I'm confused: 10mm woods carry question


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c919
February 27, 2010, 04:29 PM
Ok so I'm finally getting around to tasting the infamous kool aid. I'm looking at a G20 as my new woods gun and I have come across some confusing info.

***Now before I continue, I want to make it known that I don't want any comments about how I need a .44/.45lc/.454 etc... blah blah. No pun intended, but I have weighed out the pros/cons of this choice and I just can't see myself lugging around a big ol' six gun on some of the hikes I go on. I just need something on the light side of the woods gun spectrum.

So anyhow, I would want to carry a the most powerful round possible such as Buffalo Bore or Double Tap, but I have a question. With the hexagonal rifling, I know lead is a no-no (not to mention it's an auto), but on Double Tap's web page it says that the test gun they used for the hardcast 200 gr was a G20. The 200 gr hardcast would seem to be ideal for black bear and boar, but naturally I would assume I shouldn't use this in a G20. I guess this stuff is aimed at the 10mm revolver owners.

Can anyone shed some light on this for me? Did they perhaps use a non-hex rifled barrel for these tests?

Also, assuming that I shouldn't use the hardcast stuff in a G20, what full power loads from these companies would you suggest for black bear/boar? I assume 200 gr FMJ's would be the next best thing, right?

ETA: I hear that when using these full power loads in the newer G20's one should swap to a heavier recoil spring to avoid losing velocity due to the breach face opening prematurely. Have any of you made this switch? If so, how heavy of a spring would you suggest?

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Gunfighter123
February 27, 2010, 05:11 PM
I've heard/seen MANY people useing lead in a standard Glock ---- YOU MUST CLEAN it and REALLY scrub the brl. every X number of shots. I would bet that 4 or 5 rds. of DTs lead loads , followed by a good brl. scrub would not hurt at all. Then carry a mag full while in the woods.

2nd choice would be 200 gr. or heavier FMJs , IMHO

Search here for much more info;
http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/10mm-Talk-Forums-f187.html&

jmortimer
February 27, 2010, 05:57 PM
Sorry you don't want to hear it - A semi-auto pistol is not a good gun for the woods - even if we ignore the dirt and rough conditions, there are only a couple calibers that could even qualify in the first place. The Desert Eagle in .50 AE and the Grizzly .44 mag (revolver caliber) would be two. If you want a .44 mag get a revolver. If you want a gun for the back country get a revolver.
Even the "Heavy 10 mm from Buffalo Bore is "less gun" than the "Heavy .357 mag" - The Buffalo Bore FMJ would be your best choice if you go with the 10mm. With large bore revolver calibers like the .45 Colt (11.43 mm) you will get four feet or even more of penetration. The semi-auto users point to firepower but a large bear will be more impressed with a single four foot plus wound channel as opposed to 4 or 5 two foot wound channels. Lead Hard Cast bullets in the LBT design out of large bore revolvers is the way to go unless you will only encounter smaller critters and people. Why fight reality.

davepool
February 27, 2010, 05:57 PM
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg279/dpool50/momandglock007.jpg

Here are some examples of full power 10mm that would be good for protection against critters that bite. If you want to use lead ammo you can get an after market barrel and avoid any problems , the KKM was $165.00, i also have a lone wolf i paid $114.00 for. I did switch to a stainless steel guide rod with a heavier spring, i can't remember the weight it was a couple of years ago and my memory is starting to go as i get older :) ( i think i'm almost 60 er ah 59, **** i forgot) any way you can email Mike McNett at DoubleTap he's really helpful.

Besides i'd rather have 15 rounds and a quick reload than 6 rounds. If you miss 6 times with the G20 you still have 9 more tries

davepool
February 27, 2010, 06:21 PM
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg279/dpool50/coltglockSWs009.jpg

If you're worried that you might run into Bigfoot,you could carry one these little guys, if you run out of bullets you could beat him on the head with it :)

c919
February 27, 2010, 08:25 PM
Sorry you don't want to hear it...

