[George Hill]

ALL THR LEOS... Please follow this link and read it slowly... twice:
http://64.177.53.248/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000401.html

If you are using one of these vests... Please swap NOW!

Numerous other credible scientific researchers have also come out with evidence that Zylon suffers sufficient degradation through normal wear to cause as much as 30% loss of V50 values in as little as six months of wear!
This means that level IIA Zylon vests over six months old and Level II vests over a year old have about a 60% chance of being penetrated by any 9mm round.


Stay safe guys.

[4v50 Gary]

Rich Davis of Second Chance has a huge recall on them. Kudos to Davis who is an upstart guy (wierd joke teller though).

[George Hill]

He does? Great. I never heard of any of this until today.
I'm super pissed. It looks like Second Chance knew there was a problem but refused to address it. I'm glad they are addressing it now.

[Keyser Soze]

The recall is non existant at this point. Some agencies have threatened lawsuits and managed to get SC to replace their vests. If he was above the board several states attorney generals offices would not be looking into criminal prosecution.

Option 1 You can get a free set of aramid fiber panels you can put in with your Zylon panels. You will now be wearing vest which is unrated by the NIJ and of an unknown threat level.

Option 2 is you can buy a new Aramid fiber vest for a reduced price which isn't much reduced from what my dealer sells them for.

The final option offered is they will pro rate your existing Zylon vest even though it was faulty from the start and credit you towards the purchase of a new vest at full retail pricing.

SC will never get another dime out of me. I trusted their product and they let me down. My warranty says the will repair or replace any problem vest for free during the warranty period. It says nothing about pro-rating or buying another vest when their product is defective.

I would like to see Davis do the old shoot himself with a vest on trick like he used to, but this time wearing a Zylon vest.
:cuss:

[Preacherman]

See this thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?threadid=50504) in L&P, discussing the Justice Dept. investigation. It also contains links to some releases from Second Chance.

Keyser, with the greatest respect, I don't think Second Chance is to blame for this snafu. If you read their releases, they claim that they had NO information from the manufacturer of this fabric until last month (see here (http://www.secondchance.com/news.asp?action=article&newsID=41)), and that was only released by the manufacturer on the advice of their lawyers! I think that Richard Davis has earned the trust and respect of thousands by his work and conduct over many decades. I'm not going to start calling him a villain or charlatan based on this one incident alone. Sure, there are problems: but looking at the Second Chance Web site (see here (http://www.secondchance.com/home.asp)), I think they're doing the best they can. Let's give 'em some time to sort this out, OK?

[Keyser Soze]

Preacherman,

Take a look at the link George posted. Read the information there. After reading the summary go and look through the threads over the past couple years. SC has been aware of the problem for a long time. The manufacturer Toyobo has had information out on this very subject for a very long time. SC is just trying to put their own spin on things at this point to save their company and profits since an officer died from a penetration on a Zylon vest from a round it should have easily stopped.

[BluesBear]

Buddy of mine on the Seattle PD was given a brand new Second Chance non-zylon vest about THREE months ago to replace his recalled Zylon vest.

[Preacherman]

Keyser, SC claims bluntly:In the more than 30 years that Second Chance has been manufacturing soft, concealable body armor, no vest has ever failed to stop a round it was designed to stop.Are they lying? Was the officer who was shot wearing a Second Chance vest? Was it rated for the round that hit him?

Please understand that I'm not dissing you, or your opinion - I really do want to know. If SC is spouting a line of CYA garbage, I shall be horrified, as it's a company I've known and trusted for many years. I have seen many claims that they've tried to cover this up, but I haven't seen any hard evidence - i.e. internal SC documentation, etc. - that would stand up in court. I also don't see Richard Davis doing this. Is he still running things at SC, or has someone else taken the reins?

I have read the thread George posted, and I'll spend some time reading the links posted there. I shall be interested to see how many of them contain hard evidence, and not just speculation or allegations.

[Keyser Soze]

Yes, Yes, Yes!!

Please read and glean [sic] as much info as you can from that forum. I have been an SC backer for years and recomended it to my cohorts. I always thought the most of them. Heck my dad wore them when they first hit the market.

Let me tell you it's not a nice feeling to find out the vest you have been wearing for the last few years is nothing more than a very expensive sweater. I believe Davis is now chairman and some other guy is president.

All the info you need is on the other web site. If I had more time tonight I would look up all the answers for you.

If they just replaced the vest when they realized there was potential for tradgedy and admitted there has been a problem they would have eliminated IMO 99% of the problems.

Also take a look at this press release from U.S. Armor

http://www.usarmor.com/zylonnews.htm

Be safe,

KS

[Preacherman]

Well, Keyser and others, I just spent an hour or so reading through all the links on the thread George posted above. Very sobering indeed...

My take on this is twofold. Yes, I now believe that Second Chance (and others) did not respond quickly or adequately to the initial reports of problems with Zylon. Yes, I do believe that they should be held accountable for this negligence (which may amount to criminal negligence - that remains to be proved in court).

As to how much Richard Davis himself knew: this is an open question. I understand he hasn't been involved in the day-by-day management of Second Chance for some time now. I have no idea when he first became aware of the problems, or how much say he had in addressing them. I hope and pray that he did not abandon the standards and principles for which he has been justly renowned for so many years. If he did so, it would be a tragedy.

I guess now we wait and see what comes out in the legal wash... :(

[gunsmith]

2nd chance that I got last Jan,I wear it
3 or 4 days a week (armed courier)
should I ask for a replacement?
I bought it myself,I really don't have the $$ right now.
if they are recalled do I pay for a new one?

[George Hill]

I'd call them and demand a replacement or a refund, or you'll see them in court.

[cameroneod]

Letter from the CEO of Armor Holdings (http://www.armorholdings.com/pdf/LetterToCustomers.pdf)

I know a lot of guys are getting the new "Zero G" vests because of the comfort factor. Iv worn my vest for quite a while now, and I really like it but all the bad press is making me think about switching back to my old one. Mine is new, so we'll have to see how things work out.

[Keyser Soze]

Take a look at this thread. The manufacturer of Zylon submits 40 pages of documents/correspondence to the DOJ to show they warned vest manufacturers of Zylon if used for body armor.

http://64.177.53.248/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000492.html


KS