Alternative to Trijicon ACOG


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Smiley
February 25, 2010, 09:32 PM
Is there a more affordable yet still quality alternative to the Trijicon ACOG? Looking for a fixed low power yet still quality sight ofr my AR.

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Bartholomew Roberts
February 25, 2010, 09:36 PM
Have you considered the Compact ACOGs or the Trijicon Accupoints? The Accupoints are cheaper, have many of the same features and while not tank-like rugged like the ACOGs, are still plenty tough.

Z-Michigan
February 25, 2010, 09:49 PM
It's not quite in the same league but the UK commonwealth "SUIT" or "Trilux" telescopic sight for the L1A1 (inch FAL) can be found for a couple hundred and is a military spec and quality 4x prismatic sight. It does not offer (in the form you'll find it) tritium and you would have to find a mount, but mounts are available.

Burris has a newish prismatic sight that is precisely the type of thing you're asking for, but most of the reviews I've read on it are bad, talking about an off-center reticle and general fragility. YMMV.

http://www.opticsplanet.net/burris-ar-332-3x-32mm-prism-red-dot-sight.html

There are a lot of quality low-magnification telescopic sights in the sporting market that are in the couple $100 range. They aren't military and may not be quite as tough as a Trijicon ACOG, but unless you're jumping in and out of APCs all day they would likely work fine.

Zerodefect
February 25, 2010, 11:33 PM
Aimpoint ML3 and Aimpoint magnifier in a Larue LT129 cantilever and Larue flip mounts. gives you 1x reddot and 3x that you can switch quickly or just leave the mag off if it isn't needed. I love this setup. Plus you can use the reddot on multiple rifles due to the QR mount.

Unfortunatly it'll cost as much as an ACOG. LOL.......nevermind.

steven58
February 25, 2010, 11:49 PM
Primary Arms has a fixed 4X with illuminated BDC reticule for $109 http://www.primaryarms.com/product.sc?productId=206&categoryId=2 They have a good reputation over at AR15.com. This scope was well reviewed there as well.

badbadtz560
February 26, 2010, 12:26 AM
i've heard good things about the primary arms ones too.. only that the 4x scopes haven't been i nstock for like half a year.

Primary arms also sells cheaper version of those magnifiers though.. just incase you'd want to pair up an aimpoint with a primary arms magnifier

Tully M. Pick
February 26, 2010, 12:47 AM
I know it's not a fixed power, but take a peek at the Millet DMS-1.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=186660

I've heard nothing but good things about them for a couple years now.

Wes Janson
February 26, 2010, 08:27 AM
There's a reason why Trijicon sells so many ACOGs.

They work.


And there's a reason why all of the Chinese clones cost 1/10 as much: they don't work.

Buy once, cry once.

P.B.Walsh
February 26, 2010, 12:11 PM
USO has a fixed 4x, it's roughly the same price depending on how far you want to customixe it.

nwilliams
February 26, 2010, 12:44 PM
I keep wanting to order a Primary Arms optic but they are always out of stock on their website.:( I hear nothing but great things about their budget optics.

Although I have to say that upon close inspection the one Primary Arms sells on their website looks remarkably like this one sold on Amazon.com made by COI....
http://www.amazon.com/Fixed-Power-Scope-Tactical-Weaver/dp/B002TRDOYG/ref=sr_1_28?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1267203421&sr=8-28

smoothdraw
February 26, 2010, 06:28 PM
There's also another reason why ACOG sells.

Looking at an ACOG is like watching blu-ray. Looking at other scopes will look like watching VHS or DVD at best. Try to use one and you'll love it. Do i have one? No because i do not have use for it and I use Aimpoint red dots for my intended purpose. But if i need a medium range scope then it will be ACOG.

Really depends on your use. Also ACOG do not need batteries and autoadjust it's dot brightness. And get the chevron it is so useful for holds.

GIJOEL
February 26, 2010, 06:33 PM
If your looking for a straight red-dot type sight C-mores are tough, and very well made, they have a few models that are specificaly for the AR platform. ACOGs are nice, but for the price I think there are better options for the civilan shooter.

snakyjake
March 1, 2010, 01:50 AM
I've been entertaining the thought of the Eotech XPS for $600. But as a poor civilian, $600 is way too much for something I may never use in real combat. So I'm hoping there's some Chinese/Russian price competition to control these runaway made in USA, government contract prices.

nwilliams
March 1, 2010, 02:09 AM
I've been entertaining the thought of the Eotech XPS for $600. But as a poor civilian, $600 is way too much for something I may never use in real combat. So I'm hoping there's some Chinese/Russian price competition to control these runaway made in USA, government contract prices.