That's right, I didn't want to hear it, that's why I told you in my OP to keep that to yourself. I'm well aware that a .44 or what-not would be a better choice for huge angry beasts, but I don't want one for this purpose. I'm not in grizzly country here, and I think a 10mm would be just fine for a hog or black bear.

blitzen
February 27, 2010, 08:45 PM
There is no reason on gods green earth that a 10mm auto will not suit you fine as a woods gun in Tennessee. I know a few people who carry them around in real bear country here in AK. If you like the platform, get it!

c919
February 27, 2010, 10:15 PM
^^^ My conclusion exactly. My current EDC/"it'll do for now" woods gun is my SP101 2 1/4" and I just want something different for my camping gun. Plus, I've been looking for a good excuse to get me a 10mm for a while now. :D

GJgo
February 28, 2010, 12:12 PM
I'd be wary of the Gold Dot loads. In my personal 10mm tests they don't penetrate anywhere near as well as the XTP loads- IMO the GD was designed for .40 velocities. My 180gr XTP load at 1350 FPS holds together & penetrates real deep.

The lead stuff is likely shot through an aftermarket barrel with standard rifling.

I think the 10mm is a fine woods sidearm for most of the lower 48. I carry mine for most of my woods hikes, and only reach for the .44 instead when I'm going into moose country.

P.S. if you don't reload I'll take your brass!!!! :D

Motownfire
February 28, 2010, 01:31 PM
I doubt you will have any issues with leading in the stock Glock barrel. I worried about this also when i started reloading for my G23 and G27. I use http://www.missouribullet.com/ 180's. I don't have any issues with leading in either of my stock barrels. I shoot 200-300 rounds per session and have yet to see any leading issues in my barrels.

NG VI
February 28, 2010, 02:36 PM
Using actual hardcast bullets and not soft lead bullets the stock barrel won't give you any trouble, just clean it very well after range sessions. And if you want to milk a little more speed out of the 20, there is a factory 6" barrel and a few companies making 6" barrels, seems like a good addition.

jmortimer
February 28, 2010, 03:28 PM
Then there is always reality
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/08/31/man-kills-charging-bear-with-454-casull/

NG VI
February 28, 2010, 03:50 PM
How many 900 pound bears is he likely to run across in Tennessee?

And besides, a hard cast 200 grain full power 10mm is quite a bit more gun than a 9mm or .40 pistol.

jmortimer
February 28, 2010, 04:20 PM
None - you're correct. As long as you stick with a hard cast bullet or the Buffalo Bore FMJ the 10mm would do just fine for most any bear in the south.

c919
February 28, 2010, 04:53 PM
^^^ Yeah, at best 400-500#'s. I've actually encountered black bears on two separate hikes in the past, and they didn't show any aggression. I think overall, they will just size you up and move on as long as you stay cool (of course, I'm sure there are others who aren't so nice).

My main concern is boar. They are all around this area and very aggressive. I have faith in the 10mm when it comes to 10mm vs boar.

roscoe
February 28, 2010, 06:47 PM
Aren't the Buffalo Bore and DoubleTap loads gas checked? That keeps the leading way down. Myself, I use the heavy hardcast in 10mm in the woods, but in a 1006.

-v-
February 28, 2010, 09:03 PM
+1 for either 200gr FMJ or Double-Tap's 230gr hard-cast flat nose. For the usual things you will run across in our back woods that is more than enough guns. Leave the silly "MUST CARRY HAND CANNON!!11" crowd and their rabbid zombie bears with a hunger for human flesh to themselves. They rarely have anything productive to say.

The 230gr hard-cast is my preferred choice around here. Plenty to put down a boar or 10, and enough to defend myself from an angry momma-bear. With the bears, as long as you don't mess with them, they don't really want to mess with you, which I am sure you know already.

I doubt the gas-check on a hard-cast will help with leading of the barrel, since its there to stave off gas-etching. You will still have lead-to-bore contact going on.

John Wayne
March 1, 2010, 12:33 AM
Sorry you don't want to hear it - A semi-auto pistol is not a good gun for the woods - even if we ignore the dirt and rough conditions, there are only a couple calibers that could even qualify in the first place.

DoubleTap's 200 gr. load for the 10mm Auto is 100 fps faster than their 200 gr. .357 Mag load. The 10mm can also shoot 230 gr. bullets, while the .357 tops out at 200 gr. .357 Mag does not begin to out-perform 10mm until you get into carbine-length barrels.

