Dedicated Deer Gun?


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SqueegeeBob
February 22, 2010, 04:35 PM
I've already got a Savage .30-06 which I bought back in college to be my "hunting" rifle. Now I'm looking for something a with a little less recoil, prettier wood, and more specialization. Ideally I want a caliber that will hold within +-1 inch from about 15-190 yards which is about as far as I can see where I hunt.

My budget, including mounts, rings, and optics is about $1,000.

So far I'm leaning toward a 7mm-08 in the new Winchester Model 70 Featherweight, but I'm not completely sold on it yet.

I've never hand-loaded before, but I might be willing to take it up, if that makes any difference.

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jbech123
February 22, 2010, 04:40 PM
Ideally I want a caliber that will hold within +-1 inch from about 15-190 yards
any caliber will do that. It's the quality of the particular rifle and ammunition that will determine if that accuracy is achievable on a case by case basis. And of course your shooting ability is a major factor.

SqueegeeBob
February 22, 2010, 04:45 PM
any caliber will do that. It's the quality of the particular rifle and ammunition that will determine if that accuracy is achievable on a case by case basis. And of course your shooting ability is a major factor.
Well, a 30-30 or 45-70 probably wouldn't. Basically when I say that I mean I'm looking for a cartridge with a more modern ballistic profile.

In my mind .243, .25-06, and 7mm-08 are the front runners, but I'm not closed to suggestions in the 6.5mm range.

Sav .250
February 22, 2010, 04:56 PM
Lots out there that will fit your needs but lets go with a .243 or 25-06 for starters. :)

Birddog1911
February 22, 2010, 04:58 PM
Where do you live? Your caliber choice should be a little dependent on that. While .243 is a pretty good cartridge, it wouldn't be the wisest choice here in CO. I have known a few hunters who liked 7mm-08. Personally, I really don't think that you can go wrong with a 30-06. Maybe what you need is just a different 30-06. Also, .308 is a phenomenal round.

Oh, and yes, you can hold 1 inch or less with a .45-70; I've done it with a 12 pound buffalo rifle with open sites time and again. And a Ruger #1. Now that is a classy rifle.

Edited to add: You mentioned a featherlite in 7mm. That's gonna have some good recoil to it as well, if your worried about recoil.

R.W.Dale
February 22, 2010, 04:58 PM
I want a caliber that will hold within +-1 inch from about 15-190 yards which is about as far as I can see where I hunt.

are you talking about ACCURACY or TRAJECTORY?

because in terms of cartridges just about anything will do the former and NOTHING will do the latter

06
February 22, 2010, 05:01 PM
Bob, am retirement age and still use my trusty old Md77 Ruger in '06. I bought it several yrs ago to replace my '03 and was pleasantly surprised at its accuracy. First sighting in was at 100 yds and then I clicked up the elevation to 220 yds and touched off another. I still have the Aluminum foil wrapped flattened drink can with a hole exactly in the middle. Have not moved it since. It is the most accurate small barrel rifle I have ever shot-just tickled me. Hope you find a jewel like that in your next one. Nothing quite so aggravating as to have an inaccurate shooter.

SqueegeeBob
February 22, 2010, 05:01 PM
are you talking about ACCURACY or TRAJECTORY?

because in terms of cartridges just about anything will do the former and NOTHING will do the latter
I intended that to be trajectory, and I arrived at those numbers after playing with the Remington Shoot program, which seemed to indicate that just about any of the cartridges I was looking at would do within about 20 yards of that.

I do my hunting in East central Texas, so the deer aren't exactly monsters.

SqueegeeBob
February 22, 2010, 05:42 PM
Caliber isn't really all that important to me, as long as it kills deer every time and thumps less than a 30-06.

Any thoughts on the new Model 70's? Any other rifle I should be looking at instead?

blitzen
February 22, 2010, 05:49 PM
I think your on the right track with the 7mm08.( it's a killer, more so than the ballisics charts would have you believe). 260 Rem. in a handy little bolt gun might be something to look at as well.

sumpnz
February 22, 2010, 05:52 PM
My choice for a deer rifle was a CZ-550 in 6.5x55mm Swedish. The rifle has enough weight to tame what little recoil the Swede round generates yet is still light enough to hike at least a few miles in steep terrority with. Plenty of oom-pah for even big mule deer out a lot farther than you're talking about. Only "downside" is that to get a trajectory anywhere close to what you want you have to handload your ammo. There just aren't the factory offerings to do what you want, from what I recall anyway.

SqueegeeBob
February 22, 2010, 05:57 PM
Honestly, what I'd like is to just sight it in an inch high at 100 yards and be able to keep it within +-1 inch of the sight plane out to at least 150. That 190 thing was just from looking at the graphs on Remington Shoot.

I just don't want to need a drop chart within the range I'm likely to see.

TheDriver
February 22, 2010, 06:02 PM
If you are staying under 200m I'd give 7mm08 the edge over .25-06 just on stopping power. Though, recoil-wise, .25-06 is a dream in my opinion.

Abel
February 22, 2010, 06:06 PM
I've already got a Savage .30-06

You already have a dedicated deer gun. What you are missing is a good brush gun like a 30-30 or 35 Rem.

R.W.Dale
February 22, 2010, 06:16 PM
Wants less recoil than 30/06 and doesn't shoot beyond 190yds


Just buy a nice 30-30 and call it a day.

