[cleardiddion]

So I was watching the news today and apparantly Florida has just opened up a new season for hunting nonindigenous snakes such as Boa Constricters which have been plaguing the everglades from sometime in March till April.

Now, that got me thinking. How the heck does one hunt for snake and what does one use? I'm kinda interested in this but the only snakes that I've ever had to really off have been cottonmouths and rattlers from back home (CO) with shovels or .22's.

I was just wondering if anyone had any sort of insight into this sort of deal.

[Pumpkinheaver]

I'd probably use a shotgun!

[cleardiddion]

Oh, also would you eat the snake?
I mean, I've been taught that unless it's somethig absolutely foul like a turkey vulture or skunk or something like that you should eat whatever creature you shoot. I've had rattlesnake before but eating a Boa seems a bit...odd to me.

[pat86323]

i wish i was in that situation......something tells me that the snakeskin could be sold for a decent price.

[W.E.G.]

Shotgun seems like a good idea if you aren't concerned about ruining the hide.

Otherwise a head shot from a .22 should have no trouble penetrating snake-skull.

[jimmyraythomason]

I don't think the snakes have gotten any tougher since the last thread on them so I guess I'd still use a shotgun. And I WON'T be eating it!

[LEVRLOVR]

Bet Snake steak would probably be pretty tasty.

[NCdrummer]

Shotgun! Hard to miss.

[Art Eatman]

Roll strips of meat in flour or corn meal batter and deep fry briefly. About like chicken strips at KFC.

[bad_aim_billy]

How the heck does one hunt for snake and what does one use?

I would expect a belly crawl through thick grass would be the preferred method of stalking.

As far as what firearm to use, that's a no-brainer: Colt Python.

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Not the anaconda?

Seriously, I'd think something like #4, #3, #2, or #1 buck from a 12 ga would work well on the moving critters. Maybe even BBB, T, etc.

[Nick5182]

I'd use a shotgun or handgun, if it were me. Now, what ya gotta do, is get yourself one of them 15-20 foot burmese pythons and have someone make you (or do it yourself) some custom snake skin grips and snake skin holster. That's what I'd do.

[chas08]

I'd have to go with a Shotgun as my weapon of choice here, probably with any shot from BB on up to #1 buck for the larger snakes. My question is; why have a season on them if they are non-indigenous? It seems to me that you would want to try your best to wipe them out yearound.

[jimmyraythomason]

why have a season on them if they are non-indigenous? It seems to me that you would want to try your best to wipe them out yearound.
I would think so too. If they move into my neighborhood the season on them will always be open!

[HGUNHNTR]

I think a shovel would be a better bet than a shotgun. Just cut its head off and your done.

[jimmyraythomason]

I think a shovel would be a better bet than a shotgun. Just cut its head off and your done.
Killed very many 20 foot pythons this way HGH?

[chas08]

I think a shovel would be a better bet than a shotgun
I've killed plenty Copperheads and a few Rattlers wth a shovel or a garden hoe. But I'm not sure I would want to take on a Boa or a Python, with any size to him, that lightly armed unless there just wasn't anything else to use. :eek:
Killed very many foot pythons this way HGH?
OK, I'll bite; What's a foot python? (LOL)

[jimmyraythomason]

Sorry chas08,the numbers lock had been turned off on my keyboard(4 year old grand daughter does it when she plays Deerhunter). Fixed it.

[chas08]

OK, I'll bite; What's a foot python? (LOL)
I thought there might be a number missing there. I really wasn't being a "Smart A_ _" . I've watched those shows on Animal Planet dealing with Floridas snake problem. Those folks run up against some "Really Big" snakes. If I were to hunt them on purpose, you can bet there will be a 12ga. involved.:D
I think a shovel would be a better bet than a shotgun. Just cut its head off and your done.
That would be like using a shovel to amputate a mans leg at the knee while he's putting up a heckuva fight. (LOL)

[HGUNHNTR]

No I haven't killed many boas this way, but these aren't mythical beasts either.

Well first off they aren't poisonous, and secondly I doubt any size of snake would live after being clubbed with a shovel.

These aren't fast animals were talking about here, just cut its durn head off and be done.

BTW, I have had to put down a 600 pound heifer that was hit by a car with a shovel. It was all I had and it did the job, would I have rather had a rifle......yes.

[pat86323]

oh hghhntr, dont you know that clubbing them wont work. A snake is not dead as long as its head is attached (not always true but a pretty good rule to live by)

you dont think they are fast? they take down deer sized prey? i bet they are faster then you if they want to be.

and as for being not poisonous? ever been bit by a 4 foot bull snake? they arent venemous either but that frickin hurts. I bet a 15 foot python could break an arm with a bite.

and yes you can kill many things with a shovel......but if you were going to hunt them it would probably be adviseable to not carry a shovel. At the very least get some of those extendable pruners. then you can try to remove the head (IMO the only way to ensure a snake is dead)

[ShadyScott999]

The corkscrew on my Swiss Army knife. :neener:

That is what a real man would use.:rolleyes:

[rswartsell]

pat86323 +1,

Coming originally from venomous snake country, that is exactly what my grandfather taught me. Including a demonstration that a timber rattler recently cut neatly in two at the middle by a rifle could still clamp fangs on a wood chip.

P.S. I like the idea of a tight pattern shotgun but I have a hard time believing you need shot bigger than 4 or 5.

[jimmyraythomason]

These aren't fast animals were talking about here You don't watch much "Animal Planet",do you?

[rswartsell]

12 ga full choke and #5 pheasant loads would be my choice.

[jimmyraythomason]

I don't really think that matters too much when you have teeth like these.

[rcmodel]

I'm thinking the only sporting way to hunt 20' pythons in the everglades is the way Marlin Perkins & Jim of the Jungle always did it.

You jump out of the boat and wrestle them bare handed!

(You do get to carry a 12" Bowie Knife if you are Jim, but are forbidden to use it.)

rc

[jimmyraythomason]

Did you ever notice rc that only Jim jumped out of the boat? Marlin ALWAYS stayed out of harms way(well he was very old at the time).

[41magsnub]

.22 pistol with rat shot!


kidding! I think that would just piss off a big snake!