People are quick to recommend .454 and .460 revolvers...I doubt anyone who does so has actually carried one for an extended period of time. They probably haven't ever seen a bear either.

David E
March 1, 2010, 12:47 AM
A semi-auto pistol is not a good gun for the woods - even if we ignore the dirt and rough conditions,

Kinda hard to ignore dirt and rough conditions in the woods, ain't it ?

Semi autos, especially Glocks, handle rough treatment better than any revolver. Things happen. If you fall in the water or the gun somehow ends up in the muck, I'd rather have a Glock than a revolver in that case. I could clean the gun at right then, swishing out the muck in the creek. Shake it dry and reassemble. Can't do that with a revolver.

Gunfighter123
March 1, 2010, 12:59 AM
Sorry you don't want to hear it - A semi-auto pistol is not a good gun for the woods - even if we ignore the dirt and rough conditions,
------------- AND ----- ;
Why fight reality.



I guess we need to talk about WHO'S REALITY ???

Your statement that a semi-auto " is not a good gun for the woods - even if we ignore the dirt and rough conditions" ------ I wonder if anyone has told the WORLDS Military about this ---- last I looked , THEY ALL carried autos and NOT revolvers and they spend a great deal of time in "dirt and rough conditions" .

A point not brought up in this post is that if a bear , even a small bear , gets ahold of you , a auto is much easier to fire one handed. A DA revolver is also good IMHO , while a single action like a Ruger is really not ---- you have to manually use your thumb to cock for each shot , in that brief instant --- you are not "locked" down on the handgun and could lose the gun easier then if your thumb is "locked" while gripping a semi-auto or DA revolver.

jmortimer
March 1, 2010, 01:34 AM
I stand corrected - the glock can take dirt but the rifling is not the best for cast bullets. Reality was a 900 pound bear charge and I noted the O/P is in Tenn. so that is not an issue.

Gunfighter123
March 1, 2010, 01:45 AM
Hiya jmortimer,
good for you to come back to a post and state " I stand corrected" -- not many people will do such a thing , most will just not post on that thread anymore.
Good for you ----- GF123

heavyshooter
March 1, 2010, 03:22 AM
c919,

LOL!!! :D When you mentioned that you were not interested in hearing the arguments against the 10mm I went to get a bowl of popcorn. I saw this one coming. ;)

I believe the 10mm is good against hogs, cougars, and black bear (it is rather powerful, high capacity, and allows for quick reloads). And the Glock’s ability to endure dirt and grime is proven. I don't know why we keep overlooking the fact that Glocks are used in jungles and deserts all over the world (and that endorsement is coming from a Glock detractor). So if it works for you, get full power loads (crucial) that are 200 gr. or heavier fmj or hardcast (crucial) and run with it.

P.S. - While I do not agree with everyone who is trying to talk you out of your Glock, I must tell you that I choose a revolver for my trail gun. Not because of dirt or effectiveness of the round. It has been my experience that you may have to use your weapon in a manner that has your muzzle against the assailant. This is particularly true is you are attacked by a bear or cougar. Under those circumstances you may knock the weapon out of battery and render it ineffective for a moment. That moment may be crucial. --- Just my .02 ---

Having said that, I would much prefer you take your Glock with you if it keeps you from going empty handed. It is a fine choice.

Heavy

Man With A Gun
March 1, 2010, 03:38 AM
The 10mm is a bear killer BUT don't go hunting that kind of trouble.

Recently a Ranger in Alaska had a grizzly bear come at him and was forced to shoot it dead.....with a .40 S&W 160 grain HP load. Took a full mag to bring it down at close range but it worked.

The 40 S&W load, as you know, is the little sister of the 10mm.

The 10mm is a fine round for protection in Alaska BUT, here again, it is not a favored round for which one would set out to find and kill a grizzly.

Carry the 10mm with good loads and forget LEAD bullets. They are more trouble than they are worth UNLESS you intend to handload and plink with the 10mm...get an aftermarket barrel and a brush.

