What the 30-30 is good for in Africa??


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saturno_v
March 1, 2010, 02:32 PM
I heard of sporadic cases of locals using them for wildlife defence (cats I assume)..any rifle is better than nothing....it beats a spear...:D

But what the good old 30 WCF is really good/adequate for in the dark continent??

Regards

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R.W.Dale
March 1, 2010, 02:37 PM
you know, you and Blackops should get together and compare notes sometime.

interlock
March 1, 2010, 02:56 PM
maybe knocking in tent stakes?

saturno_v
March 1, 2010, 02:59 PM
There is not any animal similar to our whitetail that can be hunted at relatively short range?

Marlin 45 carbine
March 1, 2010, 03:03 PM
never been to africa but I'll say that with the right slug and good placement just about any of the grass-eaters under 500lbs or so within 150yds or so.
even the mighty cape buffalo would fall from a good-placed heart shot or base of skull/neck juncture.

X-Rap
March 1, 2010, 03:04 PM
Maybe suicide?

I'm sure it would be fine for some of the smaller plains critters and if hard pressed we all know what it will do, I don't think I would haul one over there for a safari though.

Ed Harris
March 1, 2010, 03:08 PM
Should work on anything they use AKs for.

ArmedBear
March 1, 2010, 04:35 PM
There is not any animal similar to our whitetail that can be hunted at relatively short range?

The dik-dik is an animal similar in size to whitetails I've seen in some pictures. The .30-30 should work well, except that you need a rifle that is very flat-shooting. +/- 3" MPBR won't do, because you can easily miss it altogether.

LEVRLOVR
March 1, 2010, 05:38 PM
The DIK-DIK weighs under 20lbs or so I believe.

The 30-30 I would speculate would take just about all of it pretty routinely if you were up to the challenge.

Except for maybe the "Big Five" dangerous stuff of course.

And I might add, I would use it on at least one of those.

t george
March 1, 2010, 06:37 PM
gazell?

paintballdude902
March 1, 2010, 08:30 PM
pretty much anything except the big 5

Old Shooter
March 1, 2010, 09:01 PM
Maybe suicide?
Yeah, your gun bearer carries it and if you miss the charging elephant with your english double rifle he shoots you!

bad_aim_billy
March 1, 2010, 10:00 PM
I would say for Lion and Cape buffalo, you'd want 150 grain corelokt. For Elephant and Rhino, I'd step up to the 160 grain Leverevolution, should knock em' dead.

gunsandreligion
March 2, 2010, 12:22 AM
The DIK-DIK weighs under 20lbs or so I believe.That what the red ryder's for:D

ArmedBear
March 2, 2010, 06:07 AM
The DIK-DIK weighs under 20lbs or so I believe.


That's true.

So do some whitetails I see in pictures.:D

auschip
March 2, 2010, 10:29 AM
should knock em' dead.

Eventually.

shaggy430
March 2, 2010, 10:42 AM
I would say it would do the job on most plains game, but if I was to shell out that much $ to go to Africa I'd take something with a little more thump that Granddad's 30-30.

ArmedBear
March 2, 2010, 10:53 AM
Plains are flat and open. That's why they're plains.:)

The .30-30 isn't exactly the rifle of choice for antelope in Idaho. It wouldn't be the rifle of choice for antelope in Africa, either.

T.R.
March 2, 2010, 09:59 PM
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/rushmoreman/DSC01167.jpg

The time proven medium velocity 170 grain flat nose bullet does not bounce off large animals despite the so-called wisdom of critics. My bullets crashed through ribs, thick hide, and chest organs and kept on going to vanish into the hillside beyond. You can't possibly get better penetration than 100%.

Watch your distance and wait patiently for a broadside shot. 30-30 will do its part if you do yours.

Good hunting to you.

TR

saturno_v
March 2, 2010, 10:01 PM
T.R.

Impressive shot for sure!! I"m a big 30-30 fan (and owner of a Marlin 336)

Distance???

skiking
March 2, 2010, 10:42 PM
Watch your distance and wait patiently for a broadside shot. 30-30 will do its part if you do yours.

+1

If the 30-30 is good enough for an elk, I don't see why you couldn't use it on many animals in Africa. This one was 125 yds, can't say I got 100% penetration, but he didn't run much more than 50 yards.

