Opinions on Brass Frame Remington 1858 Buffalo 12" revolver


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zaboomafoozarg
February 20, 2010, 11:45 PM
Anyone own one of these Remington 12" Buffalo .44 caliber revolvers in brass frame?

Do you have any problems with the brass frame being too weak for this pistol? And how would you say the accuracy compares to, say, a 10" .50 cal single shot?

I had originally planned to purchase a single shot Kentucky in kit form, but I went to cabelas today and felt one of these and it felt quite nice :D So that changes everything, and now I just can't decide!! But either way I'm going to buy something next week.

I also read that you can use shot in a BP revolver vs. a single shot if need be so that would be an added bonus.


Any input on buying this gun in complete assembled form vs. buying it in kit form too would be appreciated. I'm going to get a kit if I go with the single shot but I don't know if revolver kits are much more difficult or not.


Thanks for the helpfulness as always, guys. ;)

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SixShootinSam
February 21, 2010, 12:10 AM
All I can recommend is stay away from the brass frames. You will probably regret getting it over a steel frame down the road. Sure it costs a bit more, but you also get to have the knowledge that its a strong piece of hardware and good for a long long time.

arcticap
February 21, 2010, 12:32 AM
Buying a brass verses steel frame revolver largely depends on whether you'll want to enjoy shooting stout loads with it once in a while.
It's possible that the brass frame Remington can develop some looseness over time where the cylinder pin mates with the frame simply because the brass holes in the frame can wear more easily.
The longer barrel and target sights of the Buffalo revolver are only slightly more accurate than the steel version with an 8 inch barrel. And the steel frame target model Remington is regularly offered at a sale price at Cabela's. So you would be giving up the ability to shoot stout loads at longer distances for very little gain in accuracy and cost benefit.
The single shot pistol is another type of beast. It can shoot an even wider range of projectiles, more potent loads than either revolver and it's not as difficult to clean or maintain. But then it's not a repeater.
The small shot loads that the revolvers are able to shoot are by and large only very short range snake loads. :)

txapacheguy
February 21, 2010, 12:50 AM
I have three brass frame 1851 Navy replicas... I love all three of them and shoot them whenever I have the chance, but my Pietta 1858 STEEL framed replica is a much better gun.

If you check Cabela's website continually for a few months, you can probably find a nice '58 or 1860 steel frame replica for the same price or less what they wanted at the retail store for that Buffalo Brass pistol. Right now the basic 1858 replica is the same price as the Buffalo Brass model. A revolver with the target sights, the model I own, will run you a few dollars more.

I have to agree with you though about the look of the Buffalo Brass pistol with the ridiculously long barrel. I like it too and almost bought one awhile back!!!

Hawkeye748
February 21, 2010, 01:00 AM
Not a fan of Brass frame guns. If this matters to you, Historically, this gun didn't exist.

madcratebuilder
February 21, 2010, 09:29 AM
If you use the appropriate loads with a brass frame revolver you should have no problems.
This is a nickle plated brass frame Buffalo 58, been shooting .44 loads for thirteen years.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/58buf01.jpg


This Spiller&Burr has been shooting .36 loads for thirty plus years and just starting to get a witness mark on the recoil shield.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/spillerburr01.jpg

I have an old Uberti G&G brasser from the sixties that is still tight and one of the newer Pietta .44 navies brassers that has digested several hundred rounds with no sign of wear.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/brass2.jpg

There are open top and top strap brass frame revolvers from the 1860's that are still in shootable condition.

If you keep your powder charge at or under half the caliber size you well be fine. If you go above those levels all bets are off.

oldpuppymax
February 21, 2010, 03:50 PM
I've been shooting my brass framed Cabelas cheapie for some time now and as long as you keep the load at 20 grains or so, you'll get plenty of wear from it.

Al LaVodka
February 21, 2010, 10:08 PM
Bought one years ago, put it in a big BP loading stand as art, and never shot it and it has never left the house other than on various Remington "variation" displays as a conversation piece. Brass is generally fine but not up to the highest loads for long I believe. I didn't know these were still made but some might want one due to hunting regs in their area...
Al

Gatofeo
February 21, 2010, 11:37 PM
Generally speaking, the brass-framed revolvers are not as finely made or finished as their steel-framed counterparts. They're made cheaper, cranked out quickly.
It's the difference between the cheapest Chevy pickup and the high-end model. Both are pickups, but the high-end has the attention to detail that the other lacks.

