The "average" gun owner...


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XDemon(m)
February 27, 2010, 10:13 PM
Hi Guys,

Long time lurker, first time poster. Let's see how this goes...

I had ad odd experience at the range that made me wonder about the other gun owners out there in the world. You see, I have only been shooting about 9 months. I took several courses from a local firearms instruction company, loved it, applied for and got my license to carry concealed (passed the shooting test with no problems) and have probably shot about 2000-2500 rounds since getting the license.

In my mind, I'm a newbie, and not very good. I don't worry about groups. I typically stand at 7 yards and while I keep all my shots on the paper, and in the rough general area of where I want to hit on the paper man (headshots are somewhere on the head, etc...), I am definitely not drilling the center every time.

So, today, this guy looks at the paper man as I'm rolling him up to take him home, and says that I'm a really good shot. I sorta looked at him and said thanks, and went on my way. But it got me thinking...

Just how bad a shot is he, that I'm "good"?

Which leads me to my question for the group:

How good/bad a shot is the average gun owner?

I hear people online talking about 1 inch groups and this and that, but out there in the world around us, how good or bad is the average guy who owns and maybe carries a pistol?

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woodsoup
February 27, 2010, 10:20 PM
Free standing slow fire I can get them all into an 8" paper plate at 10 yards. On the bench I can get 2" groups at the same distance. This is with a S&W 65 DAO police turn in from J&G sales. We won't discuss my attempts at 6 shots in 10 seconds into the same target.

David E
February 27, 2010, 10:22 PM
I posed this same question earlier.

Of course, everyone on this forum is above average.....

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=500898

JoeShmoe
February 27, 2010, 10:40 PM
The key is that you got professional instruction. Many shooters don't do this. You learned proper technique from the beginning without picking up bad habits.

NMGonzo
February 27, 2010, 10:44 PM
I can teach you to flinch in no time!!

gwnorth
February 27, 2010, 10:52 PM
I'd bet not very good. I say that just because there's statistically what, something like 80 million gun owners (or whatever, someone can please correct me if I'm way out). And it sure seems like a great majority of them seem to buy a gun, take it home, load it, stick it in a drawer somewhere and rarely ever look at it again, let alone shoot it. I certainly know some gun owners who fall in that category, or at least only very rarely shoot (not enough to really improve their skills).

Just saying that there are a lot of gun owners, but much fewer gun enthusiasts and regular shooters.

Myself, I'm okay out to about 15 yards, but beyond that things get bad pretty quickly (progressive lenses can only do so much). And it depends a lot on the caliber I'm shooting and the particular gun. I'm actually best with an all steel .45acp 1911 or my SIG P226 9mm, or a 4" Ruger Service Six with .38spl (with .357's, my consistency leaves a bit to be desired).

Arkansas Paul
February 27, 2010, 11:05 PM
I get by pretty well with a rifle and have been known to shoot skeet pretty well, but I'll be the first to admit, I'm not very good with the pistolas. I'm not sure what average is, but I'd wager I'm below it. I contribute this to the fact that I've had less trigger time with handguns. I'm about to be practicing a lot more though, because I want to kill a deer with a pistol. I've got a lot of improving to do between now and November.

content
February 27, 2010, 11:25 PM
Hello friends and neighbors // There is no exact anwser.

It depends on the pond and the fish so to speak.
Average for all gun owners from the twice a year shooter to someone fine tuning themselves to a certain firearm .....

I'm 47, been shooting since I was 10. I have friends that shoot my own firearms better than I do. Yet compared to everyone I " know "who owns a firearm I consider myself above average with handguns and shotguns but below average with rifles.
I've seen some folks do amazing things with rifles.

I have no way to compare myself to every gun owner. Thus the pond and the fish.

I would say that most folks participating on this site have above average firearms knowledge. That knowledge should transfer to their shooting skills, making them above average shooters also.