That said, I wouldn't take my 30-30 on a hunt in Africa. If spending that much cash, I want to take a gun that has enough punch to take any of the plains game out past 300 yds if the shot were to present itself.

116812

The Bushmaster
March 2, 2010, 10:56 PM
I have a rather old Winchester .30 WCF (62 yrs old). I have taken Elk with it. But...Put your .30-30 back into the gun cabinet or safe and take at least the .30-06...

desidog
March 2, 2010, 11:10 PM
I filled both my doe tags in 04 with a 336 levergun- they lined up, and i shot....second one had the bullet in her further lung....that's what, 150-175% penetration?

H&Hhunter
March 2, 2010, 11:11 PM
What the 30-30 is good for in Africa??
I heard of sporadic cases of locals using them for wildlife defence (cats I assume)..any rifle is better than nothing....it beats a spear...

But what the good old 30 WCF is really good/adequate for in the dark continent??


In plains game areas especially in the bosfeldt ( thick bush country) the .30-30 is quite useful. There has been many a kudu on down to a diker smoked with a good old M-94 with a crusty old Boer farmer on the back end of the handle. I am sure there has even been the occasional Eland and buffalo killed with one.

If you were to read Wally Johnson's biography "The last Ivory Hunter" you see that he started his hunting career shooting lions on control for a local beef rancher with his .30-30 though he admits that he had no idea what he was doing at the time and that using a .30-30 on African lion is quite a fool hardy undertaking.

You guys have to understand that not all of African hunting includes dangerous game.

Arkel23
March 2, 2010, 11:18 PM
Nothing, but target practice.

H&Hhunter
March 2, 2010, 11:30 PM
TR,

What kind of animal is that? It doesn't look like an elk I'd say it's a red deer also known as Hirsch in Germany?

If it is an elk it's very small bull with very odd coloration.

chas08
March 3, 2010, 12:04 AM
Plains are flat and open. That's why they're plains.

The .30-30 isn't exactly the rifle of choice for antelope
Well neither is a bow and arrow, but they've all been taken with one, including the top five. I'd much rather have my old Ted Williams 100 than the !!!BEST!!! stick and string.

ArmedBear
March 3, 2010, 12:15 AM
That said, I wouldn't take my 30-30 on a hunt in Africa. If spending that much cash, I want to take a gun that has enough punch to take any of the plains game out past 300 yds if the shot were to present itself.

That was my point -- NOT that a .30-30 can't be used to hunt ____. Fill in the blank with whatever you want.

Since I don't hang out in Africa, I would be looking at limitations of time frame and geography.

T.R.
March 3, 2010, 08:27 AM
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/rushmoreman/DSC01160.jpg

The photo is a bronze medal red stag recently taken with my Winchester 94 Legasy model with angle-eject feature. Plain Winchester Power Point ammo worked quite well indeed.

Paco Kelly has a website named leverguns.com Each year he leads a group of hunters to South Africa where they hunt a variety of plains game with their lever action carbines.

Over the years, Sam Fadala has written a number of books and countless articles about big game hunting. He has taken many trophies with 30-30. Sam is a licensed PH in South Africa and a couple other African nations as well. Sam has toppled some very large animals with his Marlin in 45-70 using Garrett bullets.

In summary, lever action rifles and carbines are here to stay. Although this action is not for everyone, the fans number in the scores of thousands and continue to grow.

TR

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
March 3, 2010, 01:56 PM
TR, where was the red stag taken - Europe or N.Z.?

T.R.
March 4, 2010, 09:16 PM
Doc:

I hunted at Double D Ranch in southern Ohio not far from Kentucky. The country is steep and heavily wooded like Pennsylvania. Danny and his wife Nina operate an ethical hunting ranch. The red deer are born in the wild and not penned at all. The first day of my hunt, I didn't even see a red stag.

This stag was taken on second day of the hunt after a long stalk which went bad; a female (hind) spotted us from 150 yards away in heavy timber and led the rest of the herd across the ridge to safety. But my guide suggested I kneel behind a colossal hickory while he circled the ridge to spook the animals towards my position. His plan worked well and my 30-30 did the job quite nicely.

