Savage 7mm-08 rifle twist question


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chains1240
February 23, 2010, 05:46 PM
Has anyone taken the Savage 7mm-08 out to the range yet with the new rifle twist? Any insight on why they changed it? Interested to hear about how it throws the 140 grain or even 120 grain bullets. Thank you.

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chains1240
February 23, 2010, 05:50 PM
Found this http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=485776 Updates?

NCsmitty
February 23, 2010, 06:30 PM
IMO, 7mm-08 is used in short action rifles that limit bullet selection to 140gr and under because of the need to fit the magazine. Anything heavier or longer really limits the powder charge and subsequent velocity.
I believe that's the thinking behind Savage's choice of the slower twist matching up to the 140's and under.
The only way around it is to get an after market replacement barrel in the twist of your choice.



NCsmitty

kludge
February 23, 2010, 06:32 PM
It's too bad... I don't understand the rationale... most commercial loads?... how can you overlook... the 168 SMK for handloaders?

Savage made the same mistake as Remington did with the .244 Remington (aka 6mm Rem), but in reverse.

No way would I buy a 7mm-08 with w/a 11.5 twist... neutering a perfectly good cartridge like that... it's unconscionable, IMO.

1858
February 23, 2010, 07:19 PM
No way would I buy a 7mm-08 with w/a 11.5 twist... neutering a perfectly good cartridge like that... it's unconscionable, IMO.

I bought a new Savage Weather Warrior with the 1:11.5 twist last year. I've made two trips to the range with my reloads consisting of Hornady 139gr SST bullets (seated 0.020" off the lands), IMR 4895 powder, CCI 200 primers and Remington R-P cases. Lyman lists the IMR 4895 starting load as being the accuracy load for all the powders shown but I was hoping to find acceptable accuracy at the other end of the scale .... NOT!! :banghead: I'll be making up loads at the low end of the scale before the next trip to the range.



IMO, 7mm-08 is used in short action rifles that limit bullet selection to 140gr and under because of the need to fit the magazine.

The Savage magazine is plenty long for heavier/longer bullets. Here are some 139gr SSTs seated 0.020" off the lands and inserted in the Savage magazine. I could easily seat the bullets to the lands if necessary with plenty of room to spare.

http://128.171.62.162/hawthorn-engineering/thr/sav16_7mm-08/reloading/7mm-08_139g_01r_sst.jpg

:)

chains1240
February 23, 2010, 07:27 PM
Thanks for the replies. I would be looking at hand loading 120 and 140 grain bullets.

Uncle Mike
February 23, 2010, 09:02 PM
So far, all the customers except for one or two have been pleased with the accuracy of the slow poke twist...however, you knew this was coming, didn't you.... all of the folks that have purchased from us, one of these slow twist 7mm-08's, have, to say the least, not been your accuracy, reloading, bench resting or accuracy concerned types.

chains1240
February 23, 2010, 09:20 PM
I wouldn't be too concerned with ultra accuracy from a bench. Probably any rifle is more accurate than I am. I have been doing photography for a few years now as a hobby, if you give me a $8,000 camera or a $800 camera I will take the same pictures. I would like the most accurate rifle if all the rifles cost the same, but I know my limitations. Less than 300 yeards without exception.

SSN Vet
February 23, 2010, 09:24 PM
1858...

After all you went through to get that rifle!

I hope you can find some accurate loads for that puppy.

Best of luck with it.

1858
February 24, 2010, 01:59 AM
SSN Vet, I think you might be confusing me with AKElroy since mine wasn't hard to get at all. Regardless, I hope I can find a good load for it too. I bought 500 of the 139gr SST bullets with that very goal in mind.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=505937

:)

kludge
March 23, 2010, 11:14 AM
I wouldn't be too concerned with ultra accuracy from a bench. Probably any rifle is more accurate than I am.

I'm not worried about "benchrest accuracy" either, only the ability to stabilize the heavier bullets - just in case I want to try my hand at a 600 yard range (or longer).

336A
March 23, 2010, 03:39 PM
No way would I buy a 7mm-08 with w/a 11.5 twist... neutering a perfectly good cartridge like that... it's unconscionable, IMO.

