[cuchulainn]

from the Moline Dispatch

http://www.qconline.com/archives/qco/sections.cgi?prcss=display&id=174459November 15, 2003 12:17 AM

Law-enforcement memorial group defends semi-automatic rifle raffle
By Tory Brecht , Staff writer

Despite claims to the contrary, there is nothing ironic, unusual or immoral about raffling off a semi-automatic rifle to raise money for a police memorial, say members of the committee conducting the raffle.

Gene Karzin, president of the Quad Cities Law Enforcement Memorial Committee, said the fundraiser is aimed primarily at fellow police officers who might like to have a rifle for use on duty.

The gun in question is a CAR UTE Elite, a .223-caliber semi-automatic rifle manufactured by Rock River Arms Inc. of Colona. The military-style weapon has been called an ``assault rifle'' by gun-control advocates and in a broadcast-media report aired Wednesday.

That's stretching the facts, said Det. Karzin, a member of the Rock Island Police Department.

``It's not what they're portraying it as,'' he said. ``It's a legal weapon you can buy at any gun store in the Quad-Cities. It is not fully automatic. We couldn't raffle off a banned weapon, or I'd have to put myself in jail.''

Tom Mannard, executive director of the Chicago-based Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence, said guns like the CAR UTE Elite may not be on the banned list, but they basically are cloned replicas of assault rifles that are, like the Colt AR-15.

Mr. Mannard said the fact that it is being raffled off to help fund a memorial dedicated to officers killed in the line of duty is disturbing.

``To raffle off a gun used, more often than not, to kill innocent people, and particularly law-enforcement officers, is pretty misguided,'' he said. ``To raise money for a memorial is wonderful, but you'd hate to see an officer's name go up on that memorial because they're killed by an AR-15 or a similar weapon.''

That's highly unlikely, said Det. Karzin.

``Only one officer in the last 44 years has been killed by a weapon of this sort in the state of Illinois,'' he said.

Although members of the public can buy one of the $5 raffle tickets -- proceeds of which will help fund landscaping, a base, lights and a wall behind the officers memorial statue outside the justice center in Rock Island -- most ticket buyers are fellow cops, Det. Karzin said.

Ninety-five to 99 percent of the tickets sold thus far have gone to fellow officers, he said. To win the gun, a ticketholder must produce a valid firearms identification card, which is regulated by the state and prohibits convicted felons, those convicted of domestic battery and other violent crimes, and the mentally ill from owning guns, Det. Karzin said.

``I don't find it ironic at all,'' he said of the raffle. ``This gun is not going to kill anybody. We'll follow the letter of the law in whoever we give it to.''

John Johnson, executive director of Iowans for the Prevention of Gun Violence, said he was surprised to learn of the raffle one day after visiting the Quad-Cities to lobby for tighter assault-weapon restrictions.

``It's almost more than ironic that police officers would be auctioning off a weapon that is used in a disproportionate number of officer shootings,'' he said. ``One out of five officers killed by guns are killed by assault weapons, even though they make up less than 5 percent of all guns.''

Mr. Johnson said he supports the raffle. He said Iowans for the Prevention of Gun Violence and the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence have jointly offered to give the fundraising committee a hunting rifle or shotgun of equal value to the CAR UTE Elite to be raffled off instead.

Det. Karzin said the committee is not interested in that offer.

Rock Island County Sheriff Mike Grchan called the controversy much ado about nothing.

``At every law-enforcement convention I go to, be it the FBI or state police or whatever, they always have a firearm auction,'' he said. ``Those are the tools of the business.''


Staff writer Tory Brecht can be reached at (309) 786-6441, ext. 271, or by e-mail at toryb@qconline.com.

[tcsd1236]

Raffle Here:

http://www.qcpolicememorial.com/QCPoliceMemorial.html

[geekWithA.45]

I'm joyed to see our LEO brethren tweak the nose of the gun bigots!

[DonP]

Everyone knows that all police organizations hate all guns in citizens hands, especially EBR.

I know it's true because Sara Brady and Ton Diaz told me so.

I gotta see if I can me one of them raffle tickets!

Ha!

Don P.

