Guns used in the Olympics


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Skillet
February 17, 2010, 04:58 PM
As we all should know by now, the winter olympics are on every night. but as a shooter, one particular sport caught my eye. the biatholan. this is where the athletes ski and then shoot both prone and standing four times total.

These guns are interesting. the sights, and action are unique. they seem to have an easy action bolt action design setup, and some very advanced peep sights. any info on them?

this is what they look like-

http://i50.tinypic.com/2na2wz6.jpg

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Skillet
February 17, 2010, 04:59 PM
rats, looks like someone beat me to the thread post.
adds to it anyways (I need to start looking at the posts further down the line)

CoRoMo
February 17, 2010, 05:10 PM
Does the Olympic Committee allow the 'USA' emblem? I know an athlete recently got his chops busted for having a "Support the Troops" logo on him.:eek:

Phantom Warrior
February 17, 2010, 05:18 PM
Fourth Place Medal says most of them are the 1827 Anschütz Fortner. Article here (http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/vancouver/blog/fourth_place_medal/post/Fourth-Place-Medal-investigates-the-mystery-of-t;_ylt=AmSW.xYv.5nBL50xbsi2KlVptLV_?urn=oly,219825).

rmfnla
February 17, 2010, 05:49 PM
Does the Olympic Committee allow the 'USA' emblem? I know an athlete recently got his chops busted for having a "Support the Troops" logo on him.:eek:
"USA" and "Support the Troops" are miles apart.

Shung
February 17, 2010, 05:50 PM
there was a time they used military guns in the olympics.. lots of sport were derived from military disciplines...

Now, the shooting as a sport is totally politically correct with guns looking like spacecrafts..

CoRoMo
February 17, 2010, 05:52 PM
...miles apart.
Only in the eye of the beholder.;)

cskny
February 17, 2010, 06:21 PM
Quote:
...miles apart.
Only in the eye of the beholder.





I assume you're kidding right?

International athletic competition - One is the country NAME and the other is a message.

rmfnla
February 17, 2010, 06:49 PM
there was a time they used military guns in the olympics.. lots of sport were derived from military disciplines...

Now, the shooting as a sport is totally politically correct with guns looking like spacecrafts..
Yeah, but those guns look so damn cool!

I saw part of the biathalon; the shooter had a bolt action that required only a flick of a finger to operate. I Googled it; it's called a toggle bolt and here's an example:

http://www.mtguns.com/biathalon.htm

searcher451
February 17, 2010, 08:12 PM
You can check here as well:

http://www.raacfirearms.com/index.htm

And here:

http://www.altiusguns.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=37_42&osCsid=b8805cd11912469f0f22e933feea1ee7

HOV
February 17, 2010, 08:33 PM
Skiing and shooting

BEST JOB IN THE UNIVERSE

skiking
February 17, 2010, 09:42 PM
Skiing and shooting

BEST JOB IN THE UNIVERSE

I couldn't agree more

MikePGS
February 17, 2010, 10:07 PM
pshaw those olympic guys need to read this forum more. If they did they would realize that the only gun you need is a Glock/1911/HK , :neener:

brausso
February 18, 2010, 03:03 AM
well, we don't want to offend all the illegal aliens here in our country now do we? God forbid a USA logo or an american flag. As a matter of fact, we probably shouldn't accept any of the medals awarded to our country's athletes either because that wouldn't be fair to all the other countries. What we probably should do is divide all the medals up evenly to all the countries participating because the athletes that work hardest and earn the medals...well that's just not fair that they get to stand on a podium and receive a medal.

Leadhead
March 2, 2010, 03:17 PM
Biathlon results,
http://www.vancouver2010.com/olympic-biathlon-medals/
Maybe if the euros were as nice as you we'd get some North American medals in Biathlon.....or we could just learn to ski faster and shoot better.

ArmedBear
March 2, 2010, 03:26 PM
Shung: Of course, all sports tend towards brightly-colored uniforms and equipment (skis, racing shells, sailboats, helmets, etc.).

However, I wouldn't chalk up everything to political correctness. What the military uses these days, apart from being black or some drab color, is every bit as much a "space gun" as a biathlon rifle.:)

http://www.armytimes.com/xml/news/2007/06/marine_m4_carbine_070625/mt_iraqm4_800_070625.JPG

Free2game
March 2, 2010, 03:43 PM
The big problem is that in a lot of these countries anything bigger than a .22 is pretty much illegal then the ammo cost issue. That and it allows spectators to stand around and watch without having to have hearing protection.

devildog32713
March 2, 2010, 03:49 PM
M4's are not a "space gun", just how OLD are you?

