of a break. With the shortage and all, it was easier to just load up on what I could find at the moment.

Now that I've been reviewing load data I was just getting a little nervous. I've looked at older data (even stuff still on handloads.com) and it lists magnum primers for 2400 loads. The data on Alliant's site says to use standard primers. Another example is the Complete .357 book that I just got. It also lists the use of magnum primers with 2400. Another example of what has me worried is that I checked out the data for Accurate powders.

I'm a big fan of Accurate powders going back to my USPSA days shooting limited with a 45. No. 2 was a magic powder for me. Anyway, the Complete .357 handbook lists loads for a 158gr LSWC using No. 7 with a charge range of like 9.9 to 11 grains giving some really good velocities. Velocities equivalent to those that you can attain with 2400. If I can use No. 7 or No. 9 to get the performance that I would from 2400, I'd be happy because I can get Accurate powders locally and won't have to store it by the keg. I double checked the Accurate website and, get this, the website for the same projectile using No. 7 lists a load range of 9.1 to 10.1 grains with velocities that just exceed those of .38 +P loads. The only difference in components is that the loads listed in the Complete handbook call for standard primers. The loads listed on Accurate's website call for magnum primers. This is what makes me wonder if the primer itself accounts for the difference in data.

So, what do I follow? The Complete handbook or the data on Accurate's site. Sense tells me to follow the website. I'm gonna have to start another thread on Accurate powders. I can't believe that I have this many questions.

243winxb
February 17, 2010, 01:49 AM
Go to the websites of primer manufactures. Take note of the primer # they list for 357 mag. and the 38 spec. They are different.

TonyAngel
February 17, 2010, 01:56 AM
Yes, they are. .38 is supposedly to be loaded with standard small pistol primers. .357 is supposedly to be loaded with small pistol magnum primers. Thing is, primer manufacturers don't write load data.

On another note, Accurate's website lists the Winchester small pistol magnum primer as a component. I know that Winchesters are probably the hottest small pistol primer there is. Maybe that makes a difference.

I'm still confused.

ArchAngelCD
February 17, 2010, 06:29 AM
Older Speer manuals used to specify standard and magnum primers for different powders in the .357 Magnum data. I think to make things simple on themselves for testing they now use magnum primers for all powders with anything called "Magnum." I really think it's for simplicity. The only powders that require the use of Magnum primers are hard to ignite ball powders like W296/H110, HS6 and HS-7.

I've found when using 2400 I get better results when using a standard primer over a magnum primer. I also found when you download 2400, like most powders, you will get a lot of unburnt powder because of the lower pressures. In those cases if the unburnt powder really bothers you a magnum primer might help. I just move to a faster powder instead of downloading because in general powders will perform better in the upper pressure limits.

zxcvbob
February 17, 2010, 10:10 AM
Now that I've been reviewing load data I was just getting a little nervous. I've looked at older data (even stuff still on handloads.com) and it lists magnum primers for 2400 loads. The data on Alliant's site says to use standard primers. Another example is the Complete .357 book that I just got. It also lists the use of magnum primers with 2400. Another example of what has me worried is that I checked out the data for Accurate powders.You're over analyzing it. There's about 30 or 40 different primers out there that will fit and will work. Each one has a little different burn characteristics. Each bullet has a little different internal ballistics. There are lot-to-lot variations in gunpowder. That's why you start low and work up when loading new data or new components. As you gain experience with what works in your gun, you can shortcut that process a little but not much (start at -5% instead of -10%.)

TonyAngel
February 17, 2010, 11:52 AM
OK, thanks for all of the comments.

zxcvbob, that's just what I needed to hear.

Remo-99
February 22, 2010, 02:26 AM
zxcvbob has put it well, basically pay less attention to the primer type the data says, as all will vary(regarding 357mag and 2400) and if you use starting load data to workup you should be fine.

On the other hand if you just took the max load which may or may not have used a standard primer to work up, then just bang in a mag primer and any old bullet that suits the bill, then sooner or later your gonna run into issues, maybe sooner than later.

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