EAA rant

A many months ago i got bite bye the NFA Bug. Due to that obsession I recently purchased a Silencer Co osprey in .40. After i Ordered the Osprey can and an AAC Element from Major Malfunction (who by the way was very helpful knowledgeable and had the best price around) everything was good to go . Then I started the long depression process of finding threaded barrels. Did a quick Google search find to out what kind of barrels are available. Not many for m host weapons a Walter p99 in .40 and a EAA GOLD TEAM ELITE in .40. The Walther no problem EKF fire-dragon had a barrel available in the thread pattern i needed no problem. The problem came when i attempted to suppress the EAA. Nobody has a barrel for it in the correct thread pattern. SO here is were it all starts.
First i contact EAA 2/4/10 Listen to the stupid voice mail robot press the corresponding digit for customer service (which is one of only two choices) A women picks up "ask what can i help you with" I explain my situation that i need a threaded barrel for the elite gold team She returns with "we don't have thread barrels ". I ask can i buy an extended barrel she says no i ask what if i need a replacement barrel she hangs up. (Keep in mind this is the gold team elite there most expensive firearm other than their 50 rifle)

call back the same day praying to speak to someone else Nope same women this time ask different question "could someone measure the barrel for me i am in new york and my guns are in Florida " She says "sure whats your phone number well call you back" I fall for this no one calls me back

Call the next day ask more questions (I really want to suppress this gun ) get the runaround Finally realize by her answers to my questions that the person I am talking to doesn't know politely ask to speak to tech She says "whats your phone number i will have him call you"

Finally five days go by, Start to have nightmares of a suppressor and no gun to shoot it on

decided to call more run a rounds i don't even remember the crap they are telling me
basically boils down to calls back and fourth hes the call log from t mobile

02/16/10 03:50 PM COCOA, FL 321-639-4842
02/16/10 03:41 PM COCOA, FL 321-639-4842
02/16/10 01:39 PM COCOA, FL 321-639-4842
02/15/10 05:19 PM COCOA, FL 321-639-4842
02/13/10 01:48 PM COCOA, FL 321-639-4842
02/12/10 10:33 AM COCOA, FL 321-639-4842
02/12/10 10:18 AM COCOA, FL 321-639-4842
02/10/10 03:23 PM COCOA, FL 321-639-4842
02/05/10 04:41 PM COCOA, FL 321-639-4842
02/04/10 03:53 PM COCOA, FL 321-639-4842
02/04/10 03:52 PM COCOA, FL 321-639-4842
02/04/10 01:53 PM COCOA, FL 321-639-4842
02/04/10 01:52 PM COCOA, FL 321-639-4842
02/04/10 01:51 PM COCOA, FL 321-639-4842

It all comes to conclusion on the 16 when finally i get a hold of the tech
the the conversation goes like this
Me Hello
tech Hello
Me thank god finally i have been trying to get a hold of you guys for two weeks in a playful manner
tech Nope No you Haven't
Me excuse me
tech You haven't been trying to get a hold of me for two weeks i call everyone back at the end of the night
me AHHHHHH OK sure can you answer some question for me (I really wanted to argue with him about his staff and how many times i called but felt that i needed the information more)
me whats the diameter of the barrel in the gold team elite
tech why do you ask
Me well i have one and want to suppress it tornado tech said they need to know the barrel diameter to see what thread are available
tech why don't you measure yours (I found this rude )
me i explain Im in New York and my weapons are in Florida
tech well i don't have one right here
me OK
the rest of the five minutes of the conversation was spent on him telling me my gun is custom and i cant suppress it because of this that and the other
basically sounded like bull

there's more but Im tired
pretty much the customer service at eaa is some of the employees seem to not know i mean i don't know everything but i was always trained if i didn't know i would try and find out instead of giving a bunch of bull information that doesn't relate to the question at hand.

this was my experience with EAA your experience may vary Just as long as your questions aren't very challenging and don't require employees to know or actually do any work

http://i1014.photobucket.com/albums/af268/mcfluryxx/DSC00207.jpg
Heres a pic of the gun in question she is but will probably never wear a suppressor

So, let me get this straight...