[chas08]

the way Marlin Perkins & Jim of the Jungle always did it.
I loved that show. I would have loved to see and hear what ended up on the cutting room floor. :D:D:D

[HGUNHNTR]

These are ambush predators folks, they might kill deer but they aren't running them down. Good gravy, take a look at their means of locomotion. To the poster that bet a python could out run me......yeah right. :) Pure hilarious statements in this thread.

If I had to use a firearm, it would be the taurus judge and buckshot----as much as I don't like that revolver.

[Art Eatman]

I'd go for a semi-auto shotgun. Extended mag and short barrel. Modified or Full, since there won't be much spread at what I figure would be a likely range. 12-gauge. Probably at least #2 shot; maybe larger, depending on what successful locals have learned.

How to hunt? Dunno. Drift along slow in likely-looking habitat, I guess.

[rcmodel]

Did you ever notice rc that only Jim jumped out of the boat?I do recall seeing one show when Marlin did jump in on top of an anaconda.

Dang near squeezed him like a tube of toothpaste & drowned him before the crew got it off.

rc

[jimmyraythomason]

HGUNHTR, you may very well get to put your theory to the test since you live in Georgia. FWIW, between you and an anaconda in a race,my money is on the anaconda(I hope you survive though).

[jimmyraythomason]

Ever seen this? <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5q9-yHzT-S8>

[pat86323]

let me clarify, they may not be able to outrun you over say 1/4 mile and im not even sure about that. However at "shovel range" they can strike faster then most humans can even react. Growing up a buddy of mine had a python and i was always shocked at how fast it could strike at a rabbit. They can strike quite a bit further then you think they ought to be able to. If a deer ever got caught close range i highly doubt any human could dream of getting away. We all know that deer are extremely quick especially when it comes to reacting to something (ie an arrow fired at them that they have been known to dodge)

[oneounceload]

The snakes in the Everglades in question have been killing alligators. They have no natural predators and are breeding rapidly and spreading throughout the area. They were introduced by uninformed folks who let them go into the wild when they got too big.

An airboat to get to the area, plus a shotgun or similar would work very nicely. You'll be hunting them in the same locales as alligators, water moccasins, and every imaginable biting insect.

Go have fun..........

[rcmodel]

I always thought if I had an air-boat in Florida, I would like to have a 20 ga Marine Magnum 870.
If Remington would just make such a thing.

I had a 5' Timber Rattler try to board my bass boat one time.
Did you know they can swim about the same top speed as a trolling motor!

Did you know beating them with a fishing rod just makes them very PO'd, and more determined to get in the boat with you.

rc

[mlkx4]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uqg3Pg2M9WU

[jimmyraythomason]

An airboat to get to the area, They are having problems with them in rural areas too. Just step out of your car......

[HGUNHNTR]

between you and an anaconda in a race,my money is on the anaconda(I hope you survive though).
__________________


For the record the fastest snake on land is the black mamba. To the best effort of my google fu, I have found recorded speeds of up to 8 miles per hour. The anaconda is about 1-2 miles per hour. I'm pretty sure most of us could manage those speeds long enough to get out of harms way. FWIW I am an avid marathon runner, and feel confident in my ability to top 8mph no problem.

Remember these critters aren't trying to make a meal of us and that makes killing them much easier. I understand wanting to have a shotgun, I just wouldn't feel ill prepared with a nice sharp long handled shovel.

[jimmyraythomason]

^^^Be that as it may HGH, I'll still bet on the snake (IF HE WANTS YOU).

[HGUNHNTR]

^^ Like ya said, we may get our chance!

[jimmyraythomason]

Yeah we may do it but rest assured the only time I'll get out a shovel is to bury what the 12ga left!

[Sebastian the Ibis]

I doubt any size of snake would live after being clubbed with a shovel.

I'll bet if you hit a grizzly perfectly in the back of the neck with a shovel you could take it out too, however I'm not going to try it.

[pat86323]

Even if you can outrun one in a race i highly doubt if you got inside its strike radius and it felt you were a threat i think it could have you coiled up and as good as dead before you could attempt running. I know this is a much smaller snake it is described as being 7 feet. But it moves on that rat like lightning. I think if a 15 footer moved at 1/3 that speed a human would be in trouble.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5uRTrzz4Vo

[pat86323]

or better yet look at mlkx4's link......if you can outrun that (that is on the long side of shovel range) you are the frickin man!!!!

[pwillie]

I have dispatched snakes with sticks,shovels,hoes,and guns....guns are best! Oh! I forgot a 6 foot bush hog is even better!

[jim147]

I have dispatched snakes with sticks,shovels,hoes,and guns....guns are best! Oh! I forgot a 6 foot bush hog is even better!

The wife asked me why I ran the tractor into the trees.

I said that big snake didn't die the first time I ran him over.:)

jim

[hirundo82]

On Sunday night,[i]Nature[i] on PBS had a show about invasive reptiles in Florida, and I was thinking that a hunting season (or even better no closed season, like we have in TX for invasive species) would be the best way to control them.

Most of the show was about Burmese pythons in the Everglades. The naturalists would just walk right up next to the snake and pick them up; they don't seem to go anywhere in a hurry. I was thinking you could just walk up to them and shoot them in the head with a .22 pistol.

Some of the news articles about the hunt say mercury levels in the meat may make them unsafe to eat, but I like the idea about making a holster and a pair of boots out of one.

[chas08]

I just wouldn't feel ill prepared with a nice sharp long handled shovel.
Let's see, a 12' plus snake, with a head the size of a baseball glove, and a neck the size of a mans lower leg, and the capability of striking half its body length at the speed of "Holy Sh_ t". I'd feel inadequately prepared with a shovel, even with the longest fiberglass handle. As for how to hunt them, I'd stake a dog, preferably a Pit Bull, out for bait on a "snake crossing" and wait. Or follow a bunch of guys with shovels into the mangroves, and hope I get lucky. :D ROFLMAO :D

[~SG~]

I have no clue, the only one I ever saw that was killed by man was killed with a Kenworth pulling a full chipvan........ now that sucker was HUGE.

