[throdgrain]

Hello all :)

Over here in England we shoot shotguns a lot, no matter what people tell you to the contrary. As well as clay shooting, we hunt, either driven pheasant (expensive and not for me) or rough shooting 9i.e "one for the pot" rabbit etc) or we Decoy Pigeons.

I'm not sure if you have pigeons over there? They look like this -

Wood Pigeon -

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:W3R5puh_kU9a4M:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2d/Wood_pigeon_side_9l07.JPG


As opposed to feral pigeons (those that live in towns like feather rats)

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:8YeZU5prSDm7hM:http://dis.fatih.edu.tr/store/images/110514_b76x2D4f.feral_pigeon

And these things, that are a bit like pigeons but lighter of build, we call doves -

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:c4onW_yXlD89aM:http://www.sxc.hu/pic/m/j/jo/johnnoble/278286_ring_dove.jpg


Anyway.

Those first ones, woodpigeons, they eat a lot of crops, and thier population is growing hugely in the last few years. They're also pretty good to eat.

We spend a lot of time and effort trying to shoot them, and the main way we do this is by decoying. I expect you do this with wildfowl? We lay out patterns of decoy birds on stubble crop to try and lure them in to range, then try to take them as they swoop over. Bit like this -

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:LgchTezmbiuMhM:http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/imageBank/p/pigeon_shooting_decoys_on_drillings.jpg

Is this something you guys do over there? I've never read of it, yet over here I'd say that other than clay shooting it's the main reason for hunting with a shotgun. See www.pigeonwatch.co.uk

What do you guys do?

[grafsk8er]

ive heard of hunting pigeons in the states...but i believe its more of a midwestern thing. idk of any pigeon hunters here in ny. but then again maybe its just the area of ny i'm from

[oneounceload]

There are places in this country where the city "flying rats" are shot at a "Flyer Shoot" - typically kept on the QT with some wagering going on.

Doves are hunted in many states here during a regulated season (like most game birds). A 20 or 28 using 7-1/2s or 8s work great!

[throdgrain]

Over here none of these animals have any kind of season. The wood pigeons, ehile being a pia for farmers, are a great bird really and hard to shoot. The fly rats are also shot, but mostly not with shotguns as they live in towns. Before now Ive been paid to shoot them off house roofs with a quality air rifle. Nice work if you can get it :)

The birds we call doves, they dont have a season either, but dont do much damage to anything so mostly we leave them alone.

The art of pigeon decoying takes years to learn, and spawns businesses that just sell stuff to help the job, its great fun :)

[Snarlingiron]

Here, in North Central Texas, the opening day of Dove season, September 1st., is quite an event. Doves are also good to eat and the sporting aspect is great fun. The things fly around 40 miles an hour. It's kind of like trying to shoot a small rocket. Add to that the fact that they can see extremely well and turn on a dime and it can be quite a challenge. I swear that I have seen them dodge the shot cloud. About the only place I usually see pigeons around here is in the city.

Do you folks hunt waterfowl? Ducks and Geese?

[Virginian]

They say more shells are fired on opening day of dove season over here than all other shots taken all year - combined. We mostly hunt Mourning dove, with some white wings out west, or some band tailed pigeons. That picture looks like a Eurasian collared dove, which are gaining a firm foothold over here, now found as far North as Ohio, because I shot one last fall. They are hard to distinguish from a mourning dove, but they have a three note rather than the familiar 5 note call. Some say they are filling the niche left by the Passenger Pigeon. Probably the most plentiful warm blooded speciecs the world hase ever seen; wiped out by pure stupidity.
Those feral pigeons are technically Rock Doves or Rock Pigeons, and are quite sporty and good eating when killed in the country feeding on crop seeds.

[Tom Held]

We do have live bird shoots in various locations in the US. I've shot in live bird tournaments in California, Maryland, Pennsylvania, and North Carolina. There are two versions. I believe the box bird shoot started in England. Typically the "box" consists of 7 to 9 springloaded ground traps surrounded by a circular fence about 2 feet high. The shooter takes his/her first shots from the 32 yard line as five of the boxes are sequentially opened in a random manner. In a 25 bird "race" you might be shooting from the 39 yard line at the end. Any bird flying away can reach the back fence in 15 yards. The bird must be dropped inside the ring. Any bird dropped outside the ring is a no-kill.