Actually you can get a great deal on an Eotech if you shop around a little. The packages that GG&G sells are probably the best deal out there....
http://www.gggaz.com/index.php?id=93&parents=84,86

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
March 1, 2010, 02:20 AM
Buy once, cry once.

Hmmm, that ain't gonna work since I want about 5 different kinds of ACOGs. Man I love these - they are worth the money IMO, if you aren't shooting a big boomer where you need the eye relief.

The accupoints are variable, not fixed, but they are great optically like the ACOGs, and also very lightweight for their class, as scopes go.

No reason not to get a variable IMO. The Millett on a budget, or the Accupoint on a bit higher budget but lower than ACOG-budget.

A red dot plus magnifier is rather heavy - be forewarned.

Lloyd Smale
March 1, 2010, 09:18 AM
if your looking for rugged nothing is going to touch a acog. Not even an accupoint. Ive got both and theres a place for both but the rifle i use to protect my family has an acog on it. theres nothing at any price range that is any more reliable and rugged.

Destructo6
March 1, 2010, 10:17 AM
The Eclan Specter M145 can be found on Ebay, regularly, for $350-$450. New, these are in the $1200 range. They are a very nice, 3.4x fixed power optic, with clear glass, and are very rugged. They are also illuminated by battery power, though you only need that under low light.

The most common version is the M145C machinegun optic. Less common is the M145M4 for the M4. The difference is in the reticle.

X-Rap
March 1, 2010, 10:48 AM
So I'm hoping there's some Chinese/Russian price competition to control these runaway made in USA, government contract prices.
Ya and with luck you can have it built by the same 15 year slave old that built your I phone.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1254221/Apple-admits-using-child-labour-build-iPods-iPhones-Chinese-factories.html

GunTech
March 1, 2010, 01:31 PM
The Burris AR-332 is another possibility. You can find them for around $300 and they look fairly decent. I haven't had a chance to really wring one out however.

http://www.burrisoptics.com/ar332.html

essayons21
March 1, 2010, 03:16 PM
I like the Millet DMS http://www.millettsights.com/scopes/dms/

MidwayUSA puts them on sale every now and then for around $200. Its not as bombproof as an ACOG or ELCAN, but for range and HD use it is more than enough.

c5_nc
March 1, 2010, 03:25 PM
I could never quite understand the magnified scope on a AR thing. Aquiring the target is so much quicker on 1x. I think I would rather have a $69 Primary Arms aimpoint clone than a ACOG if I had to use it to defend myself.

sarduy
March 1, 2010, 03:38 PM
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41qev3WwlcL._SL500_AA280_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/Bushnell-Tactical-Elite-Green-Riflescope/dp/B0019SS8CE

Destructo6
March 1, 2010, 05:27 PM
I could never quite understand the magnified scope on a AR thing. Aquiring the target is so much quicker on 1x. I think I would rather have a $69 Primary Arms aimpoint clone than a ACOG if I had to use it to defend myself.
Have you used various ACOGs, Aimpoints, Eotechs, etc on ARs? I don't think someone who has used various high-end optics on ARs would make such a statement.

If you have, what did you use and why didn't you like it?

Zerodefect
March 1, 2010, 07:17 PM
An Aimpoint or Eotech is alot faster than an ACOG 0-200yds. The ACOG is a bit faster at longer ranges 200-300.

The ACOG is a both eyes open type of sight like the Aimpoint. And its clarity can often make it quicker and more effective than cheap 1x sights.

I'm left eye dominant. I have trouble using ACOGs with my right eye. So i prefere Aimpoints. Being able to shoot lefty and righty equally is very important for defense. I pop on a magnifier in a Larue pivoting mount for the rare occasion I need magnification.

Justin
March 1, 2010, 07:45 PM
I could never quite understand the magnified scope on a AR thing. Aquiring the target is so much quicker on 1x. I think I would rather have a $69 Primary Arms aimpoint clone than a ACOG if I had to use it to defend myself.