[chas08]

The naturalists would just walk right up next to the snake and pick them up; they don't seem to go anywhere in a hurry.
You have to take into consideration that the majority of these snakes were human raised. So they have no reason to fear us. They are also long lived. The best thing for Florida to do, if they want to get rid of the problem, is to open the season year round an put a bounty on them.

[rswartsell]

OK, say they are huge. From what we have learned they are incredibly quick and impossible to wrestle at "striking range", let's say 12' for a monster. Or heck, let's go out to 20 or 30'. From 10 yards the shot column of a 12 ga #5 pheasant load is pretty impressive still, and the anatomy of even one of the internet nightmares shown on this thread are not nearly bear (or hog) tough. The extra pellets will be handy and my bet is they penetrate well enough for sure. 3" mag if it makes you feel better but my bet, it's not necessary.

A 12 ga at 10 yds and you will be ripping flesh off of the baddest python like grabbing chunks with your hand.

I guess the trick is staying at 5-10 yards. You need a strategy that keeps you out of knife fighting distance or even 00 buck and you could be screwed. Drag that bad boy out in even a small open and 12 ga will hammer him.

[jimmyraythomason]

A 12 ga at 10 yds NOW we're talking!

[Kevin77]

Stake 10 yapping lap dogs out in the swamp and when the yapping stops shoot the snake. Radical enviromentalists and animal rights protesters will also work but remember not to shoot untill the yapping stops.

[JEB]

i would be using a shotgun, 12ga with some #4 turkey loads. after i got enough to make me some snazzy boots and a belt to match, i would like to try setting up some bait and shoot them in the head with a judo point.....more sportsman like i suppose.

if you want a challenge you could try a handgun....i guess the judge finally found something its almost good for!

[jimmyraythomason]

after i got enough to make me some snazzy boots and a belt to match So what are you going to do with the remaining 98% of the snake?

[pwillie]

44 Mag-10 1/2 inch barrel SA Ruger Super Blackhawk! Head shot would be sporting. I have done it many times on big Timber rattlers.......30 foot minimum!

[Fisherman_48768]

I'm surprise that nobody has commented on the fact that Florida wants to make money on the snake problem. First the state complains that the snakes are a problem, then they open a very limited season and charge for a permit. Makes no sense to me why anyone would want to buy a license to kill a snake that is a problem in the first place. The state should be paying a bounty for every one of these snakes taken out of the wild.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/02/22/1493525/python-hunting-season-set-for.html
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. -- State wildlife officials have created a special python hunting season to try to stop the spread of the nonnative snakes throughout the Everglades.

The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission says anyone with a hunting license who pays a $26 permit fee can kill the reptiles from March 8 to April 17 on state-managed lands around the Everglades in South Florida.

The season is open for Burmese and Indian pythons, African rock pythons, green anacondas and Nile monitor lizards.

Thousands of the nonnative Burmese pythons are believed to be in the region, upsetting the natural balance of the ecosystem.

Wildlife officials on Monday trained a group of hunters on how to identify, stalk, capture and remove the reptiles.

[PT1911]

anaconda's are slow and clumsy on land but rarely show that as they stay in the water the great majority of the time where they are FAST... Boas are not near as clumsy on land, neither are pythons, they move much better than most anticipate and with all that motion of their bodies as they move, they do not offer a great target... add that to the 1/3 the length of their body strike and you have something dangerous. Think about it... an 18 foot python can strike 6 feet... I am staying out of shovel range... their strike is MUCH faster than their A to B movement.... I dont have the numbers, but we will call it blink of an eye speed.

[627PCFan]

Keep your range at 15 feet from the head. Cylnder choke shotgun, #4-#2 2 3/4oz shell to the head. Done done and done.

BTW I wear a size 10.5 boot.

[BullsAndClays]

I have a six-foot boa constrictor, and the teeth are quite long. She became quite excited for her food once and struck her own body, and pulled one of her teeth out in the process. I'm glad that she 'likes' me as I don't really want to feel her teeth grinding against my bones.

Really, its not the burmese python that I'd be afraid of; there are reticulated pythons out there as well, which are reputed maneaters in my parent's homeland. I won't bother arguing whether they really are or not, and the ErrorNet is full of altered photos, however, the Everglades reptile house has one that eats a 50lb pig once a month with no problem. I am betting that some hunter will be taking a son/daughter along that may be of that size.

Based on the observations of my own constrictor, I'd take a shotgun!

[white29]

Nile monitors in the Glades? Now those you really need to worry about. These are the second largest lizard in the world (Komodo dragon is 1st,same family)and their razor teeth are full of bacteria so nasty that you can die from it. I once helped a guy feed a wild caught six footer that was thrashing its tail in an oval cattle water tank. My job was to weild the baseball bat while he threw a full sized rabbit to it. He told me not to hesitate to use it if the monitor came through the top of te tank. Thankfully it was more interested in that poor bunny which was torn apart pronto. Oh yeah, that's a nasty critter.as mentioned earlier Reticulated pythons ain't nothing to mess with either.

[Art Eatman]

It's been a year or two, but I recall reading about the monitors being found near residential areas in southwest Florida. Around Fort Myers, IIRC.

[jimmyraythomason]

Kill 'em all! Snakes and lizards big enough to be dangerous won't live around my grandchildren as long as I'm alive.

[rswartsell]

Glad your pet Boa "likes" you? Uhhh, I'd be careful with that assumption. Reptiles aren't known for forming affectionate relationships or being very sentimental, that's why a lot of "pets" have ended up dumped in the 'glades.

[BullsAndClays]

I was kidding about the 'like' part; I treat it as a wild animal, and not as a dog. I made the choice to buy this animal and keep it caged around 15 years ago; long before I was married with children. I will keep her healthy, but caged, until she dies because I made the commitment years ago and am responsible for her until then.

After years of keeping this animal, I've pretty much changed my tune as to whether or not people should own them. Although many of the animals in Glades were released after hurricanes, I'm quite positive that many people were just releasing them into the wild. Hell, someone released an alligator into someone's pond in SE Ohio when lived on the other side of WV.

[jimmyraythomason]

We have a known group of alligators in Inland Lake just a few miles from here,N.C.Alabama. I would not be surprised to to learn of released pet boas already here as well.

