[lissell]

I have been looking for my first ccw handgun for a while now. I originally looked at automatics since they are what i was most familiar with, however after holding a few revolvers i have changed my tune a bit.

It looks like im going to be getting a .357 airlite. The problem is i know next to nothing about revolvers. Ive never shot one and am looking for a range, or possibly a friend who will let me put a few rounds thru one. In the meantime i wanted to get some opinions. Do any of you folks own one? How does it shoot, what does the kick feel like, is it very easy to control? If there are any ladies out there who have one your opinion would especially be appreciated. Also, how do you carry? Is it small enough to have on your hip or are you carrying in a bag?

Thanks for any help, and for tolerating all my questions.


-lissell

[Preacherman]

Lissell, I can't recommend strongly enough that you do NOT buy one until you've had a chance to fire it, as well as other guns that might be suitable for you. The reasons are as follows:

1. I have no idea how much shooting experience you already have. You say you're "most familiar with" automatics - what auto's? How many rounds have you fired? How accurate are you with them? A great deal depends on your background. If you've only fired a few rounds through a friend's gun(s), then there's a lot still to learn. If you've fired hundreds of rounds through multiple pistols, and are pretty accurate, that's an entirely different story! For this answer, I'm assuming you're a relative beginner. Please forgive me if I'm wrong...

2. A snubnose revolver is one of the most difficult handguns to shoot well. The tiny size means that recoil is magnified; the small grip means that it's difficult to control in recoil without practice; and the small sights mean that getting a clear sight picture for an accurate shot is difficult to accomplish quickly (again, without practice). They're great self-defence instruments for one with training and experience: but for a beginner, they can be very difficult to master.

3. The weight of the gun is very important in relation to the round you intend to carry in it. A titanium or scandium .357 Magnum, loaded with .357 Magnum rounds, is extremely difficult (and painful!) to fire fast and accurately. Personally, I think they're past the point of diminishing returns. An Airweight revolver (aluminum and steel) is slightly easier to control, being a bit heavier, but still pretty difficult. Even an all-steel snubby, with full-house .357 loads, is hard to control. On the other hand, going to a .38 Special +P load is more manageable (at the cost of reduced velocity and bullet effectiveness). So, if you want an Airweight or lighter snubby, you're going to have to work hard to learn to use it effectively, and probably go with less-high-performance ammunition.

3. There are viable alternatives to snubnose revolvers in modern pistols. For example, the Kahr PM9 is a lightweight 9mm. pistol that is actually easier to conceal than a snubby! If you're already familiar with pistols, this might be a better option for you.

Hope these comments have helped. Please feel free to ask any questions you wish - we're a friendly bunch, and glad to help!

[Albert Shear]

I too had disregarded the lighter revolvers for years. I had not shot any of them, just a personal bias based on various opinions. Well, fast forward to present. My arthritis dictates something lighter for carry now. I shot quite a few different brands and models and eventually focused on two. I now use in my carry rotation two S&W TiSc 340s(357mag-Federal Personal Defense 130gr HydraShok) and two S&W Airweight 642s(38+p-Corbon 125gr +p).
The 340 weighs in at 12ozs each and the 642 is 15ozs each. I find I have no problem controlling either one. Not that I want to shoot them all day but for 30-50 rounds it is not as bad as I had anticipated.

[Highland Ranger]

Recommendation to try it out first should still stand though.

How comfortable one is shooting a particular gun is a function of hand size, strength, and just personal preference as well as all the gun parameters (weight, type of grip, etc. etc.)

Recently shot a 44 mag for the first time, was expecting the thing to take my arm off with the 300 gr full house loads and frankly, it wasn't any big deal. I have 1911's that kick worse.

Try it out . . . .

[TonyB]

Ditto the above......try one first....I bought an airweight 38 and hated it......too punishing..maybe I'm a whimp....I went to an SP101(Ruger) in 357mag.....weighs 25oz (unloaded)and it alot more contollable for me..I like to shoot a lot and carry alot......one of those light 357's is more a carry lots shoot almost never(IMO)......a snubby is a great gun......but hard to master......may I suggest maybe a 3" tube????not that much harder to conceal and a little easier to shoot..(if I was thinking I wouldv'e got my SP in a 3")....good luck with the search for a CCW..........you can't beat revolvers for reliability they go bang everytime and there's not mistaking the "look" of a snubby(the BG won't be thinking "gee is that a REAL gun?"):cool:

[outfieldjack]

I bought my 340pd a few weeks ago.... I had heard all of the "horro stories" about the recoil.... I started with .38's at the range and the WAS a pretty big recoil. I went up to .357's and the recoil was even worse. Even had my hand hurting after shooting 5-10 rounds.