SqueegeeBob
February 22, 2010, 06:47 PM
Wants less recoil than 30/06 and doesn't shoot beyond 190yds


Just buy a nice 30-30 and call it a day.
The funny thing is that when I started looking at getting a new rifle I was thinking about a .30-30 and shooting with iron sights, but somehow managed to convince myself what I wanted was a new bolt gun.

Ya'll aren't helping sell any model 70's.

Abel
February 22, 2010, 06:59 PM
I was thinking about a .30-30 and shooting with iron sights

Let's not go crazy or anything. You can mount a scope on a Marlin 336 just as easily as a bolt gun.

ColeK
February 22, 2010, 07:05 PM
Ruger Hawkeye .257 Roberts, recoil is a little more than a .243 and a lot less than a .25-06.

ruger700
February 22, 2010, 07:19 PM
+1 for the 257 Roberts. I have a Ruger RL and really enjoy it. Very effecitve round.

MJR007
February 22, 2010, 07:22 PM
Buy a reloading kit and make the .06 into a 30-30.

TXHORNS
February 22, 2010, 07:24 PM
I just bought a Model 70 in 7mm-08 and put a VX2 2-7x33 on it. 1" groups at a 100 aren't a problem.

I chose the round because I appreciate a 1/2 lb weight savings (for this rifle), short action, and it will do anything I need it to in TX. I like the 25-06 but I didn't want a 24" barrel, which is recommended for the round. A also like 243 but wanted more punch for hogs. I really like the 243's ability to shoot a 55 grain bullet as well so I will be adding one eventually, probably the same rifle.

I chose the gun because for the price I don't think you can beat it right now. I think its prettier than just about any rifle out there, I love the mauser action and its light! I am also very pleased with the fit and finish, not so pleased that she got into a fight with my Beretta 391 in the safe but hey, she has her first battle scar.

This is the only rifle I could find that met my requirements of: Made in the USA, 22" barrel, 6.5lbs or lighter, 7mm-08, good looking wood and blued, and under $1000 w/scope, which I did...barely.

Pic shows mine on the left, ironically next to my 30-06. Get one! Its at the top of my favorite guns list and I have only had it a few months.

jonboynumba1
February 22, 2010, 07:25 PM
I actually like .243 quite a bit...we have a beautiful loaner here at the shop (Rem 700 BDL) with a nice 3-9x40 VXIII on it that's killed a mountain of deer at the hunting club. We've found the plain cheap Remington corelocked 100 grain ammo does just great...the lighter bullets tend to act more like varmint bullets and make a mess....however I'm sure there are exceptions to that (Hornday Interbond ect) and

keep in mind most of our shots here are 40-100 yards with a few odds spots you can even reach out a few hundred yards (and a nice powerline cut-through of 800+ yard shots we use off season for fun shooting (mostly Tide jugs full of water and the occassional watermelon) 610 yards is my personal best comfirmed Jug kill-LOL I've never shot a deer past 150 yards I can recall...never needed to! Out west on bigger game....well our members learn on the pipeline and are glad for the time they spend before the high dollar Elk hunts. Point being -you sound like you know exactly the nich you want filled and the limits you want to stay within recoil wise. .243 would be fine...but since we are fine tuning I'd preffer 7-08 with the 139gr Hornday being my starting point on loads. To me that's about perfect for the normal 100-240 pound range most whitetail will be in with the correct bullet and load your rifle of choice likes. If you go super light on the rifle then maybe I edge back towards the .243 a bit....either one will work fine all day long...I just preffer the weight range of 120-150gr for deer and that it be within the happy balance-point for the chambering it's in...so 260 rem or 7mm-08 would probably get my vote...I've always wanted a .260 rem to play with. I really would look at a deal on a new or slightly used Rem model 7 if I wuz in yer shoes...just about perfect for what you want. Look around gunbroker.com and find a dealer with reasonable transfer fees.

Birddog1911
February 22, 2010, 07:27 PM
My East Texas deer gun was a Ruger #77V, in 6mm Rem.. Great cartridge, recoil aint bad at all.

I gotta say though, I'm still partial to my .308.

41magsnub
February 22, 2010, 07:29 PM
Consider reduced recoil .30-06 ammo, it is a lot cheaper than a rifle. A buddy with a bad shoulder didn't want to go with a new rifle so he tried the Remington 125gr managed recoil .30-06 out of his Model 70. They have worked just dandy on Eastern MT mule deer for him for 2 years now. If you reload you could certainly make your own similar load.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/rem_managed_recoil.htm

NCsmitty
February 22, 2010, 07:30 PM
Your Savage that you own can be converted to another caliber of your choice, by buying a new barrel and headspace gauge and barrel wrench. Buy a nice replacement stock to fit and save yourself some money.
If you do not plan to use your '06 barrel anymore, sell it on one of the gun sale sites like Gunbroker.com.


NCsmitty

paintballdude902
February 22, 2010, 07:33 PM
id get a ruger in 7mm08

WestEnd65
February 22, 2010, 07:35 PM
I think a .260 would work fine. My first deer rifle was a ruger mark II in that caliber. It has very minimal recoil, shoots flat, and has plenty of power.

SqueegeeBob
February 22, 2010, 07:37 PM
My thought had been to keep that one around to use as a back-up.

*Edit*
Sorry, this was supposed to be a reply to Smitty.