You bought a suppressor without checking first to see if you could get a threaded (or at least extended) barrel for your host gun?

Then you called and got rude customer service from EAA. But what you seem most annoyed about is that their tech folks don't have an example of a limited edition gun sitting around to measure the barrel for you, when you own one yourself and could measure it. Except your guns are in Florida and you're in New York.

And then you're annoyed that the tech guy tells you it can't be suppressed because of some "BS" explanation.

That's a nice picture of your gun. It looks like it's compensated, to me. Answer me this: how do you suppress a compensated gun? What are you going to do about the noise of the gasses escaping from the compensator ports?

I mean I dislike rude customer service as much as the next guy, but you seem to have created your own problem and then wanted them to fix it. They made the gun, but you're the one that bought a suppressor for a compensated pistol and can't measure the barrel because you left it in another state.

Aaron

In response to Aaron Baker's comment


no i am annoyed by the fact i contacted them 16 times got the run around spoke to three different people who didn't know anything no returned phones calls as promised and finally when i spoke to a tech he pretty much called me a liar
in my original post i explain that this only one of the host weapons
also i explain i want a barrel blank that's unported to thread for a suppressor
which i think they have but don't know they are interchangeable

My main problem is trying to find a barrel that fits in this gun no big deal if i cant find it no matter i have other pistols that will be suppressed

My main complaint is EAA's customer service look at the call log

the gun is perfect
but when i purchase a firearm i am purchasing piece of mind i mean the companies commitment to service and reputation
now granted i am not complaining about the gun in any means i am not having a problem suppressing the firearm i am having an information problem

its the companies customer service that blows thats the reason for the warning

also i really want the threaded barrel just to have the option for a suppressor just because i can
ill still shoot it with the compensator that's what it was designed for and what i bought it for


one more point i have bought many inferior products from company x because they had better customer service than other companies


but you are right this could be an isolated incident of only sixteen occurrences and just my experience so i will change the subject line

customer service goes along way

To bad you can not give walter as much crap as eaa about a barrel for you. After all you did go aftermarket for that barrel. You said you bought from dragon fire for the walter then why not get a 2 for discount and get your 5.21" or 6" treaded barrel for the witness there. OF course you would need to know your barrel thickness. They do offer 2 different treads for the barrel,one should work. They have also from time to time have gone out of there way to do some custom work too. Also you do know that the tyically very nice lady at EAA that answers the phone and does take care of most peoples needs ,,given a couple days to talk to the smithy first if needed, she is just there receptionist and paper shufler. Also if the tech person there is needed ,,,he also is the smithy, GIVE them time to react to your demands. But remember after to many bs calls your needs might have been over looked for some time. You after all did not even know the diameter of the barrel needed, They have several in the line like on the the hunter. Dragon fire would also need that info along with a length. If someone called me as many times as you call eaa i would also place your non-problem on a back burner. For the future there is atleast one factory shooter that has or had some 6" bull barrels in 40 and one custom shop that also had some. Like said before ,,you brought on most of your own BS just because of your attitude. Do all witness owners a favor and sell yours.

To bad you can not give walter as much crap as eaa about a barrel for you. After all you did go aftermarket for that barrel. You said you bought from dragon fire for the walter then why not get a 2 for discount and get your 5.21" or 6" treaded barrel for the witness there. OF course you would need to know your barrel thickness. They do offer 2 different treads for the barrel,one should work. They have also from time to time have gone out of there way to do some custom work too. Also you do know that the tyically very nice lady at EAA that answers the phone and does take care of most peoples needs ,,given a couple days to talk to the smithy first if needed, she is just there receptionist and paper shufler. Also if the tech person there is needed ,,,he also is the smithy, GIVE them time to react to your demands. But remember after to many bs calls your needs might have been over looked for some time. You after all did not even know the diameter of the barrel needed, They have several in the line like on the the hunter. Dragon fire would also need that info along with a length. If someone called me as many times as you call eaa i would also place your non-problem on a back burner. For the future there is atleast one factory shooter that has or had some 6" bull barrels in 40 and one custom shop that also had some. Like said before ,,you brought on most of your own BS just because of your attitude. Do all witness owners a favor and sell yours.
i get this guys website address from someone else on a different forum and funny i dont have to call sixteen times i call once the person who answers the phone knows exactly what i need and all the information off hand and he only sells parts
http://www.henningshootsguns.com