Now, every chance I get during lunch, I go to the range and run 10-15 rounds of 357 thru the gun. I am getting used to the recoil and I have found different ways to hold the gun to reduce recoil and lessen the "pain". I think when you know a gun "might" hurt a little when shooting it it helps reduce the pain.

Now I can run 15 rounds thru at 10 yards with pretty good accuracy. My hand still stings a little but I am going to stick with it and keep up with the practice.

I agree with the other posters though..... TRY one out first. Especially if you do not have much shooting experience. Maybe a steel .38 would be better.

Jack

[JoeHatley]

lissell,

This is my wife's carry gun. She uses her handbag or jacket pocket.

http://www.iowatelecom.net/~hatley/642_2r.jpg

.38 special +P, 642-2 Airweight

The other posters are correct, it can be a handful durring practice, but it is very controlable with experience. It actually is quite accurate.

I would not however, want to use a similar weight gun with .357 loads.

Good Luck...

Joe

[Gordon]

I think a 3" barrel (or so) conceals better in a holster (not inside a pocket) worn on a belt than a snub nose. The barrel pulls the butt against body. It also raises velocity and increases sgihting plane ALOT. That said it is hard to beat a 360 S&W Kit Gun scandium for ( almost non existant) weight to horsepower ratio! For anti personnel load a good + power .38 load like the Win personnel defense load would not be abusive. For bears when hiking(or BIG perps) the 180 grain partition Gold is survivable for a few rounds-by the shooter only!!!;)

[Dave T]

I have seen a number of these in my CCW classes in the last few years (since S&W introduced them). In my opinion a 357 Magnum Airlite (what you asked about) would be a mistake. Particularly since you said you have no experience with a revolver.

... is it very easy to control?

NO! Most of the people answering positively are experienced shooters. Again, in my experience beginners have a very hard time with the ultra light revolvers, even in 38 Special.

If it is unpleasant to shoot you won't practice. If you don't practice you will not be able to hit you intended target quickly and accurately. If you can't hit what you're shooting at, having the gun doesn't do much good.

You will hear a lot of counter arguments to this, from "you can hit when you have to" to "just showing them you have a gun is enough". I don't buy any of that.

YMMV!

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

I suggest you pass on that particular model----a .357 in that small-light-gun is going to be one hand stinging SOB.

S&W is going to the extreme on some models---such as the 27oz .44 mag---because there is a demand for it and some people will buy anything.

These guns will have punishing recoil with full power loads and hardly a sense-able choice.

I bet you can find used---barely shot---one cheap --if you are really set on getting one.

[outfieldjack]

Here is a pic of my 340pd, .357 with an uncle Mikes pocket holster.....

http://home.sc.rr.com/jackswebsite/Jacks/sm340.JPG

[Kentucky Rifle]

My Glock 27 has a reputation for stout recoil. However, the G27's recoil was NOTHING compaired to the AirLite .357 S&W from which I managed to fire all five shots. (My hand hurts just thinking about it.) I own an AirLite and I like it very much, but the caliber is .32 H&R magnum.

KR

[lissell]

Thanks for all the info guys. I was wondering how the recoil would be as no one i know really shoots revolvers and hasnt a clue.

I dont plan on buying anything until i can shoot it, the arilight just seems like an ideal carry gun.

Since a lot of people think the kick may be a bit much, could you suggest something else? Right now im going on company reputation and what ive seen at my dads local FFL, not a lot of useful advice as they are all fairly large men, and im a tiny little thing in comparison.

like i said, thanks for all the input.

lissell

[Preacherman]

Lissell, an Airweight snubby may, indeed, be a good choice for you - it's just that you're going to have to practice a lot to be good with it. I also think it's unlikely to work for you with .357 Magnum rounds - .38 Special +P's will probably be a lot more manageable.

I'd like to nominate a number of firearms you could look at, and perhaps try to shoot before making a decision. The criteria I used to nominate these guns was that they had to be easily concealable in a purse or on your person, not too heavy, and manageable (in terms of accurate, rapid fire) for defensive use.

1. Kahr Arms: their P-series 9mm. pistols, especially the P9 and PM9.

2. The Bersa .380 pistol - the .380 ACP is roughly equivalent to the .38 Special in "stopping power", although both rounds fall a bit below the 9mm.

3. A normal-weight snubnose revolver, preferably in stainless steel, will be much easier to control than an Airweight, Titanium or Scandium version. If you really want to shoot .357 Magnum, do yourself a BIG favor and try the Ruger SP101. It's the heaviest of the snubbies, and the largest, but those very attributes also make it the most controllable!