I totally agree with the above. I am a ardent Savage supporter and was thinking of getting me a 7-08 until I noticed this. Of course this don't change my opinion about Savage as I think they're great rifles, but it does mean I will now be looking at another brand in this caliber:(
Here is one thing to remember though and this is not in defense of the 11.5" twist. Although a 7mm 140gr bullet does seem light it has the exact same sectional density as does a .30 cal 165gr bullet. What this will tell the un-initiated is the 2 bullets with the same shot placement started at the same velocity will perform identically.

Shooting a 154gr bullet out of a 7mm is like shooting a 180gr out of a .30 cal, they both have the same sectional density again. However the 7mm in most every case with the two above mentioned weights will have higher ballistic coefficients. They can also be driven about 100-150fps faster than their .30 cal counter parts as well (7-08 compared to .308), resulting in a flatter trajectory. Again this in no way means that I agree with Savages decision to use that slow of a twist for this cartridge.

1858
March 23, 2010, 04:08 PM
No way would I buy a 7mm-08 with w/a 11.5 twist... neutering a perfectly good cartridge like that... it's unconscionable, IMO.

I just measured the twist rate of my Savage 16 FCSS in 7mm-08 (the new model with AccuStock and AccuTrigger) and it is indeed 1:11.5 so it's not a misprint. So why would Savage do such a thing? What was their reasoning? Now it looks like I may have to buy a new barrel for no reason other than Savage #$%$ed up with the twist rate ... assuming that they don't have some evil plan and know a lot more than the rest of us. My first Savage and it turns out to be a cluster#$%@. The Remington Gods must be smiling. :banghead:

:)

Uncle Mike
March 23, 2010, 06:41 PM
Easy now 1858...does your Savage 7mm-08 with the 1:11.5" twist shoot horridly?

Savage says that the 1:11.5 will indeed fit the bill as to accuracy with all 7mm-08 commercially loaded bullets.

I have been bending all the ears I can from customers that have bought on of the slow twist 7mm-08's and all, with the exception of one gentleman, have said the accuracy was, and I average here, 1/2" to 3/4" @ 100y!
The rifle I have shot here have done this well also.

I think we were all used to the faster twists and, that was that!

As for your assumption of an evil plan, it would not surprise me if Savage brought out one of their 'target' models in the 7mm-08 caliber with a faster twist....it'll cost more of course! Who knows what they where, or are thinking! lol

Uncle Mike
March 23, 2010, 07:42 PM
Whoops...double tap...gotta love these computers!

1858
March 23, 2010, 07:56 PM
Easy now 1858...does your Savage 7mm-08 with the 1:11.5" twist shoot horridly?

So far ... YES!!! I'd like to duplicate either of these Hornady 139gr loads if possible.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=745631

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=728542

I was getting close to 2,900 fps with 0.6gr over Lyman's max published load for that bullet (139gr SST) using IMR 4895 powder. I didn't have any pressure signs but I didn't have any accuracy either. I see that the majority of factory ammunition for the 7mm-08 uses a 140gr bullet so if Savage claims that 1:11.5 is good for all factory ammunition then this barrel should be ok.

:)

Uncle Mike
March 23, 2010, 08:07 PM
Now me is perplexed! We have used the Hornady Superformance 7mm-08 139gr SST on several 'put togethers', as we call them... and all the units have shot... looking at the records, at least 3/4" on our 100y range!

Call Savage, tell them the story, but don't be surprised after waiting a month to get the ol' " your rifle shoots within specification" letter. Don't quote me on this, but I think the going accuracy has to meet 1.5"@100y to leave the factory, on that particular model.

Now we all know that the majority of the excellent Savage rifle do much, much better than that, so i might speculate that your loads are not there yet, or maybe you got yourself a turd...it happens to all of the manufacturers at some point! lol

BBsteel
March 24, 2010, 01:00 AM
This is depressing. I was all pumped to pick one of these up this year until I saw the 1:11.5" twist spec on the site. I look forward to more shooting reviews from 1858.

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