where in my post did i ever drop attitude ?
other than the two weeks comment which was just me being excited either way the tech didnt have to follow it up with calling me a liar
an fire dragon does make a threaded barrel but they don't fit in the gold team elite
i only called sixteen times because you know i want some ****ing service and when you say someone will call you back and no ones does well i guess i will call them since they have something i need
my original idea was to call eaa find if they make a barrel if not if they knew someone who did or could give me the dimensions of their barrels to bad it only took sixteen calls to to finally find out
if all witness owners are like you i will sell this pistol
and last i posted this on multiple forums and this definitely is not EAA first complaint

First, I'll say that, while EAA's CS is not known to be the best, they're usually pretty helpful if you do your part. I've called several times with questions and to order accessories, and never had an issue.

Secondly, the Gold Team uses a tapered cone barrel with a non-removeable (swedged) compensator. Unless they've changed that. You can order a Gold match barrel without the comp and have it threaded. But all the threaded factory and briley barrels for Tanfoglio pistols are straight profile. Probably should have gone with the Witness Match or Stock. Sorry.

Henning is The God as far as the EAA Witness line of handguns !!!! A better person is hard to find and he is a GrandMaster class IPSC/Action shooter.
Glad to hear you got in contact with him -- he makes up for the dillrods {gunsmith} guy at EAA !!!!

oh dont be sorry i love shooting the gun with the compensator just want if possible to shoot it suppressed

Henning is The God as far as the EAA Witness line of handguns !!!!

Agreed, and he's only about an hour's drive from my house :D

oh dont be sorry i love shooting the gun with the compensator

Oh, they're nice guns, for sure. I opted for the Limited 10mm myself. Wanted the wood grips and didn't care for the comp or the porting.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n117/Hunter2506/WitnessLimited10mm.jpg

wow that pistol looks great is the frame and slide polished

Dunno...EAA was actually pretty nice to me when I dealt with them. Granted, I was buying a new slide/barrel. Also bought a conefit guide rod from Henning -- great people!

It seems very typical of EAA tech service (my personal experience as well as others).

It is the main reason why I will never ever touch again any product remotely connected with them.

If you call just to order a specific common part (a magazine for example) you may be lucky...trying to have a technical conversation with their gunsmith is more unpleasant than getting a root canal....good luck in having him calling you back.

I'm very glad I was able to steer 3 people clear of buying their pistols...anything I can to take business away from them and give them all the bad publicity they richly deserve...I cannot believe a company like Tanfoglio relies on this bunch of folks to import their products in the most important private market for firearms in the world.

I would not trust EAA running a lemonade stand.

I had the same problem with t-mobile

me-ring,ring,ring...
t-mobile-(robot) Hello, to contact a representative please say your account number
me- look around for a bill and finally find it and say the numbers
t-mobile-(robot) a representative will be with you shortly.
me-wait
t-mobile-(20 minutes later) Hello, thank you for calling t-mobile I'm Cindy what can I do to help you?
me-Yes I would like to know when my contract expires?
t-mobile-Can I ask why you would like to know when your contract expires?
me-I am thinking about cancelling with t-mobile.
t-mobile-I'm sorry sir, but we cannot make this information available over the phone. to get that information, you are required to visit a t-mobile store for customer service.
me-(yeah right..) alright, thank you ma'am, and have a good afternoon.
t-mobile-hangs up.
me-get my son's phone and call's t-mobile customer service again
t-mobile-repeat steps two through five (then twenty minutes later)
t-mobile-Hello, thank you for calling t-mobile I'm Sarah what can I do to help you?
me-yes I would like to know when my contract expires?
t-mobile-May I ask why you want to know when your contract expires?
me- well, I am wanting a new free phone and I know that my contract has to be renewed at the end of my contract to be eligible for a full free upgrade, And I was just wondering when that is.
t-mobile- sir your contract expires on 08/08/2010.
me-okay thanks...
t-mobile- is there anything else I can help you with sir?
me-No. Have a good day ma'am.
t-mobile- Hangs up.

