Laser Cast Bullets


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1912 minus 1
February 28, 2010, 01:17 AM
Hello,

I am new to reloading and have a question about Laser Cast bullets. These are cast lead bullets, so I am wondering how reliably they feed through the gun as opposed to FMJ? Also, will they lead up my barrel quite a bit? The price seems really good, I can buy 1,000 .40/10mm projectiles for $108.00, that's only $5.40 per box (50). A box of factory 10mm goes for over $30, anymore seems a lot closer to $35 or even $40.

Thanks in advance for any advise!

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bds
February 28, 2010, 01:32 AM
I can buy 1,000 .40/10mm projectiles for $108.00

Have you checked out Missouri Bullet prices? $62/$64 for 1000 170/180gr + 5% THR member discount.

http://www.missouribullet.com/pricing.php

Tilos
February 28, 2010, 01:42 AM
With Missouri Bullet being my favorite and at about 50% the cost of Laser cast...even with shipping.

I went to a store that stocked Laser Cast recently and saw a box of 9mm bullets for $51.
I thought I don't want to carry a 1000 bullets because I'm on my motorcycle.
I picked up the box and it was ONLY 500 bullets!!!
How fast can I put something down without dropping it...pretty fast!

I buy 500 9mm bullets all day long for $26-$30 and have them on my doorstep in 4 days.
Check out Missouri bullets.
Also Dardas cast bullets has gotten good reviews.
I have not tried Dardas because of the good service EVERONE gets from Missouri.

Tilos

lwknight
February 28, 2010, 02:16 AM
You're not buying anything but a name that puts bullets on Cabelas shelves.
The price can be beat almost anywhere. The smaller shops take pride in their products instead of market share and advertising.

1912 minus 1
February 28, 2010, 02:17 AM
How accurately made are hard cast lead as opposed to FMJ?

ants
February 28, 2010, 02:22 AM
A well made lead bullet can give excellent accuracy, and a lousy jacketed bullet can give bad accuracy.

Accuracy isn't just the bullet, it is the combination of everything in the process (including the gun and the shooter). Good bullets are just one part.

The amount of lead deposited in the barrel is also a function of many variables. Do a search on this Forum and you'll find more information than this one thread can possibly yield.

Better yet, get a book (Lyman is good) on loading cast bullets. You'll learn more about the fundamentals from a good book than from forums on the internet.

Of course, the beauty of reloading is that you can buy a box of bullets and try them for yourself. Welcome to reloading.

jfh
February 28, 2010, 02:30 AM
"How accurately made are hard cast lead as opposed to FMJ?"

'Accurately' may not be the criteria you are looking for. The proper diameter for your barrel (for example, a .45ACP lead bullet is typically .452 dia.) is one factor. That is typically not an issue; sizers do that just fine. More important is the quality and consistency of the casting--e.g., full molds, with clean swipes on the base, indicating a proper temperature for the alloy when the bullet is cast and released. The lube application is another factor--too much of the wrong type can be a nuisance while reloading, for example. Probably the single most important factor is the hardness, or BHN of the alloy. That needs to be matched to your particular reloading powder and the expected velocity you want from your load.

Typically, a BHN of about 11-14 is what one wants for .45ACP; harder alloys may well lead up the barrel, for they will not obdurate and fill the barrel properly.

Personally, I see no benefit to plated or jacked bullets for most shooting, particularly with .45ACP (I no longer load for .40S&W, so I am not up to speed there; I use lead bullets almost exclusively with 10mm loads.)

Missouri Bullet has an excellent reputation in this forum; I see no advantage to the Laser Cast bullets--and I have some 3000 of them on hand (at $60.00 / 1000 delivered, thirty-two months ago.

Jim H.

ArchAngelCD
February 28, 2010, 03:02 AM
Laser Cast bullets are of very high quality Lead bullets will not lead your barrel if you use the correct hardness for what you are shooting. In the 40 S&W you will want a hard bullet like those made by Laser Cast. (18 BHN or better) When loading low velocity low pressure rounds like the .38 Special you will want a lead bullet that's softer. (~12 BHN) You will lead your barrel just as fast with a too hard bullet for low pressure rounds as you will using too soft a bullet in high pressure rounds. You can even shoot softer bullets in your 40 S&W as long as a good lube is used on the bullets.

Now, I must tell you (like said above) the prices you are quoting are not good prices. Missouri Bullets (http://www.missouribullet.com/), Tennessee Valley Bullets (http://www.tennesseevalleybullets.com/) and a few others on the NET will send you high quality bullets for almost half the price.

Lead bullets are just as accurate as jacketed bullets but cost less. If you are going to shoot lead bullets from a Glock I would rethink that idea or buy a replacement barrel suitable for lead bullets.

bds
February 28, 2010, 03:03 AM
How accurately made are hard cast lead as opposed to FMJ?