From what you describe I'd say you are a good shooter. If you are using a handgun with an under 4" barrel I'd say very good. At least compared to the fish in my pond.;)

CornCod
February 27, 2010, 11:27 PM
The truly average gun owner has grandad's old Model 10 Smith & Wesson in his night table drawer and hasn't shot it in 15 years. Even 15 years ago, he just shot it on a lark. There is a big distinction between gun owners and shooters. Keep on shooting!

SaxonPig
February 27, 2010, 11:30 PM
Most folks don't shoot enough to get really good. I know I don't. Plus, my 55 year old eyes simply don't work as well as they did when they and I were younger. I can't clearly see the bullseye on a 25 yard target.

With any sort of a decent gun I can probably deliver a 4-5" group at 50 feet. That's shooting from standing with a two-handed hold. Once in a great while the sun and the moon and the stars align and the force is with me as seen in the 25 yard target seen below fired from a 6" Python (a notoriously accurate revolver) using full-power Magnum ammo.


http://www.fototime.com/AB7CECF844113D3/standard.jpg


I have a Ruger Mk I target 22 pistol made in 1966 that is crazy accurate. I can shoot 2-3" groups with it and I can only imagine what a really competent shooter could do with it. It has the best trigger I have ever felt on any handgun and that seems to be the single biggest factor in printing small groups.


http://www.fototime.com/FFB1A8CA2E380C9/standard.jpg


Now that I think about it, my S&W 25-2 seems to want to shoot really well, too. I've only tried it once but I was impressed by how well it grouped. Better than average for me. Might be the weight and long barrel just want to hold steady. Great trigger helps, too.


http://www.fototime.com/7BC131D31471041/standard.jpg

Albatross
February 27, 2010, 11:56 PM
I have had the opportunity to hang out with gun owners of both types.

I shoot rifle and pistol competitions and have witnessed the shooting skills of people who semi-annually attending expensive shooting schools or are shooting instructors for large city police departments and who regularly practice shooting (some more than 20k rounds a year). These people are rare. At the rifle competition I shoot at often 70ish people show up, I'd say less than 10 could be described as above. The majority of the rest are also pretty good, but many who regularly attend have trouble consistently hitting man sized steel at 200 yards (likely due to not knowing the method of "firing a shot). It isn't uncommon for people to fail to complete a stage (usually occurs once or twice a match).

I also attend college and every year a student group hosts a second amendment day and some 40 (weather depending) college students bring out their guns and shoot them at washing machines and the walls of the rock quarry. I've witnessed it 3 times now (I am graduating in the spring w/ BS in Biology), it didn't happen my senior year because when they all went to the local sports store to buy ammo they were surprised to find that it had been sold out of popular ammo for months.

I also have a number of pals/acquaintances with large collections of guns, many of which they never shoot. Typically they go out once or twice a year with a few hundred rounds, aren't surprised/upset when they forget to bring targets and happily shoot at some nearby trees and dirt banks.

Just today, I spent my morning with a couple of such gun owning specimens. One owned 5-6 firearms. He was honestly surprised that there was no .45 ammo locally available (population here 150k). He owns two .45 caliber guns (1911 and glock) that he cannot currently feed.

Anyway, based upon my experience I am pretty sure that the vast majority of gun owners are terrible shots, with at best, only a vague notion of how to line up the sights and make hits.

jad0110
February 28, 2010, 12:09 AM
The truly average gun owner has grandad's old Model 10 Smith & Wesson in his night table drawer and hasn't shot it in 15 years.

More often than not from my observations, it is an RG-10 22 short in place of the Model 10.

Oscar 14
February 28, 2010, 12:12 AM
+1 on what Content said. I freely admit to being an awsome (imho) rifle and pistol shot, but, I suck with a scattergun.(pheasants love me) My buddy never misses a bird or a deer but when he shoots one of my handguns, (and it doesn't seem to matter if it's a revolver or an auto) he might as well be throwing a handfull of gravel. I've tried to help him as much as I'm able but he no longer wants to try. Some people are adept at some things and lousy at others. That being said. Practice Practice Practice. I think if I put in the time I'd get better with the shotgun, but I don't. I just have more fun with the rifle and the pistol.

