Glock 21SF - Mag Release Question/Troubleshooting


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SHusky57
February 28, 2010, 02:35 AM
When I insert a fully loaded mag, I have to give it a little extra umph for it to seat in position. The magazine release (ambidextrous - 3rd Gen) also get's stiff as a board.

This is the only Glock I have with the ambi release and this issue.
Is this normal or should I have my Glock checked out?

What could be causing the mag release to get so stiff?
It doesn't do it with empty mags, just fully loaded ones.

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bds
February 28, 2010, 02:42 AM
Is your magazine ambi release magazines?

Here's a related thread - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=456300

Quiet:
Those are the newer style of magazines (8th generation).
The cut is there so it works with the ambi-mag release.

Since, the 9x19mm/.357SIG/.40S&W/.45GAP magazines share the same magazine bodies and the 10x25mm/.45ACP magazines share the same magazine bodies, it's cheaper to make all the magazines with the ambi-mag release cut than to make two different styles of magazines.

Ambi-mag release magazines will work in Glocks with the standard mag release.
Ambi-mag release Glocks will only work with ambi-mag release magazines (unless you modify the older style Glock magazines)

Currently, there are four different type of Glocks that have the ambi-mag release.
They are:
Glock 17MB
Glock 19MB
Glock 21SF (picatinny rail + ambi-mag release)
Glock 21SF (Glock rail + ambi-mag release)

http://i462.photobucket.com/albums/qq344/quiet_wolf/G17mags-numbered.jpg

Sapper771
February 28, 2010, 10:31 AM
I may be reading the OP post wrong but I think that the reason that it takes more pressure to seat the loaded magazine is due to the top round of the loaded magazine being under higher spring pressure as it is being pressed against the cocking lug/under side of slide upon insertion. This increase of pressure is not present when the magazine is empty due to the magazine spring being at rest, and not being compressed under the 13 rounds of ammunition. Due to the design of the magazine release, if the loaded magazine is seated in , and it is under pressure, being retained by the magazine release, then the magazine release is going to be stiff too . The magazine release will have to over come the force in order to disengage from the magazine cutout and allow the magazine to drop free.

I probably took the long road in explaining this, but I just woke up and couldn't think of an easier way to explain it, sorry.

Try this : observing all firearm safety rules. Insert and seat the loaded magazine into your G21SF, do not charge it. With the base of your palm , push the base of the magazine in, like your trying to seat the mag in the pistol again(you should feel the magazine spring's force when u do this). Then press the mag release. The magazine should drop out and the magazine release shouldn't give a lot of resistance. That's what I do when I am unloading my G21SF from fully loaded.
If I confused you , I appologize.

Quiet
February 28, 2010, 01:08 PM
The mag release getting stiff with a loaded magazine, seems to be common occurance with the ambi-mag release Glocks (other people have reported/experience this).

It could be due to how the ambi-mag release is designed/operates.
It's one of those things you have to live with for having an ambi-mag release Glock.

bds
February 28, 2010, 01:09 PM
I think that the reason that it takes more pressure to seat the loaded magazine is due to the top round of the loaded magazine being under higher spring pressure as it is being pressed against the cocking lug/under side of slide upon insertion.

I think you might be right. Another thing you can do to check is to lock the slide back and insert the full magazine. If the magazine inserts without much resistance and mag release is not tight, then it is the pressure against the bottom of the slide. If this is the case, felt pressure will decrease as mag spring tension decreases (new Glock springs are extra tensioned designed to accommodate extended full mag storage). On new Glocks, I keep my mags full (or as many rounds as I can load) til the mag spring tension relaxes.

SHusky57
February 28, 2010, 04:53 PM
is there anyway to go get rid of the ambi mag release without having to get an entirely new frame?

I hate the thing.... none of my other Glocks have it - and it just creates more problems than it solves.

For example:
action pistol course (or self defense) - your first shot jams, not likely but everything happens wrong when you don't want it to. You can't clear it, need to get the mag out to clear. Due to the stiffness, you waste a precious extra second (and in practical comp. shooting or self-defense, that's a really long time).

Example 2: You're reloading your empty gun with a full mag. You slam it in, but not enough for it to lock (the G21SF with Ambi just doesn't seat/lock in as smoothly as any other glocks).... your mag falls out when you go to charge, resulting in epic fail. Or it takes an extra second to make sure it's seated, which in practical comps or self-defense is a really long time.

Seriously.... I wish Glock would stop changing things once they got it right. The 4th Gen is going to have removable backstraps and a few new whiz bangs - but eh.... I'm not sure. The more you tinker with something that already works (like the ambi mag release) - the more you're just creating the possibility for fail.

***
on a related note.... I've heard the single recoil springs are more reliable than the double (like in the baby glocks?). Why is this? The 4th gen Glocks are all going to have double springs.... and while they are supposed to reduce wear, if they are less reliable.... it's kind of like.... c'mon Glock. A recoil spring I can replace every few thousand rounds for a few bucks. My pistol failing when I need it not too.... priceless.

GLOOB
March 1, 2010, 06:03 AM
If you look at the way the ambi catch works, it pushes every so slightly upwards on the magazine, as it releases. So when the mag is full, this makes it harder to press. The release button actually stacks. This is really just a matter of what you're used to. My other Glock's normal release seems unexpectedly long and spongy, in comparison. And being that I couldn't reach a normal release on the 21SF, I overall like the ambi.