We also have Columbaire shoots where a professional pigeon thrower (yes, they do exist) launches the bird from within a designed area over a designed wire. Again the bird must be dropped within the legal boundaries to be counted.

One of the best box bird shooters I know still uses a Purdy hammer gun made in 1888 with damascus barrels shooting 3 1/4 dram pigeon loads. Choked full and full it's a deadly live bird gun. The Columbaire guns are typically choked with the right barrel open or skeet and the left barrel modified or full since the first shot might be only 15 yards away and the second could be 50 yards away.

Typically only breakopen guns are allowed at a shoot. You must fire the second barrel even if the bird has been dispatched on the first shot to insure safety. It's the most difficult and challenging shooting I've ever participated in and very addictive. Some of the bigger events take 2 to 3 days and involve a couple of hundred shooters and thousands of pigeons. And pigeons are outrageously expensive.

I have friends who can afford to shoot the events in Spain and Portugal. The pigeons are raised specifically for the shoots and are of a identical size and weight and must fit through a certain diameter hole to be legal.

[MCgunner]

We have mostly mourning doves, some white wing doves, inca doves (tiny little farts), and there are some populations of what we call "ringneck" doves which I believe is a Eurasian import, "collared dove" that the game biologists are all worked up over. I don't know if they threaten the native doves, not that many of 'em, though I have shot a few. What I do know is they're big like a white wing and have lots of tasty meat on 'em. :D They pick rather easy, too.

Any pigeons around here will be feral, the winged rat variety. :D I'm not sure why they wouldn't eat just fine, though. I've never shot one. First ringneck I shot, I thought was a friggin' pigeon, though. Thing was HUGE.

Dove season opens the hunting season here in Texas and it's a bit of a tradition. It's a time when old friends get together and chat and shoot at a dove now and then. It gets me ready for waterfowl to follow and I just enjoy hunting in shirtsleeve weather. :D Yep, love to shoot doves.

[Al LaVodka]

I've shot shotgun in the UK. The Duke of Devonshire's estate. Clay target. They were all so pleasant and accomodating and particularly good shots, albeit familiar with the course of fire. Lent me a, hmmm, Miroku O/U I believe.

Factoid: The City of Buffalo NY used to have a full-time sharpshooter emloyed in the Summers to shoot pigeons -- they were considered an infestation and he walked around all day with a .22 just picking them off.

Al

[Tim the student]

I know a guy that shoots pigeons to use the breast as bait for flatheads. I don't know anyone that eats them, but I'd be game for one (or 20).

[throdgrain]

Do you folks hunt waterfowl? Ducks and Geese?
__________________


Yes we do. It's a different sport to pigeon decoying though. I'm a member of BASC (http://www.basc.org.uk/), which is arguably the biggest British shooting organisation, with the Duke of Edinburgh as it's patron, no less, and this started out life purely as a wildfowlers organisation. Having said that, it does tend to look towards stag stalking and driven pheasant shoots, which I dont beleive is truely representative of most British shooters, as it's mostly far too expensive :p

A lot of the posts here seem to be about shooting captive doves immediately after release, unless I'm mistaken. We do NOT do that in this country, in fact I think its illegal. Pigeon decoying is more about crop protection - build a hide, set out maybe 15 or 20 decoys to get the birds to swoop over the decoys, then bring em down with your gun :) Some days its quite easy, other days you get nothing at all!

I've shot shotgun in the UK. The Duke of Devonshire's estate. Clay target. They were all so pleasant and accomodating and particularly good shots, albeit familiar with the course of fire. Lent me a, hmmm, Miroku O/U I believe.


That estate being near Arundel in West Sussex? Bizzarely no where near Devon? I know the ground very well, though I've never shot there :)

[huntsman]

What do you guys do?

Grouse (ruffed) Woodcock.

[preachnhunt]

We had a pigeon shoot in the mid 1980s in Springfield Ky. The local game warden recruited a whole bunch of guys to rid the town of its' pigeon problem. There were shooters on the roofs of almost every building in town. It sounded like a small war. They gathered up all the dead pigeons and made a huge pile right there on the main street.