Bhamrichard
February 28, 2010, 12:31 AM
Until recently I haven't been much of a shooter, but I'm getting into it more and enjoying myself. This was this past weekend.. 50 rounds, 50 hits so I'm not complaining at this point. This was from 7 then backing up to 15 yards. I did much better than I thought I would :)

http://i815.photobucket.com/albums/zz79/bhamrichard/guns/group011.jpg

Sunray
February 28, 2010, 01:03 AM
Bhamrichard. please reduce the size of your pictures.
1 inch groups are usually rifle groups. Sometimes handgun target load groups.
"...How good/bad a shot is the average gun owner?..." Depends entirely on how well the pistol/revolver fits the shooter's hand, whether or not he has taken the time to find the ammo his firearm shoots best and how much he practices. I suspect most shooters who aren't shooting the assorted matches(great fun)/regularly, don't test ammo or practice enough. Worse when he doesn't practice with the ammo he intends using for SD. No point in practicing with target ammo and not with the HP's or whatever used for SD.
There are a lot of firearm owners, mostly men, who think they're natural shots(John Wayne syndrome) and don't shoot regularly. Just as many who buy a handgun that's too big for their hand and/or in a calibre that's too big for their skills.
Hitting the paper, consistently, at 7 yards, when you're new, is good. Move out to 10 yards. Join a shooting club and shoot some matches too. Match shooting really is fun and you'll meet some fabulous people. Most of whom will bend over backwards to help you, including letting you shoot their firearms. Opens other doors as well. Invites to hunt, etc. Don't worry about placing or your scores. That'll change.

XDemon(m)
February 28, 2010, 01:09 AM
Well, based on the response so far, I am both encouraged (at my own progress), and terrified (for the general population).

JLaScala
February 28, 2010, 01:35 AM
Experience/training + firearm being used + location= accuracy

CajunBass
February 28, 2010, 07:22 AM
I can usually miss pretty close.

Blakenzy
February 28, 2010, 08:06 AM
How good/bad a shot is the average gun owner?

Within Internet land, or the physical World?

'Cause there is a difference.

tkopp
February 28, 2010, 12:11 PM
Really depends on the firearm. All these sizes are the result of ~25 rounds. I've been shooting handguns about a year.

With my kel tec 380 I'm lucky to stay all on paper at 10y. Horribly unergonomic.

I shoot an 8-10" group at 10 yards with my Tokarev on a bad day, mostly due to horizontal stringing. Darn heavy trigger. I can do 4" with that gun on a good day. All depends on how tired I am.

Regularly shoot about 6" with my Colt 1911. Most shots will end up in a ragged hole in the middle, but the rest like to pattern out around the orange. With smaller group sizes occasionally I get lucky, but so long as I keep pulling the trigger fliers start emerging.

With my scoped Ruger MKII government I put them all in a 2" group without difficulty, and it's not tighter because I'm lazy and figure 2" is good enough. From a bench I can push that silly little gun out to 100y. It's a lot of fun.

So, average? Hard to say. Depends on the hardware.

Al LaVodka
February 28, 2010, 01:02 PM
"Free standing slow fire I can get them all into an 8" paper plate at 10 yards."

Dude, you need some serious coaching. For everyone's sake including the public. Not knocking you, just saying...

Al

David E
February 28, 2010, 06:58 PM
If you want to get better with your handgun, then start shooting some USPSA/IPSC and IDPA competitions.

www.uspsa.org

www.idpa.com

Both sites have "club finders" so you can find the ones near you.

LeontheProfessional
February 28, 2010, 07:22 PM
At 11 yards I can keep all my shots in the head of a full size silhouette with my Glock 22. With my Browning Buckmark I can keep all shots within 3inches at 11 yards.

