Garand reloading dies..?


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61chalk
March 1, 2010, 01:00 PM
Well I want to get into reloading...figure relaoding my CMP brass should be around 68.00 for 192 rds. Thats better than the 96.00 plus tax that it is now.
Got the primer, powder, an bullets figured out...now my question!
YEARS ago I used the LEE CLASSIC reloader on .223 for the AR....an I thought I would just get one for the 30/06....upon reasearch...I could be wrong...but believe the Lee Classic only resizes the neck.....would this be
ok for the Garand..?..I'm being led to think I may need a full size die to reform the entire brass an not just the neck....is that correct? If so, what recommendation could you give for buying a economical set up from LEE to get me started......thanks!

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longdayjake
March 1, 2010, 01:06 PM
Best die for the garand is the small base RCBS die. It is made specifically for semi auto cycling.

Canuck-IL
March 1, 2010, 01:29 PM
Small base are really for resizing brass that's been through an open bolt machine gun or such ... regular full length dies size just fine for regular brass in a semi-auto.
/Bryan

rcmodel
March 1, 2010, 01:35 PM
I disagree that you need a small base die for a Garand.

Any standard Full length sizing die will do perfectly fine if adjusted properly.

As for Lee equipment, I would recommend the Lee Classic cast iron press.
It will give you extra strength and leverage to resize mass quantities of 30-06 ammo.
Lee dies will be fine, but RCBS dies are also very good stuff.

Be sure you understand the implications of choosing the correct powder for use in a Garand. Due to the way the gas system is designed, they must use a pretty specific burn rate powder to prevent damaging the op rod.

The Hornady reloading manual has a chapter specific to the M1 Garand.

rc

61chalk
March 1, 2010, 02:42 PM
I've just heard RCBS dies an Hornady are pretty good...Planning on Win. Lg. Primers, or CCI 34, or 200 Lg. primers....either 2000 rds. 145 gr. FMJ 266.00 pre-paid shipping or probably go with 150 gr. 2000 bullets for 340.00 pre-paid shipping...150 gr. FMJ with H4895 49 gr. minus 2 gr. for using Greek military brass = 47gr. powder.

snuffy
March 1, 2010, 03:03 PM
It sounds like you're "HEARING" things on the internet instead of reading a reloading manual. Do some real research, reading a couple reloading manuals, then get some equipment.

Not everything comes from online orders. Find a local gunshop that sells components, get your reloading stuff there. You will save money from shipping and hazmat fees. Also, the owners or well informed sales man, will be able to answer questions about reloading better than coming here to ask basic questions.

61chalk
March 1, 2010, 03:47 PM
It sounds like your wrong,,,,if I wasn't doing my reading an research how did I
come up with the reloading formulas....? Know all about hazmat, never said I was
ordering powder or primers...20.00 fee on top of shipping. Please 'show' me were I'm wrong, because I'm all for learning.

SlamFire1
March 1, 2010, 03:49 PM
For a Garand, for safety sake, you should always full length size your cases.

This is the Process I follow:

1. Set up your sizing dies with a cartridge headspace gage. Size to gage minimum.

2.Trim cases.

3. I recommend reaming primer pockets to depth.

4. Always seat all primers with a hand tool (I use the Lee) and inspect each and every primer to determine that it is below the case head.

I do not recommend Federal primers, they are extremely sensitive and gained a reputation for slamfires in M1’s and M1a’s. I use CCI #34’s for gas guns, they require a good wack to ignite.

4. Dump your favorite powder. For Garands, anything in the 4895 burn rate will do well.

So many people reload for bolt rifles that they are used to what would be sloppy reloading practices for auto rifles.

As long as the bolt cams engage, you can crush fit an oversized cartridge in a bolt gun. That is why neck sizing is so popular and hardly any bolt gunners ever set up their dies with a case gage. They just crush fit the ammo in the chamber and can't even feel it when they are doing it.

Gas guns will jam with ammo that will chamber in bolt rifles.

Garands and M1'a do have the inertia to chamber slightly fat and slightly long cases. But it is a bad idea as bolt closure is delayed as the cartridge is crush fit to the chamber. In that time period, that free floating firing is just tapping the heck out of the primer, and your lugs are not engaged.

That has, and will lead, to out of battery slamfires.

Most of my gas guns are match rifles. I have a few rifles with military chambers. Chambers in military rifles are huge. The cases come out huge too.