Not meaning to brag at all but I've taken many animals with 30-30 carbines including Dakota antelope, Nebraska whitetails, many mule deer and Wyoming elk. Those medium velocity soft tip bullets really tear up chest organs and produce far more damage than most guys realize.

30-30 is a KEEPER!!

ADVISE: Nope, 30-30 is NOT a 270 or 30-06. Watch your distance and wait for a broadside shot. 30-30 plain factory ammo will do the rest. Don't be ashamed to shoot twice or more. That's why you're hunting with a repeater after all.

Good hunting and stalking to you.

TR

MCgunner
March 4, 2010, 09:31 PM
The DIK-DIK weighs under 20lbs or so I believe.

Ah, Texas hill country whitetails. :D

blitzen
March 4, 2010, 09:47 PM
Dispite what the nae sayers think. The old thutty thutty with 170 gr bullets is a killer on par with anything else within it's range. Most of those who dought it have never used it. Of that I am sure.

X-Rap
March 4, 2010, 10:05 PM
Shoot I got nothing against the 30-30, I am a Minnesota native and grew up on the wonders of the fine round. I have taken a few Mulies and an Antelope with my contender and gave my 94 to my daughter to shoot her Mtn. Lion with. (she chose a 270??)
I'm fond of levers and have taken elk with a 99 in 308 and 45-70 GG.
It is not the round some try to claim it is and there are many I would pick before it for the land I hunt.

ArmedBear
March 4, 2010, 11:55 PM
sam has toppled some very large animals with his marlin in 45-70 using garrett bullets.


.30-30 =/= .45-70

MCgunner
March 5, 2010, 10:12 AM
Dispite what the nae sayers think. The old thutty thutty with 170 gr bullets is a killer on par with anything else within it's range. Most of those who dought it have never used it. Of that I am sure.

Mmm, okay, but personally, if I was facing a charging cape buffalo or elephant, a .505 Gibbs would feel too small. A .30-30 would be like shooting airsoft at a hog. :rolleyes: I mean, I've never hunted those animals, but I've seen "Tracks Across Africa" and those elephants resemble a mobile home with legs.:what:

Art Eatman
March 5, 2010, 11:38 AM
The thutty-thutty may be plenty good for whatever you are hunting. But somebody with you oughta have enough gun for whatever might be hunting you. If you're out there by your lonesome, odds are much improved for getting back to camp if you're totin' a .375.

ArmedBear
March 5, 2010, 11:40 AM
Obviously, if you're talking about hunting deer-sized game at <250 yards, or elk-sized game closer in, the .30-30 will work just as well in Africa as it does in Idaho. The ethnicity of the game has no known impact on terminal ballistics.

I mean, pheasant is from Mongolia, and yet I've brought home pheasants with shotguns made in Italy and Japan, loaded with American shells, and even some Italian ones.:D

The only reason I wouldn't take a .30-30 to Africa is that I'm not wealthy, nor a levergun badass. I'd be more than happy to take some game with whatever rifle seemed to be ideal for it. Maybe after enough trips to the place, I'd have more to prove to myself, but I'm nowhere near imagining that at this point.:)

X-Rap
March 5, 2010, 11:57 AM
Art up where I'm from its called a turdy turdy.

MCgunner
March 5, 2010, 12:58 PM
Art up where I'm from its called a turdy turdy.

You're bohemian from Abbot, Texas? :D Ya know, Third street in Freeport got renamed "Broadway" for that reason, or that's the story I heard.

My best friend aggie buddy is from West, north of Waco, spoke Czech until the age of about 5. I have gotten used to "trow it in the thrash can" after 40 years. :rolleyes:

StoneDog
March 17, 2010, 06:25 PM
Hi eveyone, I'm kinda new here but couldn't pass up this thread.

I went on a short hunt in South Africa last summer. The PH had a .25-06, my buddy had a 7x64 that I borrowed and another had a .303. No complaints from any of them and said they would take anything up to Eland (bigger than Elk) with any of those rifles. Where we were hunting we had Sprinbok, Red Hartbeest, Wildebeest, Eland, Kudu and a few others.