"Your Savage that you own can be converted to another caliber of your choice, by buying a new barrel and headspace gauge and barrel wrench. Buy a nice replacement stock to fit and save yourself some money.
If you do not plan to use your '06 barrel anymore, sell it on one of the gun sale sites like Gunbroker.com."

SqueegeeBob
February 22, 2010, 07:40 PM
I just bought a Model 70 in 7mm-08 and put a VX2 2-7x33 on it. 1" groups at a 100 aren't a problem.

I chose the round because I appreciate a 1/2 lb weight savings (for this rifle), short action, and it will do anything I need it to in TX. I like the 25-06 but I didn't want a 24" barrel, which is recommended for the round. A also like 243 but wanted more punch for hogs. I really like the 243's ability to shoot a 55 grain bullet as well so I will be adding one eventually, probably the same rifle.

I chose the gun because for the price I don't think you can beat it right now. I think its prettier than just about any rifle out there, I love the mauser action and its light! I am also very pleased with the fit and finish, not so pleased that she got into a fight with my Beretta 391 in the safe but hey, she has her first battle scar.

This is the only rifle I could find that met my requirements of: Made in the USA, 22" barrel, 6.5lbs or lighter, 7mm-08, good looking wood and blued, and under $1000 w/scope, which I did...barely.

Pic shows mine on the left, ironically next to my 30-06. Get one! Its at the top of my favorite guns list and I have only had it a few months.
One of the only misgivings I have about the model 70 is that none of my local shops have got one in 7-08, and the only place that will order one for me is Gander Mtn, which I've never dealt with before.

jmr40
February 22, 2010, 07:49 PM
You're on the right track. The 7-08 will easily kill anything except big bears, has light recoil and can be very accurate. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Wincheaster Featherweight either.

It sounds like you want an all around rifle that is light weight. Not trying to steer you away from the Winchester, but also look at the Remington 7, Remington 700 Mountain rifle and the Kimber Montana. They are nice as well and sound like they would also fit your needs. Look at them all and decide what works best for you and your budget.

I have the Kimber in 308. I think the 7-08 is really a better round, but already have other 308's so I went that route to simplify things.

MJR007
February 22, 2010, 07:58 PM
A rebarrel job to a 280. It should be a huge improvement over your 06...

TXHORNS
February 22, 2010, 09:08 PM
One of the only misgivings I have about the model 70 is that none of my local shops have got one in 7-08, and the only place that will order one for me is Gander Mtn, which I've never dealt with before.
Yeah I had to order one through my local shop. You could buy online through a retail shop or gunbroker. I have used Buds before and like them.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/23/products_id/57512

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
February 22, 2010, 09:34 PM
Since that budget includes optics, that leaves very little for the rifle (since optics and mounts are important to "do right"). Still some great choices out there, but fewer chambering options among those choices.

I'd be looking hard at some of these:

Savage, Stevens, T/C Venture, Marlin, or Howa in .243 Win
Savage, Stevens, Venture, Marlin, or Howa in .25-'06 (or is the Venture even offered in .25-06?)
Savage or Stevens or Marlin in 7mm-08 Rem

So the rifle & caliber choices are kinda going to have to be a simultaneous event, given the options here.

FSJeeper
February 22, 2010, 10:02 PM
Sounds like a 6.5 x 55 is worth your consideration. Do some research on it. It is an excellent cartridge for your needs.

The Win. 70, Tika T-3, and CZ 550 are all winners.

bpl
February 22, 2010, 10:54 PM
IMO, the sweet spot for deer is somewhere in the .25cal to 7mm/.284cal range (excluding 7mm mag). 7mm-08 is an excellent cartridge for deer. It is the most readily available of the cartidges in that range, other than .270 and maybe 25-06 which I know is popular in TX but is not very popular here in PA.

The new Model 70s are excellent rifles and would definitely be my choice for a new rifle. I did, in fact, buy a M70 Extreme Weather SS in 30-06 last year and I'm very pleased with it. I feel the new M70 is clearly nicer than any other rifles in its price range, which is actually quite reasonable. You should be able to get a new M70 Featherweight and nice scope for around $1000.

I'd like to point out that sighting any rifle in at 1" high at 100 yards is wasting its MPBR potential. At least go 2" high at 100yards for at least 250yards MPBR.

Geno
February 22, 2010, 11:18 PM
So far I'm leaning toward a 7mm-08 in the new Winchester Model 70 Featherweight, but I'm not completely sold on it yet.

Why not? It's a good platform, and a good cartridge. It will do what you are asking and more. JMHO.

Geno

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
February 23, 2010, 12:37 AM
If he gets a Win 70 featherweight in any decent condition, that leaves only $250-$300 for "mounts, rings, and optics". That ain't gonna cut it, IMO. You've got to get a cheaper rifle in this situation IMO.

bpl
February 23, 2010, 01:05 AM
Dr. Tad,

What would be some examples of the minimum level of scope which you would find acceptable on a new M70 Featherweight? What if he could increase his budget by $100-200?

SqueegeeBob
February 23, 2010, 01:21 AM
The scopes I had been thinking about were the new Redfield 3-9x40, Nikon Buckmasters 3-9x40, or a Bushnell Elite 3200 3-10x40 short action.

Leaning toward the Redfield since it's $70 cheaper and has the same warranty as Leupold.

cal74
February 23, 2010, 11:51 AM
So far I'm leaning toward a 7mm-08 in the new Winchester Model 70 Featherweight

I don't think you could do a whole lot better on that budget, very nice rifles and have been getting a lot of good press. More than likely you'll spend 700-800.00 on the rifle, figure about 50.00 for good scope mounts. So that doesn't leave you much room for a decent scope.