Foto Joe
February 23, 2010, 10:20 AM
Although some of the brass frame replica calibers out there didn't exist in the 19th century, it's more a part of marketing than historical accuracy.

Having said that: If you ask steel frame shooters you're gonna hear that brass is worthless regardless of historical accuracy. If you ask someone who shoots and likes their Confederate Navy (even if they didn't make them in .44 back then) like me you'll get a different answer.

It's to each his own. I've been trying to wear out my Confederate Navy since Christmas without any luck. I'm quite sure that this gun will NEVER see 5k rounds through it without wearing out but then again guns of the 19th century weren't designed to shoot 5,000 rounds through them either!!

Shooting brass guns is more about the history of why they were made that way in the first place. They were not near as powerful as steel could be but...wounding an enemy in battle was and is far more preferable to killing them. A wounded soldier takes at least two others out of the fight to care for him.

As for me, I WILL be adding more brass to my family eventually but I will go for a historically accurate caliber next time. Big holes in the end of the barrel are cool but...realistically the thirty-ish calibers were extremely popular with the public and in my view actually more unique.

Joe

MCgunner
February 23, 2010, 07:38 PM
I wore out a brass .44 navy in 6 years and not that much shooting. I will go with a brass frame if it has a top strap and shoot light stuff in it. That Navy might still be shooting in .36 caliber and except for the fact that the only way I knew to load it was fill the hole full of FFFG and top it with a 220 Lee conical. :rolleyes: I was young and it was my first BP. I was in college and it was 50 bucks. :D

pohill
February 23, 2010, 07:51 PM
Brass can be good, if you treat it well.

High Standard Griswold & Gunnison and an unknown Spiller & Burr.
The High Standard is top quality.
The Spiller & Burr is old.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/CopyofDSCF5230.jpg

And let's not forget the A.S.T.C. HERO. It's brass under zinc. I actually fired this off a few weeks ago, using about 7 grs of BP and an O buckshot ball.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/IMG_0032.jpg

BHP FAN
February 26, 2010, 06:29 PM
OK,I can't stand it any longer.My first handgun of any type was a brass framed Navy Sheriff's model .36,bough at a Coast to Coast hardware store in Healdsburg California in 1974 and built by me and my dad.I had no clue about how much powder to put in the thing,and back in those days,the kits came with ZERO information.I just filled the cylinder up with 3f to the gunnels,and crammed some .375 round balls down on top.Some of the balls still interfered with the cylinder turning,so I cut the tops of the balls off with my knife.pulled the trigger,and the thing blew up in my hand.no lube over the balls,ill fitting caps...I'd experienced my first chain fire.Back to the drawing board.I picked up the barrel and cylinder,went home,and had my dad craft me a new wedge.Never did find the old one .settled down to a 20 grain charge,useing a .38 S&W case for a measure.Used Crisco as a lube,and never had another chain fire. I shot the crud out of that thing for fifteen years,before it started to strech.I then converted it to.38 S&W cartridge,and shot it for another coupla years before it was stolen. my point is,yes they'll stretch,but my gawd people,they made it through four years of the worst war this nation ever saw,and you don't think they'll stand up to a little week end shooting?And brassers are made cheap and quick? Really? You think Alessandro Pietta has his boys make the brass framed guns on his assembly lines any different than his steel framed ones? I don't.

zaboomafoozarg
February 26, 2010, 07:38 PM
BHP FAN, thanks for the honest input

Im not sure, and I dont mean to insult anyone, but i get the feeling from reading many different threads about this, that people who insist steel frames are the only way to go are kind of like the people who insist on buying only new cars.

Clearly I would not expect a pistol to last forever. But I just wanted to know how bad the stretching issue is. for example, if a pistol costs $250 and then stretches at 500 shots.. well heck, that's 50 cents per shot and not a good deal at all.

I have one question: is it possible to buy replacement brass frames for brass framed revolvers? in case your current one stretches out?

BHP FAN
February 26, 2010, 08:10 PM
I have heard that VTI carries the frames for Piettas, but I don't see them on their site..perhaps if you call them?
A friend of mine was writeing an article for one of the gun magazines,and the article was about brass frame durability.To this end, he bought two Cabela's Pietta .44 round barrel ''Navy''s [More of a Tucker and Sherrard, or Griswald and Gunnison, if you ask me,but you know the ones] and shot them every shooting outing for four years,with 20 gr 3f charges,and .454 round ball.He never did finish his article,because they never stretched.Oh well,he's got a nice brace of pistolas.

