Trouble shooting tilt barrel handguns?


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Whistling Moon
February 28, 2010, 07:39 PM
I've been having trouble shooting since I've got my permit, but only on certain guns. I own a Ruger MK3 and a S&W Model 60, which I fire .38 out of. Both of these guns I am plenty accurate with. But when I shoot a Glock 22, S&W 6906, and Springfield XD45, only half of my bullets hit the paper, if I'm lucky. Vague groupings I manage to get are low and to the left. I've tried everything I can think of, shifting my grip, tightening or lightening my grip, shooting left handed, one handed, pushing against the recoil, pushing to the right when firing, forcing it up or down, aiming at different points on the paper, sight picture adjustments but nothing is working. The guns are fine, my friend can hit everything no problem. I can aim, my Ruger .22 is dead on, and I don't think its the recoil throwing me off, because single action fire on the Model 60 is pretty accurate for me as well. The only thing these two guns have in common is a fixed barrel. Could the tilt barrel guns be throwing my aim off that bad? Any tips/advice on what I could be doing wrong?

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KevinR
February 28, 2010, 07:56 PM
Is your friend using your ammo? if not make sure his bullets are the same weight. If that is not it then it has to be something you are doing. Do both of you use the same sight picture, that is do you both place the front blade so that you are pushing the target up with it. Or are one of you blocking the center of the target with the blade??

StorkPatrol
February 28, 2010, 07:59 PM
I'll take a stab at it. Try concentrating on trigger control. A Rugger .22 and a .38 revolver in single action probably have shorter, lighter triggers than a Glock or XD. My guess is that you are using the light trigger as a crutch, and not practicing a smooth, steady trigger squeeze. Or I could be full of crap because I'm not there to watch you shoot. Go shooting with somebody who is very experienced, and see what they think. --Stork

Whistling Moon
February 28, 2010, 08:05 PM
My friend drew what he sees in the snow as his sight picture, its the same. We both use the same ammo, I shoot 2 mags then him. My sight picture is lined up like the manual to the ruger says, with the center of the target just visible above the front sight. Today, I didn't do much with how I pulled the trigger but I know its supposed to be pulled straight back, quickly and I've tried adjusting the way I pull it when I had the Glock.

1SOW
February 28, 2010, 08:07 PM
Not able to see you shoot, I'd have to guess "StorkPatrol" is correct about it being a trigger pull problem.

Dry fire ( a lot) the longer pull guns watching your sight picture as you do.

When you go to the range, slip in a snap cap or two in the mags, juggle them behind your back so you don't know when they will come up, and concentrate on sight pic and follow through. The snap caps will let you know if your trigger pull is correct and if your anticipating recoil..

StorkPatrol
February 28, 2010, 08:11 PM
its supposed to be pulled straight back, quickly

No.

I think this is your problem. Try just concentrating on squeezing it straight back slowly. Don't snatch at it. Just squeeze slowly straight back while concentrating on keeping your sights aligned. Don't worry about speed. it will come with practice. --Stork

EddieNFL
February 28, 2010, 08:12 PM
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a338/EddieF/diagnostictarget.jpg

Reverse for left-hand.

Echo9
February 28, 2010, 08:24 PM
Neither the recoil nor the muzzle's momentum from the barrel tipping up should affect your accuracy -- by the time the breach is open and the gun kicks, the bullet is long gone.

I noticed that the guns you're having trouble with are bigger calibers than the ones you're OK with -- 9mm, .40S&W, and .45ACP vs. .22LR and .38 Spc.

Recoil can only affect your accuracy by making you flinch. Have your friend load some magazines for you, and hide a snap cap in one of them. If you have a flinch going on, the snap cap will expose it.

Dry firing will help you stop anticipating recoil (if you are). The Mk III is also great training.

Whistling Moon
March 1, 2010, 12:32 PM
I'm guessing its probably a combination of not-quite-perfect trigger pulling, and flinching as the problem. any idea on how long it would take for the flinching to go away? And if I were to buy a range gun for practicing on this issue, is there a particular model that would be best suited to help practice, one with lower perceived recoil to reduce flinching and better triggers?

StorkPatrol
March 1, 2010, 05:04 PM
Well, you probably don't want to hear this, but buying more guns won't solve your problems. Practice with the guns you have will solve your problems. You already have all the tools you need. The flinching will stop when you buckle down and decide to make it stop. If you want to buy something, buy "The Gun Digest Book of Combat Handgunnery" by Massad Ayoob. There is a chapter in that book called something like "the lost secrets of handgun shooting" or something like that. These are the basics that you need to focus on. (things like stance, grip, sight alignment, trigger pull) From there you can develop speed, but you need that foundation first. --Stork

The Lone Haranguer
March 1, 2010, 07:28 PM
I am skeptical that the small amount of tilt, over a cycling duration measured in milliseconds, is throwing the point of impact off. I suggest some more "triggernometry." :D

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