Saiga.308-ver.21, pics & more pics.


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ChileRelleno
February 27, 2010, 07:54 PM
Just brought'er home today, no chance to shoot'er, had the entire family in tow.
Not wrangling three kids and the wife at the range :uhoh:
Full after action range report very likely next weekend.

The only thing I can say so far, is that the FCG/trigger is better than a standard sporter.
But, I will almost certainly replace it with one from Dinzag.

Pics are worth a thousand words.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s190/ChileRelleno/100_7753.jpg
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s190/ChileRelleno/100_7754.jpg
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s190/ChileRelleno/100_7743.jpg
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s190/ChileRelleno/100_7733.jpg
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s190/ChileRelleno/100_7756.jpg
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s190/ChileRelleno/100_7750.jpg
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s190/ChileRelleno/100_7729.jpg
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s190/ChileRelleno/100_7731.jpg
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s190/ChileRelleno/100_7737.jpg
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s190/ChileRelleno/100_7738.jpg

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Warhawk83
February 27, 2010, 08:03 PM
Beautiful gun.

Shear_stress
February 27, 2010, 08:13 PM
Nice Vepr--er, Saiga. Man, I wished they imported more of the thumbhole-stocked sporters.

The_Hammer_Man
February 27, 2010, 08:31 PM
What did that set you back? And +1 to the import wish made by Shear stress.

ChileRelleno
February 27, 2010, 08:40 PM
$636.52 for rifle, S/H & FFL transfer fee, put it in my hands.
............................................

Now all I need is,
1) 40 rnds each of many various surplus/match grade munitions, to see what flavors she prefers.
2) Dinzag's reworked G2 FCG
3) POSP 3-9x42 1200 m - Sniper Rifle Scope with reticle illumination Range Finder http://www.eastwave.ca/products/scopes/posp3-9x42.html
4) A few more mags, 2, 8, 10 20 & 25 rounders, few of each will suffice.

And lastly...

5) A full day at the range with all of the above.

Ughh
February 27, 2010, 09:05 PM
Very nice stock :)

HOLY DIVER
February 27, 2010, 09:38 PM
that's a good looking rifle i'm looking foward to your range report

elmerfudd
February 27, 2010, 10:47 PM
3) POSP 3-9x42 1200 m - Sniper Rifle Scope with reticle illumination Range Finder http://www.eastwave.ca/products/scopes/posp3-9x42.html

I love the Saiga rifles, but I'd avoid that particular scope. I've owned them before and I find it to be the least functional of all the eastern bloc scopes.

Here's what's wrong with it. The elevation varies according to the magnification. So at 3x it's supposed to be sighted in at 300m. 5x=500m, 9x=900m, etc... The scope actually tilts to compensate. The problem is, most of us do almost all of our shooting at 300m or less and our chances to shoot at 900m are almost nil, so either you get used to shooting it at 3x almost all the time, or you sight it in at a higher power and just leave it there, (cause when you zoom in or out your elevation will change radically).

Now if that were the whole of it, it might still be a worthwhile product, but it's not. It's got a first focal plane reticle and at 3x the reticle is really tiny while at 9x it's huge. So for those quick shots at 300m or less you have to use this tiny reticle that's hard to see.

Save your money and buy a fixed 8x scope or a good rail mount instead like the BP-02. That's what I eventually did anyway, but my wallet was a couple hundred dollars lighter.

ChileRelleno
February 27, 2010, 10:59 PM
I love the Saiga rifles, but I'd avoid that particular scope. I've owned them before and I find it to be the least functional of all the eastern bloc scopes.

Here's what's wrong with it. The elevation varies according to the magnification. So at 3x it's supposed to be sighted in at 300m. 5x=500m, 9x=900m, etc... The scope actually tilts to compensate. The problem is, most of us do almost all of our shooting at 300m or less and our chances to shoot at 900m are almost nil, so either you get used to shooting it at 3x almost all the time, or you sight it in at a higher power and just leave it there, (cause when you zoom in or out your elevation will change radically).