I agree that the full mag is difficult to insert, at first handling. On mine, you HAVE to push on the forward part of the mag base plate. If you push in the middle or rear, the base plate will press all the way against the bottom of the grip and the mag will still not lock! (I suppose sanding a slight bit off the bottom/rear of the magwell could preclude this from occurring).

It's just undeniably different and arguably worse (other than actually being ambi, afterall).

Sapper771
March 1, 2010, 10:47 AM
If the mag release is broken in some way, I have heard of Glock replacing the ambi frame with a standard mag release frame. I don't think that they will replace it due to you not liking it.
My 21SF has the ambi release and I did have a few problems with it sticking at first , but I did some sanding on a few spots and now it works great. I have about 4000 rounds through my 21SF and the mag release isn't as stiff as it was when I first got it , so it may smooth out with use.
Most of the stuff you speak of in your examples can be overcame with training, but if you are unhappy with it , you can always sell it and buy an SF with the standard mag release on it.
I was unhappy with mine at first , but the more I shot it and worked with it , I got use to it and it got use to me.

I normally agree with "use what works", but I think Glock was trying to answer the call of people wanting the ambi mag release, so they introduced it on one model. While not a complete failure, I don't think I would classify it as a complete success.

The Gen4s are IMO Glock's attempt to catch up with the competition. The backstrap design was a half-a**ed attempt (IMO) as well. They should have made it a slide in ordeal where you can have a Flat profile, SF profile, or a full glock profile backstrap, but that's just me.
I own a Gen4 G17 and It has been an excellent firearm so far. I like the larger mag release, slightly reduced grip, reduced recoil, and the new grip texture. Only time will tell if it will be a success.

Quiet
March 1, 2010, 10:55 AM
I too have heard that Glock was exchanging the ambi-mag release 21SF for the standard mag release 21SF. Not sure if they are still doing it, so contact Glock direct to find out more info.

I do know that the Glock ambi-mag release has not been well recieved in the USA and is the reason why Glock has decided to not import any of the MB Glocks into the USA and to go with a reversable magazine release system for the Gen4 Glocks.

SHusky57
March 1, 2010, 11:34 AM
Do the G4's have slimmer grips?

Is the reduced recoil due to the double recoil spring? I've heard those are less reliable.... but I hear a lot of things on the internet.

I'm looking at a 19/26 and the slimmer the better. I was thinking about G3, but just may go with a G4 if prices aren't too different. The problem is that even if a gunshop has them, they usually don't have a G2-G4 Glock in the model you are looking at for rent.... and rental guns aren't always great indicators as they usually have 50k+ rounds through them.... a little more than broken in.

I've heard some people like the Gen2, but I wouldn't even have a clue what that felt like. Then again, I guess I kind of just hate choices because I'm so bad at making them.

REAPER4206969
March 1, 2010, 12:16 PM
Do the G4's have slimmer grips?
2mm shorter backstrap.

bds
March 2, 2010, 01:10 AM
I've heard some people like the Gen2, but I wouldn't even have a clue what that felt like.

Gen2 Glocks came with open twisted recoil springs and Gen3 came with stiffer captured flat recoil springs. The recoil was "lighter" with Gen2, especially when shooting mild/moderate reloads. Some liked the softer recoil from the softer rate springs, but did not like compressing the spring to install the guide rod. Also, some lighter reloads would not cycle the stiffer Gen3 captured recoil spring.

Full Metal Jacket
March 2, 2010, 01:56 AM
Do the G4's have slimmer grips?

Is the reduced recoil due to the double recoil spring? I've heard those are less reliable.... but I hear a lot of things on the internet.


gen4's are SF frames, so their 3mm's smaller front to back. and yes, there's reliability issues surfacing all over the place about the gen 4's, specifically the 9mm ones.

i'm sticking with my gen 3 g19 rtf2. :D

REAPER4206969
March 2, 2010, 02:05 AM
2mm. The 10mm/.45ACP SF's are 3mm.

Full Metal Jacket
March 2, 2010, 02:27 AM
2mm. The 10mm/.45ACP SF's are 3mm.

lol you measured it with calipers, didn't you :eek: ;)

REAPER4206969
March 2, 2010, 02:29 AM
Maybe...

Full Metal Jacket
March 2, 2010, 02:30 AM
:eek: :evil:

SHusky57
March 3, 2010, 12:29 AM
gen4's are SF frames, so their 3mm's smaller front to back. and yes, there's reliability issues surfacing all over the place about the gen 4's, specifically the 9mm ones.

Is this just a case of "if it's not broke, don't fix it?"

Can you PM with specifics? The 9mm Glocks are known to be the most reliable, so this is surprising. Is it the recoil spring/guide rod changes that are causing it?

Unfortunately, I don't think any company makes the pistol I want right know - so I have to settle for whatever comes closest..... I want something that never jams (well, at least as close as is humanly possible), has an external hammer that is constant DA of about 6 pounds, super fast reset, is super light weight, corrosion resistant, and holds a ton of rounds while maintaining really small dimensions for carry..... any given pistol I know of fails to meet one of those requirements..... this is way off topic now. PM to continue.

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