Hardness question - 10mm lead


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General Tso
March 1, 2010, 01:37 AM
Is 18 to 20 on the Brinell Hardness Scale, hard enough for 10mm? Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I'm very new to reloading and I saw some lead bullets for sale.

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ReloaderFred
March 1, 2010, 02:01 AM
Yes, that's plenty hard enough, as long as they're sized .401" in diameter. I've shot them as soft as BHN 12, and as hard as BHN 22 (linotype).

Hope this helps.

Fred

RippinSVT
March 1, 2010, 02:47 AM
Yes, they are, but my advice is to spend $5 on some Lee Liquid Alox Lube and tumble that on the bullets before you load 'em up. It REALLY helps with leading in the hotter loads.

General Tso
March 1, 2010, 03:33 AM
Yes, they are, but my advice is to spend $5 on some Lee Liquid Alox Lube and tumble that on the bullets before you load 'em up. It REALLY helps with leading in the hotter loads.
Is a special tumbler required for that?

RippinSVT
March 1, 2010, 04:04 AM
nope. A coffee can or tupperware container filled with bullets, squirt in some lube and shake them up. Single best thing you can do to improve cast-bullet performance.

jfh
March 1, 2010, 09:10 AM
ReloaderFred: have you ever correlated your bullets' BHN with the powder (speed) used, and the load recipe (i.e., how hot the load is)? IOW, are there powders that make more sense to run with lower-BHN bullets, or (conversely) powders that run better with high-BHN bullets? I suspect this kind of correlation may hold with other higher-pressure (handgun) rounds, too.

I've also found the barrel rifling--not the type, but the 'sharpness'--I've always preferred to burnish up new 10mm barrels with 300-500 rounds of jacketed bullets. Normally, I shoot lead--and have not investigated plated bullets.

Jim H.

Lloyd Smale
March 1, 2010, 09:23 AM
Most semi autos will shoot there better with harder lead. Some of my best loads in them use straight linotype. As to lube stay away from tumble lube. Its fine with low velocity plinking loads but its not the greatest for high velocity stuff and its very dirty and will gum up a semi auto in no time.

RippinSVT
March 1, 2010, 09:26 AM
Question wasn't for me, but I like to use smaller quantities of fast powders with soft bullets. The powder combusts extremely fast as to obturate the bullet's base, yet the pressures and velocity stay low enough to not lead the barrel badly. Generally the harder the bullets I use, the slower the powder I use. Not so much worrying about velocity, but rather peak pressures. There are formulas that help a person correlate what maximum peak pressure is good for what hardness. Example, a soft 12 BHN bullet will often be most accurate at a low-pressure of about 16,500 or so. A 24 BHN bullet thrives at 32,500psi or so loads. Velocity is simply a product of that.

billybob44
March 1, 2010, 09:29 AM
nope. A coffee can or tupperware container filled with bullets, squirt in some lube and shake them up. Single best thing you can do to improve cast-bullet performance.
Ripp, do you use Lee tumble lube on already sized/lubed bullets, for increased performance? It seems like it would add to the smoke/stickiness of load??

RippinSVT
March 1, 2010, 09:29 AM
Most semi autos will shoot there better with harder lead. Some of my best loads in them use straight linotype. As to lube stay away from tumble lube. Its fine with low velocity plinking loads but its not the greatest for high velocity stuff and its very dirty and will gum up a semi auto in no time.

I have had great luck with a light tumble lube on hot lead loads. Some of my hot lead loads with pretty darn hard bullets will smear lead right down the barrel, and that little film of lube does wonders. I agree that it can gum things up, which is why I recommend a rather thin coat for autos.

RippinSVT
March 1, 2010, 09:35 AM
Ripp, do you use Lee tumble lube on already sized/lubed bullets, for increased performance? It seems like it would add to the smoke/stickiness of load??

Sure do, every batch I buy or cast. It does add just a bit of smoke, but nothing like the factory blue/red junk commercially cast bullets come with. When I get a new order of 500 or 1000 bullets, I just open the box right away, squirt in some lube and shake them up, then spread them on wax-paper or foil to set. The way I see it, bulk cast bullets come with lube that is more IN the bullet than ON the bullet, and not only that, it may only cover the rear 25-30% of the bullet's contact area as it zooms down the tube, allowing the rest of the bullet to skid along with more friction. It's so simple, but it works in many of my loads.

RippinSVT
March 1, 2010, 09:37 AM
I should add that accuracy is more important to me than whether or not I have to clean my gun slightly more regularly because of the lube. I've experimented with a ton of loads in many handgun calibers and got sick of fighting lead. That tumble lube helps a lot.

jfh
March 1, 2010, 09:51 AM
RippinSVT: Thanks for adding your comments. Like you, I've found that correlation--but have not looked closely at it.

I've been reloading 10mm since about 1990. My early preferred round was a 200-gr. LSWC (in today's terminology, more like a LTC with a shoulder)--BHN unremembered. At any rate, it made Major out of a 6" Omega with about 4.9-5.0 gr. of 231.

Later on, I started loading 175 LSWCs, again BHN unremembered. Recently, I have moved to 180 LRNFPs, and am loading that under (typically) WSF. These I run from about 1050 on up--but have not sought out high-end loads with it.

Jim H.

243winxb
March 1, 2010, 10:43 AM
Diameter is most important as Fred said. Then match the pressure to the BHN. The Lee chart may not be correct as you would need a very high BHN for some 10mm loads if you look at the pressures on the Hodgdon data site. http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/LeeChart.jpg

ReloaderFred
March 1, 2010, 12:53 PM
jfh,

I also like the 200 grain SWC, and like you point out, it's more of a TCFP with a small shoulder. I load most of mine with either Blue Dot or Winchester 571. When Winchester discontinued 571, I bought all Widener's had in stock, which was about 25 pounds, and I'm still using it. I've tried IMR 800X, but it meters like corn flakes, and I don't have time to weigh each load when I'm loading a batch of 1,000, so it was more an experiment than anything else. The 800X has great potential, but lousy application.

I load my 10mm rounds just below maximum listed loadings with the Blue Dot and 571powders, since they're accurate in my semi-autos and my S&W 610 revolver, especially so in the revolver. I just cast up a couple thousand of 155 grain SWC 10mm bullets from linotype, but haven't loaded them yet. These will be for both 10mm and .40 S&W, along with the .400 Cor-Bon, which is why I cast them hard (BHN 22).

I haven't done much light loading for the 10mm at all, so I haven't used any of the fast powders in it. I have zero leading in the 10mm, but that's more due to the size of the bullets, which are all sized .401".

I also shoot Berry's plated bullets in the 10mm, both 180 grain and 200 grain. I like them a lot and use a bunch of them.

Hope this helps.

Fred

jfh
March 1, 2010, 02:57 PM
Thanks, guys. I'll start putting together some notes this year as I chrono loads--maybe we can build an anecdotal table....

243winxb: What page is that Lee chart?

Jim H.

243winxb
March 1, 2010, 03:50 PM
Page 2 here http://www.photobucket.com/joe1944usa Its a photo from the internet someone took. The chart is included with the Lee hardness tester i guess, i dont own one.

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