Now if that were the whole of it, it might still be a worthwhile product, but it's not. It's got a first focal plane reticle and at 3x the reticle is really tiny while at 9x it's huge. So for those quick shots at 300m or less you have to use this tiny reticle that's hard to see.

Save your money and buy a fixed 8x scope or a good rail mount instead like the BP-02. That's what I eventually did anyway, but my wallet was a couple hundred dollars lighter.Thank you for your input.
I will definitely have to research that scope's shortcomings better.
Probably go back to my original plan of a Leupold Rifleman 4-12x40mm.

ChileRelleno
February 27, 2010, 11:57 PM
In another forum/thread, somebody asked what the trigger was like.
Well I've been sitting here dry firing a snap cap and I'd say it's, way way better than the horrible linkage on the regular sporter import.
Standard two stage, about a 1/4" of slack, the tiniest bit of creep & then it breaks crisply with no perceptible overtravel.
If I had to guess'timate the pull weight, I'd say 3lbs.
It should do quite well, but I'll still likely put Dinzag's reworked G2 FCG into it.

elmerfudd
February 28, 2010, 02:54 AM
Thank you for your input.
I will definitely have to research that scope's shortcomings better.
Probably go back to my original plan of a Leupold Rifleman 4-12x40mm.

Do look into it some more, but don't take what I wrote earlier as gospel. Everything I wrote there is true, except the scope I was writing it about was the 1P21, which is also a 3-9x42 Russian scope and I think the precursor to the one you linked to.

This is it here;
http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/detail.aspx?ID=94

The one you linked to might have corrected the deficiencies. If so then it might be a nice scope. Still, look into it. It sucks to spend $250 and then find out what you bought is next to useless. This I know.

I actually hadn't intended to post my earlier comment. I wrote the whole thing and then realized I was writing about a slightly different model. I must have had one too many as I intended on just going back to the main forum without posting it.

memphisjim
February 28, 2010, 03:03 AM
get on saiga12.com and look up csspec he makes 20 round steel magazines for these

ChileRelleno
February 28, 2010, 03:12 AM
No... Really?... No way, some guy makes metal mags??? :uhoh:































Dude, I'm f'ing with ya, I'm a regular at S12.com, this isn't my first Saiga.
And I'm well aware of csspec's mags, thanks anyways ;)

ChileRelleno
February 28, 2010, 03:20 AM
Do look into it some more, but don't take what I wrote earlier as gospel. Everything I wrote there is true, except the scope I was writing it about was the 1P21, which is also a 3-9x42 Russian scope and I think the precursor to the one you linked to.

This is it here;
http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/detail.aspx?ID=94

The one you linked to might have corrected the deficiencies. If so then it might be a nice scope. Still, look into it. It sucks to spend $250 and then find out what you bought is next to useless. This I know.

I actually hadn't intended to post my earlier comment. I wrote the whole thing and then realized I was writing about a slightly different model. I must have had one too many as I intended on just going back to the main forum without posting it.Never be afraid to speak up, ya never know when you may help someone.
I never take anything anyone post on these internetz as gospel, hence my statement to research it.

And yes, they are two different 3-9x42 sights.
May be different, but they may share certain mechanical attributes.

The Leupold was my first choice, then I was convinced that I should keep it Russian (Soviet), I really may just fall back on it.

ChileRelleno
April 10, 2010, 11:25 PM
Finally got to the range today! :grin:

Devirginized my new lady, rode'er hard and put'er up wet.

Saiga.308-v.21

Winchester Super X 150gr & 180gr Power Point
Remington 150gr Cor-Lokt

Targets at 25, 50 & 100 yards
Crosswinds gusty and squirrely at approx 15-25mph

Also shot steel silhouettes at 100 & 200 yards.
100 yards was cake, pinging steel 99%, shooting standing unsupported.
200 yards standing unsupported was 50%, bags on bench was 90%.