BHP FAN
February 26, 2010, 08:17 PM
In well over thirty years of black powder shooting, I HAVE seen TWO ''loose'' brass framed revolvers, one [I'm not proud to say] I abused,but it still worked even after being converted to .38 S&W,and one that was a manufacturing defect,an early 70's brass framed Navy that had too long of a slot in the arbor,or cylinder pin.That's it,in thirty + years.I won't say it's a myth,because it has happened, I'VE done it...but it is ''statistically insignificant''.

pohill
February 26, 2010, 08:17 PM
You need more than one revolver to shoot - that way, no gun gets overused. Does anyone on this forum own only one BP revolver? I kinda doubt it.
Brass if fine, if you don't abuse it. This is what the recoil shield of my Spiller & Burr looked like when I bought it -I still shoot it, but not alot.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/S4020010.jpg

DrLaw
February 26, 2010, 08:50 PM
Oh Madcratebuilder, you poor deluded fool! Don't you know that even now your brass-framed guns are as limp as an overcooked spaghetti noodle! They are literally melting in your hands.

:rolleyes:

This subject has been done to death, but I sense a newbie in the force, who has not yet learned the ways of the Jedi - or the search function.

Zaboom. Don't pour in powder to the end of the chamber and cram in a bullet and brass-framed guns will do fine. Steel can take the higher pressure beating but the amount of powder it takes to shoot accurately will not bother the guns.

The Doc is out now. :cool:

BHP FAN
February 26, 2010, 08:51 PM
Wow, Pohill. Still shoots too, I bet.well, of course, you just said so. Seriously, someone, Oyeboten, I think, [ no,it was madcratebuilder] said ''half the caliber'' as a powder charge.that was pretty good advice. Brass framed revolvers when used sensibly [not like I did] and loaded moderately , should last a lifetime.

zaboomafoozarg
February 26, 2010, 08:57 PM
Haha DrLaw, appreciate the advice. I am indeed a newbie but I have worn the search button out! :D The only reason I posted this was asking for input specifically on the Buffalo Remington.

the brass frame vs. steel thing just kind of went off on a rabbit trail. but its still good info

MCgunner
February 26, 2010, 08:59 PM
You need more than one revolver to shoot - that way, no gun gets overused. Does anyone on this forum own only one BP revolver? I kinda doubt it.
Brass if fine, if you don't abuse it. This is what the recoil shield of my Spiller & Burr looked like when I bought it -I still shoot it, but not alot.

Or, you can make sure you have an ROA in your collection. You won't wear it out in 3 lifetimes.

I bought my brass .31 because it was cheap and I had a ROA as a shooter, just WANTED it. It's a neat little gun in a proper caliber for its size (not a .44 caliber in a .36 frame like my Navy) and I can't really get carried away with the loads. I'm open to more brassers in the future and I'm glad to see there's love for them from guys that haven't abused theirs. Gives me faith that my gun was just abused by an ignorant boob.....ME. :D

BHP FAN
February 26, 2010, 09:26 PM
The Buffalo Remington is a good gun,accurate,but not historically accurate.It sure balances better than it looks like it would.

zaboomafoozarg
February 26, 2010, 09:31 PM
Yea the historic accuracy or lack thereof doesn't bother me. I just love how it looks. Granted I like the way the stainless steel one looks better, but I dont like the double price on the stainless!

I wonder if you can simply buy a steel frame conversion for a brass frame revolver... I should look into that


I think the looks of a revolver with a 12" barrel has some major appeal. and I handled one at Cabelas, it does certainly feel nice. Much lighter than the fullstock traditions kentucky single shot with the 10" barrel. But the kentucky also looks nice...