I'd keep my eye open for a VX-II 2-7 in the 200.00 range or if you can swing around 300.00 you could pick up a clean used VX-III 2.5-8. Few VX3's on the used market now also. I'd also seriously consider getting the Leupold Alumina Scope covers.
Both scopes in gloss would match the rifles lines very nice.




Just saw you posted what you were looking at for scopes, not bad choices but don't really go with the slim lines of a featherweight/short action. In a quality scope you don't need anything larger than a 32/33mm objective. The Redfields have been getting some good reviews and they also offer one in 2-7 to suit your budget.

If he gets a Win 70 featherweight in any decent condition, that leaves only $250-$300 for "mounts, rings, and optics". That ain't gonna cut it, IMO. You've got to get a cheaper rifle in this situation IMO. Again, no harm in looking at the used market and you can save usually 30-40% pretty easily and if you take care of it, you'll always get your money back out of it.

TXHORNS
February 23, 2010, 04:37 PM
My price for a new Model 70 in 7-08 was $700 out the door. I got a good deal on my Leupold VX2 2-7x33 and with Leupold rings/mounts/tax was just under $300. So under $1000 with good optics is possible, or at least according to my tastes.

If you notice the Browning in the pic i posted, it wears a Redfield Revolution 3-9x40. I think the Redfields are a heck of a deal. Had I not found the Leupold deal, I would have opted for the 2-7 Redfield on my featherweight. The Bushnell and Nikon scopes are good too with my preference being the Nikon, and I have used both, but I like the Redfield more than both of those, even if the prices were the same.

Give some thought to a 2-7x33. The Featherweight is light so a smaller scope really compliments the handling of the rifle.

stsimons
February 23, 2010, 05:09 PM
This is my first post!

I was in the same situation looking for a good dedicated deer rifle. After handling just about every rifle in Gander Mtn I ended up with a Marlin xs7 in 7mm-08. It felt very balanced to me, it had a great trigger, smooth action, and the quality seemed better than some guns with higher prices. I mounted a Bushnell Trophy 3x9x40 with low kwik sight rings and bought three different boxes of ammo to see what it wanted to eat. Off the bench using sandbags I can get 1.5 inch groups with the cheap federal blue box 150gr or with the Win 140 soft points at 100yds. Federal vital shok Barnes TSX 140 group less than 1in at the same distance. I have about $500 in the rifle, scope, rings, and accessories. It shoots as good as any rifle I have ever owned and if I hadn't bought it on an impulse due to its low cost I would not have ever believed it...

berettashotgun
February 23, 2010, 05:14 PM
Nice scope for the money

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=157246584

Talley mfg for the rings- call them direct to place your order. Tell them what scope you are going to use.

Forget anyone who says rebarrel the Savage - NEW WINCHESTER for you mister.
On paper the 7-08 looks great, in the field it performs even better.
Don't get a 243, you will regret it later on down the road.
Of the choices listed - 25-06 is the only way to go.
I sure like the 6 & 6.5mm cartridges. Own several of them, just bought some 6.5x55sm rifles.
BUT if you get a NEW Winchester Model 70 and it ain't a 270 - - The blasphemy.
A 270 with 130gr bullets is everything all other rounds aspire to become ( at least in your region - I'd step up my game going north)

SqueegeeBob
February 23, 2010, 06:40 PM
Nice scope for the money

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=157246584

Talley mfg for the rings- call them direct to place your order. Tell them what scope you are going to use.

Forget anyone who says rebarrel the Savage - NEW WINCHESTER for you mister.
On paper the 7-08 looks great, in the field it performs even better.
Don't get a 243, you will regret it later on down the road.
Of the choices listed - 25-06 is the only way to go.
I sure like the 6 & 6.5mm cartridges. Own several of them, just bought some 6.5x55sm rifles.
BUT if you get a NEW Winchester Model 70 and it ain't a 270 - - The blasphemy.
A 270 with 130gr bullets is everything all other rounds aspire to become ( at least in your region - I'd step up my game going north)
I certainly don't have anything against Jack O'Connor, if that's what you mean.

peptoe
February 23, 2010, 06:43 PM
I think the .243 is a winner for you IMHO. It's a duel pupose cartridge that can take most all deer and be loaded down for varmints and predators. Get something like this and have about $400 left over for a scope.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/80562

jmr40
February 23, 2010, 06:57 PM
$200-$300 would not leave enough for a great scope, but would leave enough for a decent scope. You could always upgrade later. A set of Talley lightweights are around $40. The new Redfield scopes are $160ish and have gotten good reviews. A Nikon Prostaff at around the same price ain't bad for the money. He can get a Leupold or Zeiss in a couple of years if he wants to upgrade.

Maverick223
February 23, 2010, 07:07 PM
The scopes I had been thinking about were the new Redfield 3-9x40, Nikon Buckmasters 3-9x40, or a Bushnell Elite 3200 3-10x40 short action.

Leaning toward the Redfield since it's $70 cheaper and has the same warranty as Leupold.You're leaning in the right direction on the rifle (Winchester M-70 in 7mm-08), but way off on the scope. I would take either of the later two over the Redfield. The Redfield's glass is weak IMO, I would look at Sightron S-II, Vortex Diamonback, Nikon (Buckmaster will work, but the Monarch is a good bit better IMO), or Bushnell (Elite 3200 will work, but the Elite 4200 is much better IMO). I would suggest DNZ or even Weaver mount/rings.

