Mosin Nagant idea with another thread tie in.


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DasFriek
February 23, 2010, 01:09 PM
Here is the original thread in which i had a heck of a time deciding on what gun/action and ammo was best for my next purchase. This post is pretty much the same post as #27 in that thread, But id like to concentrate on this idea for a minute and doing so in that thread wont be fruitful since its not gun specific like this.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=506534
If you have an idea thats talked about in that thread pls add it. But if its about the Mosin pls keep that talk here. Its not necessary to read the other thread to answer about a Mosin here, But it will give you insight as to what im trying to do.

Ive been looking around and have an idea.
My local shop is selling RUSSIAN Mosin's M91/30 7.62 x 54R for $90 each.
Ati makes a nice synthetic stock for $70.
Ive read this pretty much is a sniper rifle, But im sure alot is questionable on an old rifle but with time and work i can do work to correct that.

This could be a fun project, Very accurate even at 200 yards and shoots the hot and cheap 7.62x54

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=116283&d=1266904144


So if you been following the former thread ammo price became a big issue. The 7.62x54 is priced perfectly and on a bolt action it should slow me down on pulling the trigger easily 3x as much.
Accuracy? hows it gonna do at 200 yards? I understand it may take work to get there, May even take me buying 2 rifles and using the best parts of both to make one and sell the other crappier parts back in working order of course.
I can supplement the semi auto need and under 100 yard range needs with a normal AK47 or similar.

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Fiv3r
February 23, 2010, 01:23 PM
If you get a 91/30 with a good clean barrel, 200 yards shouldn't be an issue. The adjustable rear sights go WAY beyond that.

You can also find those ATI stocks for about $50.

While it is going to be a cheap truck gun and NOT scoped, I plan on cutting down an old rusty 91/30 that my friend gave me to a 20" barrel and slapping it into one of those synthetic stocks. Cheap to fix, cheap to feed, no big issue if it's left under the truck seat for years on end. What I lose in accuracy, I gain in fire breathing:evil:

DasFriek
February 23, 2010, 02:01 PM
Id be adding a good scope as my eyes suck these days, Hopefully they wont be had to attach to these rifles.

dom1104
February 23, 2010, 02:07 PM
a Mosin with a synthetic stock is a mosin with a synthetic stock.

What you are doing is whats called "Bubbaing" an old milsurp. Nothing wrong with that.

But its hard to make a silk purse out of a sows ear. I would keep the mosin stock and just use it as is.

The result will likely be similar.

I would suggest you buy a rifle that comes with a synthetic stock, the lower end Savage "Stevens" models are excellent.

XxWINxX94
February 23, 2010, 05:19 PM
Mosin's are fantastic rifles, I love them and I have 2. If I were you, I would keep the wood stock, but refinish it, or have someone refinish it for you. Doing this makes your rifle look a lot better than $90. Refinishing is also good if you ever wanted to make it into a sporter.

DasFriek
February 23, 2010, 07:52 PM
I was considering the plastic stock due to weight, That thing looks like it weighs 20 lbs.
You guys may be better served to read the linked post in the 1st post and why i picked this rifle for this particular job.

Ill try and give Cliff notes on the other thread.
1. Looking for 200 yard rifle with 3" group ability.
2. Needs to use larger bore ammo like .308 and 7.62x54 but keep the cost low.
3. I found out the 7.62x54 is the best deal ammo wise and im trying to pick a rifle
4. Im not all that fond of the PSL line and cant afford a Draganov.
5. Started from the beginning and im re-evaluating everything from caliber,action and distance/accuracy because i wasn't seeing what was available.
6. Seen the Mosin idea and decided to ask about it seperatly in another thread so people would focus on this idea and then i can re-evaluate this info with the other thread.

I don't like the looks of the wooden stock on the Mosin, It has to weigh a ton and also it cleans up the lines with the new stock.
I don't think im asking for too much out of the gun to get 3" groups at 200 yards?
I also need a low cost project on top of this gun need so i figured i may as well combine them.