This was my first time with this rifle, virgin territory, I'm impressed and excited.
25 & 50 yards yielded excellent groups, 100 yards opened up significantly.
At 100 I had trouble with the front sight pin covering the 8" Shoot-n-C targets I was using.
I feel really confident that once scoped she will shoot 1MOA at 100.

Look forward to running some MilSurp & Match grade through'er, such a small a selection as today wasn't enough to really see what flavors she likes best.

25 yards
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s190/ChileRelleno/25yards.jpg

50 yards
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s190/ChileRelleno/50yards.jpg

100 yards
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s190/ChileRelleno/100yards.jpg

DIM
April 11, 2010, 09:10 AM
Is that like 9 MOA at 100 yards? Check your scope mount it probably loose, I had Saiga 308 it had tighter pattern on 200 yards with original everything... at least I had no problem hitting coke can on 200 yards

chains1240
April 11, 2010, 10:05 AM
I don't know anything about those rifles, but my wife was wondering why I was looking at the computer screen with love in my eyes. Beautiful rifle. I want I want I want.

ChileRelleno
April 11, 2010, 10:52 AM
Is that like 9 MOA at 100 yards? Check your scope mount it probably loose, I had Saiga 308 it had tighter pattern on 200 yards with original everything... at least I had no problem hitting coke can on 200 yards
Its a 8" target, that was iron sights, it is not scoped.

Your eyes are better than mine if you can clearly see and consistently hit a Coke can (3MOA target) at 200 yards with iron sights.

nathan
April 11, 2010, 10:57 AM
That is one thick barrel. Really nice !

DIM
April 11, 2010, 12:44 PM
For iron sights this is not bad! Did you use sand bags or gun rest? Coke can with iron sights I think not :rolleyes: I used 3 - 9x scope, it shot 2.5 MOA at 100 yards so the coke can was within its reach. I wanted to change furniture on my Saiga to wood with thumbhole stock just like yours, at the end I sold it for one reason: it was denting brass on the eject, since I reload I couldn't tolerate such behavior.

doubs43
April 11, 2010, 02:01 PM
I have a Romanian PSL-54 "Sniper" rifle in 7.62x54R that came with a 4x scope. I replaced it with an 8x. Both have lighted reticles.

IMO, you'd be better off with a fixed power scope in the 6x-8x range.

Kalinka Optics offers many scopes to fit your rifle but I have no idea about the company as I've never dealt with them. The POSP scope has an illuminated reticle and uses two common 357 batteries to power it. There is an on-off switch. (My version of the 8x is an earlier model and uses a single "AA" battery to illuminate the reticle.)

Here is a link to a 6x scope they offer and you can browse their site for other scopes, including the 8x.

Link: http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/rifle-scopes/posp/ak-vepr-saiga-slr/posp-6x42-w-black-finish-1000-meter-rangefinder-rifle-scope-ak-version.html

ChileRelleno
August 11, 2010, 06:39 PM
Today, Mr Brown brought me Vortex Viper 2-7x32mm scope, Burris 1" Xtreme Tactical High rings and a TWS Dog Leg Rail, all of which went onto my Saiga.308-ver.21.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s190/ChileRelleno/vortex1-1.jpg
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s190/ChileRelleno/vortex2.jpg
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s190/ChileRelleno/vortex3.jpg

wally
August 11, 2010, 09:48 PM
Let us know how the return to zero is on the Texas Weapon Systems mount after you've had the top cover off. I'm thinking of the same setup.

ChileRelleno
August 11, 2010, 09:59 PM
Let us know how the return to zero is on the Texas Weapon Systems mount after you've had the top cover off. I'm thinking of the same setup.
I talked to just about everyone at Saiga12.com who've been using it on various caliber AK platforms, not one complaint about return to zero.


And you know how people like to complain.
.........................................................