:)

Abel
February 23, 2010, 07:28 PM
The Redfield's glass is weak IMO

I've also heard that the new Redfield's POI changes when you switch power.


.....Also look at a Burris FullfieldII or a Nikon Buckmaster.

Maverick223
February 23, 2010, 07:46 PM
I've also heard that the new Redfield's POI changes when you switch power. Very good point, no experience using one (I did have an opportunity to look at a few), but the review that I read (that stated that problem) was from a good source.

:)

berettashotgun
February 23, 2010, 08:08 PM
I did NOT mean the 243 is a bad caliber - I love it - but rather the 270 can always go bigger bullet.
You are stuck with a 100gr or so bullet in a 243. Kinda light in the pants for deer hunting in the wind.
IMHO the 25-06 is about perfect but a 270 - WOW - nice.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
February 23, 2010, 08:14 PM
What if he could increase his budget by $100-200?

Then I'd agree that the Win 70 Featherweight in 7mm-08 is perfect! :) Just want to make sure the man has plenty enough left for good rings, base, and a Nikon (Omega/Buckmaster) or Bushnell Elite (3200/4200) or similar quality, and shipping+FFL or tax!

But realistically, on second thought, I misspoke, because he could run with a Prostaff or Fullfield II or similar and still have a game killing mo-sheen within the budget (with a sub-$185 scope), even with a new Win 70 - I'd say that hits it out of the park, if he likes that chambering. Either that, or if he can find a good deal on a T/C Icon (Under $750-$775 OTD) in .243.

I would give my left [body part] for a new FN made Win 70 featherweight in .280 rem, with a 24" bbl. But it's a unicorn and will stay that way. Oooh, just thought of my new dream rifle: Titanium receiver Win 70 FW in .280 rem, with 24" stainless bbl and fiberglass stock! :eek: Wow, time to go do some drooling.

peptoe
February 23, 2010, 08:14 PM
He has a 30-06 that he can always step up to if need be, there really isn'y much a 270 can do that a 30-06 can't. If he wants a dedicated deer gun a 243 is the perfect cal IMO.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
February 23, 2010, 08:27 PM
That's a good point - ballistically and recoil-wise, the 7mm-08 and .270 are really not that far from .30-06 in the grand scheme of things. So maybe a .257 Bob or .243 Win would fill the gap better - or a .260 Rem or .25-06.

Maverick223
February 23, 2010, 09:11 PM
That's a good point - ballistically and recoil-wise, the 7mm-08 and .270 are really not that far from .30-06 in the grand scheme of things.I disagree WRT the 7mm-08, the ballistics are close, but the 7mm-08 doesn't have near the recoil of the .30-'06 (or .270Win) IMO. I still prefer the .260Rem, but that is another story.

:)

SqueegeeBob
February 23, 2010, 09:18 PM
I disagree WRT the 7mm-08, the ballistics are close, but the 7mm-08 doesn't have near the recoil of the .30-'06 (or .270Win) IMO. I still prefer the .260Rem, but that is another story.

:)
Chuck Hawks would seem to agree with you. His recoil chart shows that the .25-06 and the 7mm-08 are almost identical with regards to recoil, and both are closer to the .243 than they are to the .30-06, or even the .270.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

SqueegeeBob
February 24, 2010, 12:04 AM
Well, it looks like Amazon is selling Bushnell Elite 3200 2-7x32 scopes for $150 with free shipping right now. Anybody know of a better deal than that?

*Edit*

They also have the Elite 3200 3-10x40 Short Action for $139, also with free shipping.

Which of those two would you rather have? I notice that the 3-10 has the best eye relief of any of the Elite 3200 line.

*Edit 2*

Doh, I'm an idiot, the 3-10x40 is $197. $139 is how much you "save"

Mustanir
February 24, 2010, 12:10 AM
So the great debate seems to close at .25-06 or 7mm-08, user reviews on both are excellent, so Bob go ahead and share your views after shooting one of the beauties. Win 70 Featherweight or Rem 700!!!:D

Maverick223
February 24, 2010, 12:13 AM
Which of those two would you rather have?I'd choose the 3-10x for the larger objective and greater magnification. It is a better choice for the cartridges that you are considering IMO.

:)

Arkansas Paul
February 24, 2010, 12:22 AM
I'm with MJR007. If you don't mind getting into reloading like you said, and you like your .30-06, just take the plunge and load it down. I'm not familiar with all of the manuals but I know the Speer has reduced recoil loads. If you don't want to handload, Remington sells them off the shelf.

Of course if you just want another rifle, well that's fine too. And you couldn't go wrong with the 7mm-08 you mentioned.

Atroxus
February 24, 2010, 12:28 AM
He did say he is open to reloading, so I am surprised more people didn't recommend going that route. That is instead of buying a new rifle handoading lighter recoiling .30-06 rounds for deer. $1000 could get you a pretty nice reloading setup, plus enough books to learn what you need to know to load safely.

SqueegeeBob
February 24, 2010, 12:30 AM
I'm with MJR007. If you don't mind getting into reloading like you said, and you like your .30-06, just take the plunge and load it down. I'm not familiar with all of the manuals but I know the Speer has reduced recoil loads. If you don't want to handload, Remington sells them off the shelf.