Buffalo revolver = more shots though... and able to use shot loads if really necessary, and paper cartridges.
Oh no. I think I'm talking myself into buying one here. lol.

zaboomafoozarg
February 26, 2010, 09:32 PM
Oh one more question, I hear that brass frame revolvers from kits are really rough. Is this true? I can get the Buffalo for $200 in kit form but 230 something assembled. As much as I would like to assemble a kit, I've just heard that revolver kits are exceedingly difficult compared to traditional muzzleloader kits

BHP FAN
February 26, 2010, 10:14 PM
It is in my opinion, very much worth the $30.00 to buy it already made. There was a fellow on here that had a taken a Spiller and Burr kit...[a rough cob,if ever I saw one,I've done two over the years,and I've sworn off ever buying a S&B kit, ever, ever again] and turned it into a work of art, really, but I bet he had a thousand dollars in man-hours into the thing, even if he'd only paid himself ten bucks an hour.

pohill
February 26, 2010, 10:34 PM
What is the price of the Buffalo revolver? I was looking at one in Maine today for $225 (used). Interesting gun.
Don't rule out the single shot Kentucky pistol. I have one (.44 caliber) and it's a heck of a shooter. Very accurate.
Like MCgunner said, the Ruger Old Army will never wear out. I think they're the best black powder revolver ever made. I'm not saying it's my favorite but they're built like a tank and pretty much trouble free.
I don't think you'll be a one gun owner for long.

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/082506ped1.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/CopyofColt017.jpg

zaboomafoozarg
February 26, 2010, 10:41 PM
It's $235 new on Dixiegunworks.com. Cheapest I can manage to find it new.

I've considered the kentucky long and hard but think I may want more than a single shot. Especially if I'm ever going to do anything more than target shoot with it.

I also want to find out more about this "Wyatt Earp" revolver from dixie, 12" barrel brass frame for $200. http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_92_187_189&products_id=3442

pohill
February 26, 2010, 10:54 PM
I think Wyatt Earp would chuckle to see that gun attached to his name.
But they're all fun, whether historically accurate or not.
I like the Ruger Old Army for cold weather shooting - the chambers are bigger for easier loading.

zaboomafoozarg
February 26, 2010, 11:06 PM
Yea, historic context doesnt much matter to me. Just want to know whether or not it's just a piece of crap or a slightly cheaper alternative to the buffalo :)

SixShootinSam
February 27, 2010, 12:08 AM
Well I gotta tell ya zaboomafoozarg, the Buffalo looks a heck of a lot better in my opinion, but I would think you would have a harder time replacing the frame of the Buffalo than you would with the Wyatt Earp, since the colt style frames are not attached to the barrel and grip like the remington models are.

zaboomafoozarg
February 27, 2010, 12:14 AM
Yea... it does actually. And the Wyatt Earp has very few reviews, is nearly impossible to find information on, and gets worse reviews in general. I can't even figure out who makes it. Scratch that idea I think :D Thanks Sam

BHP FAN
February 27, 2010, 12:33 AM
Look at Cabela's,too.Those round barreled brass frame .44's my buddy got [which are still going] came from there. You could probably buy a pair for what you'd pay for a single piece,elsewhere. And those are Piettas. parts are available from VTI gunparts,Dixie,or from Cabela's itself.They sell a whole Pietta parts kit [you'd use the one for the Navy for the roundbarrel] and they have a pretty good selection,also.Online or catalog.

BHP FAN
February 27, 2010, 12:36 AM
$169.00 for the Navy round barrel.Sweet gun, too. about $40.00 for a spare cylinder.

zaboomafoozarg
February 27, 2010, 12:42 AM
That's a dang fair deal. So, you mentioned parts... would it be possible to put a 12" barrel on something like that? The 5-1/2" isn't bad, it just doesn't have the same appeal, really.

zaboomafoozarg
February 27, 2010, 12:43 AM
$169? Are we looking at the same thing? I am seeing the 1851 Navy Round Barrel for 149.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=netcon&id=0072046217167a&navCount=1&podId=0072046&parentId=cat20817&masterpathid=&navAction=push&catalogCode=9IS&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat20817&hasJS=true

SixShootinSam
February 27, 2010, 12:57 AM
It would be possible to put on a 12 inch barrel, the problem is finding one I suppose.

On a sidenote, you can get a seperate steel frame on Taylors & Co website if you wanted to go for the Wyatt Earp. It is, however, 150 bucks.
http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/products/detail-parts.tpl?manufacturer=Pietta&subcategory=1860%20Army%20Steel/1861%20Navy%20Steel&startat=31

Just realized that link was for an 1860 army, here is for the navy. still same price though.
http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/products/detail-parts.tpl?manufacturer=Pietta&subcategory=1851%20Navy/Confederate%20Brass%20on%20Steel&startat=31

madcratebuilder
February 27, 2010, 05:36 AM
$169? Are we looking at the same thing? I am seeing the 1851 Navy Round Barrel for 149.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=netcon&id=0072046217167a&navCount=1&podId=0072046&parentId=cat20817&masterpathid=&navAction=push&catalogCode=9IS&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat20817&hasJS=true
here's the $169 revolver.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal-pod.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/pod-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20712-cat20720-cat20817&rid=&indexId=cat20817&navAction=push&masterpathid=&navCount=1&parentType=index&parentId=cat20817&id=0006186

I bought one of these just over a year ago, it was on sale, had a free shipping and $20 coupon so it was super cheap. It's been a great shooter. The trigger has some creep but that is fairly easy to stone out.