4. The Glock 26 or the Springfield XD sub-compact, both in 9mm. Both are excellent guns, and very reliable. They're a bit fatter than the other pistols, as they have double-stack magazines, but are relatively easy to shoot well. Personally, if you're comfortable with semi-auto pistols, I think one of these two would be the optimum choice for you (assuming you can conceal and carry it without difficulty).

Finally, with whatever handgun you try, remember that replacement or add-on grips are available to make it fit your hand better. For pistols, there are rubber "overgrips" that can be fitted. In snubbies, there are any number of options. The better the gun fits your hand, the better you'll shoot it, and the better you'll be able to control recoil.

I'd also suggest that you establish contact with Pax, one of our moderators. She lives in Oregon, and does a fair amount of shooting and training. She may well be able to point you in the direction of some good shooting clubs or training courses in your area, and if you're close enough, I'm sure she'd be happy to spend some time with you. Send her a PM or an e-mail!

Hope this helps.

[Airboss]

Recoil is a function of weight the more the gun weighs the less the felt recoil.
Small steps will get you to where you want to be better than a leap off the edge of a cliff.
With that said here is my $0.02 worth find a 3" steel Revolver in .38 spec.Shoot the heck out of it and carry it.
I think that you spending the extra time/money in practice will pay dividends.
When you are confident that you can draw and fire and hit @ 7 yards with either hand well enough to bet your life on it and the life of those you love,then is a great time to start trying to refine your carry gun ie. saveing a couple of Oz. in weight,going to a shorter barrel,steping up in cal.or a combination of all of them.
The key thing is practice,practice,ect.if you can't hit first time every time, guess what,it doesn't matter what you shoot.Untill you get confortable with weak hand shooting about 1/3 of the rounds down range should be from the weak hand.Why?If you take a round in your strong arm/hand/side it might be nice to be able to finish the fight and win!
If you don't hand load and you decide to get go with a .38spec. find a deal on 1000 rounds of .38 and put in the range time.Don't go with idea of just makeing noise and trying to punch a few holes in paper.Go with a plan.Most gun fights occure very close and happen very fast.When you can hit first time every time at 3-4ft the try 3 yards then 5 yards and then 7 yards.YMMV

[Clemson]

Lissell, I personally carry an Airlite S&W in .38 special (a Model 342). It is controllable and not too difficlut to shoot with standard .38 special ammunition. With Plus P ammunition, it is less pleasant to shoot. It doesn't bother me, but I have been shooting pistols for years. I recently took my wife to the range, and she had an opportunity to shoot a Model 642. It is an "Airweight" vs. the "Airlite." She is a small woman who shoots very infrequently. She had absolutely no problems shooting the 642 accurately. For carry in a purse, the 642 would be just about as handy as a 342. The weight difference is only 3-4 ounces. That amounts to about 20% in gun weight, however, so the difference is fairly noticeable when shooting.

Your initial inclination to buy a revolver is a good one. I highly recommend a revolver for personal defense, particularly if it is your only gun. Those who recommend that you try one are on target. I would suggest that you might sign up for an NRA Basic Pistol class. That class will have you shooting both revolvers and pistols so that you see the differences in how they feel and operate. You can then choose from a base of knowledge rather than just opinion.

Good luck!

Clemson

[E=MC^2]

I carry a S&W 340PD in the chest pocket of my coveralls every day. Great little gun. VERY accurate. Exact point-of-impact to point-of-aim relationship.

My carry load is Federal's 125gr JHP "Hi-Shok"(not Hydra) in .357. A 10-shot string I chronographed last weekend showed they average 1204 fps. I thought that was very fast considering the barrel is just a hair under 2". Also, I fired this string at a temperature of 12-degrees below zero. I'm sure a warmer temp would have made slightly more pressure thus bringing the velocities up.

My previous 38spl +P carry load--Winchester's 125gr Silvertips--exited the barrel doing 880fps. I made the change just a few months ago to gain the added energy. It's less comfortable to shoot but it seems a lot more comforting.

I have well over a thousand rounds through mine and it locks up like a new piece. My previous 342PD also saw alot of range time but still brought a great price when I traded it in on this newer, magnum version.

[JPM70535]

If you are willing to practice with a snubby, often enough to master the shortcomings inherent in the breed, they will make a fine carry weapon. Weight IMO is the factor that will make the difference in acceptance or rejection. My choice in a 357 snubby would be the S&W 640 or 649 in
Stainless Steel. The few extra ounces in weight are not going to be noticeable after a few weeks carry, and it (weight) will make a tremendous difference in shootability from a comfort standpoint.