EMT40SW
March 1, 2010, 04:04 AM
What about Corbon's 180 gr jacketed soft pionts- 1300 ft2 and 676 lb of energy. That is what I would load that glock with.

NWCP
March 1, 2010, 04:37 AM
It's your money. Get whatever floats your boat. I would avoid the use of lead bullets in a polygonal barrel. If that's what you intend to shoot buy an aftermarket standard land and groove barrel for the woods. Enjoy!

berettashotgun
March 1, 2010, 10:32 AM
Getting a 10mm will change your wallet thickness - dramatically.
Like them, own one. Impulse ( somehow qualifies as an impulse? ) purchase after lusting for a 1006 for years.
Power to size is about unequaled in a pistol.
You would be hard pressed to come up with a more "rounded" tool for the task.
Actually a little overpowered IMHO.
I'd have no problem carrying a 9mm with FMJ.
Gotta' hit where you look.....

inutero1212
March 1, 2010, 11:03 AM
To start with I would call both Glock and your ammunition companies and talk it over with them regarding use of these loads in an unsupported chambered barrel. Perhaps a quality aftermarket barrel that has an supported chamber and traditional rifling might be the answer you are looking for. In addition, I have been reading some very positive reviews on RDS technology on auto's these days, might be worth it if you are concerned at all with reaching longer ranges with your handgun. A few I have know put the new trijicon sights on feel comfortable regularly hitting steel at 40 or so meters with their glocks where before 20-25 was all they felt comfortable with. I agree with you though, 10mm should be sufficient for your needs. with slight modification you may be able to get everything you want out of the gun. I would start by picking up the phone and calling. Hope it works out for you!

John Wayne
March 1, 2010, 12:44 PM
If you're worried about shooting lead, get an aftermarket barrel for $100. If you're going to do that, you can start with the G21 and then you'd have the option of .45 or 10mm.

The G20 has a lot to recommend it as a woods gun -- simple, reliable, powerful, and lightweight. More powerful and controllable than a .357 Mag of the same size, and holds 15 rounds to boot. There are other 10mm auto pistols out there, but none are quite as light or robust as the G20.

easyg
March 1, 2010, 02:36 PM
10mm is just fine for TN.
Heck, even a .40 would probably be enough.

But I would get an after market barrel if you want to shoot reloads or bare lead.


Good luck,
Easy

Mainsail
March 1, 2010, 06:35 PM
I owned a Ruger Alaskan in 44 Mag and I loved it. Nevertheless, I sold it and bought a G20SF for exactly the same reasons you mention. I found myself leaving the Alaskan home on hikes where I needed to trim extra ounces. You'll get all sorts of free advice on this issue, and it's worth every penny in most cases. In the end though, you have to make the decision.

The word “hike” means different things to different people (and I know you didn’t use it, but just mentioned a woods gun). To some people a hike is a couple hundred yards over relatively even terrain, to others that description would be insulting. Here in Washington, I consider anything under five miles and 1000’ of elevation gain/loss to be a stroll or a meandering. For that one could carry a shotgun or rifle. But when you start packing up your backpack for a six mile overnight trip with big elevation gains and losses, you quickly start unpacking the extras. After all, you still have to hike those same six miles (or more) back out.

I feel completely confident with my G20SF and one magazine against anything the Olympic or Cascade ranges could throw at me. I carry DoubleTap 200gr hardcast loads that you mention. My G20 has a LoneWolf barrel and a 3# connector, (which is not a 3# trigger BTW), and Trijicon night sights.

The gun you carry is far more important than the one you left home to shave weight.

As to your question specifically, I doubt you’ll be practicing with several hundred rounds of lead hardcast ($!) so you should be just fine using them. The barrel isn’t going to lead up after one or two mags, and you’ll never shoot more than that in a self defense situation. So practice with FMJs, plus a magazine full of hardcast for the feel and zeroing, and carry the hardcasts when you’re out. If you’re worried, drop the >$150 for an aftermarket barrel. (I might have gone with the 6” barrel if it would fit in the Bianchi holster I like to use.)