JWF III
March 2, 2010, 03:51 PM
Quote:
Skiing and shooting

BEST JOB IN THE UNIVERSE

I couldn't agree more



If it was only warmer.

How about water skiing and skeet shooting? (:eek:Shooting while still on the move.:eek:) Now there's a sport for 2012.

Well maybe it'll make the Redneck Games.:neener:

Wyman

ArmedBear
March 2, 2010, 03:58 PM
I was responding to Shung's post above about "military weapons" being used in the past, compared to the "space guns" used now.

The M4 has various grip options, a collapsible stock, a scope with a fiberoptic and tritium reticle, rails everywhere for convenient accessorizing, basically all sorts of features that don't look "traditional", but contribute to its function. The Biathlon rifles are exactly the same: built to be adjustable and optimized for their purpose.

The "military" rifles that were once used were wood-stocked rifles that bear less resemblance to modern military weapons than biathlon rifles do.

How old are you, anyway?:rolleyes: Or are you just short on reading comprehension?

ny32182
March 2, 2010, 04:53 PM
The Olympic rifle is a piece of sporting equipment built for that purpose... and the military rifle is a piece of fighting equipment, built for that purpose. Important to note: those purposes are not the same.

"Is the USA logo allowed?" Well... duurrrr.. it will be carried by an athlete representing the USA, with "USA" stamped in 80 different places on his gear. What do you think? :scrutiny:

ArmedBear
March 2, 2010, 04:55 PM
The Olympic rifle is a piece of sporting equipment built for that purpose... and the military rifle is a piece of fighting equipment, build for that purpose. Important to note: those purposes are not the same.

Exactly true.

And each has evolved a lot in the past 86 years, to better fulfill those purposes.

skiking
March 2, 2010, 05:04 PM
I was amazed when I got my Anschutz 1813 supermatch, how many of the newer rifles like the 2013 and the 1913s were aluminum stocks. Those are goofy looking rifles.

Shung
March 2, 2010, 05:24 PM
exept that biathlon should have remained a "military discipline" , even in a competition, but not become a "sport"...

that's how I see it.

flyinrob
March 2, 2010, 09:58 PM
No sport can stay entirely true to the original discipline. Some competitor will always be looking for an edge. The envelope is pushed further and further and the game changes.

Hey, any training/competition is a compromise. You will never completely simulate the real thing. Take what you can get.

toivo
March 2, 2010, 10:20 PM
The big problem is that in a lot of these countries anything bigger than a .22 is pretty much illegal then the ammo cost issue. That and it allows spectators to stand around and watch without having to have hearing protection.

Another factor is the amount of space necessary. Adding a range for centerfire rifles to a ski course requires a fairly large piece of real estate.

pikid89
March 2, 2010, 10:33 PM
i think that the athletes should use whatever the issue rifle is in their respective country, as issued to a run of the mill infantry soldier

toivo
March 2, 2010, 11:02 PM
i think that the athletes should use whatever the issue rifle is in their respective country, as issued to a run of the mill infantry soldier

That's how it used to be. They switched to .22LR in (I think) 1978.

Bart B.
March 2, 2010, 11:15 PM
The reasons the Olympic committees decided in 1976 to limit rifles to .22 rimfire is because of space/land requirements for center fire rifles.

They used to shoot centerfire rifles in both biathlon and free rifle, both at 300 meters. .22 rimfire was limited to 50 meters for rifle. But so many countries wanted to get on this bandwagon but couldn't because of the 4 mile safety zone required behind center fire rifle ranges. So the switched to rimfire 22's at 50 meters.

The only politically correct thing the international shooting sports did was change the name and targets in the old "running boar" game. Animal rights groups got the IOC to change the target from a really good picture of a running boar with all four feet in the air with bullseye scoring rings centered on a heart shot to a standard round black bullseye. Then the name of this game was changed to "moving target."

gym
March 2, 2010, 11:41 PM
Is that a Kel-tec, lol

five.five-six
March 3, 2010, 12:27 AM
"USA" and "Support the Troops" are miles apart.
I beg to differ

B24
March 3, 2010, 12:58 AM
Ha ha ha... didn't know what to expect on your youtube link... great fun!

Regarding the Olympics: I'm most impressed with events that have a practical aspect to them and the biathlon wins that hands-down: cross-country ski skill and the fitness to do it, while also able to shoulder a weapon quickly and steady breathing to get off 5 quick/accurate shots. (Try it before you make fun of it just cause they use .22)

nelsonal
March 3, 2010, 01:46 AM
I shot smallbore and air rifle in college. The guns are heavier but similar to those used in biathalon. Ours were mostly made by Anshutz and Walther. Ours were older (we were a poor college team, so we had standard bolt actions and wood thumbhole stocks. The stocks were very similar to the Duragonov (the designer was an olympic shooter).

