Can revolvers cut for moon clips be used without them?


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megatronrules
February 22, 2010, 07:32 PM
The title says it all but I'm asking about revolvers chambered in revolver calibers say .38/.357,can these guns fire and extract with out the moon clips? thanks.

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W.E.G.
February 22, 2010, 07:34 PM
No.

If you want to use the "same gun," you should get an extra cylinder that is not cut for the moons.

GP100man
February 22, 2010, 08:02 PM
some machinists leave a lip on the outer edge & fit the clips inside of this , if this is the case then you can use it without the clips if not no.

kjtasker
February 22, 2010, 08:09 PM
I asked smith wesson when I called about the 640 pro series and the rep told me its fine to use without the clips, just repeating what he told me but i'd say you will be fine loading them without. No first hand experience here.

W.E.G.
February 22, 2010, 09:39 PM
I believe I stand corrected.

See http://www.tkcustom.com/
Machined cylinders for use of Moonclips can still be used with or without Moonclips, just as the revolver was designed & manufactured by S&W.

7.62 Nato
February 22, 2010, 10:09 PM
Yes you can. And this is where I ordered mine from also. http://www.tkcustom.com/ He also does machining. He's very good to deal with. Got a question, give him a call.

mesinge2
February 22, 2010, 10:20 PM
Related to this thread, can a revolver that is chambered for 45 LC be machined for moonclips for a 45 ACP?

Nomad
February 22, 2010, 10:20 PM
I had a S&W 627 8 shot Performance Center that was cut in such a way it could be used with or without moon clips. I'm guessing, as someone mentioned earlier, it depends on how the cylinder is cut.

Nomad
February 22, 2010, 10:23 PM
mesinge2 - The answer is yes. Here is a link to a guy that can do it.

www.moonclips.com

7.62 Nato
February 22, 2010, 10:26 PM
Related to this thread, can a revolver that is chambered for 45 LC be machined for moonclips for a 45 ACP?
From what I understand, if your cylinder is not recessed for the 45LC then you can fire 45ACP through it with moon clips. I believe the bore of the 45LC is larger than the 45ACP so don't expect much accuracy.

Double check with someone who knows for sure before you do this.

Aah, I see Nomad types faster than me. And note both links in this thread are the same company.

smoking357
February 22, 2010, 10:28 PM
I have a 25. It uses moon clips. I regularly drop plain 'ole ACP rounds in there and knock them out with a dowel rod.

mesinge2
February 22, 2010, 10:48 PM
Thanks, I have a Taurus 45LC snub that I would like to convert to 45 ACP

Drail
February 23, 2010, 10:02 PM
Some will. Some won't. I have an old 625-2 that won't. Everyone else I have met that has one claims theirs will. Headspace, firing pin protrusion and varying case lengths will determine if it will or won't. I can't see any reason to not use the moon clips all of the time.

Elvishead
February 24, 2010, 02:45 AM
W.E.G.

I believe I stand corrected.

I'm glad you cought that, I was going to correct you.

Now about the 45acp. I'm pretty sure all the new S&W's can be used with or without clips, or at least a few select model's.

My S&W 627, and my model 327 (.357) can use either way.

savit260
February 24, 2010, 09:21 AM
Related to this thread, can a revolver that is chambered for 45 LC be machined for moonclips for a 45 ACP?

Pinnacle does such a conversion.



http://www.pinnacle-guns.com/revolver.asp

PT1911
February 24, 2010, 09:50 AM
my 608 cut for them works pretty well, but has had some light strike issues in single action, so depending on the gun, that could be an issue.

rcmodel
February 24, 2010, 02:26 PM
Now about the 45acp. I'm pretty sure all the new S&W's can be used with or without clips, or at least a few select model's.Actually, they can't.

All S&W .45 ACP revolvers beginning with the 1917, made prior to the frame mounted firing pin could fire single rounds because they were always head-spaced correctly.

The newer guns with the frame mounted firing pins almost all have excess headspace without the clips and will misfire badly.

rc

Jim K
February 24, 2010, 09:32 PM
The correct answer is that it depends on the gun. The old Model 1917 revolvers (Colt or S&W) have the rear of the cylinder cut forward so there is room for the half moon clips. They will fire .45 ACP without clips but will not extract. If converted to something like the .45 Colt without a new cylinder, they would have excess headspace.

But most of the modern ways of machining a cylinder to accept clips for the original revolver (rimmed) round retain enough of the original cylinder to offer case support without clips. In other words, the clips are only for simultaneous loading, and proper headspacing does not depend on them.

Jim

Elvishead
February 25, 2010, 01:19 PM
But most of the modern ways of machining a cylinder to accept clips for the original revolver (rimmed) round retain enough of the original cylinder to offer case support without clips. In other words, the clips are only for simultaneous loading, and proper headspacing does not depend on them.

Jim

So, are you agreeing with me on my statment?

I do know of at least the Model 625 scandium model based off the 327 R8 (N-Frame) 8 shot .357 (X8) doesn't need moon clip's to shoot 45acp's. At least as I recall.

earplug
February 25, 2010, 02:17 PM
My three revolvers will fire loose rounds just fine. Extraction can be done with a fingernail or pencil/pen.

Jim K
February 26, 2010, 03:35 PM
Hi, Elivshead,

Actually we are talking about two different situations here. The OP was talking about some modern revolvers (mostly in .38/.357) that have been modified to load with [full] moon clips. The cylinders on those are almost always cut so that there is part of the original cylinder left at the back to support the rim of the case and allow normal headspacing and extraction. The change to the cylinder is to allow clips to be used for quick reloading, since they are not necessary for extraction of fired cases or unfired rounds.

The other situation is where the cartridge is a rimless auto pistol type, like the .45 ACP. In those guns, the whole rear of the cylinder is cut down and the cartridges headspace on a shoulder in the chamber (as they do in an auto pistol). In those revolvers, the cartridges will fire, but empty cases or unfired rounds can't be extracted using the normal extractor. They can be picked out with a fingernail, pushed out with a pencil or other tool, or might simply fall out when the revolver is pointed upward.

Some revolvers have been made with special extractors that will work normally with 9mm (9x19) cartridges, but they have not generally been accepted, being made for special police contracts.

Jim

Occam's Razor
February 26, 2010, 06:37 PM
The correct answer is that it depends on the gun. The old Model 1917 revolvers (Colt or S&W) have the rear of the cylinder cut forward so there is room for the half moon clips. They will fire .45 ACP without clips but will not extract. If converted to something like the .45 Colt without a new cylinder, they would have excess headspace.

But most of the modern ways of machining a cylinder to accept clips for the original revolver (rimmed) round retain enough of the original cylinder to offer case support without clips. In other words, the clips are only for simultaneous loading, and proper headspacing does not depend on them.

JimSome of the early Colt 1917s had the cylinders bored straight through so half-moon clips were necessary in those. The accuracy was horrible so they started actually chambering them like the Smith & Wessons.

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