[paintballdude902]

id probably take a taurus judge and a 20 gauge shotgun. the taurus id alternate .410 and .45colt as a primary but if i couldnt get close enough for the pistol id use the full length shotty.

any limit?

[Ben86]

My go to gun for snakes is a ruger 10/22. Although for man eating snakes I'd have to use my 12ga with at least #6 shotshells. Maybe even high brass. You don't want to give those things the chance to get mad and do something about it (to you). If it doesn't have ears, you can't trust it! :)

[dogrunner]

Art, those water monitors have been killed in areas of Volusia Co., east of Orlando.........friend of mine was a LEO for the Deland PD & shot one in that town. My understanding is that there is a breeding population in the St. Johns river basin...........mayhaps the recent cold snap did some good with them tho as I understand it wreaked havoc on the Iguanas further south.

By the way, the comment on the F&G 26 buck fee was right on.........some states have real wildlife management organizations...........we have FF&W............quite similar in effectivness to our Department of Children and Families that's always involved in some scandal or another...........oh, well, I'm very sure that those snakes are really here to stay.

[Schutzen]

For all you would be snake killers, maybe you should check your snake physiology. I believe the central nervous system of a constrictor is 12-18" behind its head. To sum that up, if you shoot the head you have a blind headless constrictor flopping about wrapping itself around everything with in the length of it's body. Sever the head from the body 12-18" behind the nose and the snake dies quickly without flopping about.

[jimmyraythomason]

if you shoot the head you have a blind headless constrictor flopping about wrapping itself around everything with in the length of it's body. Admittedly I have never shot a boa,anaconda or python but I have shot other constrictors in the past(chicken (grey rat) snakes) king snakes,etc in the head and never experienced that type of reaction.

[~SG~]

Admittedly I have never shot a boa,anaconda or python but I have shot other constrictors in the past(chicken (grey rat) snakes) king snakes,etc in the head and never experienced that type of reaction.
Black snakes will, dang things will flop and twist till dark.

Dad took the head off one AND threw it in a mud hole and it still kept that water churning for a long time.

[jimmyraythomason]

twist till dark.
Or 'till it thunders whichever comes first.

[~SG~]

Or 'till it thunders whichever comes first.
ok, I say dark cause I ain't staying out to see if twists after dark LOL

Thunders? never heard that one

[jimmyraythomason]

LOL,actually that pertains to a snapping turtles bite. If it bites down on you,it won't let go until it thunders. I have never put that to the test though.

[~SG~]

LOL,actually that pertains to a snapping turtles bite. If it bites down on you,it won't let go until it thunders. I have never put that to the test though.
oh yeah, I have heard that from Granny before about turtles. I ain't testing that one either!!

Here I go hi-jacking threads again, from 20 ft boas to snapping turtles
Sorrry guys

[jimmyraythomason]

from 20 ft boas to snapping turtles
well, it isn't THAT big of a jump.

[~SG~]

idk, whats the biggest snapping turtle you've seen?

[jimmyraythomason]

Biggest snapping turtle? I don't know how much it weighed but it walked off with a 200lb man standing on it's back.

[~SG~]

dang, that one might have been to tough to eat LOL

[chas08]

idk, whats the biggest snapping turtle you've seen?
2 1/2 feet in diameter east to west and a neck the size of a medium mans forearm. I didn't mess with it. I was Bass fishing at the time.

[SHvar]

Most of the snake hunting Ive done over the years (we used to get rattlesnake permits to find them, check them out, and enjoy the outdoors) was done by hand. If you are killing boa constrictors, pythons, anacondas, etc then even a .22 to the head will stop them cold, snakes are rather easy to kill, and are vulnerable to predators easily unlike what action and scifi movies make them out to being unstopable monsters.
Heck use something bigger if you want, the skins can be worth alot to leather makes. Also snake skins are easy to harvest, and snake tastes good (used to eat alot of them in the south, but up north there are very few left, I leave them alone to live their lives and do what nature designed them to do).

[BlayGlock]

You should use a Colt King Cobra .357 to take them down!

[cleardiddion]

Another report came up last night-ish. Apparantly the boas and whatnot like to sun themselves on/near the shores of bodies of water this time of year. What they said was to go get them then.

[rswartsell]

Thanks jimmyray, you take me "back home". Hadn't heard that "'til it thunders" since I was getting wholesome advice from elders such as "Don't skinny dip in a snappin' turtle pond".

[camoman33935]

What would yall do about the cobras that are out there? and yes there are some...unfortunately...I'm not goin to hunt in Big Cypress anytime soon lol

[jimmyraythomason]

"Don't skinny dip in a snappin' turtle pond". Heck fire! EVERYBODY know that!

[Mitch from LA]

The amount of misinformation in this thread is truly impressive. The comments regarding snapping turtles (the particular species isn't specified) are particularly ridiculous. I'm glad Florida has decided to take more of a proactive approach to its invasive python problem. Florida is a mecca for invasive herpetofauna, which is a shame because the state has so many declining endemic species.

[jimmyraythomason]

The comments regarding snapping turtles Care to specify the ridiculous posts (other than the ones that were intended to be silly)?

[Art Eatman]

There have been reliable reports from time to time through the decades of snappers weighing in the neighborhood of 150 pounds. Not often, of course.

A very large one was trapped or killed in the southern Chattahoochee River above the Florida line (where the name changes to Appalachicola River) which had a stone arrowhead or dart point in the shell; this was back in the early 1900s. The guesstimated age was above 100 years.

I teased a fifteen-pounder with a pencil-sized stick, one time. He snapped; reminded me of the time a barracuda took the middle out of a kingfish that I was just before gaffing. The snapper created a three-piece stick. :)

[rcmodel]

This one reportedly weighs 45 pounds.
And I can guarantee ya, you do not want it latching onto any body parts you want to keep.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c5/Alligator_Snapping_Turtle2.jpg/240px-Alligator_Snapping_Turtle2.jpg

Like Art, I have had even small 10 pound ones I caught while fishing clip off fair size hickey switches with one bite.

rc

[Mitch from LA]

If the pic works, you'll see that I know a thing or two about snapping turtles. I did my thesis research on Alligator Snapping Turtles Macrochelys temminckii and I have a good deal of experience working with Eastern Snapping Turtles Chelydra serpentina. The one in the pic (assuming it works weighs 110 pounds and the dimensions of such an animal do not fit with some of the dimensions estimated in this thread.