I've no problem complaining so if I do, you'll know. :cuss:

rangerruck
August 12, 2010, 11:40 AM
I have 2 saiga's with the dogleg rail; would not ever let them go!!
So snug, so tight, yet so easy to lift up , and get out of the way.
Excellent pickup on the scope as well. The only version of that rifle I like
better-- I once saw one, with a 16 inch bbl, and a hogsback stock. No
thumbhole, but still a super good rifle. I personally think the fcg's on these
rifles are pretty good; just try and smooove the surfaces up a bit.

ChileRelleno
September 5, 2010, 01:28 AM
Well lemme update this thread...

Mid August I Scoped it with a 'Vortex Viper' 2-7x32, mounted on a TWS Dog Leg rail. ( See pics above.)
Today I took it out and zeroed the scope at 100 yards using 'Tula' 150grn FMJ.
Once I had it on paper, I started banging away with results averaging what you see below.
Shooting from the bench in my usual style, i.e. just as fast as I can get the crosshairs back on target and pull the trigger.

The cheap Russian Tula brand ammo, with it's steel polymer casing, proved itself, in my opinion, to be every bit as accurate as any commercial hunting ammo I've ever shot.



http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s190/ChileRelleno/563935169_1999427686_0.jpg

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s190/ChileRelleno/563934953_1999426913_0.jpg

I wonder how it'll do when I recrown it with a 11' target crown, mount a comp and feed it some Federal GMM & Hornady AMAX? ;)

rangerruck
September 6, 2010, 12:51 AM
hmm, nicely done. I am wondering what made you come up with 11' for the crown? i know that is a fave amongst the rimfire boyz, and usually stepped down first...

ChileRelleno
September 6, 2010, 01:02 AM
I plan on using tools rented from Dinzagarms, he offers crowning tools setup appropriately for various calibers, and his are all 11'.
http://dinzagarms.com/tools/crown.html
He also offers various other tool rentals/parts for modifying Saigas/etc.

jeepguy
September 6, 2010, 01:18 AM
those wood saiga's look so much better then the regular ones. i dont know why they dont import more of them in. i think they would sell, a good shooting 308 autoloader for less then $600.

EdLaver
September 6, 2010, 01:30 AM
Would you happen to know if that TWS rail will fit and function on the PSL?

LHRGunslinger
September 6, 2010, 01:58 AM
I must ask you to cease and desist posting any more pictures of your Saiga due to the fact that I have had to change my shirt three times because of drool.

shevrock
September 6, 2010, 03:36 AM
That is one of the most beautiful saiga's I've ever seen. :)

rangerruck
September 7, 2010, 01:36 PM
the dogleg rail will fit ANY ak design, as long as it has the rear tang/screwhole for the buttstock. generally, this throws out all sidefolders.

eastbank
September 7, 2010, 04:04 PM
i have been shooting my vepr out out to 500 yds with care full reloads and a 1-4 redfield scope, its no target rifle but with human full figuer targets, they all have bullet holes in them when i,m done shooting from a rest. i,m going to put a scope with target turrets on it with a little more power. eastbank.

Col. Plink
September 7, 2010, 05:23 PM
They are quite fetching; I have one too and a guy at the range commented on its "curb appeal" :) With all the AK mounts available you can scope 'em 8 ways from Sunday...

gunnie
September 7, 2010, 05:47 PM
ChileRelleno,

in your jpg of the muzzle, page 1, it looks very much like a chromed bore. may just be the lighting, but if it is DON'T let the 11 degree counter sink contact the chrome.

for hunting, magnification really non issue. whatever one prefers, except close cover usage.

but for serious social work, i vote with "eastbank". 4x more than enough for standing targets too 400 yds. even with very thick duplex reticle, which i prefer for poor light use. close as possible to a true 1x on the bottom allows for stereo target acquisition. MUCH faster if one finds CQB forced upon them.

<$0.02

gunnie

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