Of course if you just want another rifle, well that's fine too. And you couldn't go wrong with the 7mm-08 you mentioned.
I've killed deer with that savage, and it's not like I can't stand to shoot the 06, it's just that now that I'm out of school I have the budget to shoot a gun that costs more than $400 if I want to.

When I bought that first rifle it really did have to be enough to do anything I'd get a chance to do, which is why I went with 30-06 instead of something more refined.

Sholiz
February 24, 2010, 12:36 AM
I have what you want.

Win Model 70, it's pre-bankrupcy ... if that means anything. 7mm-08 with Nikon Buckmaster 3-9x40. I got zeroed in for 200yds, and hit 2" high at 25yds. I can poke holes in paper plates from 100-300yds with no issues, it's everything I could ask for in a deer rifle. It's accurate off cold bore, and way more accurate then the shooter.

Did some wicked wound channel to a doe I dropped 3 years ago from 130 out, haven't killed anything since. It's a great rifle, good shooter, great finish. I'm not sure what prices are now, but I think all together it was < $1000.

Ammo's on the pricey side ($26 for Core-Lokt, to $50 for Cor-Bon) ... not sure what 30-06 goes for. I'm going to be reloading the same 150gr BTHP bullet for 7mm Mag and 7mm-08, if that's a selling point at all.

SqueegeeBob
February 24, 2010, 01:10 AM
Alright, for scopes it looks like I need to choose between the following:

Nikon Buckmasters 3-9x40 - $184
Bushnell Elite 3200 3-10x40 short action - $197
Bushnell Elite 4200 3-9x40 - $239

Others that I've heard, but that I don't have prices for are the Burris Fullfield II, Vortex Viper, and Leupold VX-II

Maverick223
February 24, 2010, 01:30 AM
Vortex Viper is about $250-300.00, of what you have listed, I would go for the Bushnell E-4200 or Vortex Viper.

:)

Uncle Mike
February 24, 2010, 01:35 AM
Check out the Minox line also, they are new in town...pretty good from what I have been told.

Minox Germany:http://www.minox.com/index.php?id=3969&L=2

Designed in Germany, assembled in the USA from 'internationally' acquired parts, the prices are between $300 and $500 dealer.

SqueegeeBob
February 24, 2010, 01:49 AM
Am I right in assuming that I would need the STD 70 RVF/R Leupold bases and the STD low Leupold Rings for one of the new Model 70's?

bpl
February 24, 2010, 01:56 AM
Dr. Tad,

How about the (soon to be coming?) Kimber 84L in .280AI? I believe it will have a 24" barrel. I was thinking about saving up for an 84M Montana in 7mm-08, but a .280AI sounds very interesting. I'd definitely have to start handloading!

SqueegeeBob,

.25-06 really needs a 24" or longer barrel to be a .25-06, otherwise its a .257 Roberts with more recoil. Get the 7mm-08 in the M70 Featherweight. It will reach its potential velocity better in the 22" barrel and as a short action cartridge, the rifle will be lighter. The 7mm-08 has significantly less recoil than a 30-06 and in the past when I did some calculations I believe it has around 20-25% less recoil than a .270. Depends on the load, weight of rifle, etc. of course, but you get the idea. Its a more than sufficiently powerful cartridge for deer that is relatively pleasant to shoot.

WRT the scope, Leupolds will usually be lighter, more compact and have better eye relief than the competition. Also, the warranty is rock solid. They're worth the extra $$ IMO.

Maverick223
February 24, 2010, 01:58 AM
Am I right in assuming that I would need the STD 70 RVF/R Leupold bases and the STD low Leupold Rings for one of the new Model 70's?I believe so, but I would go with the DD (dual dovetail) version if available. Also you will almost certainly need Med. height rings for the 40mm objective.

:)

SqueegeeBob
February 24, 2010, 01:09 PM
Well, I talked to the boss (aka wife) last night and got the go-ahead to stretch my budget a little.

Looking around this morning has resulted in my considering getting a Leupold VX-3 2.5-8x36 scope and the Dual Dovetail mount and rings.

It looks like the whole package (with a model 70) will set me back about $1,250

I notice that the model 70's have glossy barrels, and that the scope and mounts are available with a glossy finish as well. Does that sound like the way to go? Or should I just get the matte finish instead?

Maverick223
February 24, 2010, 01:47 PM
The only reason I own a Leupold (VX-3) is because of the gloss finish that they offer. It is a good scope but overpriced IMO. FWIW, I think gloss would look good on that rifle.

:)

bpl
February 24, 2010, 02:09 PM
SqeegeeBob,

I really like that VX-3 2.5-8x36mm Leupold. I have two of them. Its nice and light, compact, nice glass, works very well in low light conditions. I think that if the rifle bluing is gloss, I'd get the scope in gloss as well. I think a new Featherweight short action with that scope will rock!:D

Oh, look into the Alumina Lens Covers. I use them on my Leupold scopes and really like them. Enjoy!

Vern Humphrey
February 24, 2010, 02:33 PM
Well, it looks like Amazon is selling Bushnell Elite 3200 2-7x32 scopes for $150 with free shipping right now. Anybody know of a better deal than that?
In my opinion, most scopes are over-powered with overly-large objective lenses. This is great for bench shooting, not so good for hunting. In more than 50 years of deer hunting, I have never used a variable power at any setting other than the lowest -- except once, when I had to poke a bullet through a tiny hole in the brush.