[jimmyraythomason]

Mitch,with all due respect, you still haven't told us what you disagree with.

[Mitch from LA]

Jimmy Ray,

It seems I've confused this thread with another which quoted the carapace width of a snapping turtle to be roughly 2.5 feet which would be ridiculously large. My apologies for the confusion, that one is on me.

In regards to the monitor lizards, the Nile Monitor is quite large though not the second largest lizard in the world (I forget the name, but I believe it is a monitor lizard from Borneo). Like many animals, they are aggressive when cornered, but they are far more likely to run away from you given the chance.

Also several people seem to be lumping boas and pythons into one broad classification. While similar, they are in different families. Pythons are more slender, lay eggs, and are generally more aggressive. Boas (including anacondas) are larger, give live birth, and are generally less aggressive. I am also leery of the average hunter being able to differentiate between invasive snake species and native snake species.

Hope that clears things up.

[jimmyraythomason]

I am also leery of the average hunter being able to differentiate between invasive snake species and native snake species If the snake is over 10 feet long it ain't a native species. If these snakes manage to migrate to my neck of Alabama, there will be no need to differentiate between the species. I see it,it dies.

[BlayGlock]

Mitch that is the biggest snapping turtle I have ever seen. Holy cow!

[Mitch from LA]

Jimmy Ray,

Indigo snakes, which are in bad shape, get very large (>8ft) and when a snake is coiled, as they often are, it is difficult to estimate total size. Also, it's not as though these snakes are born 10 ft long. If you focus population control specifically on large adult snakes you are not addressing a huge part of the problem. Personally, I think the ability of these large oonstrictors to migrate to more temperate portions of the US has been greatly exaggerated so hopefully you'll never have to worry about them in Alabama.

[Mitch from LA]

Mitch that is the biggest snapping turtle I have ever seen. Holy cow!
That my friend is Slippery Pete a large ornery male who now wears a radio-transmitter (AKA bling). He definitely gave me all I could handle and then some.

[Art Eatman]

Google for "Komodo Dragon". The world's largest lizard. Have on occasion killed and eaten people. Mean, cranky, ornery carnivores!

NatGeo periodically reruns a program on them...

[fireside44]

I'm surprise that nobody has commented on the fact that Florida wants to make money on the snake problem. First the state complains that the snakes are a problem, then they open a very limited season and charge for a permit.

I was thinking the same thing. Our gov't really has become a bunch of money grubbers, charging for a permit for a species that is VERY detrimental to the habitat of the Everglades (among others), which are protected. Couldn't help but think "greed". Should be free, just like killing hogs, you are doing nature and the state of FL a serious favor.

It seems I've confused this thread with another which quoted the carapace width of a snapping turtle to be roughly 2.5 feet which would be ridiculously large.

I visited friends in Ely MN some years ago and they had the carcass of a snapper in the back of a pick up that was very similar if not a bit larger in size to the specimen Mitch posted. They were blown away (as was I) and so grabbed it to show everyone else back at the house.

Ely is near the Boundary Waters, which is full of lakes and very remote. I wouldn't doubt the possibility of 150+ lb monsters back there. I have seen some pretty large living specimens, just never quite the size of the one they had in the back of that pickup.

[Mitch from LA]

Google for "Komodo Dragon". The world's largest lizard. Have on occasion killed and eaten people. Mean, cranky, ornery carnivores!

NatGeo periodically reruns a program on them...
That's the risk you take when you hang out in the personal space of a 300lb carnivore, with a bad attitude and a mouth full of nasty.

[SASS#23149]

In the case of hunting large constrictors....

Who is hunting who????

A large one drops out of a tree..yep,they climb...and knocks u down,you are in deep kimshee.

I also don't understand having a 'season' on them..well,if you have to buy a license or tag,there ya go.....money !

[jimmyraythomason]

My prediction is that the state will drop the fee and open up year 'round hunting for the big snakes. All it's going to take is a few attacks on people or pets and enough of a public outcry.

[Art Eatman]

I lose track of what's been said, where, since this same thread is running over at TFL. Anyhow, remember that the license fee and season only apply to a limited amount of state land. I'm guessing it's multiple-use, and maybe they want to control how many of who are where, when. But, just guessing...

[TedP]

It is $26, hardly a huge money making scheme.

I think you are right Art. The places you need the extra permit for are Wildlife Management Areas, not private land.

I guess FWC is saying they are not safe to eat though. High mercury levels.

[jimmyraythomason]

The places you need the extra permit for are Wildlife Management Areas, not private land.
that makes a little more sense.

[hirundo82]

Plus the place the the snakes are worst is probably Everglades National Park, where of course hunting is banned. That means snake removal there is being taken care of by people paid with our tax dollars.

[Quoheleth]

See my previous answer to this question:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6329040&postcount=8

I hate snakes [shudder]. Too many close calls over the years. Never bit, but some were "breathing distance" misses.

Q

[BullsAndClays]

Mitch, that pic of the snapper is awesome. I took the 400/500 level herpetology class at Marshall U. in WV. One of the master's students was doing research with the hellbender at the time, so I got to see some of his work, but they aren't anywhere near as dangerous as the snapping turtle.

[Mitch from LA]

Mitch, that pic of the snapper is awesome. I took the 400/500 level herpetology class at Marshall U. in WV. One of the master's students was doing research with the hellbender at the time, so I got to see some of his work, but they aren't anywhere near as dangerous as the snapping turtle.
Does Thomas K. Pauley teach that one? I've seen some folks from Marshall present their research at a few conferences.

[tiger rag]

What part of Louisiana Mitch?

[Mitch from LA]

Funroe, though I originally hail from a small town on I-12 called Holden.

[SHvar]

"In regards to the monitor lizards, the Nile Monitor is quite large though not the second largest lizard in the world (I forget the name, but I believe it is a monitor lizard from Borneo). Like many animals, they are aggressive when cornered, but they are far more likely to run away from you given the chance."