In the end i may just hand build a DPMS LR.308 but the gun is expensive as is the ammo, But i figured i may try this route and save money on the gun and ammo and also have a fun learning process.

Shadow 7D
February 23, 2010, 09:04 PM
Look up bubba rifle here and you will see the opinion that flows, please, do check and make sure that the rifle you choose to slaughter, er, bubba, er "sporterize" (and not in the good sense) isn't one with historic value.

44Dave
February 23, 2010, 09:16 PM
But most of all, remember it's your property and you can do whatever the hell you want with it.

GunsBeerFreedom
February 23, 2010, 09:19 PM
A normal Mosin weights between 7-8 lbs. The plastic stock won't cut much, if any weight, and will actually hurt more (less weight=more felt recoil). You can get a very nice aftermarket wood stock for slightly more (I think it's $80 total) and a good recoil pad. Of course with all this investment you could also just get a Mossberg ATR for the same price.

leadcounsel
February 23, 2010, 09:38 PM
You might be able to find a Mosin with a cracked or damaged stock if you contact the distributors.

I agree that you shouldn't take off an otherwise good stock. And a lighter stock means more felt recoil.

DasFriek
February 23, 2010, 10:30 PM
Ill agree you guys are making some points on the stock. It doesn't sound like a big weight savings and also the recoil would be worse also. Limbsavers im sure has a pad i can and most likley would buy, My Mossberg 500SPX taught me that at 40 years old a sore shoulder is alot worse than it was when i was 20.
I can check with my local store as they have 2 locations and possibly many of these Mosin's in stock.
Maybe its just not the gun for me, The ammo is tho.
Its funny you guys are so opposed to gutting a stock on a $90 gun. It has no historical value and being sold cheaply as the space they occupy is probably worth more than the gun.
Now that ive ruffled some Nagant lovers feathers can we try and be objective.
I need a gun for me, It should shoot what ammo i want and look how i want it to.
It isn't like im turning a Draganov into a chopped pistol. I want to modernize the gun a bit and make it easier on the eyes, And hopefully make it better threw work over time and refinish parts and replace as needed.

How about this as a question.
I can afford a PSL and or a Nagant with the PSL costing 6x as much but about equal on accuracy. If i went changing stocks and the parts on the PSL i dont think id be hearing talk about doing that.
I think the Mosin with a synthetic stock looks nice and would revive a gun someone else may not respect.

Anyhow i don't know what im gonna buy,do or even pick at this point. Im still kicking the can around until it hits me and them ill know what to buy.

jpwilly
February 23, 2010, 10:43 PM
If a 200yrd rifle is what your after you odds are WILL be much happier with a Savage / Stevens than with your luck of the draw Mosin. I've built a few and even handloaded for the ungrateful things and they have all been un converted back to ugly surplus rifles and shoot the same! Yes one of them is a 2-3moa rifle the other few average 3-4moa with good ammo...that's not bad for what they are.

If you would be happy with 3-4" groups at 100yards than go for it but if you think all projects turn them into 1moa rifles ODDS are you'll be dissappointed.

tactikel
February 23, 2010, 10:50 PM
A "Mosy" for $90, stock for 50-70, scope mounts bought, drilled, scope bought and installed - you arent much under a new Savage! Which is more accurate, stronger, more reliable, and has resale value. I had a Mosin and traded it and $ for a Mauser M98 :D
If you like the Mosin buy it and refinish the stock, work the trigger and check out scope options.
While you can find really cheap Mil-surp ammo, hunting ammo is not that cheap- if you handload you can load .30-06 for 1/2 the price of "golden bear" ammo.

Casefull
February 23, 2010, 11:37 PM
Pathetic rifles...you get what you pay for. I wonder if there were rifles for $45, that shot 6 to 8 inches at 100 yds, would there be buyers for them...I guess we all have to use a crappy tool in order to learn how nice the quality tools are. Heck why not make zip guns. They are real cheap and very inaccurate too.

