MBC 158 LSWC in .357 mag


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RB98SS
March 1, 2010, 11:53 PM
I've been using MBC's 158gr SWC 18 BHN in my GP100 4" for a while now but can't seem to find a load that doesn't produce quite a bit of leading. I was wondering if anyone would share a load that has worked for them in this revolver that didn't lead too bad. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong but I've tried a number of powders and charges and I still get quite a bit of leading.

Thanks in advance.

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Quoheleth
March 2, 2010, 12:20 AM
What powder are you using?
What is your goal?

I've used 5.0gr Titegroup for a very nice plinking load.
Unique and 2400 get the velocity up a bit more and leading isn't bad. In fact, I scrubbed my 6" GP100 for the first time in a long time this weekend and it wasn't very bad at all. A little bit of lead near the forcing cone, and a few strokes of the Lewis Lead Remover had it clean as new.

I've used Unique and 2400 for medium-to-heavy loads and it has retained accuracy. At 200 yards, I was hitting pretty doggone close to clay pidgeons. Leading couldn't have been too bad, or that would not have been possible.

Q

zxcvbob
March 2, 2010, 12:27 AM
I haven't used that exact bullet but I've used some very similar. 8.0 grains of Herco, or 11.0 grains of AA#7. (these are pretty hot loads, you might want to back off and work up to them)

Mxracer239y
March 2, 2010, 12:32 AM
Are you using the 12 BHN 38 match, or the 18 BHN 357 action? I have found the 357 action to be a great bullet for my GP100 (also 4").

I do not have a load worked up for the 38 match yet (thats for next week), but I have found 12gr of AA#9 to be a good load for the 357 action. No leading, and not excessive recoil-wise, though it lets you know you are shooting a magnum.

-And now for the disclamer. Work up your own load. I am not qualified to give you load data. This works great for my gun, in my hands, with my brass.

Jesse Heywood
March 2, 2010, 01:14 AM
I bought some of the 357 Action a few days ago. I loaded 6.0 gr. of Unique and 5.0 gr. of W231. Shot in a 6" 686. Both were smoky (lube) and leaded the barrel, which cleaned up with a couple of passes of the LLR, followed with a brass tornado brush.

I tumbled some with Rooster Jacket, but haven't been back to the range to test them.

TonyAngel
March 2, 2010, 01:36 AM
I just got into loading .357. I ran through 200 rounds of the 158gr lswc over 14.2 gr of 2400. I didn't get any leading to speak of, although I did get a small amount of unburnt powder. I figure I'll have to play around with the crimp.

RB98SS
March 2, 2010, 10:51 AM
I edited my post, the bullets are the 18 BNH. I've used mostly slow burning powders, 2400, N110, H110, AA#9, Blue Dot, and I4227. Power pistol too at different velocities so I'm wondering if my barrel on my GP100 just isn't a good fit for theses bullets. That is why I asked for feedback from other GP100 users. I haven't slugged my barrel as I don't know where to get some soft lead to give it a try, but maybe that's my next option.

I also just ordered some bullets from Penn so I'll see how those work.

kludge
March 2, 2010, 11:06 AM
http://www.meisterbullets.com/slugyourbarrelsdetails.asp

Yes, slug your barrel and the chambers.

RB98SS
March 2, 2010, 11:29 AM
I just got into loading .357. I ran through 200 rounds of the 158gr lswc over 14.2 gr of 2400. I didn't get any leading to speak of,

Out of what?

Kludge, thanks for the link. They're out of .357 though.

Jesse Heywood
March 2, 2010, 11:54 AM
You can use fishing sinkers or black powder bullets. They just need to be pure lead.
http://www.surplusrifle.com/reloading/slug/index.asp

MichaelK
March 2, 2010, 12:46 PM
I cast Lyman's 358477 in Lyman alloy #2. I make that by adding a pound of lead-free tin solder to 19lbs of wheelweight lead. Sized to .358" and lubed with Thompson's Blue Angel, I can shoot this up to 1400fps in my Security Six with only light leading. My standard .357 load is 12.0 grains of Blue Dot. I load this same bullet in .38 special with 8.0 grains of Blue Dot.

It casts out at about 150-151 grains in #2 alloy, and I've even loaded it in 9mm.

TonyAngel
March 2, 2010, 02:22 PM
Oh, I'm shooting my loads out of a blackhawk. Are you getting leading down the length of the barrel or just near the forcing cone or the muzzle? If/when you slug the barrel, try to pay attention to whether you feel things tighten or loosen up at different points in the barrel. If your barrel's inside diameter is pretty consistent, it might just be a matter of getting your projectiles sized 1/1000 bigger or smaller.

RB98SS
March 2, 2010, 03:20 PM
Are you getting leading down the length of the barrel or just near the forcing cone or the muzzle? If/when you slug the barrel, try to pay attention to whether you feel things tighten or loosen up at different points in the barrel. If your barrel's inside diameter is pretty consistent, it might just be a matter of getting your projectiles sized 1/1000 bigger or smaller.