I’m also curious about the recoil spring and whether I should go with a few pounds heavier.

http://img.geocaching.com/user/9b903579-2a6e-42da-a8aa-5b8d0f6f5577.jpg

eldon519
March 1, 2010, 09:02 PM
I'm a hiker as well, afflicted with attention to gear weight. I am not about to claim that a 10mm is not adequate for your purposes, but I think you'll find a fully loaded G20 is quite heavy (Glock figures around 39oz, probably heavier with 200gr loads), though you're by no means obligated to load it up with 15 rounds. Should your reasoning have been based on weight interest rather than just what you liked, I just wanted to bring to your attention that there are revolvers out there that would save you some weight when loaded, even in .44 magnum. A good example is the S&W 4" 329PD, though it'll cost significantly more and wouldn't be as enjoyable to shoot with full power loads.

Anyway, certainly nothing wrong with your choice. Hope that didn't violate your opening caveat too offensively.

NMGonzo
March 1, 2010, 09:04 PM
You shoot well with it?

Bring it!

KBintheSLC
March 2, 2010, 12:07 AM
Sorry you don't want to hear it - A semi-auto pistol is not a good gun for the woods - even if we ignore the dirt and rough conditions, there are only a couple calibers that could even qualify in the first place.

Man... only made it to post 3. I guess to each their own. I have used the G20 for several years now for a backpacking gun. Been all through the Rockies, Uintas, Sierras, and of course the deserts of the west. Its been wet, dirty, muddy, snowy, and freezing and it has shown no signs of problems. I assure you, there are few beasts on this continent that cannot be taken with full-house 10mm loads. Not to mention that it is easier to hump up the mtn at half the weight and nearly 3x the capacity of a big revolver.

As for the OP's inquiry, I just use the 200g FMJ-FP from DoubleTap, intermingled with the 200g XTP loads. I am guessing that the hard cast stuff won't cause a problem if you just use 1-10 rounds for self defense, but I have never tried it. Here are some tests of those two loads for your enjoyment...

http://brasstard.com/?cat=40

Then there is always reality
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...th-454-casull/

I don't recall the OP mentioning anything about fishing trips in Alaska. If he did, we'd all say ditch the pistol and bring a long gun. For what the OP is planning on doing, the .454 is beyond overkill. Check out this post from "revolvers" http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=508236 about a charging griz being taken with a .38 spl. Shocking.


...

Confederate
March 2, 2010, 01:04 AM
Although I agree a revolver would be the best way to go in the wilds, I have no problem with a good penetrating 10mm round.

Going against bear, for example, one might think that fast repeat shots would be beneficial and perhaps they'd be right; however, one should shoot for the nose or the mouth to end the fight. This puts the bullet(s) in the brain (nose) or severing the spine (mouth). Putting your shots anywhere else can be ineffective.

The 10mm clearly has the power to deal with an aggressive black bear. Occasionally, one may also encounter (increasingly) packs of feral dogs. An auto would certainly have an advantage there. A good grade of pepper spray (like Cold Steel's Inferno (http://www.coldsteel.com/pepper-spray.html)) also works well in the woods and in camping.

Revolvers also have the benefit of being able to shoot at greater distances than autos, but again, the 10mm has sufficient power to be a good companion while camping or hiking.

.

Siderite
March 2, 2010, 11:35 AM
To get back to the original poster's question of the DoubleTap hardcase lead through the stock Glock 20 polygonal-rifling barrel, I emailed DoubleTap last year with the same question and here is the reply I got:


Yes, they are perfectly safe to fire in your stock Glock.
Mike McNett
President
DoubleTap Ammunition
1-866-357-10mm


> Can the hardcast lead WFNGC be safely fired through the polygonal glock barrel or
> is necessary (or preferred) to have an aftermarket barrel with standard rifling?


Further reading seems to indicate that the use of the copper gas-check prevents much of the lead erosion at the base of the bullet, reducing the lead build up in the barrel.