My experience has been Montana Gold FMJ and Rainier Ballistics plated TMJ bullets have been very accurate match shooting bullets (bullet to bullet weight variance less than 1 grain) I have used compared to other jacketed/plated bullets. My accuracy standard is 2" groups off hand at 15 yards.

Hard cast lead bullets with some powder/charge loads come very close to Montana Gold/Rainier accuracy. I am currently practicing with G27/Lone Wolf barrel shooting lead reloads. I use 1/2 sheet of 8x11 copy paper as targets and I get all of my rapid fire/quick draw shots inside the 1/2 sheet at 15 yards. I may end up shooting my matches with the practice lead reloads.

I hope this helped.

Peter M. Eick
February 28, 2010, 08:15 AM
I still shoot and order a lot of lasercast bullets because they work and I have had good luck with them. Cheaper then jacketed bullets but not as cheap as other lead bullets.

Just yesterday though, I placed a reasonable test order with Missouri Bullets and Penn bullets to see how they work. I decided I am going to test head to head the different bullet companies in my guns and see if I can change. Lasercast has been good to me though so they set a high standard.

Last night I was looking and I realized I have about 25,000 lasercast bullets under the bench right now. I figured this out since I was looking for a box of 124 grn 9mm's and I had buried it behind the 45acp 220 TC's.

loadedround
February 28, 2010, 08:24 AM
Fellas, I don't have a horse in this race, but I have been using "laser Cast" bullets exclusively since I first discoverd them. Their lead alloy is one of the hardest alloys I have come across, and I have pushed them to over 1200 fps in my 9mm, 10mm, 44 mag handguns. In addition, I used their 200 gr swc bullet in both of my Gold Cups with excellent accuracy. None of my pistols or revolvers have ever leaded up using Laser Cast bullets. In addition, I have found these bullets to be the only factory cast bullets that I can shoot in my older 6" Phython w/o leading. To me the extra price is worth it to me in time spend not scraping lead out of my handgun barrels.

MADDOG
February 28, 2010, 09:19 AM
I have used them also in .44 mag. with success. I will try the others mentioned in the future.

jmortimer
February 28, 2010, 10:01 AM
What loadedround said. The Oregon Trails Laser Cast is an excellent bullet and very hard - in the 20's I think. The Missouri bullet is cheaper and a great value but it not the same quality as the Laser Cast. If cost is an issue get the Missouri bulets, If you have the $$$ get the Laser Cast.

Hunt480
February 28, 2010, 10:09 AM
It has been my experiece with Laser cast bullets;I have had excessive leading in both the 41 & 44 mags with no matter to type powder & load combinations. Even with minimal load combinations these bullets lead badly in my guns. If you try to load these bullets fast or just moderately fast you will experience the worst leading you have ever seen. I beleive these bullets are of bad design and I will not buy these again.Just my opinion but I'm sure others have had this same experience.

Maj Dad
February 28, 2010, 10:22 AM
A well-cast and properly dimensioned lead bullet of a suitable hardness is just that, makes no difference who sells it. I think most of us have found that the price and service from Brad & Missouri Bullets is second to none, and while you may find equally good service elsewhere, MBC makes it unnecessary to look elsewhere. Strictly my 2 cents based on my experience... :scrutiny:

1912 minus 1
February 28, 2010, 10:56 AM
You're only 30-40 minutes away from me.

1912 minus 1
February 28, 2010, 10:57 AM
Lot of great information came from this thread! wow...

Redhat
February 28, 2010, 11:05 AM
I've always used Lasercast 200gr SWC in my 45 ACP, but that was before I heard about MBC. They have worked great but when they run out I will try some MBC.

Tilos
February 28, 2010, 03:13 PM
They cost as much as premium plated and some bulk jacketed.

Maybe those who shoot them, like the lube smoke:what:

Just my opinion,

Tilos

1moa@500
February 28, 2010, 03:32 PM
I have shot both lazercast and mbc bullets. If you want a hard bullet for a 44 mag I purchase lazercast. For my 45acp and 38spcl I purchase mbc. Also I have to say that I have never ordered from a company as nice and as focused on customer service as mbc. I placed an order tue nightat midnight and it was at my door sat morning.

MissouriBullet
February 28, 2010, 04:42 PM
I have shot both lazercast and mbc bullets. If you want a hard bullet for a 44 mag I purchase lazercast. For my 45acp and 38spcl I purchase mbc. Also I have to say that I have never ordered from a company as nice and as focused on customer service as mbc. I placed an order tue nightat midnight and it was at my door sat morning.
And I was worn out when I got home after that long drive, too!

Gadzooks Mike
February 28, 2010, 06:51 PM
You can also look here: http://www.goldenwestbrass.com/ to get FMJ bullets for a decent price.