[Don Gwinn]

``To raffle off a gun used, more often than not, to kill innocent people, and particularly law-enforcement officers, is pretty misguided,'' he said.
Proof, dummy?
That would mean that 51% of the times an "assault rifle" is used, someone is attempting murder. Attempted murder with an assault rifle is thus at least as common as target practice, competition, and plinking. Right.

I do believe I could throw ten bucks their way.

[Carlos Cabeza]

It's good to hear that not everyone in Illinois is a hoplophobe.
I'll second the nose thumbing comment .45geek.:cool:

[cslinger]

If you can buy a ticket from these guys. Positive reinforcement, positive reinforcement.

[DonP]

When I get some details back from them I'll post it.

I asked how we can participate via e-mail or phone via credit card.

Don P.

[Jeff White]

I've been telling you guys for a long time that most Illinois rank and file peace officers are pro RKBA....Can you hear me now :D

Jeff

[Standing Wolf]

Tom Mannard, executive director of the Chicago-based Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence, said guns like the CAR UTE Elite may not be on the banned list, but they basically are cloned replicas of assault rifles that are, like the Colt AR-15.

Wow! Is that guy a genius, or what?

[tcsd1236]

I just wrote a check and threw it in the mail, the old fashioned way.....its worth a stamp to ya, isn't it, folks?

[Dain Bramage]

"One out of five officers killed by guns are killed by assault weapons, even though they make up less than 5 percent of all guns.'' - VPC lies, lies, lies.

The first part is from an FBI statistic that said 20% of all officers killed by firearms are killed by long guns. It doesn't differentiate types, from shotguns to rifles, bolt actions to semi-autos. Just like what the definition of 'is' is, I guess the VPC can call anything an assault weapon.

The second, 5% part probably just counts the AWB definition of 'assault weapon', and not SKS's, thumb-hole stock AK's or any other long guns. Maximise the first number and minimise the second; it's the classic 'big lie'.

"This gun is not going to kill anybody". - Now that's more like it.

The whole thing reminds me of the Dilbert cartoon where the pointy-haired boss is appalled to hear that 40% of sick days were being taken on Mondays and Fridays. :D

[LiquidTension]

That "one in five" bit angers me because it's so obviously a lie. I am glad that the LEOs in question have more brains than the idjit that the quote came from. It's good to see some pro RKBA folks getting some words in print at any rate....

[cslinger]

Just got an email back from them. They seem to be surprised at the outside support they are getting. I am waiting to find out if there is any other way to send in the $5.00.

This is a perfect way to make positive waves. Gun group helps local PD, Gun Nuts to the rescue, whatever.

Chris

[jimpeel]

To win the gun, a ticketholder must produce a valid firearms identification card, which is regulated by the state and prohibits convicted felons, those convicted of domestic battery and other violent crimes, and the mentally ill from owning guns, Det. Karzin said. We don't have those here in NE. Does that mean I'm not eligible to win?

[cslinger]

Anybody can enter. The gun will be transferred from Rock River to your local FFL.

Here is the email reply I got.
Thank you for contacting me about the QC Law
Enforcement Officers Memorial ticket raffle. We are
VERY glad for your support in this matter. As you
know, we have not had the best of plublicity in this
very legal and, we feel, worthwhile event.

The winner will take possession through a transfer
with Rock River Arms in Colona IL (The manufacturer).
In reference to purchasing tickets for this rifle,
they are $5 each. You can send payment to:

QC Law Enforcement Officers Memorial
Post Office Box 4444
Rock Island, Il 61204

Please include you name, address and phone number so
that I can fill out the ticket stub for the drawing.
After that I will send you the other stub from the
ticket(s) for your records.

Thanks again for you assistance and support in this
matter.

[Zach S]

Hehe, I'll buy a few tickets.

[TheeBadOne]

Those damn cops! It's always the same thing ^%$#@*&! Opps, hey wait a minute, it's a positive article! ;)

[greyhound]

The really cool thing about this is that they KNEW it was going to stir up a buncha trouble and did it anyway.

Around here (Carroll County - kinda outer ring suburb/somewhat rural) a group raffled off a hunting rifle and the usual suspects went nuts.

And as far as the "1 in 5" goes, I believe I have read here they included any firearm with a 10+ round mag (i.e. a Glock pistol with a 15 round mag is an "assault weapon").

