Reloading for Profit


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racerngr1
February 25, 2010, 01:15 AM
How many people on here reload with the intent of selling the reloaded ammo for money? Just curious really if it's worth it or just better to do it for yourself.

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chagasrod
February 25, 2010, 01:36 AM
Correct me If I'm Mistaken People but reload for profit is ILLEGAL.

racerngr1
February 25, 2010, 01:41 AM
I didn't know that, that's why I'm askin.

FatGeek
February 25, 2010, 01:50 AM
That is my understanding also. Requires an ammunition manufacturer's license. Without it the ATF makes mince meat out of you in court.

RippinSVT
February 25, 2010, 01:56 AM
Too much liability, and unless its in an uber-dollar calibers like one of the Nitro-Express rounds or some of the Weatherby's (among others), it wouldn't be worth my time. I could spend an hour loading up a couple hundred 9mm's, but I'd only make $5-10 on top of costs, so it certainly wouldn't be worth the time. The only time I know of where people I know have "sold" handloads has been when they'll thrown a box of 20-50rounds in with a wildcat-chambered gun they are selling.

Wilburt
February 25, 2010, 07:23 AM
This comes up every once in a while. I don't remember the link but a search should turn up some useful hints.

Basically if I remember right:

You need a special licence.
You need good liability insurance.
You need a lot of time on your hands to make it worthwhile.

Those are the highlights. Also ask yourself if turning a hobby into a business is worth it. You may not like to reload once it's a business and you have to.

ole farmerbuck
February 25, 2010, 07:51 AM
$30 and 30 pages to fill out and you can do it.

earlthegoat2
February 25, 2010, 08:23 AM
You can do it. Of course as above you need an 06 FFL license.

Companies like Georgia Arms and Ultramax started out reloading for profit. They kind of still do in a way with the "remanufactured" ammo they sell. I dont know if you use once fired brass but they definitely use other manufacturers brass.

deadeyedog270
February 25, 2010, 08:30 AM
so if my buddy wants me to reload some .38spl with wadcutters for paper targets he cann't give me a little $ to reimburse me for my powder,primers and bullets

earlthegoat2
February 25, 2010, 08:52 AM
I have had jobs where I got paid under the table. Not really significant earnings if you know what I mean. What they dont know cant hurt them right. Just know that it can hurt you if it gets out of control. Al Capone got busted for tax evasion in the end and like we all know there are only two absolutes in life: death and taxes.

I hope this roundabout way of explaining things is understandable.

RandyP
February 25, 2010, 09:06 AM
If you reload for a buddy and accept payment, you are a manufacturer and under Federal regulation, plus local zoning issues if any. You could also be found liable for any injury they might receive or cause if there is a malfunction of a round you supplied. "Buddy" ends and lawyers get involved as soon as a medical bill enters the equation. Massive insurance coverage is your friend and savior.

IMHO, it ain't worth it. MUCH safer to teach them how to reload themselves, even using your equipment and their components.

fourdollarbill
February 25, 2010, 09:26 AM
YES you can do it...
Just follow these simple rules as listed below and you'll be okay with the feds.
Then call your local and get their rules and hoops.

United States Code
TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 44 - FIREARMS
Section 921. Definitions
Section 922. Unlawful Acts
Section 923. Licensing
Section 924. Penalties
Section 925. Exceptions: Relief From Disabilities
Section 925A. Remedy For Erroneous Denial Of Firearm
Section 926. Rules And Regulations
Section 926A. Interstate Transportation Of Firearms
Section 927. Effect On State Law
Section 928. Separability
Section 929. Use Of Restricted Ammunition
Section 930. Possession Of Firearms And Dangerous Weapons In Federal Facilities
Section 931. Prohibition On Purchase, Ownership, Or Possession Of Body Armor By Violent Felons



Section 921. Definitions

(a) As used in this chapter -
(1) The term "person" and the term "whoever" include any
individual, corporation, company, association, firm, partnership,
society, or joint stock company.

(10) The term "manufacturer" means any person engaged in the
business of manufacturing firearms or ammunition for purposes of
sale or distribution; and the term "licensed manufacturer" means
any such person licensed under the provisions of this chapter.

(17)(A) The term "ammunition" means ammunition or cartridge
cases, primers, bullets, or propellent powder designed for use in
any firearm.

(21) The term "engaged in the business" means -
(B) as applied to a manufacturer of ammunition, a person who
devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing ammunition as
a regular course of trade or business with the principal
objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or
distribution of the ammunition manufactured;

(22) The term "with the principal objective of livelihood and
profit" means that the intent underlying the sale or disposition of
firearms is predominantly one of obtaining livelihood and pecuniary
gain, as opposed to other intents, such as improving or liquidating
a personal firearms collection: Provided, That proof of profit
shall not be required as to a person who engages in the regular and
repetitive purchase and disposition of firearms for criminal
purposes or terrorism. For purposes of this paragraph, the term
"terrorism" means activity, directed against United States persons,
which -



Section 922. Unlawful acts

(a) It shall be unlawful -
(1) for any person -

(B) except a licensed importer or licensed manufacturer, to
engage in the business of importing or manufacturing
ammunition, or in the course of such business, to ship,
transport, or receive any ammunition in interstate or foreign
commerce;


Section 923. Licensing

(a) No person shall engage in the business of importing,
manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or importing or
manufacturing ammunition, until he has filed an application with
and received a license to do so from the Attorney General. The
application shall be in such form and contain only that information
necessary to determine eligibility for licensing as the Attorney
General shall by regulation prescribe and shall include a
photograph and fingerprints of the applicant. Each applicant shall
pay a fee for obtaining such a license, a separate fee being
required for each place in which the applicant is to do business,
as follows:
(1) If the applicant is a manufacturer -
(A) of destructive devices, ammunition for destructive devices
or armor piercing ammunition, a fee of $1,000 per year;
(B) of firearms other than destructive devices, a fee of $50
per year; or
(C) of ammunition for firearms, other than ammunition for
destructive devices or armor piercing ammunition, a fee of $10
per year.