Down the length of the barrel. I'll plan on slugging the barrel when I get a chance. I just figured that the GP100's should have the same barrel diameter -- or at least close to one another.

Thanks to all for the help.

TonyAngel
March 2, 2010, 05:13 PM
I just figured that the GP100's should have the same barrel diameter -- or at least close to one another.

Yeah, you would think. If it's all the way down the length of the barrel, it's probably not because of a tight spot, I wouldn't think. What sort of loads are you running? Mild or pretty hot? And with what powders? The action series bullets are pretty hard and you have to hit them with a good amount of pressure to be sure that they obturate (is that the right word?) so that you get a good seal to prevent the hot gases from going up the sides of the projectile.

Without slugging the barrel and taking a reading with a micrometer, it's hard to tell what is up. If you really aren't equipped to slug the barrel, you could still try a couple of things. First, I know that the Ruger GP revolvers are very nice and Ruger is a good manufacturer of revolvers. Even if you slug the barrel, it MAY not tell you what you need to know.

Now, I'm going to go assuming. Assuming that you do have a "standard" diameter barrel and .358 is what you should be using, you could try a couple of things. Order some of the softer bullets from MBC and see what they do using the loads that you've been using. I haven't had any leading problems at all, but I don't load anything mild. I load all of my stuff on the hotter side.

The other thing that you could do is order a couple of sample packs in 1/1000 larger and 1/1000 smaller and see if either of those do it for you.

As a side note, I don't think that getting a bullet to obturate is a matter of velocity, but rather a matter of pressure. What I usually do to make sure that I have adequate pressure to avoid leading is to figure the velocity that I want to obtain and then use the fastest powder that I can accomplish it with without having to run maximum loads all of the time. Everything usually runs more smoothly and cleaner when you run powders in their upper pressure ranges.

Good luck.

RB98SS
March 2, 2010, 05:34 PM
Tony,

I posted the powders I've tried earlier in this thread. The loads I've tried are all mid to upper end with these powders. I currently have some near top end Bullseye loads that I haven't fired yet (trying a faster powder). The bullets are indeed .358. Like I said, I have some Penn bullets ordered and I'll give them a go and see if they like my gun better.

My objective is to shoot magnum loads.

Thanks for the feedback.

ljnowell
March 2, 2010, 06:58 PM
You could very likely have undersized cylinder throats. Ruger is notorius for this in the Single Action line of revolvers, perhaps you are experiencing this. I dont see why they couldnt mess it up on a double action revolver also.

TonyAngel
March 2, 2010, 08:04 PM
ljnowell has a point. That was the first thing I checked when I got my blackhawk. If your cylinder throats are too small, you bullet may be .358 going in, but not that size coming out. That easy enough to check though. See if one of your projectiles will pass through the cylinder throats.

RippinSVT
March 3, 2010, 01:46 AM
I can tell you with a 6-7gr charge of Unique that they leaded like HELL. Not the bullets fault, just not the best load. I now shoot my standard load of 5.0gr Titegroup, medium crimp, Winchester primer. Excellent load.

warnerwh
March 3, 2010, 02:37 AM
I user MBC .357 Action bullets using 6.2 grains of Unique. Very slight leading after 100 rounds minimum. This load is the most accurate load for this gun I have had.
Definitely check your cylinder throats and slug your barrel. Is the timing on your gun ok?

RippinSVT
March 3, 2010, 06:09 AM
Maybe I'll back the charge off a bit, I was at 6.5 or so IIRC. The gun is in good working order though. Also, I usually tumble-lube all lead bullets, and I didn't with that load. I can't remember what the throats measured, I thought I wrote it down somewhere...

RB98SS
March 3, 2010, 10:49 AM
Definitely check your cylinder throats and slug your barrel. Is the timing on your gun ok?

I don't think there's any issue with the timing although i'm not really sure how to determine that. It's only a couple years old and I've never have any other issues using it. It's accurate, but not after it leads up.

RB98SS
March 8, 2010, 11:28 PM
You could very likely have undersized cylinder throats. Ruger is notorius for this in the Single Action line of revolvers, perhaps you are experiencing this. I dont see why they couldnt mess it up on a double action revolver also.

I finally got around to taking another look at my GP100. I didn't slug the barrel as of yet but I did attempt to see how tight the bullet is in the cylinder throat. I was not able to push the bullet through by just forcing it by hand, no way. I did tap it through using a brass punch and a hammer. It was tight. I'm not sure how tight the bullet should be in the throat and was wondering if anyone thinks this is too tight. How easy/hard should it be to move a bullet through the throat of the cylinder?

Thanks.

ljnowell
March 9, 2010, 12:01 AM
That is too tight. You should be able to push them through by hand, with some resistance. They should not fall through. i use a plastic ink pen to push them through when I check one.

RB98SS
March 9, 2010, 09:49 PM
That is too tight. You should be able to push them through by hand, with some resistance. They should not fall through. i use a plastic ink pen to push them through when I check one.

ljnowell,

What are my options? Get the cylinder throats bored larger? Would a good gunsmith be able to do that? It just seems too extreme a thing to have to do with a newer revolver.