Low powers just work better for hunting -- they allow you to acquire targets quicker and don't show so much wobble when shooting from field positions.

The key factor in low-light conditions (other than coatings) is the exit pupil -- the spot of light the scope transmits to your eye. The pupil of your eye can dilate to a maximum of 7mm. Calculate exit pupil by dividing the objective lens diameter by the power. This shows us that the 2-7x32 scope will give you all the exit pupil you can use, up to about 4 1/2 power.

And the smaller objective lens will allow mounting the scope lower on the rifle.

Dolph92
February 24, 2010, 02:34 PM
I am a practical kind of guy so I would opt for a 270 win.
Reasons are as follows:
270 can fill in for the 06 on most hunts if ya have to.
270 ammo is in every small town gas station that carries ammo.
Recoil is milder than the 06.
Its known to be an accurate round.

I got the GF a nice Rem 798 with leupold for under $800 Decent woodgrain she shoots Rem managed recoil rounds 110Gr psp and groups them at less than an inch at 100. BTW the action of the old 98 is as pretty bullet proof action.

Chuck has some good words on this round that makes sense to me. http://www.chuckhawks.com/accurate_rifle_cartridges.htm

Dolph92
February 24, 2010, 02:42 PM
BTW the 798 isnt manufactured anymore but you can still find them new on the shelf for a discounted rate that why I opted for that.

Maverick223
February 24, 2010, 02:43 PM
Chuck has some good words on this round that makes sense to me.Chuck is full of it with is "inherently accurate" BS. Keep in mind that both 6.5mm and 7mm have better bullets available. Why go for the one in the middle, when it can be exceeded by the .280Rem., the best of the bunch IMO.

:)

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
February 24, 2010, 03:50 PM
bpl, interesting and thanks, but my eyes must be deceiving me. Their website says the 84L has an *aluminum* barrel:

http://test.kimberamerica.com/products/rifles/84l/

:eek: :scrutiny: :eek:

cal74
February 24, 2010, 04:56 PM
I've also heard that the new Redfield's POI changes when you switch power.

Been reading quite a few positive reviews on the Redfields from various sites from people that are actually using them an not just speculating. Haven't read any such thing about them changing point of impact and so far I've read they're tracking very well.

Whatever you do, just match the scope to the rifle. There are some hideously ugly mounts these days and you certainly don't need a hubble telescope on a nice trim lightweight.

jmr40
February 24, 2010, 05:07 PM
I'm sorry to hear about the Redfield problems. Initial reports I had read were all positive.

The copy in the Kimber ad has to be a misprint. No way they are making aluminum barrels. The Kimber is over his budget, but I have been extremely pleased with my Kimber Montana in 308. Mine comes in at under 6 lbs with scope and mounts. The barrel on mine is steel. It is the 2nd most accurate rifle in my safe.

Maverick223
February 24, 2010, 06:08 PM
...so far I've read they're tracking very well.Cite?

:)

TXHORNS
February 24, 2010, 06:18 PM
Well I am another satisfied Redfield customer. Mine works great at all powers. Of course I knew I was a guinea pig when I bought it but I couldn't be happier for that price.

I debated the Gloss/Matte scope decision too and even thought about shelling out the extra cash for a VX3 to get gloss. But when I compared scope finishes at the store I found that the gloss scope was shinier than the rifle itself which I did not like. I think the matte Leupolds looked better. The Featherweights are pretty but they dont have a real glossy finish, not enough to wear a glossy scope in my opinion. An A-bolt Medallion or something like that looks better with a Gloss scope. Of course this is purely a cosmetic and personal decision.

Another thing to consider is the Bushnell matte scopes have their rainguard finish which is semi-glossy and would match well. I just didnt want a Bushnell.

SqueegeeBob
February 24, 2010, 10:04 PM
Here is a pretty in-depth review that didn't show any POI shift and specifically mentions how well the Redfield tracks.

http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=20733

And here is one that did find some.
http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=21176

bpl
February 24, 2010, 11:01 PM
I'm sure that the text on the Kimber website was supposed to say aluminum bedded or something like that. They just added it as the 84L was not on their website last week. The article I read mentioned nothing about an aluminum barrel. You can google it. Its supposed to be exactly like the 84M, just in a long action. Also, no .280AI like I had heard. But, I also read somewhere about a lack of factory loaded proof rounds for development. Maybe with Nosler loading .280AI and supplying brass, they will produce it in .280AI next year.

Maverick223
February 24, 2010, 11:35 PM
Here is a pretty in-depth review that didn't show any POI shift and specifically mentions how well the Redfield tracks.The first thing that I always ask is does it appear (or is it blatantly obvious) that the writer was paid (advertising, company rep., or otherwise), or received free merchandise for the review. If so I discount the review. I am not saying that is the case with that review (but it could be, and seems to indicate that), but that is often the case with "best thing ever" reviews. The worst is gun rag reviews...often with an add on the following page for the item "reviewed".

:)

scchokedaddy
February 25, 2010, 04:59 AM
want a pretty gun look at 308 marlin express lever gun

cal74
February 25, 2010, 10:26 AM
Quote:
...so far I've read they're tracking very well.
Cite?

Most has come from 24hourcampfire, not knocking this site as it has it's merits but a lot more people over there have a lot more knowledge as a whole when it comes to optics & guns. Those reviews are from just everyday people with nothing to gain and I also question magazine reviews and what not when someone has a lot to gain by fluffing things up and maybe a lot to loose if they tell the whole truth.