Chas.
March 3, 2010, 10:36 PM
Folks are right that we don't have any 900 lb bears here, but we do have a few Bubba's that'll go 900.:D

c919
March 3, 2010, 11:28 PM
^^^ That's for sure. :D

...but as long as they're not running moonshine on 4 wheelers, they aren't known to be aggressive without provocation.

thirdeagle
March 12, 2010, 11:48 PM
I spent 18 yrs in WNC, 7 years in ETN followed, 2 yrs in NGA and now I'm in western MT. My two woods gun are a SW Model 19 and a 3rd gen Glock 20; 99% of the time I carry the G20. I've heard all same crap the 10mm naysayers throw around but it boils down to this:

My G20 has functioned under some of the worst conditions imaginable - sand, dirt, leaf debris, copious amounts of rain and snow, and blood and guts. I handle my G20 better than most of my buddies handle their heavy hitters and I'm not a big fella. I have a 16 rnd capacity of some of Double Tap's best. We have bears, big cats and increasingly more interactions with wolves (don't get me started here). I don't feel the least bit under gunned. My biggest concern is and always has been two legged predators for which the 10mm is more than sufficient. An after market barrel and a Serpa retention holster have turned my G20 into one of the best all-around firearms (and woods guns) I have ever owned.

Nick5182
March 12, 2010, 11:53 PM
For woods carry, a G20 would be fine, especially if you bought the real HAMMERS (buffalo bore, double tap, etc.) Plus you'll get 15 rounds per mag (assuming you live in a non restrictive state). If the polygonal rifling is a problem, you can get a replacement barrel from lone wolf for about 100 bucks, and if you can afford 10mm ammo, you can afford the barrel swap.

ECVMatt
March 13, 2010, 12:33 AM
I carry my Glock 20 all over the woods and deserts of CA. I also take it to TX hog hunting and have shot a few with it. We usually catch with dogs and then stick the hogs, so the ones I have shot have been a very close range. The 10 works great for this. I use Dbl. Tap 200 HP and the just hammer the hogs. The biggest one I have shot was about 200 lbs, so not overly large, but just fell over dead. I also took this gun on a 12 moose hunt to AK. I was surprised to find 10mm stocked at Aniak, a small village north east of Anchorage. The owner stated that lots of pilots fly with a 20 and I did see several carrying 20's in a nice chest rig made in Anchorage. I have good faith in the 20. It has endured desert sand storms, crossed the Red River, and froze every night in AK. You can completely take it a part with an old rusty nail, clean it in whatever water is near, put it back together, and it will still work. I would say you are making a good choice.

surfinUSA
March 13, 2010, 04:12 PM
I have a G20 and think its one of the finest woods guns made. Its practically impervious to the weather etc. Its reliable and powerful and relatively light. I also have a 44 mag but the G20 gets out more often. As a side note, if it can't be done wih a 44 mag I'm using a rifle.

As far as the S&W 460 or 500 goes, they are so big and heavy, even compared to a 8 3/8 INCH 44 MAG MODEL 29 I would rather carry a long gun.

For 10mm ammo I usually use Winchester 175gn silvertips.

357SIG
March 13, 2010, 09:03 PM
If you're uneasy about the lead rounds, try the "controlled expansion" of the DT line. I have 200 grainers, and they're Hornady XTP bullets. I know it's debatable, but the box says 1250 out of a G20. If it's even close to that...

I carry them in the woods.

m2steven
March 13, 2010, 09:30 PM
Hickock45 just posted a video on youtube showing how the standard glock 10mm barrel reacted to Double-Tap or Buffalo Bore (one of the heavy loaded ammos) and the stock barrel was super inaccurate even at short distance. He replaced the glock barrel with a lone wolf replacement and it was a tack driver.

The slug would tumble with the glock barrel due to the odd rifling. Plus, the bullets were not completely copper coated, just the sides, not the tips. He has not noted any leading of the glock barrel though.

hogshead
March 13, 2010, 09:55 PM
Next one that bad mouths the g20 must report to Ted Nugents office.Trying to remember where I read about him shooting a cape buffalo[already deceased] In the spine and crushing the vertabrae. Just in case you run into any buffalo.

panther22
March 13, 2010, 10:00 PM
I've been looking at a polymer Witness pistol in 10mm,with some of the same use in mind. It seems as light as the Glock, but has a rifled barrel. I haven't read any reviews about the 10mm version, but people seem to like the others.