Redneck with a 40
February 28, 2010, 07:29 PM
At 15 yards, I can keep all of my shots inside 6", two handed hold standing up. This is with my XD-40, an accurate semi-auto. I figure that is good enough for any situation I might run into.

shockwave
February 28, 2010, 07:34 PM
If you want to get better with your handgun, then start shooting some USPSA/IPSC and IDPA competitions.

That's good advice. While IPSC and IDPA won't get you as amped as I'd imagine a real firefight would, it does give you practice shooting under pressure. Range work is good for all kinds of things, but it won't get you in the adrenaline zone and training there is important.

roaddog28
February 28, 2010, 07:54 PM
Most folks don't shoot enough to get really good. I know I don't. Plus, my 55 year old eyes simply don't work as well as they did when they and I were younger. I can't clearly see the bullseye on a 25 yard target.

With any sort of a decent gun I can probably deliver a 4-5" group at 50 feet. That's shooting from standing with a two-handed hold. Once in a great while the sun and the moon and the stars align and the force is with me as seen in the 25 yard target seen below fired from a 6" Python (a notoriously accurate revolver) using full-power Magnum ammo.


http://www.fototime.com/AB7CECF844113D3/standard.jpg


I have a Ruger Mk I target 22 pistol made in 1966 that is crazy accurate. I can shoot 2-3" groups with it and I can only imagine what a really competent shooter could do with it. It has the best trigger I have ever felt on any handgun and that seems to be the single biggest factor in printing small groups.


http://www.fototime.com/FFB1A8CA2E380C9/standard.jpg


Now that I think about it, my S&W 25-2 seems to want to shoot really well, too. I've only tried it once but I was impressed by how well it grouped. Better than average for me. Might be the weight and long barrel just want to hold steady. Great trigger helps, too.


http://www.fototime.com/7BC131D31471041/standard.jpg
Like Saxon Pig I am getting close to 60 years old. My eyes have a harder time finding the target now then when I was younger. I shoot at least once a month at a range. I shoot mostly my revolvers. At between 7 to 10 yards if I can get all of them in the black or center shooting double action that's as good as I can shoot. I use the same target as Saxon Pig. I am most accurate with my S&W model 10 4 inch. I can shoot my 357s ok but not consistently in the black. With my semi-autos I am not quite as consistent. I would rate my shooting average to little better for my age. From want your saying, I would rate your shooting much better than average.

Regard,
roaddog28

Cornhusker77
February 28, 2010, 10:14 PM
I can hit a cow at 3 paces pretty regular.
I shoot best with my Glock 32 and a 1911.

David E
February 28, 2010, 11:10 PM
That's good advice. While IPSC and IDPA won't get you as amped as I'd imagine a real firefight would, it does give you practice shooting under pressure. Range work is good for all kinds of things, but it won't get you in the adrenaline zone and training there is important.

You might be surprised at how much adrenaline is produced. I know an ER Doc that's known far and wide for his ability to calmly run a chaotic ER room with several severe trauma cases going on simultaneously. Yet, you can see his hands shaking while waiting for the start signal. Knowing that your friends are watching you, or that you have to nail this stage to beat that "one guy" and you might find your hands shaking a bit, too.

But the thread is about finding out how good you are, or how good "average" is, not what's the best training.

IPSC/IDPA is not training for real life gunfights, but that doesn't mean they are simply useless fun.

What they ARE is a place to accelerate your learning and testing of gunhandling skills and marksmanship under pressure, on demand, while you must think on your feet. No small thing to take to a gunfight.

Add to that the comraderie, the fun and being able to compare yourself to others and there's not much of a down side.

matrdefndr
February 28, 2010, 11:27 PM
How about the "below average" gun owner?

A couple years ago, I wandered over to my local club during the weekend and noticed three real young guys shooting on our 7 yard range. To boot, they gripped their guns rotated 90 degrees from proper and wore clothes that screamed, "we're wannabe gang members."

They spent forty five minutes shooting under the careful eye of our rangemaster and another member who was making sure they were following safety procedures to the letter.