1912 minus 1
February 28, 2010, 07:27 PM
A good time to ask this question:

Money aside, what are the pros and cons of using quality, hard cast lead projectiles opposed to quality jacketed projectiles?

Perhaps we could break this down into two areas: self defense and target shooting.

Thanks again for all the great replies guys! (and the occasional gal LOL)

By the way, I don't know if I mentioned it yet, but these are my guns:

1. Springfield Armory "Loaded" full size stainless with the following work done by Springfield Custom, yes the most awesome custom shop there is :D :

a. Trigger worked to a perfect, and I do mean perfect 4.5 lbs.
b. bead blasted to a nice satin finish (very classy looking for anybody thinking about it
c. front strap machine checkered to 25 LPI (do not spend the money on the hand checkering, the machine checkering is excellent and cannot be improved upon IMO
d. internally de-burred
e. feed ramp polished

I also removed the stupid anti-gun ILS component.

Further plans:

a. finely checker rear of slide including the rear of the ejector
b. have fully adjustable target night sights installed
c. Most important: possibly any suggestions y'all may have for me :D

2. EMP. Enough said. EMP. Only plan it to checker the front strap and the rear of slide. It needs nothing else. GREAT gun for $1,000. Get one!!!

3. Sig P226 ST in .40/.357 Sig. AWESOME gun right out of the box. No mods needed ever.

4. Smith and Wesson 686PP 6" barrel 7-shot .357 magnum. If I could only own one gun, it would be this one and the EMP. Or is that two?

5. Various others that I don't feel like writing about right now.

Looking forward to lots of good discussions on this great forum!

-Mike

4. Smith & Wesson

warnerwh
February 28, 2010, 08:12 PM
I still have several hundred Lasercast bullets for my .44 left but will buy MB next time. The Lasercast are excellent quality but so are the MB bullets. Accuracy of the MB is true excellence in one of my .357's. This is a place I'm somewhat picky regarding accuracy but under 1.5" at 25 yards is good enough for me. This is consistent from a rest.
The Lasercast I use in a RBH and it will do 1.5" at 25 yards. One reason the .357 is more accurate is probably because it is a Dan Wesson so the accuracy comparison isn't apples to apples.

bds
February 28, 2010, 08:57 PM
Perhaps we could break this down into two areas: self defense and target shooting.
Personally, I use FMJ/lead reloads for target practice/match shooting and use factory JHP for SD/HD (I live in lawsuit crazy California).

Money aside, what are the pros and cons of using quality, hard cast lead projectiles opposed to quality jacketed projectiles?
Jacketed/plated bullets give you nice and shiny loaded bullets - until you shoot them. With smokeless powder, virtually no smoke when shot and keep your chamber/rifling fairly clean :D

Lead bullet lube will smoke when shot, but not as much as black powder (hence the "smokeless powder'). It is not harmful when inhaled. Some powder/charge combinations reduce the amount of smoke. I use Bullseye/Red Dot/W231-HP38/HS6/WSF and really don't have much problem with the amount of smoke.

Depending on the bullet hardness and powder charge, you will get more fouling than jacketed/plated and may get some leading in your barrels. My barrels usually come clean with just Hoppes #9 solvent and copper brush. I have 3 different lead cleaner, but never had to use them in the past 15+ years of shooting lead bullets.

Loaded lead bullets will still have some bullet lube left on the "cone" of the bullet that's exposed above the case neck. I usually shoot them as they are, and sometimes will simply wipe off the excess lube I see with paper towel.

Your bullet seating die will also get some bullet lube buildup. I routinely inspect my dies and the lube buildup easily comes off.

By the way ... these are my guns:
1. Springfield Armory "Loaded" full size stainless
2. EMP
3. Sig P226 ST in .40/.357 Sig.
4. Smith and Wesson 686PP 6" barrel 7-shot .357 magnum.
Shooting
5. Various others that I don't feel like writing about right now.

Above mentioned pistols #1-4 have conventional land/groove rifling in the barrels and won't have problems shooting lead. If your "various others" include Glocks with tighter polygonal rifling, I would recommend you keep your chamber/rifling clean to minimize excess pressure buildup (I take a mini cleaning kit to the range and inspect the barrel/clean as necessary).

Tilos
February 28, 2010, 09:20 PM
Good question:

The short answer is lead for shooting and playing gun games.

Self Defense specific ammo for self defense, never reloads.
You will get shreaded in court if you use reloads on a bad guy.
Not criminal court, but civil court by the BG's family or the BG if he survives.

Self defense ammo cost more because of the extra care and inspections to ensure that it goes bang and with a projectile designed for the job.

My opinion and your's may be different.
Sorry, not so short,
Tilos

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