Shadow 7D
February 24, 2010, 01:08 AM
Not pathetic, and actually they can be made really nice, just realize that if what you want is a custom rifle, starting with a moisin, you get a mosin, and if you stick to the original barrel, you also have a milspec, from a military where close was close enough.

Like he said, by the time you get the scope mounted, new stock, you could have the same as a low end bolt gun, so the only difference would be caliber, which is nice if you like cheap ammo that rust out barrels, cause it's corrosive....

Definitely not a custom mauser, but it is a home build project, please get to know some about mosins because some do have historic value

Teapot
August 18, 2010, 03:43 PM
You can always buy the MN 44 model. It is already a cut down version of the 91/30 and they are still cheap. Accuracy from them at 200m is still good but not as good as the longer rifle.

KodiakBeer
August 18, 2010, 04:14 PM
If you want a sniper, buy a Fin Mosin Nagant. They're already accurized.

I'm not sure why you want a plastic stock. In my eyes a plastic stock just says "nice rifle with a cheap plastic stock...", but you can drop it into a plastic stock (if you want) without damaging the original furniture, so go for it.

Anything more than that is going to climb into the big bucks range. To mount a scope, you have to bend the bolt handle is which integral to the bolt itself, so not cheap and not easy to do without damage. You'll have to pay a talented gunsmith to do it.

You could put a forward mounted Scout Scope on it, I suppose... No matter what you do, you'll have a Milsurp rifle with some cheap accessories bolted on.

My advice is to buy a cheap used 30.06 and spend $100 on a reloading set. You'll have your cheap ammo and a rifle already designed for a scope.

teirst
August 18, 2010, 06:21 PM
when it comes to the mosin with a scope you have real options

leave the stock, install a scout scope and let it be. cheapest route
mosin 90
scope+mount 50

140 bucks

The "nice" route
replace the stock, cut the barrel, re-crown the barrel, have the bolt handle turned down, scope mount, scope. Lets assume you do all the work you reasonably can yourself

mosin 90
stock 50
hacksaw 20
dremel bit 10
bolt 50
scope+mount 50
drill and tap for scope at least 30 bucks

300 bucks. This includes no money for your "time" working on the rifle

If you want to do it for the project that is fantastic have fun!! If you want to do it because of the ammo cost, and the cost of the gun there might be smarter options.

For example http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/64244

Savage Edge with a scope chambered in .223 for $300. 223 will reach out to 200 yards no problem, the ammo is a bit more expensive but 100% easier to find, cheaper to reload, great variety in stores. This rifle will also be lighter, have a FAR better trigger (no 15 pound 2 stage trigger), and FAR more accurate (think 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards).

Think about what you really want to do. If you want a fun project, I would recommend grabbing a mauser and working off that. The final product will be much nicer and more accurate then the mosin. If you want something that is fun, reaches out to 200+yard accurately, and cheap to feed check out a .223 bolt gun.

EDIT: I forgot one more option. If you REALLY want to get into "custom" rifle, and play around with changing parts pick up a 10/22. There is almost a bigger custom market for 10/22's then there is for ar's. You could build as you go, fire the cheapest ammo in the world, hell even simulate 200 yard shooting with small targets at 50 yards.

Cosmoline
August 18, 2010, 06:46 PM
Three big issues here.

First off you will likely have trouble finding a run-of-the-mill 91/30 that will give you 3" groups at 200 yards. Getting there may also take some handloading and tweaking. A lot of them saw a lot of service and have been rebored so they're more like a basketball at 200 yards.

Second, the 91/30 stock is actually quite light weight and balances well. It's not a difficult rifle to tote by any means. Among WWII vintage rifles it is considerably more packable than a Garand or even a K98k Mauser.

Third, if you do find an accurate 91/30 or get yourself a Finn or a Pole, you'd be an idiot to start hacking on it.