Unfortunately, they left their target boards set up so I got to take them down. There were holes uniformly riddled across the entire 3 ft X 4 ft target sheet. Course, they were shooting something that had no bolt stop and looked like it was born in a sheetmetal shop, so it might have been the gun. :D

Everyone else I talk to gets frustrated when they can't hold 4-5 inch pistol groups at 25 yards.

cavman
February 28, 2010, 11:37 PM
Very true. If I and most that I shoot with can't hold the 3.36" 10 ring, with a few out in the 5.54" 9 ring during sustained timed and rapid fire, they are upset, at 25 yards with a pistol one handed.

http://www.doppke.com/~jls/bullfaq/sec1.html\

To do this you will be in Expert (or maybe Master class). Master class regularly bemoans the errant "flyer" :) beyond the 3.36" ring at 25 yards.
Master and High Master class will regularly clean the 3.36" 10 ring, though, for full points. They are the best shooters in the group though. It should be mentioned that they are quibbling over the 1.695" x-ring points!!

Even though, some competitors, who attend matches and presumably train on the side, will be shooting into the 8" and even once and a while the 11" ring at 25 yards one handed.

So, even guys and gals that are shooting as a hobby, as a whole, will still only be hitting the 10 ring with 50%-80% regularity from what I have seen.

But, Gun owners who just "come to the range" are grouping "on paper", only. And, Non gun owners that I take to the range (as often as I can, as a matter of civic duty) can get all their shots on the B6 50 yard target when brought in to 50 feet after an afternoon of coaching. Those afternoons by the way are some of my favorite days.

From my experience most people are not gunnies, but can be brought to proficiency to hit at least all the B6 target, somewhere, when placed at 50 feet in a relatively short period of time. That is the standard that I see. If one can get on the B6 paper at 50 feet in one afternoon, that should be the starting point for nearly everyone.

rha600
February 28, 2010, 11:40 PM
I can divide my shooting into 4 groups.

1) rifle. I can probably put myself into the above average catagory for my rifle skills but then I've been shooting them since I could walk practically. I've only shot as far as 250ish yards while deer hunting and I'd love to shoot farther but I'm restricted on ranges down here in south FLA. but at 100 yards with my .17HMr i can put 3 shots in a quarter with no problem

2) shotgun. Forgot it. If I shot at 40 skeet I'd be lucky to hit 4. To put it bluntly I just plain suck with a shotgun for some reason.

3) pistol. I'd say I'm average. at 7-10 yards and depending on the gun I can keep my groups within 2" to 4". both of my .22 guns are great to shoot and very accurate. With my 9mm PX4 and my .38/.357 (2" barrel) the groups are still within 4".

4) bow. I haven't bow hunted or even shot one in years but "back in the day" I used to put 6 arrows in a 3" pie plate at 25-30 yards. But again, I have been shooting bows since I was a little guy. :)

w_houle
February 28, 2010, 11:52 PM
Some days are better than others for me, although I do seem to be progressively shaking worse, and now the days of making 4" are seldom to the point where I'm just glad they all make it on paper most of the time.
Hand, wrist, arm, upper body exercise isn't helping. I'd like a job again, so I can afford my Inderal... I didn't want to say anything because I've had to bring myself in to 15 feet in order to have good looking targets:rolleyes:

scarredpelt
March 1, 2010, 02:08 AM
@ 25 yards I can hit the back wall of the range.

Guy B. Meredith
March 1, 2010, 03:14 AM
Bullseye shooters are not average shooters. Don't watch them. It could do you harm.

A lot depends on the type of gun the shooter uses. Some, like the Ruger MK whatever family, seem to have flight control systems on board the bullet. Lighter firearms with "brisk" loads are more of a challenge.

For my part, it seems I take 50 rounds just to warm up, get zen and settle down. Today I was happy keeping most of my shots inside an 8" black at 15 yards with a 4" S&W M66 with somewhat hot home loaded .38 spl, double action. My 686+ would make it a lot easier, but then what's the fun?