Ah, my reptile specialty, monitor lizards, Ive been a long time keeper and was breeding them once.
The second LONGEST by a few rare examples could be the crocodile monitor from New Guinea, the record by official length (not by weight, mass, or overal size) was a water monitor that grew to 10ft 4 inches but was nowhere near the adult weight of a komodo dragon. There are a few species of monitors that grow to lengths of 6ft plus, I have one of those that is currently over 10 years old, and as an individual she is a very gentle, but a big predator of small animals none the less.
For example my 6ft 9 inch female white throated monitor weighs around 40lbs at most, a comparable female komodo would weigh closer to 75lbs.
Komodo monitors are apex predators, nothing on their islands is a big enough threat to them, their only predator is themselves (most young are eaten by adults).
As far as indigo nsakes go, old wives tails about them growing to 10ft, or even close. The longest native species of snake is the eastern diamondback rattler, there are a few rare examples that grew to 7ft, Im sure the record was over 8ft for one example.
The nile monitor is a close relative to my "little girl" but the nile is s long thin water dwelling species that holds Africas record for length (one caught in an elementary school playground along the nile river was 7ft 11 3/4 inches, nowhere near by weight.
Dogs are very dongerous to all but one species of monitor lizard, monitors are fast, they will run long before they stand their ground, but when they do they bite like a pair of vice grips with steak knives for teeth, and have very very sharp claws that are propelled by very strong legs.
My big monitor came in handly when snakes escaped on occasion from a friends collection, only if they were venomous, she found them in a hurry, the trick was to get them before her, she loves to eat them.
I had a finger broken by one 4ft monitor that grabbed a mouse from my hand one time and the mouse wrapped around the finger.
Shoot the snakes with a small rifle or pistol in the head.

[SHvar]

By the way realistically until a python or anaconda exceeds 12 ft its no danger to a healthy adult human. You should hunt them as a pair, just for the reason that its safer from accidents, not from the snakes.
Snakes are slow on the ground aside from a few species, vipers are very fast strikers, and dogs are far more dangerous to all but about 2-3 species of snake in the world than snakes are to dogs.
Shoot them if you dont know how to handle them and kill them otherwise.

[Mitch from LA]

The Komodo is far and away the heaviest extant species of lizard, I probably wasn't too clear about that. I am admittedly no expert on Varanid lizards so I have to defer to those in the know about them.

In regards to the longest native species of snake, it is the Indigo Snake, (at least in the Eastern US, not sure about the West). Conant and Collins list the adult size range as 60-84 inches for an Indigo Snake (record was 108) and the adult size range for an Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnake at 33-72 inches (record was 96). Both are large impressive snakes to be sure.

I agree about dogs being more of a danger to snakes than vice versa, and that vipers (we specifically have Pit Vipers here in the new world) are very fast strikers. Hence why it is best to leave them be.

[rswartsell]

Herpet-o-faunas? Well hail far cuz I thot we wuz talking snakes and sech.:D

With that there book larnin' you done, you thank a 12 ga could handle them herpet-o-faunas?:confused:

[Mitch from LA]

Herpet-o-faunas? Well hail far cuz I thot we wuz talking snakes and sech.:D

With that there book larnin' you done, you thank a 12 ga could handle them herpet-o-faunas?:confused:
To quote my good buddy Josey Wales, "I reckon so." The advice on shooting invasive snakes in the head was spot on. Snakes do not have very robust skulls and a 12-gauge would be more than enough. For the record, I don't have a problem with shooting invasive species or game species (as long as folks stay within the rules).

I have a bit o' book larnin' but fancy might not be the best word to describe it.

[BullsAndClays]

Does Thomas K. Pauley teach that one? I've seen some folks from Marshall present their research at a few conferences.

Yes, Dr. Pauley was my instructor. I unfortunately ended up in IT after graduating; a major loss of direction on my part!

[wilkersk]

Used to carry a .410/.22 over&under with #9 lead shot on the tractor. But that was for south Ga/North Fl variety of snakes, and mostly just for fun. Only exception was "never kill a king snake!"

As far as a hunting method, we just let them find us.

[jimmyraythomason]

The largest species of snake we have in Alabama is the grey rat snake, known here as a chicken snake. 60''+ are commonly found. I personally saw one that easily exceeded 8' swimming in front of me while I was fishing in a swamp. Black snakes (racers,coach whips etc.)are in the 6' range with some specimens exceeding that by a fair margin. Copperheads will average about 2' with often get much bigger. I killed 2 that exceeded 5' and saw one that got away that was closer to 6'. My ex brother-in-law killed one copperhead with a bush hog that was 4'' in diameter. No idea how long it actually was.

[22-rimfire]

12 ga shotgun with buck shot should do the trick along with a centerfire backup handgun of your choice 9mm or larger. This is for BIG snakes or reptiles.

A 5 ft Copperhead is a huge Copperhead. I have seen one coiled up that was as large as your common large diamondback rattlesnake (4-5ft). Left him be after almost stepping on it out in the woods. It appeared to be asleep.

[jimmyraythomason]

A 5 ft Copperhead is a huge Copperhead. And EXTREMELY intimidating! It doesn't take long to realize that a hoe handle ain't near long enough!

[Mitch from LA]

You should document the next time you find a Copperhead that is over 5ft long as this would be a record length for the species. You could get a publication out of it. It would be wrong to keep such a meritorious scientific finding to yourself.

[BBBBill]

I killed a 7' Timber Rattler on Fort Rucker in 97, so we do grow some pretty large ones in Alabama. That was the biggest I've seen. I really don't want to ever encounter another one. I don't automatically kill snakes when I see them, even poisonous breeds. I only kill them when they are around the house.

[jimmyraythomason]

It would be wrong to keep such a meritorious scientific finding to yourself. There were 3 of them and the largest got away. This was near my ex-father-in-law's chicken houses where there were hundreds of rats for them to feed on. That was 35 years ago and the chicken houses have been gone since the '80s.

[jimmyraythomason]

I don't automatically kill snakes when I see them, even poisonous breeds. I only kill the venomous ones but I kill all of them that I can.