hogshead
March 13, 2010, 10:24 PM
I have a buddy who bought the witness first shot the white dot in the rear sight blew out. Shot 3 more clips with ajam every time. Granted it was a brand new gun.I told him they were made by jennings and called my other friend at the gun store and got him in on it .You shoulda seen my friends face when he told them jennings made them. He sent the gun back and they attempted to fix it.It never was reliable and he sold it for a big loss. Bear in mind that is my experience with the witness.Results may vary. Never had any problems with my g20 except finding the brass.

kgpcr
March 13, 2010, 10:30 PM
You are in TN! A 10mm glock is a great choice! Black Bear are about all you may encounter. When i am in AK on the rivers its my .454 but when i am in MN i carry a .40 and am very comfortable with it.

Airman193SOS
March 13, 2010, 11:08 PM
I have a buddy who bought the witness first shot the white dot in the rear sight blew out. Shot 3 more clips with ajam every time. Granted it was a brand new gun.I told him they were made by jennings and called my other friend at the gun store and got him in on it .You shoulda seen my friends face when he told them jennings made them. He sent the gun back and they attempted to fix it.It never was reliable and he sold it for a big loss. Bear in mind that is my experience with the witness.Results may vary. Never had any problems with my g20 except finding the brass.

I'd imagine he would be surprised, given that Jennings does NOT make the Witness. It's made by Tanfoglio and imported by European American Armory.

That's some good disinformation you gave him. Did you get it cheap?

Gunfighter123
March 13, 2010, 11:59 PM
Hiya hogshead ---- saying a EAA Tangfoglio Witness is a made "jennings" is like me saying that North Carolinians was made by "yankees":what:

saturno_v
March 14, 2010, 12:37 AM
I've been looking at a polymer Witness pistol in 10mm,with some of the same use in mind.

I do not know about the polymer version but the new steel EAA Witness (with the rounded slide top style) cannot take the beating of a full power 10mm cartridge (Double Tap, Buffalo Bore, etc..) without cracking the slide so, IMHO, it is not good for wood use.

bubbaturbo
March 14, 2010, 07:14 AM
Airman193SOS said: I'd imagine he would be surprised, given that Jennings does NOT make the Witness. It's made by Tanfoglio and imported by European American Armory.

That's some good disinformation you gave him. Did you get it cheap?



It sounds as if they were just pulling his leg because of this:I told him they were made by jennings and called my other friend at the gun store and got him in on it .

salvo
March 14, 2010, 05:06 PM
c919, have fun with your G20!
I must admit I have more revolvers than auto's but the G20 is one of my favorites and I have complete faith in the gun and round for a general desert/woods gun here out West.
I reload and have settled on Laser Cast 200 gr. and XTP 200 gr. I bought a 6" Jarvis barrel for the lead bullets, but am seriously thinking about shortening it to stock length, it's a bit long and un-handy.
I have installed 22lbs. ISMI recoil spring on captured ISMI guide rod for the heavier loads and have found it also works fine with anemic 180 gr. range ammo by Remington.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/SeaOx/Glock20/IMG_5613.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/SeaOx/Glock20/IMG_5600.jpg

roscoe
March 14, 2010, 06:54 PM
EAA is reported to have the worst customer service in the business and, although Tanfoglio pistols are pretty good, the 10mm Witness beats itself up enough that they have a reputation for cracking clides. Too bad - I am a CZ fan (Tanfoglios are CZ clones), but I guess there is a reason CZ has not yet come out with their own.

panther22
March 14, 2010, 07:35 PM
Thanks for the heads up on the Witness.

hoser45
March 18, 2010, 02:10 AM
Would any of you consider a 1911 platform 10mm for woods carry or would it be "possibly" too sensitive to dirt and mud? I have small hands and large revolvers and G20's are just tough to handle and tougher to conceal and carry (yes, I know you can open carry in the woods, but in CA, it's not worth the stares and would rather do it as a ccw gun).

This is in black bear country only.

Mainsail
March 18, 2010, 09:04 AM
If you already own one I don't see any drama about carrying it, other than the weight. A good holster will keep the dirt off the gun, and really, if you're going to roll in the mud- any gun will get dirty. The 1911 was good enough for the US Army for many years and they got them much dirtier than you ever will.

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