TonyAngel
March 10, 2010, 12:32 PM
I'm thinking that Ruger should help you out with that. If not, a gunsmith can cure that. Just make sure that you go to someone reputable.

ljnowell
March 10, 2010, 07:32 PM
ljnowell,

What are my options? Get the cylinder throats bored larger? Would a good gunsmith be able to do that? It just seems too extreme a thing to have to do with a newer revolver.
You really have two options, as far as what I have seen. I do not own a double action Ruger, only a SA. On the Ruger forums when someone gets one that is that way most send the cylinder off to http://www.cylindersmith.com/ . They do very good work.
The cost is 30 dollars plus 10 dollars for shipping.

You can order from brownells the stuff to do the job, when I looked into it it cost about 50-60 dollars to buy the stuff. Only you can know whats best for you, if you are a DIY-er you can own the tools permanantly, and I would guess that if you buy other guns in the same caliber you may find a use for the tools down the line. Otherwise, the offered service is a good deal, IMO.

I would definately call them though, and see what they say about DA revolvers, and what they do with them.

Tony: The problem with ruger is that when you do have them redo it it will come back with egg shaped throats, etc. Ruger builds a good quality rugged firearm, but the cylinder throats have long been an issue with them. They apparently are gang-reaming the cylinders and it leaves too much opportunity for problems. Most people that shoot jacketed commercial bought ammo never notice an issue, its just when you start handloading that these things crop up. I would bet other manufacturers have the same problems also, just fewer handloaders buying and loading lead for the product.

Husker_Fan
March 11, 2010, 12:30 PM
I want to say thanks to those who responded in this thread. I had wondered why I was having leading issues in my GP 100, with my reloads but no issues with my Smith K-frames.

This place is great.

RB98SS
March 11, 2010, 03:33 PM
I want to say thanks to those who responded in this thread. I had wondered why I was having leading issues in my GP 100, with my reloads but no issues with my Smith K-frames.



I'd hold off on the cylindersmith for now, I'm going to try some other bullets/sizes and will report back.

ljnowell
March 11, 2010, 04:11 PM
[QUOTE]I'd hold off on the cylindersmith for now, I'm going to try some other bullets/sizes and will report back. [/QUOTE

The important thing is how undersize they are. If they are so far undersized that they resize bullet beyond its ability to seal the bore, its going to need to be fixed. If its merely a small amount you may be able to use bullets sized .001 smaller and be fine. The benefit to having undersize throats fixed is that you can have a better availability of off the shelf bullets.

All this is for not though, if you dont get your throats measured properly. Your idea of hard to push through could be my idea of "with some resistance."

Husker_Fan
March 11, 2010, 04:15 PM
I'm not rushing out to have it worked on. I'm mostly loading jacketed bullets for that gun now, but I have a variety of lead ones to try.

GP100man
March 11, 2010, 10:59 PM
I run my 10.5 bhn boolits to 1250 fps , I think 18 bhn is just to hard for revolver applications .There`s always exceptions !!

These boolits work in 2 of my GPs that only get lead boolits!

It`s very important to start with a clean barrel , how are you DELEADING????


I`m `bout to settle on 8.0grs. of 800X.!! very clean burnin!

ljnowell
March 12, 2010, 01:14 AM
gp100man: I shoot the 18 bhn missouri bullet swc over 14.5 gr of 2400 and find it to be a clean shooting load. No appreciable leading, and consistently accurate. This is from a 686 4"

Jech
June 7, 2010, 05:37 AM
I put my first 50 handloaded rounds down range today through my 2.25" Ruger SP101. MBC .357 Action! LSWC bullets, CCI #550's and 3.7gr (starting) of Unique up to 6.7gr all produced very visible leading where the rifling starts in the barrel (forcing cone?) but not where further down the barrel or in the muzzle.

Shooting from 7 yards, I had some very inaccurate shots placing 12+ inches from my point of aim after ~20 of the softer loads. Boresnaking my barrel several times seemed to help but it was still very poor compared to the factory magnums I'm used to. My goal is to shoot hotter magnums, not the midrange target loads most seem to be after.

I can tell you with a 6-7gr charge of Unique that they leaded like HELL.
Mirred my thoughts and experience today exactly, was thinking about trying something hotter in the 7-8gr range in case I'm not obturating properly. Maybe I should try a more "magnum-oriented" powder like H110 or 2400? I've heard great stuff about both but have concerns about the short barrel and it not burning completely.

I also checked my cylinder throats....they measure in at .358" and I can push one of these bullets through them fairly easily with one of my cleaning push-rods as long as the cylinder is clean. The gun isn't even a year old with fewer than 900 rounds through it.

Fatelvis
June 7, 2010, 08:08 AM
RB, what are the actual diameter of your cast bullets? If they are .358", and they are that hard to push through the cylinder, you need to have Ruger or a Smith open up the throats. Another option is to tap the bullet through the throat, measure the diameter of the bullet, and size your remaining bullets to that diameter, and try shooting the newly sized bullets for accuracy, before messing with the gun's throats. Good luck.

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