Someone should have blocked off the road and stopped traffic. There were some complaints from people driving through town who had birds dropping on their cars. I'm sure it's not PC to have such a shoot now, but it got rid of the problem,cost nothing, and believe me there was no shortage of volunteers.

[jimmyraythomason]

We can't shoot pigeons in Alabama, there is no open season and they are protected by the non-game laws.

[PJR]

Those first ones, woodpigeons, they eat a lot of crops, and thier population is growing hugely in the last few years. They're also pretty good to eat.

We spend a lot of time and effort trying to shoot them, and the main way we do this is by decoying.
My first encounter with wood pigeons was in a blind in the Bucks. There was a fast moving black streak in the sky and as I was about to ask my friends what it was everyone started shooting. Think teal with a tailwind. Very long leads were required but I hit a few.

The second encounter was later that same day at a pub where wood pigeon breast was the special of the day. It was very good, one of the better game meals I've had.

[throdgrain]

PJR, was that on a British holiday? Or are you British?

[ArmedBear]

We can't shoot pigeons in Alabama, there is no open season and they are protected by the non-game laws.

A barbaric custom!

In Idaho, feral pigeons are free-for-all. If you don't mind the ammo cost, they're awfully fun to shoot. They tend to shrug off small shot, though. We have no Wood Pigeons.
Far south of us, there are Band-tailed Pigeons, with a very short season and a very low limit (3 days and 2 birds or similar, depending on what Fish and Game decides for the year).

Eurasian Collared Doves are free-for-all, open season all year, no limit. They're good to eat, but I've never seen one this far north. They've been making for fun high-volume shooting in the Southwestern US lately, from what I hear. Mourning Doves, our native variety, have a few weeks' season per year. In Idaho it's the month of September, down south it's a split season in September and November.

Pheasants are hunted here by what I believe you call "rough shooting" and here we call "upland hunting." Pointing dogs of many breeds are generally used to find and point them, then retrieve shot birds (we have a Vizsla). In Idaho, we also have Chukar Partridge, Hungarian Partridge, California Quail, a few Bobwhite Quail, 5 species of Grouse, Merriam's Turkeys, along with a wide variety of ducks and geese, and these enormous things called Sandhill Cranes, for which hunting is legal but very restricted.

But don't tell anyone... Most Americans think of Idaho as a place to go on an expensive Elk or Mountain Goat hunt, not a bird hunt.:)

BTW can you perhaps correct my understanding of "rough shooting" in British parlance? Does that just mean "anything but driven bird hunting" or does it mean something else?

[conhntr]

tree rats are fun shooting. my grandfathers farm is infested with him and he is not a shooter. whenever i visit i have at them but they usually leave after a day or two... but he said they return after i leave :)

i actually prefer to use a 22lr pistol/rifle becuase it is more fun. but if they are flying around ill break out a shotgun.

[Dave McCracken]

Shot lots of pigeons in days of yesteryear, besides various barns (farm boy) there was a quarry we has access to on weekends that was loaded with the things.

Shot AT lots of mourning doves too, my average has improved after a few thousand rounds.

[jimmyraythomason]

Shot AT lots of mourning doves I'm a member of that club!

[gordy]

Well here in Minnesota there are doves to shoot at. Love the sport, only been legal for 6 years now. As for pigeons there is no season and most farmers will let you shoot them.:cool: One I know told me, Any time when the wifes car is not here. And they do taste good. About like doves just bigger.:rolleyes:

[jimmyraythomason]

Young pigeons called squabs are served in some fine dining resturants.

[figment]

I went on a guided white wing dove hunt in Mexico a few years back. It was REALLY bizarre since normally you would be jailed for owning even a single round of ammunition. We tipped the "birdboys" that retrieved our birds more than the average worker makes in a few months each day. Every evening we had prepared dove, mostly wrapped in bacon for supper.

[ArmedBear]

Shot AT lots of mourning doves too, my average has improved after a few thousand rounds.

Dove shooting is about the most fun shooting I've ever done. I like hunting with my dog, but I'm talking about the shooting.

There's a Guerini Woodlander 20 Gauge 30" for sale on Shotgunworld with 50 rounds through it and not a scratch on it for $2000. If I had two extra grand, I'd be very tempted. The only thing is, I'd get it for dove shooting, and I don't do enough of that around here to justify a gun for it even if I had the money. I've got to hook up with another feed lot owner!

