Out of the box 1911 Accuracy?


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mbopp
February 28, 2010, 10:30 AM
So I've had a 20 year hiatus from shooting but got back into it a few years ago. I've been shooting a friends stock Colt Government Series 80 and have the itch for a 1911. Now, I've got a couple of .22 pistols and a 4" K-frame, off sandbags the 22's will go under an inch at 25 yards and the S&W isn't far behind. But the Colt is all over the paper with factory ammo and handloads.
So are there any factory 45's that will go X-ring on the 25 yard bullseye target? Colt Gold Cup?, Springfield Loaded or Trophy Match? A used Les Baer or other semi-custom maker? Kimbers seem to run hot and cold, some people love 'em and some hate 'em. Or do I find a base gun and let someone like Clark work it over?

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Kingofthehill
February 28, 2010, 10:35 AM
On a ransom rest, all of those SHOULD.

skipsan
February 28, 2010, 10:57 AM
In general terms, I believe that factory production 1911s (less than $1000) will shoot 3" groups from a rest at 25 yds. Springfield quotes their Trophy Match/TRP at 2 1/2" at that range from a rest.

The semi-customs from the various manufacturers advertise 1.5" groups at that range and some like Les Baer have an option for a hefty premium that guaranties 1.5" groups at 50 yds (or .75" at 25 yds.)

jad0110
February 28, 2010, 11:07 AM
skipsan,

I think you've got it about right, though I imagine there are exceptions.

It has been said by some that to equal the mechanical accuracy of a mechanically solid, used $250 S&W K Frame it takes about a $1500 1911 :D . Not always, but usually. Certainly true of my mil-spec springfield 1911.

schmeky
February 28, 2010, 11:38 AM
mbopp,

I think you would be more than pleased with a Les Baer. I have had a bunch of 1911's,included a Gold Cup, however I have not owned a Springfield Loaded or Match.

You can find a really nice, low mileage, used Les Baer for around $1,200-$1,400 or so. My Les Baer will do around 1.0" @ 25 yards from a rest when I'm "on"; the group is basicially just a big hole.

bluetopper
February 28, 2010, 11:49 AM
Look at Dan Wesson 1911's.

robctwo
February 28, 2010, 01:18 PM
I bought a used, lnib Baer 1.5" a few years ago. Very nice. Ed Brown Exec. Target is right up there as well. My SA loaded isn't bad, but not at the same level. The older I get the happier I am with 6" groups at 25 yards off hand.

SlamFire1
February 28, 2010, 01:31 PM
When I was having problems with my new series 80 Colt combat Elite, I called Colt Customer Service. The mid 80ís Gold Cup would shoot within 3.5 inches at 25 yards. That was Coltís accuracy standard at the time for their target M1911.

You can assume the non target pistols could pass by shooting a larger group.

My factory Kimber will shoot inside this mid eighties lightly customized series 80. Offhand if I keep all the shots within six inches at 25 yards, I am doing good with this pistol.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Pistols%20various/ReducedColtSeries80SS9518rightsidev.jpg

mbopp
February 28, 2010, 01:50 PM
"It has been said by some that to equal the mechanical accuracy of a mechanically solid, used $250 S&W K Frame it takes about a $1500 1911."

(Sigh) Well, I've found 3 used 1911's locally, 2 Clarks and one Les Baer. Somehow I can't get by the lolipop welded on the Clark barrels:scrutiny:
I'm in no hurry, I guess I'll keep looking.