I'm not sure how far off a .303 is from a .30-30 but like the others state, if you can keep the range under 150yards and you aren't going after dangerous game you should be just fine.

BTW I took a Springbok at about 125 meters with the 7x64. I could only afford to take a shot at Springbok or Gemsbok (you take the shot, you pay, regardless). This was also my first hunt and my first kill - pretty exciting. I could have easily done the same thing with a .30-30.

http://webpages.charter.net/stonedog/pics/gt13.jpg

(Yeah I know he's not as impressive as a big elk...)

Cosmoline
March 17, 2010, 06:51 PM
Plenty of Afrikaner farmers and natives have used the old thuddy thuddy to dispatch threats to livestock over there--up to and including lions! Not that I'd suggest it for lion hunting, but the .30 WCF has served as fine medicine for a lot of big critters. The rounds expand very reliably, penetrate reasonably well and come in a very quick and fast-cycling package. This last factor may be the biggest in favor of the cartridge. The biggest weakness is the size of the bullet (low SD) and the limitations of penetration. But for the soft skin game, even the violent nasty ones like lions, it does a lot of damage.

In fact, here's an interesting old Google News account of a man in Idaho burning down an escaped lion with a .30-30:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1345&dat=19860721&id=S7cSAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1_kDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5380,1216114

NCsmitty
March 17, 2010, 07:24 PM
Welcome to THR, StoneDog.

Beautiful Springbok.


As others have mentioned, the 30-30 has been around a long time, and their bullets expand and penetrate reliably, without drama. You can count on the 30-30 to take out vital organs, if the shooter does their job of placement. It can do the job within reason in Africa or Alaska.



NCsmitty

P97
March 17, 2010, 08:39 PM
When I go on a hunting safari in Africa with my Mod 94 30-30, I think it will do the job on anything I want to shoot. Just to see that it does, I'll take along 5 helpers with .375's to make sure.

saturno_v
March 17, 2010, 08:43 PM
Plenty of Afrikaner farmers and natives have used the old thuddy thuddy to dispatch threats to livestock over there--up to and including lions! Not that I'd suggest it for lion hunting, but the .30 WCF has served as fine medicine for a lot of big critters. The rounds expand very reliably, penetrate reasonably well and come in a very quick and fast-cycling package. This last factor may be the biggest in favor of the cartridge. The biggest weakness is the size of the bullet (low SD) and the limitations of penetration. But for the soft skin game, even the violent nasty ones like lions, it does a lot of damage.

In fact, here's an interesting old Google News account of a man in Idaho burning down an escaped lion with a .30-30:


170-190 gr. bullets hvae a fairly high SD, especially against a soft skinned animals like you said.

And yes. a flat nosed 170 gr. bullet fired from a 30-30 at short distances is an hell of a slap....

The bit more powerful 303 British dispatched a lot of dangerous thin skinned African game.

GMFWoodchuck
March 18, 2010, 04:24 PM
Well if you can hunt lion with a bow, I sure don't see why a 30-30 won't do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnG88y89lfE

Or elephants for that matter...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7Qf-OXq36Y

Cosmoline
March 18, 2010, 04:33 PM
The bit more powerful 303 British dispatched a lot of dangerous thin skinned African game.

Between the two I'd have to give the edge to the .303 for sure, esp if shooting the old 215 softpoints. Those are practically crossbow bolts and will out-penetrate any .30-30 round.

HankB
March 18, 2010, 07:13 PM
African game animals are no more bulletproof than American game animals. I'd say a .30/30 with good ammo is fine for most of the game you're likely to see in the bush, including most antelope and gazelles . . . just as it works fine for deer in the Pennsylvania or Minnesota woods. It's a bit lighter than I'd prefer for kudu, gemsbok, zebra, wildebeest, and larger game, (where a .30/06 is a good choice), but it will do the job so long as you place your shot very carefully . . . which you ought to be doing anyway. (It works on elk, doesn't it?)

It would not be a good choice where ranges can be quite long (as on the Kafue Flats) and I really would rather not hunt anything thick-skinned or dangerous with it.

Blue Brick
March 18, 2010, 08:56 PM
The 44 Magnum worked ok...30WCF should be ok.


http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r15/Blue_Brick/AD003.jpg

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