Unlike SaxonPig with his 25 yard group I was happy with this single action one at 7 yds.

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs082.snc3/14998_332639279284_709639284_3670114_4373847_n.jpg

Gunfighter123
March 1, 2010, 03:52 AM
As others have posted -- average is very hard to define.

I am a "average" Bullseye shooter.
I am a "average" Trap shooter.
I am a "average" Skeet shooter.

But if we are talking about other types of shooting;

Some would say I am a "above average" Steel Challenge shooter
Some would say I am a "above average" IPSC/IDPA shooter
Some would say I am a "above average" SASS/Cowboy Action shooter
Some would say I am a "above average" Action/Combat Shotgun shooter
Some would say I am a "above average" Action/Combat Revolver shooter
Some would say i am a "above average" Bowling Pin/2nd Chance shooter

In over 25+ years of competitive shooting I have been Blessed/Lucky enough to have won between 200/300 trophies/plaques/ribbons etc. ---- that may sound like a lot BUT I have shot in over 2000+ matches !!!! In my "prime" {10/15 years ago } I would shoot over 1000 rds. of .45acp in ONE DAY of practice. Aside from work {gotta pay to play} my life revolved around reloading, practiceing, instructing, and competiting. Then came children and my life revolved around them !!!

The photo I post below is not there to brag . It is a sample of what can be achived with a lot of TIME,MONEY and HARD WORK. After awhile , the wife/girlfriend will say " no more of that JUNK in here and you may have boxes of trophies in the garage { I know this for fact} -- what matters to me , is the PEOPLE and FUN that I have had -- not the trophies.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Jailbird123/DSC01752.jpg


in closeing , really the only way you can see if you are "average" is to put your money up and shoot in whatever type of competition that is FUN TO YOU !!!

Gunfighter123
March 1, 2010, 03:55 AM
Sorry -- double tap

Gunfighter123
March 1, 2010, 04:03 AM
Sorry --- triple tap


Told ya I was fassst !!!!:o

ArkieVol
March 1, 2010, 07:23 AM
Practice, practice, practice...:)

The secret to accomplishing anything. Good for you for taking lessons and learning the right way. Keep reading, practicing and learning and you'll be fine.

I owned guns all my life but never shot much, maybe 400 rounds a year but did ok. When I retired, I never fired a round for over 10 years but a motorcycle crash a couple of years ago left me with a paralyzed left hand and the need for a new hobby so, last year, I bought a couple of new guns, joined a shooting club and started shooting again and reloading. Fired 1200 rounds last year.

Been too cold to shoot this year but the attached pic is from last Oct.. 46 rounds at 7 yds one hand no support with a 2" S&W mod 60 using .38 spl. wadcutters. The three flyers were my last three shots...got tired I guess. I'm 73. :)

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p77/ArkieVol/guns/2009_oct_46roundsat7yds-1.jpg

Losov
March 1, 2010, 07:53 AM
My daughter is applying to several police agencies. Since she'd never fired a gun, I thought it time to get her acquainted with the experience.

My goal at the first outing was to teach her weapon and range safety, get her comfortable in a grip and a stance and to get used to the feel of the weapon discharging. How well she shot was secondary. We used an SP 101 .22lr snubbie and a Colt King Cobra with a 4" barrel.

Actually, she shot pretty well. We used silhouette targets with the red over the head and the heart. No tight groupings, but as mentioned, shots loosely clustered in the area of concentration.

To minimize target manipulation, we elected to use different areas of the target with each cylinder, i.e., right shoulder, left shoulder, neck, corners, etc. The result was a target with bullet holes all over the damn place.

When we were leaving, she happened to walk past the president of the club, a highly respected older gentleman, who asked to see her target. He looked at it shaking his head, and suggested she enroll in the ladies instruction program. Actually not a bad idea, but she had in reality shot much better than he thought. He's one of those guys you don't interrupt or correct, so we just thanked him and went on our way.