Regardless of the type of sizing die, for rifles you should always use a cartridge headspace gage to set up your sizing die.

You simply size the case, drop it in the gage, and see if it is between the Go and No Go ledges.

Wilson gage with new Winchester brass.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Reloading/ReducedWilsongagemeasuringnew308bra.jpg

I own a number of Wilson cartridge headspace gages. They cost about $25.00. These work great in setting up your dies to size the case to SAAMI lengths. These gages are also oversize between the shoulder and the base, so you can drop a fired case in the gage and roughly measure the headspace of your rifle.

But a Wilson gage won't tell you if the sized round is too fat.

I also have reamer cut gages. I have asked the gunsmiths who chamber my match rifles to use their chambering reamers and cut me a dimensionally correct chamber from a barrel stub. I can use this gage to tell me if my ammunition is too fat as well as being too long.

I now can gage brass in a "duplicate" chamber. This has lead me to the use of small base dies. As an example, I found two huge fired WRA 68 cases. One would drop all the way in the Wilson gage, but the other would not drop in the reamer cut gage.

After sizing with a standard Lee sizing die, one case would not drop all the way in the reamer cut gage. After sizing with a Redding small base die, the other case would drop in the reamer cut gage.

If you want to improve your feed and extraction reliability in a semi auto, you should use small base dies.

A couple of caveats, one is that you must set up a small base die with a cartridge headspace gage or you will set the case shoulder back too much. This is the origin of those myths that state small base dies oversize brass. They will if you don’t gage your die set up.

The second caveat is that spray on lubes don’t have the lubricity necessary to small base size. You will turn your bench over trying to small base size if all you are using is a spray on lube. Imperial sizing wax and RCBS water soluble work just fine in small base dies.



Once fired WRA 68, one drops in Wilson gage, the other won’t drop in reamer cut gage.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Small%20Based%20Sized%20Cases/OncefiredWRA68unsizedincasegages.jpg



WRA 68 case sized in Lee sizing die, won't drop in reamer cut gage
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Small%20Based%20Sized%20Cases/WRAsizedinLeedie.jpg



WRA68 case sized in Redding small base die, drops in reamer cut gage
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Small%20Based%20Sized%20Cases/WRAresizedinRCBSSmallbasedie.jpg

AzBuckfever
March 1, 2010, 04:18 PM
I may be mistaken, but I think Redding just came out with some comp dies for match rifles....May want to check that out as well. Guess it depends on what your intentions are.

http://www.redding-reloading.com/new-products/114-national-match-die-set

Redhat
March 1, 2010, 05:16 PM
If you have a Sierra reloading manual, they have very good specific information for loading for M1 and AR15s.

ranger335v
March 1, 2010, 06:02 PM
The Lee "Classic" Loader, the kit with hand dies, indeed neck size only and that's not a good choice for an auto loader.

So, other than getting a common FL die set, it really doesn't matter what you get, they all work fine. GI rifles have some generous chambers so a Small Base sizer is rarely, if ever, needed for them. And, in spite of some strong personal opinions, on average there are no internal differences between die brands.

Tim the student
March 1, 2010, 06:36 PM
I use RCBS full length dies with no issues in my Garands.

61chalk
March 1, 2010, 06:39 PM
Thanks guys...this helps alot,..SlamFire1....got 1. 2. 3. 4. understood...wonder if thats how you got your name SlamFire...ha...going to make sure primers are down slightly...thanks for the info on the gauges, thats some good info for me.

NuJudge
March 1, 2010, 08:25 PM
From your initial comments, I suspect you are going to reload brass remaining from ammo bought from CMP. If you are using HXP brass, it is the only .30-'06 brass I have ever found I needed to use a Small Base Full Length Sizing die on.

All the LC, FA, Remington, Winchester, Federal brass I've ever used were sized just fine by an ordinary Full Length sizing die.

Case gauges of both types are really nice to have, as noted above.

Concentrate on having your primers at least slightly below flush, and you should have no problems from them.

61chalk
March 1, 2010, 08:34 PM
Yes, I'll be using the HXP Greek from CMP...they do seem to expand alot, will be checking
out those small base dies...anybody using HXP Greek from CMP to reload?

Steve in PA
March 2, 2010, 01:40 AM
I have reloaded several thousand rounds for my Garand using regular RCBS dies. I used to use the regular FL dies, but have switched over to the X-die.

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