And lets face it, a 150.00 scope in all likelihood isn't going to track as consistently as one costing 10x as much. More than anything else in life you tend to get what you pay for when it comes to optics.

Even the mid-lower end Leupolds aren't known for their consistent tracking. But once you get something sighted in, it really isn't all that important if it does track perfectly as long as it holds its zero.

I have 8-10 older Leupold friction adjust models that have never failed and have also never changed their point of aim. Several of them have scene countless miles in a four-wheeler scabbard or in a rifle scabbard on a horse.

MCgunner
February 25, 2010, 10:48 AM
For flat shooting, I guess, while I think it's a bit much for poor little whitetail around here, my 7 mag is sighted for a 250 yard zero and never tops 3" either way until it hits something just past 300. That's a pretty good point blank range in my mind. I prefer my .308 or my .257 Roberts for whitetail, though. Don't need no stinkin' magnum when I can't see more'n 150 yards, anyway. I've shot a few out west in the desert an mountains with that big 7, though. It gits 'er dun.

kludge
February 25, 2010, 11:05 AM
A. I would just download or use reduced recoil 30-06 loads (but I'm cheap that way). There are several fine bullets in the 130-140gr range, and would be very flat shooters out to 200 yards.

B. The .243, 25-06, .257 Roberts, .260, 6.5x55 will all do the job

C. The 7mm-08 is a great cartridge, and I certainly don't want to dissuage you from choosing the cartridge, but in a Featherweight might not be the reduced recoil gun you're looking for. I can't say (no first hand experience with the Featherweight in 7mm-08).

D. Burris Fullfield is a fine scope.

Maverick223
February 25, 2010, 11:52 AM
Those reviews are from just everyday people with nothing to gain and I also question magazine reviews and what not when someone has a lot to gain by fluffing things up and maybe a lot to loose if they tell the whole truth.That is the only thing that I trust (at least somewhat).

But once you get something sighted in, it really isn't all that important if it does track perfectly as long as it holds its zero.That depends upon the use and/or quarry, but many times you're right. IMO a fraction of an inch is acceptable for a hunting scope, but several inches is not. Of course every scope won't be the same, so I don't doubt that there are some good ones out there.

:)

cal74
February 25, 2010, 05:53 PM
That depends upon the use and/or quarry, but many times you're right. IMO a fraction of an inch is acceptable for a hunting scope, but several inches is not. Of course every scope won't be the same, so I don't doubt that there are some good ones out there.


Guess I didn't say what I implied doesn't apply to turret twisters, but most people twisting turrets aren't looking a scopes costing 200.00 or less.

I've been hunting for about 25 years and I'm just getting into a few scopes with turrets. First one is a Kahles with their multi turret and today just received a Leupold VX3 4.5-14 LR (30mm). It'll be on it's way to Leupold for their CDS turrets sometime in the near future. Both scopes are in a different class than what's being discussed.

Maverick223
February 25, 2010, 06:20 PM
First one is a Kahles with their multi turret and today just received a Leupold VX3 4.5-14 LR (30mm).Sorry to hear about your infliction...you can't go with a Redfield now...not after buying a Kahles. Nothing compares to Kahles glass save for even more costly Zeiss Victory, Swarovski Z6, Premier Reticles, Schmidt & Bender, and Hensoldt.

:)

SqueegeeBob
February 25, 2010, 10:34 PM
Well, I may have found a cheaper source for the rifle. Guess the only thing to do is wait.

SqueegeeBob
March 29, 2010, 02:41 AM
I thought I'd report back with the final word on this one and let you all know that I ended up being able to get one of the new FN model 70's in 7mm-08 with a Leupold VX-3 2.5-8x36mm on Leupold dual dovetail mounts for under $1,200 tax included.

I haven't gotten it out to the range yet, but stay tuned for a range report in the next couple of weeks. Thanks everyone for the great advice!

SqueegeeBob
March 29, 2010, 02:47 AM
Here's a photo! http://lh6.ggpht.com/_r03vTQlOe_g/S7A-wOClGbI/AAAAAAAAABk/6gr8ZqA25zY/s720/Win70.jpg

natman
March 29, 2010, 04:03 AM
One of the only misgivings I have about the model 70 is that none of my local shops have got one in 7-08, and the only place that will order one for me is Gander Mtn, which I've never dealt with before.
None of your local gunshops will special order a rifle? I am amazed to hear that. Most gunshops love special orders, where you get to make a sale using the customer's money.

C-grunt
March 29, 2010, 06:55 AM
SquegeeBob.... That is a very pretty rifle. I havent handled the new M70s yet but from the pictures they sure do look nice.

SqueegeeBob
March 29, 2010, 09:42 AM
None of your local gunshops will special order a rifle? I am amazed to hear that. Most gunshops love special orders, where you get to make a sale using the customer's money.
Yup, the only local place that would order one was Gander Mountain, and they wanted about $100 more than anybody else. The locally owned places just told me to come back in a month or two and check then.

Uncle Mike
March 29, 2010, 10:48 AM
Nothing compares to Kahles glass


NC Star...BSA...:neener::evil:

hehehehehe:o

mgkdrgn
March 29, 2010, 10:56 AM
If you are willing to handload ... why not just "tone down" that existing 30-06 a bit?

Art Eatman
March 29, 2010, 11:21 AM
Thanks for the final update. Let us know how it performs.

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