Section 924. Penalties

(a)(1) Except as otherwise provided in this subsection,
subsection (b), (c), or (f) of this section, or in section 929,
whoever -
(D) willfully violates any other provision of this chapter,
shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than five
years, or both.

oneounceload
February 25, 2010, 10:27 AM
so if my buddy wants me to reload some .38spl with wadcutters for paper targets he cann't give me a little $ to reimburse me for my powder,primers and bullets

It's easier, financially, legally, and liability-wise, to let your buddy reload his own components on your equipment

kludge
February 25, 2010, 10:42 AM
so if my buddy wants me to reload some .38spl with wadcutters for paper targets he cann't give me a little $ to reimburse me for my powder,primers and bullets

the term "engaged in the business" means -
(b) as applied to a manufacturer of ammunition, a person who
devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing ammunition as
a regular course of trade or business with the principal
objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or
distribution of the ammunition manufactured;


Oh, IANAL.

472x1A/B
February 25, 2010, 10:44 AM
To answer to you'er question racerngr1, nobody. Unless they have jumped through all the hoops of fire as required by law. Most of the above posts are valid, one most important, I did not see is the ITAR (International Traffic in Arms Regulations) fee. As of lsat year it was $2,250.00 per year. Most likely gone up just like everything else. So it's up to you if you want to reload for you'er self or for profit. By law you can't even sell, trade, or barter ONE round without all the right licens'es. Just shoot and reload for FUN.

navyretired 1
February 25, 2010, 10:45 AM
Load for someone and your breaking the law. Teach them to reloading and you birthed a new reloader instead of a pain.
Best stress releaver there is.

Jon_Snow
February 25, 2010, 10:51 AM
Load for someone and your breaking the law. Teach them to reloading and you birthed a new reloader instead of a pain.
Best stress releaver there is.

Not quite. If you buddy buys all the components and you reload them, you're legally in the clear. You just can't have him compensate you for your time. Of course, this opens you up to potential liability if anything goes wrong and that's why most member here will advise against it. Navy's right, teaching your friend to reload is a much better option. Like they say; build a fire for a man and he'll be warm for a day, light him on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. Or something like that.

deadeyedog270
February 25, 2010, 11:52 AM
It's easier, financially, legally, and liability-wise, to let your buddy reload his own components on your equipment

well as for this goes I would have him buy everthing he needs and i would have to reload for him, he is 65+ years old almost wheelchair bound dew to his knees and can not get to my relaoding room (up 20 stairs)
maybe i will make a few up for him see how he like them and see if he wants a reload setup then get the bullets,powders and primers when i order mine to save on hazmat and shipping + he dose not have a computer to order things

jester_s1
February 26, 2010, 11:32 AM
People can buy factory ammo for a lot less that I would charge them to load for them. Skilled labor should run at least $20 an hour plus a little extra for equipment wear and liability. If a buddy is in that big of a fix for ammo, I'll teach him how to load and might even let him use my stuff until he gets his own.

chagasrod
February 26, 2010, 03:54 PM
If you reload for a buddy and accept payment, you are a manufacturer and under Federal regulation, plus local zoning issues if any. You could also be found liable for any injury they might receive or cause if there is a malfunction of a round you supplied. "Buddy" ends and lawyers get involved as soon as a medical bill enters the equation. Massive insurance coverage is your friend and savior.

IMHO, it ain't worth it. MUCH safer to teach them how to reload themselves, even using your equipment and their components.
Very Well Put "RandyP"

qajaq59
February 27, 2010, 07:20 AM
The best way to ruin a good hobby is to try and turn it into a business.

navyretired 1
February 28, 2010, 11:19 AM
The shop I work at has a limited amount of normal reloading equipment, but is heavy into benchrest/precision loading.
I recently told a very frustrated fellow that I would show him the various kinds of loading equipment and show him how to load with the different kinds of press's etc..
My Boss wasn't real happy and thought it would be a pain. Since then I've started a class on learning. I don't touch any equipment my self and we don't actually load any live ammo. I've had to limit how many people can set in the room we have available but the boss is happy. we've sold out all the loading manuals twice and reloading supplies ordering has taken up half my work time. BTW about 1/3 people who enter shop have been asking for me which has doubled my gun sales.
I think shop have kind of given up on reloading supplies because of the catalogs selling at barely above wholesale. The thing is people will spend money where they get the results they want (hands on).
We've sold 1 set of Redding custom bushing benchrest dies this month $126.00 and it took 1 month to receive, I've ordered and sold 25 sets of RCBS, and Lee dies that arrived 2 day's later and the people come and picked them up usually the same day.
Now they want me to teach them lead casting but I don'tthink I want to because of the lead dangers and ventelation issues involved. I did order 20 of Lymans latest cast bullet manual and voluteered to answer questions not covered in book (not much).
This ammo dry spell because of hoarding is not over and jacketed bullets are still tough to get but reloading is growth industry and a money maker for business' right now. It's a hard sell when the boss looks at supplies hanging on wall which has been there for 20 years, but he does see the increases in sales.

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