With an ACOG TA-11 and a Progressive Machining Occluded Eye scope cover, I can and have engaged targets from point-blank to 500 yards with an AR15. My Aimpoint Micro T1 may be just a bit faster than the TA11/OEG setup, but only just.

As far as I'm concerned, ACOG's and AR's go together like peanut butter and jelly.

Coronach
March 1, 2010, 08:43 PM
Yeah. I can't imagine wanting to use a red dot knock-off for serious use over a genuine ACOG. Preferring a real Aimpoint? Sure. For a dedicated close-in gun, I can see that. But once you add in the quality/durability angle, heh. I'm pretty sure that opinion is unique among people who have actually used the optics in question (assuming he has).

Mike

Wes Janson
March 1, 2010, 09:32 PM
The Eclan Specter M145 can be found on Ebay, regularly, for $350-$450. New, these are in the $1200 range. They are a very nice, 3.4x fixed power optic, with clear glass, and are very rugged. They are also illuminated by battery power, though you only need that under low light.


I guaran-frigging-tee you that those are cheap Chinese clones of the Elcan Spectre, rather than the real thing. The actual optic is going to be over $1000, new OR used.

I could never quite understand the magnified scope on a AR thing. Aquiring the target is so much quicker on 1x. I think I would rather have a $69 Primary Arms aimpoint clone than a ACOG if I had to use it to defend myself.

Go run it through a couple of carbine competitions, or a class or two, and then come back and see if you still feel like making that same statement.

Z-Michigan
March 1, 2010, 11:48 PM
The Eclan Specter M145 can be found on Ebay, regularly, for $350-$450. New, these are in the $1200 range. They are a very nice, 3.4x fixed power optic, with clear glass, and are very rugged.

I looked for this because it sounded great. I couldn't find any Elcan magnified optics under $1000 (mostly well over 1k). They do seem to have an Aimpoint type dot that goes for around $450, but anything magnified is above ACOG prices. Do you have any links or more info? If there's a great deal to be had, I want it!

PzGren
March 2, 2010, 12:36 AM
This is an interesting thread. I am considering the purchase of an ACOG since years but have not pulled the trigger on a purchase, yet.

Maybe this thread helps.

Zerodefect
March 2, 2010, 12:46 AM
Check out ar15.com as well for ACOG info in the optics section. Seems the older ACOGs are the most well rounded and the newer ones can be odd. At $1500 these take alot of reseach to figure out.

The Ta11 is a safe bet i think. Trijicons website has all the specs. Eye relief is a key one. There's a new green recticle as well. I like the one recticle that has both the standard black rifle scope recitcle and the illuminated dot.

Destructo6
March 2, 2010, 10:33 AM
I guaran-frigging-tee you that those are cheap Chinese clones of the Elcan Spectre, rather than the real thing. The actual optic is going to be over $1000, new OR used.
Lots of fakes, certainly. I bought and later sold a M145C on Ebay not long ago. Having owned and used other Elcan products in the past, I'm confident it was the real deal. Took me a while (6 months) to find one at a decent price, but they are out there.

crazed_ss
March 2, 2010, 12:04 PM
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41qev3WwlcL._SL500_AA280_.jpg
http://www.amazon.com/Bushnell-Tactical-Elite-Green-Riflescope/dp/B0019SS8CE

I have this scope. It uses batteries. It's just a 1x T-Dot. It works quite well, but it's got nothing on an ACOG other than the fact that it looks like an ACOG.

Wes Janson
March 2, 2010, 08:03 PM
Lots of fakes, certainly. I bought and later sold a M145C on Ebay not long ago. Having owned and used other Elcan products in the past, I'm confident it was the real deal. Took me a while (6 months) to find one at a decent price, but they are out there.

There are Elcan red dots on eBay in the $500 price range, but they're *NOT* the DR magnified optics. And for $500, you might as well buy an Aimpoint with an extremely solid and proven track record.

Destructo6
March 3, 2010, 10:29 AM
There are Elcan red dots on eBay in the $500 price range, but they're *NOT* the DR magnified optics.
I said Elcan Specter "M145", not Elcan Specter"DR or Dual Role". I've had the Specter DR and would love to have another, but don't have the money for it. I did not confuse the two.

Like I said, I bought a M145C for under $500, sold it for more than $500. Just gotta be watchful and patient.

There's a Specter Dr on Ebay now at $500 (4 days left, at present).

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