wonderful customer service, eh?

this could be an isolated incident of only sixteen occurrences
No, it is not.

I was going to suggest the Henning site that you have already found.

There's always the option of ordering the barrel from Tanfoglio, the maker of the Witness pistols.

EAA warranty work may have improved a bit in the past 8 years since my experience, but I had to send in the same pistol 3 times for them to address the exact same problem (that ultimately wasn't addressed). I had to sell the pistol as defective and take a loss. Due to my personal experience with EAA's customer service and warranty work, I've never even considered another EAA.

It's such a shame too since I like the looks of their 10mm Witness.

Is the 10mm witness still destroying itself or have they fixed that??

First, I'll say that, while EAA's CS is not known to be the best, they're usually pretty helpful if you do your part. I've called several times with questions and to order accessories, and never had an issue.

+1 same here.

Mec no the 10mm problems were with the round tops slides of some older guns. So the new types are as solid as any.
mcflurry ,it still goes back to the fact that if you did some research on your own pistol you might have seen it is not a likely unit to be siliened not every gun is. Again you could not get what you wanted from walter,right. Atleast you could have waited till you can get back to your own gun so you could mic the barrel and see if dragon fire could have helped or not.Or had the info to help with eaa's smithy. Maybe the girl that said ,No barrel is avaible ,like walter did and that could have been the end. Oh anyone that owns a witness should have allready known about henning first . He is the man with the witness pistols . You could have asked his option first, right. Or on the brian enos forum instead of just bad mouthing eaa here. Part of the problem is still you. The other is eaa is only 2 people. Real problems come first. A good attitude Helps. I like many others have ordered many things from them with good results but sometimes if what you want is not a priority it takes a while for them to get back to you. . Hope you don't own a toyota too.

Mec no the 10mm problems were with the round tops slides of some older guns. So the new types are as solid as any.
mcflurry ,it still goes back to the fact that if you did some research on your own pistol you might have seen it is not a likely unit to be siliened not every gun is. Again you could not get what you wanted from walter,right. Atleast you could have waited till you can get back to your own gun so you could mic the barrel and see if dragon fire could have helped or not.Or had the info to help with eaa's smithy. Maybe the girl that said ,No barrel is avaible ,like walter did and that could have been the end. Oh anyone that owns a witness should have allready known about henning first . He is the man with the witness pistols . You could have asked his option first, right. Or on the brian enos forum instead of just bad mouthing eaa here. Part of the problem is still you. The other is eaa is only 2 people. Real problems come first. A good attitude Helps. I like many others have ordered many things from them with good results but sometimes if what you want is not a priority it takes a while for them to get back to you. . Hope you don't own a toyota too.
first hardkuk1 i did research i knew not a lot of people silenced this weapon but i have seen this weapon silenced what that has to do with my experience i don't know hopefully people doing reasearch will see this post and know not to contact EAA

the pistol i purchased form eaa is not the primary host for the suppressor.
as for the Walther i called Walther America once they picked up said they didn't make any after market barrels easy peasey i researched on the EAA website that they made a six inch barrel and im like hey i can have TT thread that let me call them to make sure it fits and some general questions

as for eaa i had a positive attitude even after 15 calls it was not until i was called a liar that i had any resemblance of an attitude and even after that i decided to just move on and ask my questions.

again the gun works great tangfolio makes a fine weapon

as far as Brian enos or hennings website when i purchased my weapon the manual said for product questions contact EAA not these guys but now i know these forumsexit

if i wasn't called a liar by their smith or they would have returned said phone calls this and the other five internet forum posts wouldn't exit

finally according to the replies this is a known problem with EAA and they obviously dont care

This is true. They probably make the same money whether the customer is satisfied or not. Loose the customer? No problem. Just wait until another one comes along.