[TheOtherOne]

The winner will take possession through a transfer
with Rock River Arms in Colona IL (The manufacturer).
In reference to purchasing tickets for this rifle,
they are $5 each. You can send payment to:

QC Law Enforcement Officers Memorial
Post Office Box 4444
Rock Island, Il 61204

Please include you name, address and phone number so
that I can fill out the ticket stub for the drawing.
After that I will send you the other stub from the
ticket(s) for your records.Cool. I guess that means they will sale tickets out of state. At $5 even I can buy a couple to support them. :)

[TheOtherOne]

Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence to the rescue!

Gun Violence Prevention Groups Offer to Replace Post-Ban Assault Weapon Raffle Prize with Legitimate Hunting Gun for Quad Cities Officers Memorial (http://www.ichv.org/pressreleases.htm)

:barf:

[jimpeel]

So let me get this straight. They are willing to replace what they term an "assault rifle" with what they otherwise term a "sniper rifle". Do I have that about right?

[Dorian]

To raffle off a gun used, more often than not, to kill innocent people, and particularly law-enforcement officers, is pretty misguided

:barf:

That's highly unlikely, said Det. Karzin.

``Only one officer in the last 44 years has been killed by a weapon of this sort in the state of Illinois,'' he said.

pwned!

``It's almost more than ironic that police officers would be auctioning off a weapon that is used in a disproportionate number of officer shootings,'' he said. ``One out of five officers killed by guns are killed by assault weapons, even though they make up less than 5 percent of all guns.''

what a LOAD OF CRAP(i had to rewrite that whole statment because of the offensive nature of my words too!)

The officer JUST said that ONE officer in the last FOURTY FOUR years has died from a weapon like this. Way to LIE THROUGH YOUR TEETH.

p.s. I wish foul language was allowed on this site, cause I had quite a bit to use in this post.

[tcsd1236]

The anti's have a "contact us" area on their website; I suggest you use it. I did.

[jimpeel]

Just sent this to their website at: http://www.ichv.org/ContactUs.htm

I would never have heard of the rifle raffle the Quad Cities Law Enforcement Memorial Committee is holding without your assistance. Your publicising this event has made it possible for me to participate in the raffle and I thank you for doing that for me. I will be mailing a check and an SASE to them today.

Thank you again for bringing this to my attention.

Sincerely,

Jim Peel
Kimball, NE

[jimpeel]

By the way, guys, if you are sending a check for a ticket you should also include a Self Addressed Stamped Envalope as well. That is $.37, plus the cost of an envelope, more that they will have to fund the memorial.

[TheOtherOne]

Just resurrecting this thread. They've responded to the gun control groups and are actually considering the offer of changing the type of gun. :barf: Hopefully they'll hold their ground, but it doesn't sound good from the press release:

http://www.qcpolicememorial.com/RaffleInformation.html

The Quad Cities Law Enforcement Officers Memorial is a not for profit organization dedicated to establishing a fitting and honorable memorial to those Quad Cities Area law enforcement officers killed in the line of duty. As police officers, we would not do anything that would compromise the safety of law enforcement officers, or the public. As police officers, we can understand both sides of the gun control argument and wish to remain neutral in this debate.

We have had great response to this raffle and foresaw it as a way to raise funds to help establish this memorial. The firearm in question is not illegal in the United States or the State of Illinois. Further, there are current State and Federal laws on the book to ensure that the person who would take possesion of this firearm is a responsible gun owner.

The Committee has spoken and will meet in the near future to discuss the offer made by the Iowan's Against Gun Violence and the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence. This is a decision that must be made by the entire Board. It is further my intent to speak with Mr. Thom Mannard, Director of the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence, and Mr. John Johnson, Director of the Iowan's for the Prevention of Gun Violence, prior to this meeting.

In closing, we would like to state that we sympathize with Mr. Bryan Miller of the Iowan's Against Gun Violence for the loss of his brother who was an FBI agent killed in 1993, as well as all officers killed in the line of duty. The intent of this memorial is to honor these officers, and as such we are extremely disheartened that this controversy is occurring and taking away from our purpose.

[jimpeel]

I consider the raffle ticket I received in the mail to be a contractual agreement between me and the QCLEOM organizers. It states clearly on the face of the ticket that the firearm to be given away is an AR-15 Elite Carute - .223 Cal. There is no wording on the face of the ticket that there will be any substitution. If I win this contest, I will push this to the limits.

