AR-15/M4 Need recommendations (brands, etc.)


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TS537
February 24, 2010, 01:47 PM
My brother, who is in the armed forces, has asked me to find out what people recommend for an M4/AR-15 for his personal use/enjoyment. He was looking at Colt and Smith and Wesson. Any thoughts? Any other brands worth looking at? Nothing Chinese, please (if that's an issue--I assume the Chinese have copied these; they've copied everything else).

Best combination of quality/price is always first preference, of course.

Thanks in advance.

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Zerodefect
February 24, 2010, 02:17 PM
Colt or BCM.

MrCleanOK
February 24, 2010, 03:02 PM
If he wants something that matches or exceeds the quality of his issued weapon he should look at Colt, BCM, Noveske, LMT, Daniel Defense.

HGUNHNTR
February 24, 2010, 03:03 PM
The first two posts completely answered your question given your stated parameters. Go out--purchase--enjoy.

Maximo
February 24, 2010, 03:43 PM
Review the shotgun news, sarcoinc, and other places for deals on parts and build your own. You can build almost any weapon for 1/3 less then any shop can offer you for deals. Pawn shops are some of the best places to pick up a .223/ 5.56 unit.

I prefer larger bore size myself, 7.62/ .308

each to their own, its best to build your own to how you want the weapon.

8-)

Maximo

sarduy
February 24, 2010, 07:08 PM
If he wants something that matches or exceeds the quality of his issued weapon he should look at Colt, BCM, Noveske, LMT, Daniel Defense.

and CMMG

HGUNHNTR
February 24, 2010, 10:01 PM
^^ Nothing wrong with CMMG, just not in the same league as Colt BCM Noveske LMT, DD

kwelz
February 24, 2010, 10:36 PM
I know I am going to regret this in the morning but...

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&gid=5

This shows which companies stay closest to the TDP, which is what he would be used to

mljdeckard
February 24, 2010, 10:39 PM
Not the chart!!!:D

mljdeckard
February 24, 2010, 10:44 PM
I'll add, that I am in the process of building identical rifles for myself and a friend, I went to Noveske's website, and they are giving away a free blemished stripped lower with the purchase of any finished upper. Two please. :) I'll build out the lowers with premium parts and magpul both of them to death.

Remember, mil-spec quality isn't something to strive for. In the military, every piece of gear you have was made by the cheapest bidder. Do it better.

OhioChief
February 24, 2010, 11:46 PM
The Chart. Love the Chart. Everytime anybody posts anything with the title AR in it, the chart should automatically be posted. Brother, A long while back, on some forum far far away I posted the "help me find an AR".... and so has everybody else. So it's funny. To really get some great info, do a search on here, and if you have a lot of time to read, you'll learn everything there ever was to know about the AR15.

MrCleanOK
February 25, 2010, 02:12 AM
The Noveske cosmetic 2nd lower deal is good to go. Their rejects are in better shape than many manufacturer's retail products.

Zerodefect
February 25, 2010, 09:07 AM
How deos that work if I order 2 lowers from my local gun store?
Deos Noveske send two lowers and two blems? Or do I have to turn in a rebate or something gay like that?

MrCleanOK
February 25, 2010, 11:34 AM
The cosmetic blems are available if you order an upper receiver group or complete rifle. When you receive your rifle or upper, it will come with a voucher for a free lower. You fill out the form, include the required documentation, payment for shipping, and have your FFL submit it to Noveske. In about a week you can pick up your lower from your FFL (plus their transfer fee).

mljdeckard
February 25, 2010, 02:44 PM
I agree. I pretty much agree that a lower is a lower as long as it's in-spec, BUT, if you were going to buy a stripped lower to build anyway, why not get a FREE one to build that says 'Noveske' on the side? I don't care if it has a nick or a blemish, I'm going to beat the heck out of it anyway. I don't ever plan on selling mine, but if I did, it's better if it says 'Noveske' on the upper and lower than 'frankenlower', with a Noveske upper pinned to it.

MachIVshooter
February 25, 2010, 03:10 PM
If he wants something that matches or exceeds the quality of his issued weapon he should look at Colt, BCM, Noveske, LMT, Daniel Defense.

I'd add Armalite and LWRC to the list of top tier commercially built AR's (that won't completely drain your bank account).

As far as customer support, it's hard to beat Armalite. That's why I went that route for both of my AR's.

Salty1
February 25, 2010, 03:54 PM
I second CMMG, why spend for a name when it is for fun and plinking. The difference in price will buy a bunch of ammo, look at the CMMG web site and check out the bargin bin, they are the best deals around

Quentin
February 25, 2010, 04:27 PM
I have to agree with MachIVshooter. I've been very pleased with my ArmaLite M15A4 and the price was right. They come in toward the middle of The Chart because they get dinged for a few minor things but have the right stuff where it counts.