The sights were an aperature rear sight (pinhole) and a clear disc with a hole cut to match the size of the black dot (with a 45 degree cut to create a grey circle around the target). The aperature allows you to focus on both near and far. But provides no optical magnification.

http://www.marplerifleandpistolclub.org.uk/pictures/sight01.jpg
There's a nice example of the sight picture. The outer ring is created by the angled cut, and the dot is the target. Looking rather than using a camera results in a contrast between the two. These allow you to keep a precise angle on the gun (the horizontal line in the front sight).
Biathalon guns must weigh something like 4.3 kg. Ours were tack drivers (the 10 ring was .2 mm for air and ~2 mm for smallbore and the guns would shoot 10s all day from a rest). It's embarassing to know that every single flier (anything more than a cm out) was totally your fault.

We'd shoot about 150 small bore rounds 2x per week and I don't know how many air rounds for about 10 hours per week.

In biathalon the limiting factor is much more being a fast skiier (or runner in sumer biathalon). While the shooting isn't easy, it's not hard enough to allow great shooters but good runners to be competitive. If you're an also ran to make the olypmics in skiing or marathon, and are interested in learning to shoot, you could be a champion biathalete.

Bart B.
March 3, 2010, 09:41 AM
B24 comments:Regarding the Olympics: I'm most impressed with events that have a practical aspect to them and the biathlon wins that hands-down: cross-country ski skill and the fitness to do it, while also able to shoulder a weapon quickly and steady breathing to get off 5 quick/accurate shots. (Try it before you make fun of it just cause they use .22) How 'bout the rapid fire pistol events in the summer games? They shoot .22 shorts in vented barrels to reduce recoil in three stages at a 25 meter targets with 5 shots in each of 8, 6 and 4 second times. 10-ring's about 4 inches diameter.

Mike OTDP
March 3, 2010, 12:33 PM
Actually, that got changed about five years ago. Now you get to use .22LR in an unported barrel.

It's a lot harder than it looks. You raise the pistol up, shoot one shot on each target. Iron sights. Shooting man-style, with one hand.

Justin
March 3, 2010, 12:44 PM
i think that the athletes should use whatever the issue rifle is in their respective country, as issued to a run of the mill infantry soldier

I totally agree. I also think that Formula 1 drivers should have to drive minivans and commuter cars, since that's what the majority of people use.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=29698&d=1128794076

DaleA
March 3, 2010, 12:49 PM
Nice post Nelsonal.

Did you do the photo yourself?

I remember .22 target shooting when there was still a competition between the Winchester 52 and the Anschutz 54.

Our YMCA team had Remington 40X rifles with Redfield Olympic sights that were obtained IIRC from the DCM program.

We switched to the tinted transparent front disk sight when one of our team members read an article in the American Rifleman about the superiority of those sights. I think the Rifleman article was based on extensive research done by a Russian shooting coach.

The trigger pull was superb although we could only turn them down to three pounds, no lower for our level of competition.

One of our coaches shot senior competition with an Anschutz that had a double set trigger turned down to two ounces with a Unertil 20x scope. Shooting was done at 50 feet.

Everybody should get a chance to shoot one of these uber accurate arms. I wish I could have shot an Olympic level pistol either a .22 or air pistol, it would have been fun.

SSN Vet
March 3, 2010, 01:06 PM
Oh no... it looks like an "assault rifle"

or an ERR... (evil red rifle)

depending on your preference

ArmedBear
March 3, 2010, 01:08 PM
The point of the sport is being able to go at race pace on skis, then hit 5 steel plates from a position, then go again, lather rinse, repeat.

A .22 tests that skill just as well as any caliber would. There are few enough practice venues for the sport, anyway, especially here in the US, and there's no reason whatsoever to use a centerfire for steel plate shooting with iron sights.

Note that the skiers have to carry all their ammo during the race, also.

Finally, the skiing technique they all now use was not known prior to 1978. Lots has changed, and nobody's complaining.

Actually, I'm about to head out and practice said skiing style in a few minutes.:)

nelsonal
March 3, 2010, 07:16 PM
DaleA thanks, but no the picture was an image search. I haven't touched a target rifle since college. It was a blast, but was too expensive for my just starting out life. :)

B24
March 3, 2010, 11:32 PM
To Bart B.

I was limiting my scope to just the Winter Olympics... but what you described... I didn't even know THAT existed! I like it. Now... just add in some true "athleticism" and I'm a fan. I don't think the Olympics (citius, altius, fortius) should include skill only activities.

Thanks for info though... I'll keep an eye out come 2012 and the Summer Olympics.

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