Double Naught Spy
March 1, 2010, 08:03 AM
Yeah, I am probably in the top 75% of regular shooters which puts me in the top 5% of gun owners. Given the number of gun owners, that sounds pretty good until you realize how many really either don't shoot or don't shoot often. A lot are just happy to hit the target at 7 yards with a pistol or 100 yards with a rifle...meaning they need to be good enough to shoot a person for self defense or to be able to kill a deer.

SaxonPig, not to worry. Your aim will improve with time. 1 of 5 isn't bad, but I think you will enjoy being able to get most or even all your shots in the black and eventually into the X ring. :D

Old Shooter
March 1, 2010, 09:06 AM
Most of the people on this site are probably above average just due to their interest in the subject.If it is something you like to do and are willing to put in the practice/range time eventually you will improve, perhaps to a striking degree. When it comes to shooting paper at the range, I find that if I start out with a couple of mags from my 22 and then go to the centerfires I will shoot much tighter groups as compared to using the centerfires right off the bat. An exception is when I am using my S&W model 66, that one just tries to shove them all through the same hole by itself.

dogngun
March 1, 2010, 09:06 AM
I used to be pretty good with a handgun, better with a rifle. I had bypass surgery in '03, and I have been terrible since - never got all my strength back in my hands, and can't seem to hold a rifle still enough anymore to be really accurate...of course I am going on 63, so my eyes may have something to do with it, too. I will be shooting more this summer than I have for years, and maybe things will improve a bit.

I was always a bad wing shot with a shotgun, even though I qualified with one and carried one in the Army a long time ago. Different ball game altogether.

As far as the "average" gun owner, I'd probably want to be elsewhere when they start shooting...I am sure very few get much practice of instruction.

mark

Jonah71
March 1, 2010, 12:16 PM
When both eyes worked, I was an excellent shot. I was also much younger and so was my "good eye". Now, depending on what I'm holding, I'm not good at all. From 15-20 yards with my S&W .38 special I do ok. With the 9mm Compact semi auto, .380, .45, and .22 mag 2 " .....LOL. I shoot a LOT. The only thing that seems to be improving is my loading speed and the time it takes to clean my guns.

woodsoup
March 1, 2010, 03:45 PM
"Free standing slow fire I can get them all into an 8" paper plate at 10 yards."

Dude, you need some serious coaching. For everyone's sake including the public. Not knocking you, just saying...

Al
Dude, I'm 63, the eyes are going, and the shakes set in after a few minutes of holding that 2 pound chunk of stainless steel out there. At least I'm honest about my results.
Not to mention, I've only owned the weapon since December and have only put maybe 150 rounds through it at an outdoor range. How average are you "DUDE"?

Gunfighter123
March 1, 2010, 04:17 PM
Al LaVodka -------- that comment WAS NOT very "the high road" of you at all. Now I think you should "man up" and say that was the wrong thing to post !!!!

Or you could just post proof of how good a shooter YOU are ---just saying !!!

Myles
March 1, 2010, 05:36 PM
The compliment from a passing stranger at the range could have also been a nice friendly way to encourage a new shooter.

Action_Can_Do
March 1, 2010, 05:41 PM
The average hunter is a bad shot.
The average cop is a bad shot.
Why? Because they only shoot their guns one week out of the year. Think of how bad of a driver you might be if you only drove one week out of the year. At the age of 50, you would have less driving experience and skill than the average 17 year old. If you go to the range once a month, you're a better shot than 90% of the people out there who own guns. I wouldn't be surprised at all to discover that the majority of members of this site are above average shooters, as we're all enthusiasts. Kinda like, I wouldn't be surprised if someone who spent time on a movie trivia website knew more about movies than me, even though I own some.

f4t9r
March 1, 2010, 05:44 PM
I can hit anything thats bigger then a pie plate at 7 yards.
I am just that good.