[jimpeel]

As I am sure you are aware, many non profit organizations struggle to raise funds. We as a group have been successful in raising money to pay for this worthy cause, but unfortunately we are still quite a way from paying for this memorial. Raffles have long been a great way to raise money and we have used them in the past. One of the major obstacles in raffles is finding items that people find attractive enough to pay for an opportunity to win. We were able to obtain this firearm through a local business and felt that it was an item that had potential to help raise a substantial amount of money for this cause, while supporting a local small business.

At the time the raffle began, members of thie committee, who are law enforcement officers, began selling tickets. After reviewing the early ticket sales the overwhelming amount of sales were to other police officers or those closely involved in the criminal justice system such as lawyers and judges. Further, we currently have local law enforcement agencies that allow sworn police officers to carry a personally owned firearm such as this in the performance of their duties. It was our hope that this firearm would be used in that capacity for the protection of the police officer and our community. Since this controversy began, and word has spread throughout the internet, our ticket sales have dramatically increased and our hopes of a local police officer winning the raffle are beginning to fade. Even still, a vast majority of people purchasing tickets out of this area are police officers from other jurisdictions. We have had police officers from New York, Alabama, Florida, Missouri, Mississippi, Arizona, California, Tennessee, Kentucky as well as many other states purchasing tickets.

On Tuesday November 25, 2003 the Executive Board of the Quad Cities Law Enforcement Officers Memorial, along with several surviving family members of officers killed in the line of duty, met on this issue. In the past our meetings have been upbeat and, I feel, a form of healing for these family members. This meeting took on a different atmosphere. At this meeting I could see the pain in the eyes of the surviving family members at the controversy that this fundraiser appears to have caused. One of the family members, nearly in tears, stated her disappointment by stating "You try to do something good, and right, and it get's turned around on you".

Throughout this meeting, both sides of the issue were explored and debated. In the end, the Board decided that they did not want their decision on this raffle to reflect any one opinion of gun control. We further did not want to be used as a sounding board for either side of the issue, we strictly want to continue to forge forward in establishing this memorial. The Board, and surviving family members therefore decided that the raffle, as initially planned, was completely legal and began with good intent so it should continue.

The Board did however express concern for the controversy created over this project and decided that a second raffle, which tickets had already been printed and was scheduled to begin immediately after the conclusion of this first raffle, would not be conducted. The second raffle prize consisted of an identical firearm (a Rock River Arms CAR UTE Elite) which had already been purchased. The Board will make a determination at a later date as to this firearm. I can assure you that when the firearm is distributed, it will be placed into the hands of a law enforcement officer from the Quad Cities Area.

This decision was not an easy one for the Board or family members to make. The Board weighed several issues and concerns; however in the end they came up with what it felt to be an appropriate decision.

In closing I would like to take this opportunity to express my very deepest heartfelt apology to the surviving family members who assisted in this decision. After losing a loved one before their time, and after stressing to them that through this memorial the Quad Cities will not forget their sacrifices, this controversy appears to have caused additional pain on them and for that I am deaply sorry.

K. Gene Karzin
Chairman,
Quad Cities Law Enforcement Officers Memorial. So with a few tears and doe eyes the antis win again. At least they are adhering to the original raffle contract and not doing a squat-n-pee. If there hadn't been so many tickets sold and the threat (I assume being the impetus for this decision) of a lawsuit for breach of contract, they likely would have done the same with the first raffle.

It does make me wonder if they are not now furiously going through the entries throwing out the out-of-state entries to make sure the antis are appeased with the result of the drawing.

We'll see what happens on February 28; but I won't be at all surprised that the winner will be a Quad Cities local police officer who is far more trustworthy ands responsible with this type of firearm than any of us, here, would be.

[CZ 75 BD]

about how many chances were sold and the proportion of local LEO to out of state citizens. I bought 2, numbered in the mid 500's, but that is not a certain indicator of the sales volume. Interesting developments.

[tcsd1236]

I bought two tickets.

[jimpeel]

I bought one #751. If that is the true number of entries, the rifle is worth at least $3,755 to the effort.

[jimpeel]

12 days and counting.

[CZ 75 BD]

going to be a great birthday present for me!:D :D