[SHvar]

A quick note about sizes of reptiles.
A good friend of mine and his now ex-wife used to run a reptile rescue, I helped them to teach educational classes about reptiles at colleges, schools, etc.
Countless times we received calls that we went to pick up thousands of snakes, lizards, crocodilians, turtles, etc. In all but a handful of cases the size of these reptiles was not just slightly, exagerated, but wildly exagerated. Personally being a long time reptile keeper Im not sure how that happens, but the average size iguana we were called to pick up was said to be from 5-7ft, the actual size of the lizard when we got there was actually from 3-4ft at most, snakes (wow the exageration is just as bad), alligators were the worst (owners told you they were 5,6,7,8,9, 10 ft long, the actual animal in all but one case was 2-3 or 4 ft for one).
I cant imagine how you mistake the sizes, maybe being used to handling a 9ft male alligator, and 7ft female regularly, a 6ft western diamondback, a 6ft cobra, 5ft canebrake, several 2-3ft copperheads, not including hundreds of nonvenous snakes.
I agree with the common exageration of the 5ft copperhead, heard that one many times, the largest copperheads are around 3ft, a very very few rare examples have ever made it to almost 4ft.
Lesson one on snake handling, snakes can only strike 1/3rd or less of their body length, so a 3ft snake can only strike 1ft. I have a claw thats 4ft long, its designed to handle king cobras, why the largest venommous snake in the world averages 9-12ft, so a 4ft claw puts you out of reach, if not just out of the longest of their reach.
Also when I hunted snakes in the south, I killed rattlesnakes, copperheards, water mocs, you name it, and never fired as shot. I simply pinned the head, and either broke the neck, or cut the head off.
Snakes are very very vulnerable to predators, in fact consider that a snakes entire body is backbone, and ribs, their ribs are soft, almost like soft fish ribs bones, in fact you can easily eat snake ribs when cooked. If a snake sustains a fall of even a few feet from the ground they break one of more ribs which cause problems for them. Consider that they cannot grab you with claws, they cannot scratch you, they have only one weapon, a mouth.
The primary reason humans fear snakes is the shape which we dont associate with similar animals to us, its a ancient fear, automatic which causes us to see something bigger and worse than it actually is upon first sight. Spiders cause the same automatic reaction to all primates as snakes.
For reference, heres my little girl at 6ft 9 inches, actually a bit longer than the average female komodo gets in the wild, but not as massive or heavy.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z281/SHvar/Picture058.jpg
If anyone is interested I can find loads ofpictures of other big creepies, and crawlies.
Just be careful for falling, and drowning hunting invasive snakes in Fla, Id be more worried about alligators.

[rswartsell]

Uhh Huhh,

Predatory reptiles invariably cause an instinctive reaction to all humans that experience them in the "wild". I have no problem whatsoever in agreeing with overestimation in size. I also think this is a natural reaction to the human perception of threat.

A 3 ft copperhead can flat ruin your day and I don't for a moment believe the example previously posted was "asleep". Copperheads account for a large majority of venomous snakebite in the US due to their defensive habit of "freezing" as a rabbit will sometimes do and trusting it's camouflage, all the while tensed like a spring to strike. Reptiles are "simple machines" without complex reasoning.

I think we have as humans instinctive "memory" or programming that cues us when in close proximity to predatory reptiles that great threat is imminent and that 3 footer becomes 5 or even 8. This is not wholly inaccurate as the real ability to do damage is in their volume and nature of venom, not length from nose to tail. Reptiles do not "waste" venom as it is their means of survival. A pit viper will need time to "load" venom either during the process of stalking prey or in response to perceived threat. Catch one truly "asleep" and get an immediate strike and you might get lucky enough to receive little venom or possibly none at all.

Most begin life with full power venom and rapidly advance to the capability to produce volumes dangerous to humans and the record size specimens are often "old men" fading in their ability to produce large volumes of full strength venom.

[rswartsell]

RE: Kingsnakes, a highly beneficial breed, vermin killer friend to humans. Looks way too damn much like Coral Snake (North American Cobra relative with some of the most dangerous venom on the continent). Going back to some hillbilly homilies about how to tell them apart. Reinforced by papaw's hiding me for killing a king snake and thinking I was a hero;

Red touch yellow, kill a fellow-Red touch black, friend of Jack.

[jimmyraythomason]

I agree with the common exageration of the 5ft copperhead I haven't exagerated anything. Cottonmouths are by far the most common venomous snake(I wont even bother telling you how big I've seen those) here with the Copperhead a close second. When you throw in chicken houses with their unlimited food supply (brown rats)predators can grow big. The two 5' snakes that were in fact measured 57'' and 56-1/2'' another that my dad killed in his feed barn MEASURED 42''(with the head and a couple of inches of body missing from dad's axe). This is why the locals have quit reporting cougar and black bear sighting here because the experts insist that it's not possible for them to be here(and do it in such a way as to incite ridicule to those reporting it). I have seen 3 cougars here myself in the wild (it is up to you whether you believe that or not). BTW,The length of the largest copperhead was in fact estimated but was longer that the largest that was killed.

[jimmyraythomason]

Your scepticism is understandable. I am 56 years old and have traversed the hills and hollers of Blount County all of my life and have encountered a miriad of GOD's creatures. I have only seen 3 (those mentioned) copperheads that exceeded 4 feet in length and all 3 were within a half acre of each other . I have seen about <10-12 that actually exceeded 3 feet.

[22-rimfire]

I have no idea if the particular copperhead I referred to was truly "asleep" or not. I didn't try to pick it up to see. :) But it was coiled up like a rattlesnake and was so large that I took a minute to look for rattles. It had the body shape of a rattlesnake which is why I looked for rattles. I don't know how long it was as I left it alone. I don't kill poisonous snakes unless they are in my yard which would be a rarity and has never happened. I've never been bitten, but have had them strike at me from time to time and I don't mean strikes that I illicited by messing with them.

Most copperheads that I have seen are 3 feet or under. A 3 foot copperhead is a large one.

I've said this before. The only poisonous snake in the US that I truly dislike are water moccasins/cotton mouths.