Guy B. Meredith
March 1, 2010, 08:09 PM
Hey, what is this constant thing about "old eyes"? All you have to see is the front sight--reading glasses ought to do it. The rest is supposed to be blurry. :neener:

I will admit that when the black is so blurred it begins to look like two targets things get complicated. And the floaters can be a PIA as well if the shooter is trying to hurry.

64 year old eyes with .8 lenses here.

gwnorth
March 1, 2010, 08:23 PM
Throw in some major astigmatism and the need (and I do mean need) for progressive multifocal lenses, and it becomes a bit more difficult then just "hey, I can see the front sight" :)

Guy B. Meredith
March 1, 2010, 08:56 PM
Nah, don't want progressive for shooting, just front sight focal length plus some astigmatism adjustment. (I have astigmatism.)

kmc_xd40
March 2, 2010, 01:46 PM
i feel if you can hit the paper from 15 yards with all of your shots then you're above average. I typically have tight groupings of 4" or better at 7 yards and about 10" at 15 yards. If i were to enroll in more competitions I'm sure i would want to bring that in a bit.

content
March 2, 2010, 04:50 PM
Hello friends and neighbors// OP XDemon(m) just wondering what type of handgun you are shooting.

LexRex
March 3, 2010, 12:08 AM
I can back up what was said about IPSC/IDPA. Again, it's not self defense training but it does help. When I was starting out I was lucky to stay on a pie plate at 7 yards slow fire. I used to shoot at the NRA range at their HQ and one of the guys there encouraged me to come out and try IPSC. I showed up and everyone was super nice and understanding of me as a newbie. I shot limited 10 with a Kimber Team Match. They do a great job on IPSC setups at that range and I got hooked. I put in the practice, practice, practice and after a month or two I was shooting VERY well. I had ranked top 10 a few times in match and I was able to put 4-5 rounds in a 6" group at 7 yards within 2 seconds, they had the moving targets there where they would start off profile and flip broadside randomly for the time you programmed. I started at 5 and worked my way to 2 seconds. All in all, a lot of fun was had and it was a great learning experience. In the end, it became too expensive to keep shooting at that rate (at least 500 rounds a week) and I didn't have time to reload (young family, job, etc.) so I stopped shooting the matches.

I took a bit of a shooting hiatus but now I am active again and I'm looking for an IDPA league to try out. I'll be reloading this time once I get everything set up.

The Wiry Irishman
March 3, 2010, 01:22 PM
I've been spending a great deal of time at a new indoor range in town, and I've seen a lot of other people shooting, from people that don't own guns and are just renting to people coming in with five or six of their own. From that sample pool, it seems like "average" is all shots on the torso (meaning neck to where it ends at the bottom of the paper) of a full-size silhouette at seven yards, firing a round every second or second and a half.

Jonah71
March 3, 2010, 07:54 PM
I just got new glasses. I don't care what the weather is like I'm spending the next 2 mornings at the range. But I sure was surprised at the upward surge in the price of .45 acp's around here! OUCH!

Al LaVodka
March 4, 2010, 12:14 AM
Dude, I'm 63, the eyes are going, and the shakes set in after a few minutes of holding that 2 pound chunk of stainless steel out there. At least I'm honest about my results.
Not to mention, I've only owned the weapon since December and have only put maybe 150 rounds through it at an outdoor range. How average are you "DUDE"?
Well, I hope I'm buying new guns and shooting at least as well as you when, if, I reach your age.
Mea Culpa
Al

Guy B. Meredith
March 4, 2010, 12:26 AM
Hey, hey, hey. 63 is a piece of cake if you avoid natural disasters, bad drivers and keep your favorite firearm at hand when the bad guys come around. The sixties really are the new 40s.

I blew through that one last year. Actually I feel better about myself now than I did in my 40s. The only difference is that I now know those irritating blocks on my vision are floaters and not dirt floating on my cornea.

Oh yeah and the increasingly strong urge to do what I should have done in my 20s and kick back to explore life.

Time to spend more time at the range and get better than average.

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