And I'll add that he should look at midlength gas system of ArmaLite, BCM, etc.

smoothdraw
February 25, 2010, 05:25 PM
We have 2 failures in our carbine class last week. A Daniel Defense and Smith and Wesson M&P. For fun almost everything will work.

With high round, tactical carbine proof i'll go with the 1st Tier and 2nd Tier.

1st Tier
Noveske, Knights Armament, Larue Tactical

2nd Tier
LMT, Colt, BCM

Piston maybe- POF (but i've seen a piston rod brake already from heavy use)

Magpul Magazines.....

These weapons above are the wepons that i will be very confident to go out and knows it will be able to handle a lot of rounds without failure.

There are a lot more great value weapons out there... Sabre Defense, RockRiver, Bushmaster, Armalite, H&K, Smith and Wesson, Bushmaster etc that are very good but will be more cautious to subject to heavy use.

And that is me and based on my experience and the experience of my shooting buddies.

MachIVshooter
February 25, 2010, 05:29 PM
And I'll add that he should look at midlength gas system of ArmaLite, BCM, etc.

Definitely. My M15A2C is a middy, much less violent than the carbine gas systems. Only failures my rifle has had were magazine problems (cheap or damaged mags). I went to P-mags and haven't had an issue since.

Zerodefect
February 25, 2010, 05:40 PM
I'm going to have to call Noveske. Their voucher bit is kinda flakey. If I order 2 lowers, why not just toss 2 blems in the box with them? I don't want to jump through hoops and annoy my local FFL at the same time.

Sounds like a scam.

AWDeanSR
February 25, 2010, 05:51 PM
I went through trying to figure out which AR to get a couple months ago. After many hours of reading message boards and searching the internet, I settled for the Armalite 15A4CBA2K http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=15A4CBA2K

I have fired about four hundred rounds from it in about a months time, I absolutely love this Rifle. I was in the army in 91' and have experience with m16a1's. I like my Armalite better!

It all comes down to your funding and intended use when picking an AR15...the Chart is a good reference point, however, all of the weapons listed there still fall a little short of being an actual M4.

No matter what your brother gets..tell him shoot it often, be safe, and have fun celebrating the right to keep and bare arms!

jacobl816
February 25, 2010, 06:38 PM
I have an Olympic AR i got for 750 new after taxes back in 2007. Im one of my many friends with all different brands. never malfunctioned after thousands of steel cased ammo rounds. After adding the cost of upgrades ( over $1000 easy) i cant fatham spending the money on a colt, les bear, ect. for the same results. Any minor problems with Oly Arms has been long resolved.

mljdeckard
February 25, 2010, 07:33 PM
I will give Noveske the benefit of the doubt. It might not be a convenient process, but as long as I get it eventually. (I already have a DPMS lower built out with nothing on it I can use in the meantime.)

Black92LX
February 25, 2010, 09:17 PM
I have a Rock River Elite CAR that I love and runs flawlessly during a 40 hour patrol rifle school. I highly recommend them.

I am currently building one on my own using a Rock River lower with CMMG parts and Magpul furniture. Still not sure what upper I will run with it but leaning towards the CMMG Piston Upper.
Though we have a company around here wanting to throw their hat in the civilian AR market so I might give them a whirl.

Also Doublestar builds a great rifle that can be had for under $700.

steven58
February 25, 2010, 11:20 PM
OK, here is a relatively inexpensive way to have a great AR at a great price

order this complete lower For $180: http://www.dsarms.com/Model-ZM4-Complete-Lower-Receiver-With-Mil-Spec-Stock-Assembly---DSZM4R2/productinfo/DSZM4R2/

Attach this complete upper $425, BCG and charging handle $145 http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-M4-16-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-m4-16.htm

Add a set of Magpul handguards $ 30 and rear sight $55 from here http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XMAG405Blk&groupid=52 and here http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XMAG246Blk&groupid=48

You will have a great basic M4 type carbine that you can stake your life on for $ 835.00 + ship and FFL fees. When your wallet recovers, add an optic!

Throw in a ST-T2 heavy buffer from Spikes Tactical to smooth it all out
$30.00 http://www.spikestactical.com/z/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=104_97&products_id=201

This will put you at the top of the "chart" as far as tested mil-spec parts, materials, coatings, plating, twist rate, and will provide you with the best customer service in the business if the need should arise.

Kenpo
February 26, 2010, 12:42 AM
ADS (Advanced Defense Systems) is a local company here in Arizona that I have heard many great things about. To my knowledge they build their rifles "milspec plus".


May be worth a look....

http://www.adsrifles.com/index.htm

MrCleanOK
February 26, 2010, 02:05 AM
I suspect Noveske uses the voucher system because upper receivers don't have to go through an FFL, and using one system to process all requests for blem lowers is simpler than the alternatives.

Getting my blem lower cost me $8 in shipping, a week of waiting, two trips to my FFL and a transfer fee. Hardly what I would call a scam for a "blemished" lower receiver I could find nothing wrong with.

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