Thanks for the replies.

jad0110
February 28, 2010, 01:55 PM
^^^ Not saying that a 1-2" 1911 can't be found on the super cheap, but your standard run of the mil GI style 1911s aren't known for superb accuracy right out of the box. Then again, most of us can't shoot to the full potential of our guns anyway, so what really matters is how well the gun shoots for you.

tincanhunter
February 28, 2010, 05:43 PM
I dunno, I must have got a factory freak. My Springer MIL Spec will shoot <1" at 25 yds with 200gr round nose or swc bullets and 8.3gr HS6.

bluto
February 28, 2010, 10:01 PM
Springer Mil Specs have been very accurate for me OOTB. Fit and finish have all been excellent. I can't shoot 1" offhand groups at 25 yards with any of my pistols, including my Les Baer. But all my Mil Specs (3) will put 5 shots into around 1.5" at that distance when I am having a good day. I don't own any higher end Springers, but I would think that a Springfield Loaded or Trophy Match would do at least as well. Obviously, a Les Baer with a 1.5" guarantee is the way to go if you want to be sure.

I rummaged around and found a sight-in target for one of my Mil Specs. Still shoots that well after about 3000 rounds.

mljdeckard
February 28, 2010, 11:09 PM
My Kimber Custom II will do 2" at 25 all day. If you want a guaranteed 1" you can regurgitate more than three times as much money for a Nighthawk. (It's not worth it to me either.)

lexjj
February 28, 2010, 11:45 PM
Bluto, do you have a copy of that target uploaded on the web somewhere? (the one on the left with 3 bullseyes sized for different ranges) I think that is pretty neat and would like to use it.

bluto
March 1, 2010, 01:38 AM
lexjj -

Glad you like my 7-15-25 yd target. Thanks.

The three targets were measured to look the same size at the three distances. At least that was the theory. I converted one into PDF format. It should print out correctly on regular 8.5 X 11 paper with the grid squares measuring exactly .5 inch each. I usually take a sample of the different targets I use to Staples or Kinko's and have them run off a hundred copies on 60 lb. paper.

Hope this works for you.

bluto

P.S. If you can't download the image, send me a pm and I'll email it to you.

Fremmer
March 1, 2010, 01:47 AM
Most 1911's will shoot as well as other (non-1911) factory centerfire semi guns. A .45 is going to be harder to shoot than a .22 or a .38 because it burns more powder and pushes a heavier bullet than the less powerful calibers (pushing lighter bullets). Physics can be a bummer. :D And maybe your friend hasn't found a load that his 1911 really likes yet.

If someone wants to shoot bullseye (competition), I suppose that they'd want a target grade gun regardless of whether they are shooting a 1911, a glock, or some other .45. So I guess if you want a true bullseye target grade gun, you're going to have to pay more money for a bullseye-style 1911, or have some work done on a stock gun, like getting the target sights you want, trigger work, maybe other stuff. You'll have to see what those guys use in competition.

But the standard factory 1911 is generally a pretty accurate gun. The standard factory 1911 will shoot as accurately (or more accurately) than a non-1911 standard factory gun -- as long as the operator does his or her part.

lexjj
March 1, 2010, 02:21 AM
Thank you good sir. I'm looking forward to trying that target out.

Old Shooter
March 1, 2010, 02:35 AM
I dunno, I must have got a factory freak. My Springer MIL Spec will shoot <1" at 25 yds with 200gr round nose or swc bullets and 8.3gr HS6.
Good gun, good load and good shooter. When all three cometogether the results can be spectacular.

schmeky
March 1, 2010, 03:41 PM
You can always buy a good basic 1911 and do some relatively inexpensive upgrading. This is my very old (1997 vintage) Kimber I bought new when they first come out. The only mechanical modification I ever made was to install a match grade barrel bushing. This shrunk groups from around 2.0-2.25" @ 25 yards, to 1.0-1.25".

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/6617/img0929x.jpg

GIJOEL
March 1, 2010, 08:15 PM
If you can find a kimber CLASSIC, series not the custom II series they are outstanding guns. The custom II guns are good too but have the dreaded drop saftey and are known for having incossistant QC. I have 2 kimber classic custom targets and they are rock solid and very accurate, the stainless one shoots a little tighter than my black one but the black one has 25kish rounds through it and the stainless only has 5k!

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