My personal choice is the 649 simply because should you ever want or need to thumb cock the hammer for single action shooting (WHY), it gives you that option, and the hammer is still snag proof.

All that being said, shooting full factory 125gr JHP 357 magnums through any snubby J frame is not one of my favorite pasttimes, 38 special 148 WCs make a much more pleasant practice load. Shoot a couple cylinders full of the magnums every time you go to the range, carry it loaded with same load and when the SHTF you will not be outgunned.

[tiberius]

I absolutely love shooting full power 125’s and 158’s from my M60. It is of course a SS j-frame .357 mag and has enough weight IMHO to damp out the worst of the recoil. It is, however very loud and very “flashy”. I do worry about the long term wear they put on the gun though so I generally just practice with warn hard cast 158 SWCs.

A lot of people have a difficult time shooting the snubby (at any power level) when they first try and are turned off, but with a little practice it can be readily “mastered”. I cannot think of a more versatile carry gun than a small frame .357 mag. Its even pocketable if you need that.

[PigPen]

I sometimes think that people (Knowledgeble though they be) are missing an important point when assessing the weight of a firearm and the related recoil while shooting it at and assailant.

I am not talking about a piece that you intend to fire. That's a totally different story. I am talking about a piece that you intend to carry. Maybe for years but certainly long periods, many times and probably (Maybe) never fire. When considering such a weapon it seems to me that several things should be considered differently than other firearms which may be fired at the bench.

First thing I think of is, would I actully carry this piece or leave it at home or in the car or wherever so that I don't have to pull my pants up constantly. If it's not accessable, nothing else matters at all.

Next I suppose is whether the caliber is sufficient to deter an assailant. This may not be as important as you think. About any caliber will deter a with a reasonable man and maybe no caliber would deter a mad man (who by the way would be far less likely to present).

Perhaps thirdly, I consider the cartridge. Assuming I can hit my detractor with the weapon chosen, and firing it alone does not deter him, then I want to stop him with as few shots as possible. Given that the assailant must be either a madman or at least very determined to continue to attack after hearing shots fired.

I carry a S&W Mod. 649 loaded with #5 - Winchester 158gr. +P lead semi wad cutter HP. If that doesn't stop an assailant, I guess I'll try a big stick and hope help arrives soon.

I don't much care about the recoil as I will probably never think of it in the heat of the moment and some say I will never remain cool enough to aim and fire the first shot accurately .

A range piece is a totally different firearm and totally dofferent considerations would fall into place.

-DD-

[JCM298]

I've got the 340SC. I knew in advance that it would kick but I wanted a light weight .357 since my Model 649 was a "drag" in pocket carry. Even knowing that it would kick, the recoil surprised me. The "beast" kicks like a mule. Somebody said it's like "shaking hands with the devil". I agree.

I would not recommend a Sc/Ti for a first revolver. Snubs are hard to shoot and the lighter they get, the harder it is to shoot them.

John

[Mastrogiacomo]

Lissell -- I'm a lady shooter as well. The first gun I got with the S&W 442 (double action, snubbie revolver). I was proud of myself and like you, knew nothing about guns or fired one. Worse -- I didn't know about the gun forums. If I had, I would have gone with the Beretta first. Instead it was my second, third, and fourth gun. (They're really sweet:D )

At the range with my teacher, the snubbie hurt like Hell, scared me to death, and I couldn't hit anything with it. I just couldn't get used to it. Tried the Beretta (which I also never shot before that day) LOVED IT... and nailed the bull's eye. I really recommend either you rent one first or at least buy something with weight and a barrel for accuracy.

Snubbies are rarely accuate and the rule tends to be that the lighter they are, the more the recoil will hurt. If you want a nice revolver, look at the Ruger GP 100 in a 3" barrel. (Rugers are also much less costly than the S&W which is a nice bonus.) I plan to buy a couple myself. I currently have the S&W 686 in a 4" which is probably one of the best guns out there which really soaks up recoil. In a .357 revolver, you can shoot .38 ammo through it so it's very manageable and a joy to shoot. My guns at the moment are two Beretta compacts type M (single stack eight rounds), and one Beretta 92FS full size. I plan to get a Walther P99 in a 9mm too and of course the Ruger revolvers in a 3."

Count yourself lucky you had the common sense to ask a forum before you wasted your money. Good luck.

[Mastrogiacomo]

By the way, I really don't recommend putting a gun in a purse. If it gets stolen, they get a free loaded gun. It's always better to keep it on your hip, in a shoulder holster, or in a fanny pack. Keeping it in the purse also opens it to all kinds of lint and crud. A dirty gun isn't an effective gun.

[JCM298]

lissell,

I sent you a PM,

John