BHP FAN
February 27, 2010, 05:46 AM
that's the one! And the barrel is really, plenty long once you have it in your hot little hands. just perfect,as is. best darn deal in the whole book, if you ask me. buy two.

MCgunner
February 27, 2010, 08:28 AM
I like shorter barrels, myself, and if I was a little money ahead, I'd jump on this.....

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal-pod.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/pod-link.jsp_A&_DAV=netcon&rid=&indexId=cat370001&navAction=push&masterpathid=&navCount=0&parentType=index&parentId=cat370001&id=0028401

BHP FAN
February 27, 2010, 11:49 AM
I've got the Remmie .36's, myself.about an inch longer,but not as long as the full sized ones.

Al LaVodka
February 27, 2010, 11:54 AM
"I like shorter barrels, myself, and if I was a little money ahead, I'd jump on this.....

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...001&id=0028401"


But who MAKES it!?

Al

SixShootinSam
February 27, 2010, 12:20 PM
Cabela's deals with Pietta, that's what it is. I have one of those myself :)

BHP FAN
February 27, 2010, 01:21 PM
Those 5 1/2'' .44's balance better than anything I've ever handled,except maybe the the Navy Sheriff's model Colt. My .36 Remmies are close,but a mite heavy.I bought two.

WALKERs210
February 28, 2010, 12:42 AM
From the What It's Worth Dept. I have a Pietta 1858 Buffalo that is great. Been working up different loads and powders to see what works best with it. Brass frame had me somewhat worried but I don't have any intentions of super charging the gun. These are like anything man made, treat the right and they will last, abuse and misuse they don't. Spend 26,000 for a 2007 Camry XLE with all the bells and whistles on it. Two months after we had it the car would LURCH with brake on, took it back to dealer, who said NOTHING wrong with it. Saleman that I worked with bought the same car, upon his retirement in 2007 He took me aside and said YES THERE IS A BIG PROBLEM. Goes to show anything made by man no matter what the cost can have problems. But for the Buffalo mine is a keeper, mostly when I pull it out of the holster and have all eyes on that long barrel, and the the BALL OF FIRE it spits out, Giving serious thought of getting a second one so I would have a matching set.

BHP FAN
February 28, 2010, 12:47 AM
I almost always buy in pairs.When I can't afford that,I buy one,with the idea,''this is the first of a set''...

madcratebuilder
February 28, 2010, 06:50 AM
I almost always buy in pairs.When I can't afford that,I buy one,with the idea,''this is the first of a set''...
I like that line of thinking!

I may have to get one of those .36 Remies, I've neglected that part of the accumulation.

BHP FAN
February 28, 2010, 07:32 PM
you haven't neglected much, we've seen the pictures! But yeah, everyone should own all the Remmies they can afford, in the calibers of their choice.I have a .31 [the first of the set!] two .36 percussions, a .38 conversion,a pair of 1890's in .38/.357 reputed to have belonged to Maria Uberti,and a pair of .45 Colt caliber Italian 1875's.

madcratebuilder
March 1, 2010, 07:27 AM
But yeah, everyone should own all the Remmies they can afford, in the calibers of their choice.I have a .31 [the first of the set!] two .36 percussions, a .38 conversion,a pair of 1890's in .38/.357 reputed to have belonged to Maria Uberti,and a pair of .45 Colt caliber Italian 1875's.

I have a Buffalo and three different 58's. I've been drooling over a .36. Friday my local shop had a 1863? patent dated Remington in pretty nice shape $800. I may go back today and take some photo's and research it. I drug four guns home last Monday so this may land me in the doghouse.

BHP FAN
March 1, 2010, 06:25 PM
I'm pretty much always in there..''32 French dies cost you WHAAAAAT!?'' seriously she's a pretty good ol' gal,to put up with all that she does,especially since she has zero interest in firearms.

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