[oneounceload]

Shot AT lots of mourning doves too, my average has improved after a few thousand rounds.

Dave - that's what?? one weekend of dove shooting??? :D

AB - if you REALLY like dove shooting - look up one of those Argentina shoots - about 3,000 shots in 3 days - give or take

[ArmedBear]

Yeah, one day I'm going to have to do that. I've known a number of people who went, and every one of them loved it.

However, those Eurasians have invaded the Southwest in such numbers that, in the right location, it can be a hell of a lot of fun for a hell of a lot less cash, too. The last report I got from the late season in California was 3 shooters, 260 birds brought home in a one-day foray to one spot, which means probably more than twice that many feral pigeons also shot as varmints. That's not half bad. Weather's nice, too. You just have to get over the fact that you're standing in a pile of cow crap.

That's the only hunting I miss about the SW desert. Rabbit hunting is good, too, but I never did figure out how to cook rabbits so they're softer than strap leather.

[gordy]

I read that a upland hunter shots 2 shoots for every bird. And a dove hunter shots 12 for one. Last year on opener I shot my limit and was that ever fun. Sitting there after. I noticed that I had shot 3 boxes of 20g.:what:

[ArmedBear]

a dove hunter shots 12 for one

12 sounds low.:D Of course, some of those extra shots might have taken out dragonflies, bats, rare protected songbirds...

There are dove hunters, and there are dove hunters.

But the people who gave that report probably get closer to 1 for 1 than most.

[PJR]

PJR, was that on a British holiday? Or are you British?
It was a nice day in June as I recall and I was on holiday. I'm not British but have been to the UK many times. For the North American audience I used the term "blind" when "hide" is what my friends called it.

The pub where we ate was in Turville. I was uncertain about eating wood pigeon so tried the appetizer which was grilled wood pigeon on rocket (arugula.) It was so good I ordered the main course which was three breast of wood pigeon with mash and veg.

[ArmedBear]

Turville

Funny. Were it not for the context, I would have thought Turville was a jerkwater town in Central California.:)

[throdgrain]

BTW can you perhaps correct my understanding of "rough shooting" in British parlance? Does that just mean "anything but driven bird hunting" or does it mean something else?

Yeah you've pretty much hit the nail on the head. It's a stupid term really ..., if I was totally specific I'd probably say it meant unorganised shooting, i.e where you're walking along, rather than standing at a peg for driven pheasants, or decoying for pigeons etc.


They love to make things more complicated than it should be over here sometimes :)

[ArmedBear]

Rough Shooting would be where you don't bring along a pissboy?

(Reference to Mel Brooks, who does films and musicals with subject matter along the lines of Monty Python's movies, but with more of a Benny Hill aesthetic...:D)

UPDATE: Here it is. The French Revolution. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGAgu6zI9v0

NSFW. And yes, it does have shotgun shooting in the clip.:)

[throdgrain]

Only just ... :)

[slabuda]

AB
Yes throdgrain got it before me....I spent 12 yrs over in the UK and am vaguely familiar with it.

Rough shooting is when you hunt like we do. Walking the fields kicking up the birds as you go.

In some places if you have a good dog you can be paid by the game warden (more like a guide or the guy that runs the hunts on the land owners estates and not what we call our F&G folks)


I used to search for old coins etc on farms. If I had a shotgun there I could have shot as many wood pigeons as I wanted. Pheasant how ever would have been off limits unless I paid the game warden to go on a "shoot'. Not cheap either in some places. Same thing with rabbits to....farmers in some areas have big problems and are more than happy for you to take an air gun out for a cull

[throdgrain]

Quite right Slabuda. In fact it's still the legal obligation of the land owner to control the rabbit population. We dont eat rabbit much here, which is why you see them everywhere, at the side of the road, on roundabouts, everywhere. In France you never ever see a rabbit. Mind you, they eat everything ... :)

[winchester '97]

in the states we typically shoot morning doves for sport, pigeons because they are a nuisance, especially in barns if sitting in a tractor seat that is covered in pigeon crap isnt your thing. pigeons in the country can get quite large, and since they arent as filthy as their city cousins i have found they are rather tasty.