I still say they handle most real wants, needs and problems well. And for most, by the lady down there. Just give them time for non-problems to run a slow second to real problems. My 22 kit I wanted was on back order with out knowing any real idea when it would be avalable, took 2 months to get and was called when it came in. The other convertion kit just a couple days. Remeber you did start off calling 5 times in one day. Remember too she said they had NO treaded barrel and then knowing the gun is a compensated gold model that a barrel by it self would have altered the gun and not worked as intended. Should have stopped there. But Nooooooo ,lets push the subject. Just let it go. Your pissed and will stay that way and they think your ,,,well .Thats the way it is.

Mec no the 10mm problems were with the round tops slides of some older guns. So the new types are as solid as any.



Hardluk1

No they are not...their Gunsmith is adamant, no Corbon, Buffalo Bore or Double Tap...if you shoot full power 10mm in the new rounded top slides you crack the slide even with stiffer springs...personal experience.

i researched on the EAA website that they made a six inch barrel and im like hey i can have TT thread that let me call them to make sure it fits and some general questions

I already mentioned above that the threaded barrels will not fit the Limited, Stock and Gold Team models, as they have a tapered cone for positive lock up. The 6" is not tapered cone; it's just a straight profile match barrel. The threaded unit is a 5-1/4", also straight profile, designed to fit standard witness pistols. IT WILL NOT FIT Gold Team, Limited, Stock or Stock II models.

I tried to help you understand what it is you have and don't have, but you seem insistant that this problem is EAA's fault and that they're just a horrible company who is determined to piss you off. If you want a silenced Witness, it has to be the standard or match model. No one makes a threaded tapered cone barrel for the elites.

saturno . Another anti witness person. Interesting.I did say round style right ? YES Just missed the ( and old style guns). New style tops and full size frames out there have very little real problems with frames. Except for dummbies feeding them a steady diet of hot ammo. Now why would you shoot only the hottest rounds out,does witness say you should? OR can?
You could have a glock, blowing up ,a s&w model 29 shooting those same hot loads in 44 and have the frame bend ,break or just jamb. Even those fine italian pistols our goverment likes to send to or troops had a run of 9mm and 40's break'n frames. Would you shoot extra hot loads in a colt or s&w or taurus compact. Should i keep looking and typeing about gun problems? most brought on by a stupid gun owner.Some people ain't got the common sents god gave a mushroom. To bad you ain't shoot'n a s&w 29-1,-2, maybe -3 also, with those hot loads.

I already mentioned above that the threaded barrels will not fit the Limited, Stock and Gold Team models, as they have a tapered cone for positive lock up. The 6" is not tapered cone; it's just a straight profile match barrel. The threaded unit is a 5-1/4", also straight profile, designed to fit standard witness pistols. IT WILL NOT FIT Gold Team, Limited, Stock or Stock II models.

I tried to help you understand what it is you have and don't have, but you seem insistant that this problem is EAA's fault and that they're just a horrible company who is determined to piss you off. If you want a silenced Witness, it has to be the standard or match model. No one makes a threaded tapered cone barrel for the elites.
thanks MachIVshooter i am already aware that the elite needs a cone installed. That question was addressed by EAAs smith they answered that question on call number sixteen
also the 6 iThat is the way i am going to address the situation and again like stated before thench match barrel idea came from hennings website where he stated that he purchased one for his elite and his gunsmith made a cone for it. gun is great its EAAs CUSTOMER SERVICE THAT FAILED when he called me a liar.
But hey I know my gun only cost sixteen hundred and its only their top of the line model and i only spent and extra five hundred in accessories. i believe the first class customer service only comes with the four thousand dollar mark.