When I lived in Texas, you heard stories of big rattlesnakes that stretched from one side of a one lane road to another. That would probably be about a 6 foot snake. Never seen one that big.

I believe there are cougars (large cats) in the wilds of the South and Southeast. There have been too many sightings for me to dismiss them as being reported by people who see a bobcat and say it was a cougar. Cougars have long tails if nothing else.

It is very easy to kill a snake. You generally don't need a firearm. My earlier comment was for BIG snakes of the exotic variety. I honestly wouldn't want to get close enough to break its neck if I had a choice.

[CoRoMo]

I just got this email about the supposed 'record Eastern Diamondback'.
Truth or BS?

CHECK THIS GUY OUT, I THINK THIS WOULD GET YOUR ATTENTION,


http://by134w.bay134.mail.live.com/mail/SafeRedirect.aspx?hm__tg=http://65.55.139.121/att/GetAttachment.aspx&hm__qs=file%3d9218111a-c9ed-4dc7-a8b3-4b6c250f74cc.jpg%26ct%3daW1hZ2UvanBlZw_3d_3d%26name%3dQVRUMS5qcGc_3d%26inline%3d1%26rfc%3d0%26empty%3dFalse%26imgsrc%3dcid%253a9C9D59B9-168A-4440-BF76-838D2184C236&oneredir=1&ip=10.1.106.108&d=d3112&mf=0&a=01_7a8e56b5cf081ee6058e317036a4e460c4241c47839c240a71ed38ff1c48bb37


http://by134w.bay134.mail.live.com/mail/SafeRedirect.aspx?hm__tg=http://65.55.139.121/att/GetAttachment.aspx&hm__qs=file%3d50a61bf7-2481-4619-9f21-ec74f3eae43a.jpg%26ct%3daW1hZ2UvanBlZw_3d_3d%26name%3dQVRUMi5qcGc_3d%26inline%3d1%26rfc%3d0%26empty%3dFalse%26imgsrc%3dcid%253a70429501-22F1-477B-B992-C9ABA912FBC3&oneredir=1&ip=10.1.106.108&d=d3112&mf=0&a=01_7a8e56b5cf081ee6058e317036a4e460c4241c47839c240a71ed38ff1c48bb37



http://by134w.bay134.mail.live.com/mail/SafeRedirect.aspx?hm__tg=http://65.55.139.121/att/GetAttachment.aspx&hm__qs=file%3de89d14f2-9aa2-4524-b9e7-1c11a68a7722.jpg%26ct%3daW1hZ2UvanBlZw_3d_3d%26name%3dQVRUMy5qcGc_3d%26inline%3d1%26rfc%3d0%26empty%3dFalse%26imgsrc%3dcid%253a3ACA5B12-1687-4588-B7AE-D8BE600CA3C9&oneredir=1&ip=10.1.106.108&d=d3112&mf=0&a=01_7a8e56b5cf081ee6058e317036a4e460c4241c47839c240a71ed38ff1c48bb37

15 foot Eastern Diamondback rattlesnake. Largest ever caught on record.

After seeing this, I did a little research, and learned the following:

One bite from a snake this large contains enough venom to kill over 40 full grown men.

The head alone is larger than the hand of a normal sized man.

This snake was probably alive when George H. W. Bush was President.

A bite from those fangs would equal being penetrated by two 1/4 inch screwdrivers.

A snake this size could easily swallow a 2 year-old child.

A snake this size has an approximately 5 and 1/2 foot accurate striking distance. (The distance for an average size Rattlesnake is about 2 feet)

Judging by the size of the snake, it is estimated to weigh over 170 pounds. How much do you weigh?

[Mitch from LA]

I just got this email about the supposed 'record Eastern Diamondback'.
Truth or BS?
Fiction my good man. You can find info that explains the snake is actually 7 ft 3 inches with a quick search.

[Myles]

I have seen some big critters, and once measured a 14 foot alligator. He was huge - the head was in proportion and downright scary. I've seen cougars in both Florida and North Carolina, even though Game and Wildlife claim it's not possible.

However, I was taught to take a claim of any animals size/weight/length with a grain of salt. Take the number, cut it in half, and add a 1, and it's generally closer to the truth.

[Mitch from LA]

I have seen some big critters, and once measured a 14 foot alligator. He was huge - the head was in proportion and downright scary. I've seen cougars in both Florida and North Carolina, even though Game and Wildlife claim it's not possible.

However, I was taught to take a claim of any animals size/weight/length with a grain of salt. Take the number, cut it in half, and add a 1, and it's generally closer to the truth.
I'm surprised someone in position of authority told you that it is impossible for cougars to live in Florida, as it is home to the Florida Panther Puma concolor coryi a highly endangered subspecies of Cougar (aka: Puma, Mountain Lion, Catamount). Unlikely perhaps, but certainly not impossible. Impossi There has been a big debate in recent years about whether or not it is ethical to shore up numbers of declining Florida Panthers by breeding them with Western subspecies.

[jimmyraythomason]

What I don't understand is why the FWS are SO adamant about it. What is it to them that they keep denying the existance (in a particular location)of an animal that so many people have seen?

[rcmodel]

Kansas F&G is doing the same thing, despite several confirmed sightings, game cam photo's, and even a road kill or two in the Kansas City Kansas I-470 loop.

Rumor has it, F&G imported some cougars from Colorado several years ago to help control out-of-control deer populations around the more metro, eastern part of the state.

Now, they don't want to own up to it if a cougar eats little Fido, or a jogger.

My hunting pard saw one north of Tonganoxie KS about a month ago.
And if he says he saw one, he saw one.

rc

[Zip7]

Snake Length - I killed a cottonmouth with a stick once that we measured at 48" long. I would have guessed more if I hadn't hauled him out of the woods and measured him. He was one of the biggest I've seen in the wild. I shot one off a log another time that I thought might have been longer, but he went in the water and we didn't pick him up.

[FenderTK421]

+1 to taking a buddy. If a truly giant boid were to actually get a hold of you, your odds aren't very good if your alone.

[Art Eatman]

We're a tad loose about thread drift, here, but this has drifted too far out to sea...