Caliper_RWVA
August 18, 2010, 11:03 PM
As much as I love my Mosins (just bought my 6th) but if you are looking for a great long range shooter you are better off with a NEW rifle. Buy a Moin because you like the history, the smell of cosmoline, or the muzzle blast. But a Mosin with a bore anywhere near as good as any new rifle will carry a price premium. A new rifle will also already be set to easily and ergonomically mount a great scope. It can also fire a cartridge that has a wide selection of factory loaded match quality ammunition.

Of course, that is the economical route. There is some great fun in buying several 91/30's, finding one that shoots well. Then go about bedding the action, working over the trigger, mounting a reproduction PU or PE scope and handloading some ammo for it. Show up and bang out some great groups with a rifle like that and you should really get some bragging rights. :)

Clipper
August 19, 2010, 05:37 AM
I've been sporterizing my Mosin 91-30 (1938 Tula) and having a ball... Found it with matching numbers and truely beautiful bore for $85.00. $50.00 for an ATI stock (for now), $9.00 for a Remington M700 style bolt handle. Turned and crowned the barrel to 22" ($0.00) and polished and reblued with Birchwood Casey super blue. Take your time and this stuff does a really nice job. Got ahold of an old Williams Foolproof peep sight from a large-ring Mauser (I traded a buddy a dovetail-mount Lyman folding leaf for it), which matches the reciever ring diameter of the M-N exactly. Flipped it to the left side of the reciever and will drill & tap to mount just ahead of the loading port. I'll then have a ghost-ring sight with either a white bead or firesight on the front. I don't know what the blade for the base I already have will cost...Let's say $10.00.

Hillbillyz
August 19, 2010, 10:07 AM
Bottom line is what do you consider fun, and worth the money. I collect milsurps and when I get one that is encased in ten pounds of cosmoline and warehouse dirt I grin like a kid at Christmas, because I have a project that will take days to clean up and get into shooting condition. Then I get to experiment with different handloads until I find the one that works best in that rifle.

If you want a project to work on, learn a few skills, and have the satisfaction of saying I did it myself, go with the Mosin project. If you want a good shooter that is on the cheap side one of the new store boughts would probably be the way to go.

Mr. Bojangles
August 20, 2010, 05:10 AM
I've owned and shot quite a few mosins and I've had the best accuracy from counter-bored 91/30 models. These are easy to spot due to the "step" seen about 1/2" from the muzzle as viewed from the inside. With iron sights 3" groups at 100 yards is possible. I'm not sure if the rifle could do 3" groups at 200 yards with a scope, but there is only one way to find out! Good luck and have fun with your project!

Palehorseman
August 20, 2010, 02:15 PM
I have posted this before, but few years back got a bubbarized MN for 25 bucks, got a scout scope mount (which reconfigured as at link) for 15 dollars and a yard sale BSA scout scope for another $15.00. 55 bucks total, a little work, result with cast boolits, priceless.

http://hstrial-rchambers.homestead.com/early.html#

http://hstrial-rchambers.homestead.com/SSC3_op_800x366.jpg

caribou
August 20, 2010, 04:20 PM
You can get a Finn Mosin M-39 varient for 300$ that shoot 3" groups at 200 yards, as issued with open sights, its most likely that ammunition and operator variations will open that up anyway.
I find Czeck light ball to work very well in my M-39's, though its not as inexpensive anymore.
Interordnce once made M-39's with Russian scopes and bases that will accept most any scope.
That would be my first choice, if the opportunity came to get one.

lefteyedom
August 21, 2010, 01:17 AM
Mosin are fun and about the only "cheap" rifle left that you cut up how ever you want with out killing the budget. If you do the work yourself.

But like most everybody else here has stated it is not the best dollar cost way to a good shooting rifle.

Right after hunting season 30.06/270s flood into pawn/gun shops (also before as people trade them in for some unneeded but greatly covenant Magnum rifle) For under $200 you can get a good complete rifle package.

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