saturno . Another anti witness person. Interesting.I did say round style right ? YES Just missed the ( and old style guns). New style tops and full size frames out there have very little real problems with frames. Except for dummbies feeding them a steady diet of hot ammo. Now why would you shoot only the hottest rounds out,does witness say you should? OR can?
You could have a glock, blowing up ,a s&w model 29 shooting those same hot loads in 44 and have the frame bend ,break or just jamb. Even those fine italian pistols our goverment likes to send to or troops had a run of 9mm and 40's break'n frames. Would you shoot extra hot loads in a colt or s&w or taurus compact. Should i keep looking and typeing about gun problems? most brought on by a stupid gun owner.Some people ain't got the common sents god gave a mushroom. To bad you ain't shoot'n a s&w 29-1,-2, maybe -3 also, with those hot loads.
Just so everyone knows i am not antiwitness the pistol is badass. JUst EAAs customer service sucks this one instance your instance may vary. but I do recommend if you have an question about the witness go the hennings or brian enos or do as i did email tangfolio

Hardluk1

Corbon, Double Tap and Buffalo Bore are SAAMI compliant 10mm Auto loads..they are not "hot" loads...they are full power 10mm loads and as such a pistol designed for the cartridge should be able to use a steady diet of it...I'm using only DT and BB for my S&W 1006..if I want less power I use my .40.....

As a matter of fact I shoot only full power 44 Mag loads in my 8 3/8 barrel S&W 29-2 (Double Tap, Garrett non +P, etc..)

I do not shoot hot loads (exceeding SAAMI specs)..no bent or broken frames, no loose cylinders.

If you call any maker of 10mm Auto pistols (S&W, Glock, Kimber, etc..) they simply tell you "as long as the ammo is SAAMI compliant you are fine, fire at will"

EAA is the only one that tells you do not shoot Corbon, Buffalo Bore or Double Tap and on top of that they have a blanket nonsensical CYA statement in their user manual: "DO NOT USE +P Ammo or High Velocity High Pressure Ammunition"

What "High velocity High pressure" means?? By definition, the 10mm cartridge is a high velocity (for a handgun) and high pressure round.

Look for yourself in their manual

http://eaacorp.com/Manuals/witness.pdf

I'm not Anti Witness, I'm anti EAA because it is a joke of a company.

I'm not Anti Witness, I'm anti EAA because it is a joke of a company

Well, until another import company picks up Tanfoglios, we're kinda stuck with 'em if we want these fine pistols. I'll deal. Like I said before, I've had pretty positive experience dealing with them, but then, I wasn't rude or standoff-ish when I did. I think lots of folks get it in their head that EAA's CS is crap, and immediately have an attitude with them. Guess what? They're human beings too, and they'll respond in kind. I can tell you that when someone calls the shop with a problem and they are polite and reasonable, I'm happy to help them ASAP. But the guy who gives me the third degree before I even finish greeting will get something between a shine-on and a F*** off.

saturnov With the 44 you do not have to exceded the saami specs with the early s&w's just shoot heavy loads at near saami levels and that can cause many early guns to back up a cylinder ,in some cases open the cylinder. Now anyone that does shoot atleast BB's +p+ after reading the warning, well better just own a different gun than the 29. You also know what i mean by the newer slide design on the full size witness pistols. No round slide and no real problems with any chambering. And when you talk about changeing recoil springs,, Haveing to much spring can cause just as much damage as being under sprung in the recoil spring. Most just don't know it. Shoot your gun through a crono and when you get a variation( deviation) between shots as small as would be with standard lower power loads or atleast a small FPS number then your spring wieght is about right ,maybe, always maybe. I do the spring like some 1911 shooters do ,use just a peace of spring added to the rear of the stock or upgraded spring to slow the end of the recoil cycle and this will help control the slide and slow the forward movement of the slide to with out maybe over powering the forward movement. And slide damage. It's all a game to some point, some just don't try to find a fix and would reather just complain.